Nightblade Shadow Barrier passive duration

juhislihis19

IMO no need to change it, the free skill slot is absolutely priceless. Cloak + SA = certain crit, Major Resolve and Ward, Major Fracture, best spammable damage. If this should go anywhere, it's nerfing if rather than buffing. And this from someone who plays stamBlade at the moment.

And this is strictly a PVE thing, as in PVP the uptime is 100%.

For PVE tanking, always use heavy armor and the heavy armor skill if you can't reliably activate a Shadow skill. Problem solved.

Silver_Strider

juhislihis19 wrote: »

IMO no need to change it, the free skill slot is absolutely priceless. Cloak + SA = certain crit, Major Resolve and Ward, Major Fracture, best spammable damage. If this should go anywhere, it's nerfing if rather than buffing. And this from someone who plays stamBlade at the moment.

And this is strictly a PVE thing, as in PVP the uptime is 100%.

For PVE tanking, always use heavy armor and the heavy armor skill if you can't reliably activate a Shadow skill. Problem solved.

If you're using Cloak in PvE, outside of just avoiding mobs, you're doing something wrong and if you are avoiding mobs with it, the resistance passive is useless. Second, if the uptime is already 100%, what's the problem with a duration increase? You're getting nothing from a duration increase if you're already getting 100% from Shadow Barrier other than some extra padding that you clearly don't need. Finally, Stamina management for a NB Tank is hard enough without throwing in a 3k Stamina drain into the mix; not saying it can't be done but considering that most tanks build for Magic Regen, it would be easier to use a Shadow Ability in almost every sense.

Xvorg

brandonv516 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Free major resolve is one of the best things about the nightblade class. Just cast a shadow ability more often.

You’re comparing a free buff to classes that have to burn a skill slot. Nightblades have it WAY better than other classes.

How is it free? As a nb tank you HAVE to cast a shadow ability. As a warden you give the armor buff to the entire group. As a dk you get a damage shield. As a sorc you get major expedition and extra damage. As a nightblade you get what? A super weak refreshing path that heals for like 400 hp per second? A weak damage ability? A fear that will scatter mobs and make pulling stuff in as a tank harder? think about it from a tank perspective..

What about changing twisting path into a 20 secs major ward/resolve buff skill, but without major expedition, and changing shadow barrier into something different, like increasing the health recovery a 10%? Isn't that OK?

Or we can leave NB alone and it's fine as is. This is definitely one of those situations that we don't fix what isn't broken.

Of course, NB is perfect the way it is and should be the standard to balance other classes. I just described a typical class skill with MW and MR

Xvorg

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

If you are wearing all heavy pieces if should give you the buffs for around 20 seconds just like every other ability in the game that does that.
Seriously some of you guys seem to have such a warped definition of "free" when getting the buffs has a cost.

It's free in the sense that you don't use resources to mainly get the buff. It's a passive that procs while you mainly use skills for other things. I guess you'd consider Blood Magic a free heal on hitting frags, or not?

Well, if you want your stuff to behave like every other class, then I'd propose we move major resolve/ward from a passive to an active skill that costs an extra bar slot. And while you're so fixed on what others get, we make it 15 seconds like stam sorcs have it.

Ok, let's move Major Resolve/Ward to Siphoning Attacks, and change Shadow Barrier to increase healing received for each Shadow Skill. We already slot Siphoning anyways so no extra slot needed and we now get to be even more survivable since we get extra healing for having shadow abilities slotted on top of a longer lasting Resistance effect.

Seems like that would make NB even stronger than simply increasing the Resistance passive, wouldn't you say?

It should be moved into something different that is not attached to a used skill. It's like moving both buffs from spiked armor to chains in a DK. Too good to not use it, to cheesy in PvP

psychotic13

As already said, its an advantage to get these buffs passively and gaining an extra skill slot.

Royaji

If you are so insistent on how much better other classes are with a dedicated skill for Major Ward and Resolve why don't we swap Mirage to Major buffs and put Minors on Shadow Barier? The tears will be so sweet.

Silver_Strider

Xvorg wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

If you are wearing all heavy pieces if should give you the buffs for around 20 seconds just like every other ability in the game that does that.
Seriously some of you guys seem to have such a warped definition of "free" when getting the buffs has a cost.

