Currently best to worst stamina DPS classes?

Dardas

I am thinking of making a stamina DPS. It will be my first real DPS build, I usually tank and I have made a healer before, but never a DPS.

Right now, my favorite classes I was thinking were stamina DPS are Nightblade and Templar. I know stam Sorc is pretty good, which I wouldn't mind trying. I already have a Warden which was a tank build, but I wouldn't mind turning it into a DPs build if its considered a strong stamina DPS.

I want something with easy rotations as a beginner for DPS.

What are your thoughts for the best suitable stamina DPS class for me? As well as your opinion from best to worst classes for stamina DPS.

John_Falstaff

In terms of raw damage, stamblades, stamdens and stamplars are more or less on par right now, sharing the top spot - you can find Liko's parses and analysis posted at various places, raid-buffed they're within 1k dps from one another.

Stamsorc and stamdk are not quite there compared to that trio, but they do have own benefits. I'd say stamsorc has good survivability, and what goes for stamDK is the easiest rotation - it's all just fairly circular application of skills and a few spammable casts in the middle. (One other peculiar thing I enjoy about stamDK - I main one - is that it has melee range of 8 meters instead of 5, it seems like a small thing but in practice I can stand out of great many AoEs and keep damaging with comfort, only Rearming Trap is an outlier.)

Protossyder

I wouldn't recommend to follow the I-am-a-beginner-so-I'll-take-an-easy-class path. Go for the nightblade. You even stated that it's one of your favorites.

It might have a more challenging rotation than other classes, but it definitely pays off. Orc is the best race btw.

Dardas

Protossyder wrote: »

I wouldn't recommend to follow the I-am-a-beginner-so-I'll-take-an-easy-class path. Go for the nightblade. You even stated that it's one of your favorites.

It might have a more challenging rotation than other classes, but it definitely pays off. Orc is the best race btw.

So the Nightblade has a more difficult rotation than the others?

I like how the NB is very good in PVP because I would like to do both PVE and PVP.

However, I do really like the Templar as well. Is the Stamplar a much easier rotation?

KhajiitFelix

1. Stamblade (top sustain and top damage)
2. Stamden (good sustain)
3. StamDK (good damage)
4. Stamplar (top utility)
5. Stamsorc (top AOE)

John_Falstaff

@Dardas, I think that stamplar rotation is way easier than stamblade's, it's practically like stamDK's, with the exception that you have to rebuff Restoring Focus every other rotation. But I didn't try on live so stamplar mains will say more.

On NB, you have to rebuff two skills and use a proc skill every 5th weave, plus - I think unlike with stamplar - you don't have place for all buffs on your front bar and have to use Incap off cooldown, so if you're running AY and want to have optimal rotation without losing AY stacks, you have to swap into back bar during front bar rotation when needed to rebuff Leeching and/or cast Incap (with swap-cancel to front bar, to get Incap hit buffed by front bar stats).

@KhajiitFelix , specifically for you, I'll post Liko's parses. ^^ Putting under spoiler to avoid making it spammy.

Stamblade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0-QTbvzCPI&t=2s

Stamden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQK-Y2_BSIM&t=62s

Stamplar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42f40QCN1JU&t=46s

1k dps difference.

KhajiitFelix

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Dardas, I think that stamplar rotation is way easier than stamblade's, it's practically like stamDK's, with the exception that you have to rebuff Restoring Focus every other rotation. But I didn't try on live so stamplar mains will say more.

On NB, you have to rebuff two skills and use a proc skill every 5th weave, plus - I think unlike with stamplar - you don't have place for all buffs on your front bar and have to use Incap off cooldown, so if you're running AY and want to have optimal rotation without losing AY stacks, you have to swap into back bar during front bar rotation when needed to rebuff Leeching and/or cast Incap (with swap-cancel to front bar, to get Incap hit buffed by front bar stats).

@KhajiitFelix , specifically for you, I'll post Liko's parses. ^^ Putting under spoiler to avoid making it spammy.

Stamblade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0-QTbvzCPI&t=2s

Stamden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQK-Y2_BSIM&t=62s

Stamplar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42f40QCN1JU&t=46s

1k dps difference.