It's free in the sense that you don't use resources to mainly get the buff. It's a passive that procs while you mainly use skills for other things. I guess you'd consider Blood Magic a free heal on hitting frags, or not?

Well, if you want your stuff to behave like every other class, then I'd propose we move major resolve/ward from a passive to an active skill that costs an extra bar slot. And while you're so fixed on what others get, we make it 15 seconds like stam sorcs have it.

Ok, let's move Major Resolve/Ward to Siphoning Attacks, and change Shadow Barrier to increase healing received for each Shadow Skill. We already slot Siphoning anyways so no extra slot needed and we now get to be even more survivable since we get extra healing for having shadow abilities slotted on top of a longer lasting Resistance effect.

Seems like that would make NB even stronger than simply increasing the Resistance passive, wouldn't you say?

It should be moved into something different that is not attached to a used skill. It's like moving both buffs from spiked armor to chains in a DK. Too good to not use it, to cheesy in PvP

And how is it any different then Templar getting it from Rune Focus? Why is it ok for Templar to get their Major Resistance + Resource tool in 1 skill but not NB? Even if ZOS was so inclined to move the major resistance buffs to a skill, then what becomes of the Shadow Barrier passive? It would most like just get switched with another Tank based effect so the end result becomes NB remain decently tanky via an alternative means while still having Major Resistances on the side.

I've yet to see a single valid argument as to why NB can't have a longer lasting Shadow Barrier passive. In case everyone has forgotten, NB survivability was nerfed in Murkmire when they lost Minor Vitality from Swallow Soul and the damage from Refreshing Path made it a lackluster option for DPS, outside of vCR, so even if the Shadow Barrier passive's duration was improved, it still wouldn't make NB anywhere near as powerful as it once was because it's lost some of its main survivability skills already. Everyone is acting as though this 2 second increase would somehow break NB when it would barely put a dent into them on any level of competitive play. It's already at 100% uptime in PvP so nothing changes there and in PvE, with how often you have to move or change targets, can you really say a Magblade isn't getting fairly decent uptimes already due to how often they need to recast Path anyways?

Iron_Blurr

Royaji wrote: »

If you are so insistent on how much better other classes are with a dedicated skill for Major Ward and Resolve why don't we swap Mirage to Major buffs and put Minors on Shadow Barier? The tears will be so sweet.

That would actually be a nice change for a nightblade tank. Honestly i dont think a lot of the people posting even tank on a Nightblade. half the posts are about dps builds which wont be changed at all if the duration only increases if you wear 7 pieces of heavy armor.

Iron_Blurr

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

If you are wearing all heavy pieces if should give you the buffs for around 20 seconds just like every other ability in the game that does that.
Seriously some of you guys seem to have such a warped definition of "free" when getting the buffs has a cost.

It's free in the sense that you don't use resources to mainly get the buff. It's a passive that procs while you mainly use skills for other things. I guess you'd consider Blood Magic a free heal on hitting frags, or not?

Well, if you want your stuff to behave like every other class, then I'd propose we move major resolve/ward from a passive to an active skill that costs an extra bar slot. And while you're so fixed on what others get, we make it 15 seconds like stam sorcs have it.

Ok, let's move Major Resolve/Ward to Siphoning Attacks, and change Shadow Barrier to increase healing received for each Shadow Skill. We already slot Siphoning anyways so no extra slot needed and we now get to be even more survivable since we get extra healing for having shadow abilities slotted on top of a longer lasting Resistance effect.

Seems like that would make NB even stronger than simply increasing the Resistance passive, wouldn't you say?

It should be moved into something different that is not attached to a used skill. It's like moving both buffs from spiked armor to chains in a DK. Too good to not use it, to cheesy in PvP

And how is it any different then Templar getting it from Rune Focus? Why is it ok for Templar to get their Major Resistance + Resource tool in 1 skill but not NB? Even if ZOS was so inclined to move the major resistance buffs to a skill, then what becomes of the Shadow Barrier passive? It would most like just get switched with another Tank based effect so the end result becomes NB remain decently tanky via an alternative means while still having Major Resistances on the side.

I've yet to see a single valid argument as to why NB can't have a longer lasting Shadow Barrier passive. In case everyone has forgotten, NB survivability was nerfed in Murkmire when they lost Minor Vitality from Swallow Soul and the damage from Refreshing Path made it a lackluster option for DPS, outside of vCR, so even if the Shadow Barrier passive's duration was improved, it still wouldn't make NB anywhere near as powerful as it once was because it's lost some of its main survivability skills already. Everyone is acting as though this 2 second increase would somehow break NB when it would barely put a dent into them on any level of competitive play. It's already at 100% uptime in PvP so nothing changes there and in PvE, with how often you have to move or change targets, can you really say a Magblade isn't getting fairly decent uptimes already due to how often they need to recast Path anyways?

I 100% agree with you. all these posters seem to be only focusing on pvp or dps nightblades which isnt the purpose of the post. If the duration buff only happens while wearing 7 heavy armor the only ones that would benefit from the change are nightblade tanks. and it would simply be a nice quality of life change. I mean it's only 4 seconds less when compared to dk but its just not fair that they get nice passives from using hardened ward while nightblades have to spam stupid refreshing path with 400hp ticks more often and get or spam the equivalent of green dragon blood just to maintain their armor buffs while other classes can use other abilities. I wouldn't mind the duration currently if at the very least the Ability Blur and morphs was moved to the shadow tree. At least then nightblade tanks would be keeping that buff up and get the major buffs out of it.

Iron_Blurr

What if the ability Blurr(and morphs) and Veiled Strike(and morphs) swapped skill trees? then at the very least nightblade tanks would get the armor buffs for casting a useful ability and people in this thread would stop crying about Veiled Strike giving armor buffs?

Alucardo

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Free major resolve is one of the best things about the nightblade class. Just cast a shadow ability more often.

You’re comparing a free buff to classes that have to burn a skill slot. Nightblades have it WAY better than other classes.

How is it free? As a nb tank you HAVE to cast a shadow ability. As a warden you give the armor buff to the entire group. As a dk you get a damage shield. As a sorc you get major expedition and extra damage. As a nightblade you get what? A super weak refreshing path that heals for like 400 hp per second? A weak damage ability? A fear that will scatter mobs and make pulling stuff in as a tank harder? think about it from a tank perspective..

So you're saying you only ever use shadow abilites for the passive proc? Got it. My experience is slightly different. I'm going to cast a shadow ability anyway in almost every situation. As a stamDD I use the spam. On magDD and healer I use a path anyway, alone for the lack of aoe alternative. On a tank maybe too + Dark Cloak. I don't need to mention the value of cloak in PvP.

So yep, you don't have to use a bar slot just/only for the major buff. Mind I didn't say that path isn't lackluster. Thing is you get it passively as part of your usual rotation. So no need to buff it. Especially when the warden group buff takes care of it.

Did you read the part where i said think about it FROM A TANK PERSPECTIVE? I dont care about the dps perspective because with the updated proposal nothing would change for a dps. Nothing would change in pvp. The only thing that would change is the buff would last 4 seconds longer if you are wearing all 7 pieces of heavy armor. Also your point about a rotation doesnt make sense from a tank perspective. Tanks dont have rotations..

You neither use Path nor Dark Cloak on your tank?

This. When I was grinding undaunted on my nb tank Dark Cloak was heavily used. Gives you minor protection, a sweet over time heal, minor protection, passively grants major resistances each time it's used, and boosts max health while slotted. And you want nightblades further buffed? No thank you.
And yes, it's free. Nb tanks cast Dark Cloak anyway, so you're getting the resistance buffs for nothing.

Dark cloak has a high mag cost. Also i dont think you get the major ward/resolve for FREE if you have to use an expensive ability just to get the buffs. You seriously think a tank should spam an expensive heal ability at full health just to maintain their armor buff? What's so wrong with it being brought in line with all the other sources of those buffs in the game? If you are wearing all heavy pieces if should give you the buffs for around 20 seconds just like every other ability in the game that does that.
Seriously some of you guys seem to have such a warped definition of "free" when getting the buffs has a cost.

It's free because while I'm giving up skills and passives (for having a skill slotted) on my bar just to get a resistance buff, you don't have to. No, you get it handed to you with minor protection and a decent HoT. If you're a DPS, then you get it handed to you with your main spammable.
Nightblade is probably the most well designed class out of all of them.

juhislihis19

Silver_Strider wrote: »

juhislihis19 wrote: »

IMO no need to change it, the free skill slot is absolutely priceless. Cloak + SA = certain crit, Major Resolve and Ward, Major Fracture, best spammable damage. If this should go anywhere, it's nerfing if rather than buffing. And this from someone who plays stamBlade at the moment.