Yep, @Dardas is probably Liko who can do 60k DPS blindfolded.

SaintSubwayy

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

1. Stamblade (top sustain and top damage)
2. Stamden (good sustain)
3. StamDK (good damage)
4. Stamplar (top utility)
5. Stamsorc (top AOE)

I personally would say stamDK is lowest...since it cant bring something unique to the fight, that others can.

1. Stamblade (highest DMG, good sustain)
2. Stamden (high DMG, good sustain)
3. Stamplar (good DMG, good sustain, can bring Potl -> take pressure from healers -> mbetter buff uptimes and support)
4. Stamsorc (OP aoe DPS in Trashfights, which make a big part in Trialtimes, ST DPS decent, sustain poorly)
5. Stamdk (okeyisch ST DPS, avg. AOE DPS, decent sustain)

furthermore, stamblade and stamden (maybe stamplar) can be easily played as Bow / bow build in content which is very meele unfreindly...aka. vAS+2, vCR +2/3 etc.

John_Falstaff

@KhajiitFelix , @Dardas is probably not Liko and has more chances to parse 60k on stamplar than on stamblade, but that's beside the point, we're talking about relative potential of all classes, right? Right.

Dardas

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Dardas, I think that stamplar rotation is way easier than stamblade's, it's practically like stamDK's, with the exception that you have to rebuff Restoring Focus every other rotation. But I didn't try on live so stamplar mains will say more.

On NB, you have to rebuff two skills and use a proc skill every 5th weave, plus - I think unlike with stamplar - you don't have place for all buffs on your front bar and have to use Incap off cooldown, so if you're running AY and want to have optimal rotation without losing AY stacks, you have to swap into back bar during front bar rotation when needed to rebuff Leeching and/or cast Incap (with swap-cancel to front bar, to get Incap hit buffed by front bar stats).

@KhajiitFelix , specifically for you, I'll post Liko's parses. ^^ Putting under spoiler to avoid making it spammy.

Stamblade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0-QTbvzCPI&t=2s

Stamden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQK-Y2_BSIM&t=62s

Stamplar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42f40QCN1JU&t=46s

1k dps difference.

I didn't realize how small a difference the DPS was per class. It looks like its more about experience that makes the DPS better.

If the margins are that small, and NB requires a more complicated rotation, I think I should start out on a Templar to learn. I already have a Templar I am leveling too.

John_Falstaff

@Dardas , if you already have a templar, then sure, why not give it a shot; you can always respec afterwards if you won't enjoy playing one in damage role. Generally, difference is greatly exaggerated by public perception, and templars have a lot to bring to the party (something I'm really missing on my stamDK). So take meta talks with a grain of salt, try things and see what you feel comfy with.

reprosal

StamDK is actually still pretty strong. It is just not the ‘meta’.

SoLooney

You're gonna see almost exclusively stamblades cause they have top dps with amazing sustain.

Stam wardens have good sustain and good damage and better cleave than the stamblade

Stamplars have decent damage, good cleave, and great utility giving out potl and minor sorcery along with it. Not to mention some rotations use shards so it helps group with sustain

Stam dks and stam sorcs are pretty much obsolete if groups are going for score. They can pull decent numbers but stam sorcs have low damage and horrible sustain but they have probably the best cleave of the stam classes.

Stam dks dont have great single target or cleave, it's not really good at any one thing. It has ok sustain

Yea. Most of the stam classes have better cleave than the stamblade but that's why theres still tornado and shrouded daggers. Problem solved

hedna123b14_ESO

The hierarchy at the very top is as follows:
1. Stamblade
2. Stamden (about 3-5k below stamblade)
3. Every other class (about 3-5k below stamden)

That being said if you dont play at the highest level this comparison qont hold true, because at a less competitive level player skill can push any class to the top dpdps in raids, so choose according to what you like.

Iskiab

Stamblades aren’t top dps, but people like regurgitating what others say and not do much research. Problem with that is they’re usually regurgitating what the game was like a year ago.