And this is strictly a PVE thing, as in PVP the uptime is 100%.

For PVE tanking, always use heavy armor and the heavy armor skill if you can't reliably activate a Shadow skill. Problem solved.

If you're using Cloak in PvE, outside of just avoiding mobs, you're doing something wrong and if you are avoiding mobs with it, the resistance passive is useless. Second, if the uptime is already 100%, what's the problem with a duration increase? You're getting nothing from a duration increase if you're already getting 100% from Shadow Barrier other than some extra padding that you clearly don't need. Finally, Stamina management for a NB Tank is hard enough without throwing in a 3k Stamina drain into the mix; not saying it can't be done but considering that most tanks build for Magic Regen, it would be easier to use a Shadow Ability in almost every sense.

You do use HA's as your stamina sustain, yes? I've never had problems with stamina sustain as a tank. Infused Reduce Block glyphs on jewelry, and you can permablock (save tons of stamina). Between blocking, just heavy attack. Where's your stamina going?

My problem is this: StamBlades are overperforming in PVP, they absolutely don't need any kind of buffs at the moment. If you can think of giving them a buff strictly for PVE - sure, why not. But I am against any kind of buffing to the best class available when it will effect PVP as well. Not before the current state of StamDK's and StamSorcs are handled. IMO there are priorities to take care of.

Silver_Strider

juhislihis19 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

juhislihis19 wrote: »

IMO no need to change it, the free skill slot is absolutely priceless. Cloak + SA = certain crit, Major Resolve and Ward, Major Fracture, best spammable damage. If this should go anywhere, it's nerfing if rather than buffing. And this from someone who plays stamBlade at the moment.

And this is strictly a PVE thing, as in PVP the uptime is 100%.

For PVE tanking, always use heavy armor and the heavy armor skill if you can't reliably activate a Shadow skill. Problem solved.

If you're using Cloak in PvE, outside of just avoiding mobs, you're doing something wrong and if you are avoiding mobs with it, the resistance passive is useless. Second, if the uptime is already 100%, what's the problem with a duration increase? You're getting nothing from a duration increase if you're already getting 100% from Shadow Barrier other than some extra padding that you clearly don't need. Finally, Stamina management for a NB Tank is hard enough without throwing in a 3k Stamina drain into the mix; not saying it can't be done but considering that most tanks build for Magic Regen, it would be easier to use a Shadow Ability in almost every sense.

You do use HA's as your stamina sustain, yes? I've never had problems with stamina sustain as a tank. Infused Reduce Block glyphs on jewelry, and you can permablock (save tons of stamina). Between blocking, just heavy attack. Where's your stamina going?

My problem is this: StamBlades are overperforming in PVP, they absolutely don't need any kind of buffs at the moment. If you can think of giving them a buff strictly for PVE - sure, why not. But I am against any kind of buffing to the best class available when it will effect PVP as well. Not before the current state of StamDK's and StamSorcs are handled. IMO there are priorities to take care of.

THEY ALREADY HAVE 100% UPTIME IN PVP!!!!!! Between Fear, Cloak, Surprise attack and the occasional Shade, a Stamblade is already getting the most out of Shadow Barrier that the duration increase would do absolutely nothing they doesn't already have. What's a 2 second duration increase honestly offering a NB?

Chilly-McFreeze

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

Xvorg

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

If you are wearing all heavy pieces if should give you the buffs for around 20 seconds just like every other ability in the game that does that.
Seriously some of you guys seem to have such a warped definition of "free" when getting the buffs has a cost.

It's free in the sense that you don't use resources to mainly get the buff. It's a passive that procs while you mainly use skills for other things. I guess you'd consider Blood Magic a free heal on hitting frags, or not?

Well, if you want your stuff to behave like every other class, then I'd propose we move major resolve/ward from a passive to an active skill that costs an extra bar slot. And while you're so fixed on what others get, we make it 15 seconds like stam sorcs have it.

Ok, let's move Major Resolve/Ward to Siphoning Attacks, and change Shadow Barrier to increase healing received for each Shadow Skill. We already slot Siphoning anyways so no extra slot needed and we now get to be even more survivable since we get extra healing for having shadow abilities slotted on top of a longer lasting Resistance effect.

Seems like that would make NB even stronger than simply increasing the Resistance passive, wouldn't you say?

It should be moved into something different that is not attached to a used skill. It's like moving both buffs from spiked armor to chains in a DK. Too good to not use it, to cheesy in PvP

And how is it any different then Templar getting it from Rune Focus? Why is it ok for Templar to get their Major Resistance + Resource tool in 1 skill but not NB? Even if ZOS was so inclined to move the major resistance buffs to a skill, then what becomes of the Shadow Barrier passive? It would most like just get switched with another Tank based effect so the end result becomes NB remain decently tanky via an alternative means while still having Major Resistances on the side.

I've yet to see a single valid argument as to why NB can't have a longer lasting Shadow Barrier passive. In case everyone has forgotten, NB survivability was nerfed in Murkmire when they lost Minor Vitality from Swallow Soul and the damage from Refreshing Path made it a lackluster option for DPS, outside of vCR, so even if the Shadow Barrier passive's duration was improved, it still wouldn't make NB anywhere near as powerful as it once was because it's lost some of its main survivability skills already. Everyone is acting as though this 2 second increase would somehow break NB when it would barely put a dent into them on any level of competitive play. It's already at 100% uptime in PvP so nothing changes there and in PvE, with how often you have to move or change targets, can you really say a Magblade isn't getting fairly decent uptimes already due to how often they need to recast Path anyways?

I agree that Rune focus is too much, but it is the only skill with such capacity. The rest are not as strong as that one and are, in fact, a lost slot. I whish I had the chance to proc MW and MR on whip.

In my opinion Shadow barrier is not that bad.

In any case there's a skill that provides MW and MR and also magicka in the mages guild skill line, but at the cost of health and healing receive. I don't know if a NB tank could make use of it. Maybe we could ask ZoS for a change in that skill, since I feel that the decreased healing received is too much. The health cost is more than enough.

efster

I have no issues maintaining 100% uptime on ward/resolve without trying while PVE tanking. If you can't afford to cast Dark Cloak or path once every 15ish seconds as a PVE tank, you might need to increase your mag recovery.

Haven't run into issues maintaining it in PVP either between fear, concealed weapon, and path.

idk

Iskiab wrote: »

Free major resolve is one of the best things about the nightblade class. Just cast a shadow ability more often.

You’re comparing a free buff to classes that have to burn a skill slot. Nightblades have it WAY better than other classes.

Pretty much this since you are getting benefit from the casting of an actual skill. The passive is adding the buff for free.

OP is comparing a passive to an actual skill that has a primary purpose of delivering the buff. It is a poor comparison.

Even more odd is OP even compares it to Chudan. It is very costly to wear Chudan for this buff.

As for tanks, the duration is already extended for each piece of HA. It works fine.

Iron_Blurr

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

Royaji

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

If you are that desperate to have a skill specifically for Major Ward and Resolve you already have Immovable (utility wise it is better than spiked armour, btw) and Balance (the bread and butter skill for most tanks these days).

It's not "only 1 way".

Iron_Blurr

Maybe the duration wouldn't be a problem if nightblade had another way to gain major ward and resolve. But as it is now its either the passive shadow barrier or balance which debuffs healing and shield strength. I guess you could run chudan or use potions but at that point you're sacrificing so much for so little. The shadow barrier buff is pretty much "free" for a dps because its attached to skills they use all the time. But you have to go out of your way to cast some random shadow ability you dont need to be using just to gain your armor buffs on a tank. What if they did this change.. Move veiled strike to the assassin skill tree and move blur to the shadow tree. Then people wouldn't have to deal with nightblade dps getting major ward/resolve for free and nightblade tanks could actually cast something useful to keep their buff up?

Chilly-McFreeze

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

You got that wrong, I have 100% uptime because I use that skill on cooldown. Well, if you too want 100% uptime on your passive proc just use path or dark cloak every 17 seconds. Path isn't overwhelming but there's nothing wrong with dark cloak. Advising an ordinary stam sorc (we're still talking about PvE, right) to not use hurricane but asking for even more free handouts. You want your cake and eat it too, that's all.