Stamplar is a solid choice if you want to do it. Stamblade’s good too. More important is to practice light attack weaving.

hedna123b14_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

Stamblades aren’t top dps, but people like regurgitating what others say and not do much research. Problem with that is they’re usually regurgitating what the game was like a year ago.

Stamplar is a solid choice if you want to do it. Stamblade’s good too. More important is to practice light attack weaving.

Lmao...if you dont think stamblade is top PvE dps then you dont play endgame

Ragnarock41

reprosal wrote: »

StamDK is actually still pretty strong. It is just not the ‘meta’.

Just another word for meh. Because how good or bad something performs is decided by comparing it to the rest. When I look at stamDk as a PvE DD, I see that it doesn't have anything that sets it apart. No utility whatsoever, decent damage but not the best, decent sustain but again not the best. (In fact, the only quality that set stamDK apart was the easy heavy attack rotation but still competitive damage, which is completely butchered by heavy attack nerfs.. I guess too much diversity for us huh.)

On top of all this I can't even proc my own utility passives because there is not a single earthen heart ability that fits a stamDD's build. It used to be molten armaments(ironic, a skill not even designed for stamDDs). Now not even that.

Iskiab

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Stamblades aren’t top dps, but people like regurgitating what others say and not do much research. Problem with that is they’re usually regurgitating what the game was like a year ago.

Stamplar is a solid choice if you want to do it. Stamblade’s good too. More important is to practice light attack weaving.

Lmao...if you dont think stamblade is top PvE dps then you dont play endgame

Okay, show me one parse or CMX screenshot of a stamblade breaking 70k. Boss only, not aoe. Prove me wrong.

John_Falstaff

@Iskiab , stamblades do break 70k in-raid, but so do stamdens and stamplars this patch.

And it would seem that in ESO's endgame, thinking is a discouraged practice.

hedna123b14_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Stamblades aren’t top dps, but people like regurgitating what others say and not do much research. Problem with that is they’re usually regurgitating what the game was like a year ago.

Stamplar is a solid choice if you want to do it. Stamblade’s good too. More important is to practice light attack weaving.

Lmao...if you dont think stamblade is top PvE dps then you dont play endgame

Okay, show me one parse or CMX screenshot of a stamblade breaking 70k. Boss only, not aoe. Prove me wrong.

We are pushing vSo for score at the moment so i only have these, but if youd like i can give you some AA, hRC and Mol ones too:)

https://imgur.com/a/vUzQgQ3

John_Falstaff

To offset that, stamplar parsing 70k, and that's not even in-raid. And they didn't need to luck out with 100% killer's blade crit for that. Generally, too many variables changing in in-raid parses and too few of those parses accumulated for anyone to get a statistically sound comparison.

royo

It's weird that people are denying that stamblades are the highest dps when full trial world records are being broken patch after patch with 8-9 stamblades. Stamplar is a solid 10k behind in single target in score groups. If you aren't running for score, then all 5 stam classes are viable for all the full trials.

John_Falstaff

royo wrote: »

It's weird that people are denying that stamblades are the highest dps when full trial world records are being broken patch after patch with 8-9 stamblades. Stamplar is a solid 10k behind in single target in score groups. If you aren't running for score, then all 5 stam classes are viable for all the full trials.

Mmhm, and if we march long enough with wooden rifles, spirits of ancestors will send us cargo containers from the skies. Surely those two things are directly related.

hedna123b14_ESO

John_Falstaff wrote: »

To offset that, stamplar parsing 70k, and that's not even in-raid. And they didn't need to luck out with 100% killer's blade crit for that. Generally, too many variables changing in in-raid parses and too few of those parses accumulated for anyone to get a statistically sound comparison.

So a few things.
1. That's a raid buffed parse.
2. That's a bad raid buffed parse. I was parsing higher 2 patches ago on my stamplar.
3. The stamblades in that group (if they are any good) were all probably hitting well over 80k. I know ours were qhen we tested on this same dummy.
4. Stamblades do not need crit luck to get 80k+ in raids...its not an outlier to get 80k+ on short fights that last under 1.5 min.
5. As a stamplar main who has played stamplar since 2015 I can tell you for sure that the class CAN NOT compete with stamdens and stamblades as of now...

John_Falstaff

@hedna123b14_ESO , of course it's a raid-buffed parse, because raid-buffed parses were requested and shared (not like anyone's hitting 70k self-buffed). As for boss parses, again, I don't see any statistics around, just impressions and not enough control over all that can vary in a parse. Short fights under 1.5 minute is one big outlier by definition, they'll be subject to any sneeze, like where rotations were when transitioning into execute, lucky crits during slayer and vulnerability uptimes... Nobody's even self parsing on 3mil since variations are so high, so who would care about data from 1.5min fights.

Mind, I'd really like to see some larger-scale testing with more control over it. So far most controlled thing I see is the 60k parses above, and I don't see what would make classes scale so differently that would turn 1k dps difference into 5k and more on 80k parse.

hedna123b14_ESO

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@hedna123b14_ESO , of course it's a raid-buffed parse, because raid-buffed parses were requested and shared (not like anyone's hitting 70k self-buffed). As for boss parses, again, I don't see any statistics around, just impressions and not enough control over all that can vary in a parse. Short fights under 1.5 minute is one big outlier by definition, they'll be subject to any sneeze, like where rotations were when transitioning into execute, lucky crits during slayer and vulnerability uptimes... Nobody's even self parsing on 3mil since variations are so high, so who would care about data from 1.5min fights.

Mind, I'd really like to see some larger-scale testing with more control over it. So far most controlled thing I see is the 60k parses above, and I don't see what would make classes scale so differently that would turn 1k dps difference into 5k and more on 80k parse.

Most fights in the game where you use stam (Outside of a select few) are fights shorter than 2 min. And in longer fights stamblades WOULD parse lower, but still 10k above stamplars...

royo

Here's how it goes in the score pushing community:

1. Patch notes come out. Everyone gets hype for the changes and say they're going to main stamplars or stamsorcs or magwardens. We all know this is a lie.

2. Dummy tests are performed by us and others showing the classes are pretty close. We all say we're going to main magsorcs and stamens. We all know this is a lie.

3. On the first week of the patch we go to somewhere like maw where we know all our numbers. On nightblade we hit 82k on zhaj and the fight is 77 seconds or whatever. We bring our crush class of the moment. We post non-competitive numbers. We laugh and report the findings in a score pushing discord.

4. A week later we give up and go back to nightblade for score runs.

5. On drunk late night pug bait runs we play our crush class and loudly complain.

hedna123b14_ESO

royo wrote: »

Here's how it goes in the score pushing community:

1. Patch notes come out. Everyone gets hype for the changes and say they're going to main stamplars or stamsorcs or magwardens. We all know this is a lie.

2. Dummy tests are performed by us and others showing the classes are pretty close. We all say we're going to main magsorcs and stamens. We all know this is a lie.

3. On the first week of the patch we go to somewhere like maw where we know all our numbers. On nightblade we hit 82k on zhaj and the fight is 77 seconds or whatever. We bring our crush class of the moment. We post non-competitive numbers. We laugh and report the findings in a score pushing discord.

4. A week later we give up and go back to nightblade for score runs.

5. On drunk late night pug bait runs we play our crush class and loudly complain.

Its like you know me...intimately...

John_Falstaff

So despite the dummy tests showing equality, someone among score runner tries 'crush class of the moment' for a week, finds that in a week he can't make it perform as well as their group of stamblades they play on the regular, and paints classes as still not equal. Mmmkay.

Sounds like the best example of why one should play the class they're good with. Same with the earlier "score runners use NBs = NBs outperform by huge margin" logical fallacy - nobody gives a thought to the notion that it's just simpler to stick with the class one's skilled with and 1k dps advantage it gives.

royo

The vast majority of score pushing dds are not nightblade mains. Most of us consider our main "best" class to be something else. However, it seems like you just don't want to believe in the collected work of a couple hundred people who use trial splits and fight times to figure out the most efficient method to do hard mode trials, and that's fine.

John_Falstaff

@royo , sorry, but you're not a couple of hundred people. You're one person who's trying to convince everyone he can speak for everyone and that the research is sound. And while it doesn't work like that, it's also fine, usual thing with gamers.