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

. But you I have to go out of your my way to cast some random shadow ability you I dont need to be using just to gain your armor buffs on a tank.

Fixed that for you.

Arkangeloski

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

The Shadow Barrier passive duration is currently under powered when compared to other sources of Major Ward/Major Resolve in the game.
These are some notable sources of those buffs..
Dragon Knight: Hardened/Volatile Armor = 20 seconds.
Templar: Channeled/Restoring Focus = 20 seconds.
Sorcerer: Boundless Storm = 23 seconds.
Warden: Frost Cloak(and morphs) = 21 seconds
Mages Guild: Balance = 20 seconds(24 seconds with everlasting magic passive)
Heavy Armor Skills: Immovable and morphs = 23 seconds. (Unstoppable morph with 7 pieces of heavy armor worn = 31.5 seconds)
Monster set: Mighty Chudan = Permanent while set is worn.
Alchemy potions: Essence of armor = 36.6 seconds. Essence of spell protection = 36.6 seconds.

Now that we have some background info lets look at the Nightblade Shadow Barrier passive.
Shadow Barrier: Casting a Shadow ability grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, increasing Physical and Spell Resistance by 5280. This duration is increased by 25% for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.
Shadow Barrier + 7 pieces of heavy armor worn = 16.5 seconds.

The way the math works out currently the shadow barrier passive is the weakest source of Major Ward/Resolve in the game. The short duration is a large annoyance for nightblade tanks.
I propose that the nightblade passive be changed to something like this. "Shadow Barrier: Casting a Shadow ability grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward for (8 seconds), increasing physical and spell resistance by 5280. This duration is increased by 25% for each piece of Heavy armor equipped.
This minor change would make it so Nightblade tanks would gain Major Resolve/Ward for 22 seconds while wearing 7 pieces of heavy armor.
I feel that this would be a nice quality of life change for Nightblade tanks and bring their buffs more in-line with all other sources of the same buffs in the game.

Use 2 heavy pieces lol, the proc last 9 secs if you do so...

Iron_Blurr

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

You got that wrong, I have 100% uptime because I use that skill on cooldown. Well, if you too want 100% uptime on your passive proc just use path or dark cloak every 17 seconds. Path isn't overwhelming but there's nothing wrong with dark cloak. Advising an ordinary stam sorc (we're still talking about PvE, right) to not use hurricane but asking for even more free handouts. You want your cake and eat it too, that's all.

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

. But you I have to go out of your my way to cast some random shadow ability you I dont need to be using just to gain your armor buffs on a tank.

Fixed that for you.

Look since you dont seem to be getting the point let me show you an example of how they could make the passive better. Dk has the Burning Heart passive which does this:
Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is active.
Dk gets the equivalent of the sanctuary set 5 piece bonus built in as long as they have a draconic power ability active. A dk tank can just cast 1 green dragons blood every 23 seconds to get the burning heart passive to activate. The passive remains active for the duration of green dragon blood. Also green dragon blood already has built in minor vitality for 20 seconds when it is activated. A dk could also just use hardened armor for their armor buffs and they get 12 extra healing FOR FREE.
Why cant the nighblade passive be like that? For example, as long as you are standing in your refreshing path you gain major resolve and ward? Or maybe you gain those buffs for the duration of the path. Either way when you look at a dk tanks toolkit and compare the passives to nightblade, the problems with nightblade tank passives begin to show.
Why is it ok for dk to get free 12 healing plus the battle roar passive plus the helping hands passive plus extra damage blocked plus a 2 meter range increase etc. What do nighblade tanks get again? Nothing even close to those passives..
I mean even templar gets tons 50% more resistance plus resource restoration for casting their armor buffs. Wardens get minor protection and their armor buff applies to the whole group.

So I'll say it again, whats so wrong with nightblade getting major ward and resolve for 20ish seconds when wearing 7 pieces of heavy? Even with the extra 4 seconds it would only apply to tanks in 7 heavy and is still nowhere near enough to close the gap between nightblade tanks and dk tanks.

Chilly-McFreeze

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

You got that wrong, I have 100% uptime because I use that skill on cooldown. Well, if you too want 100% uptime on your passive proc just use path or dark cloak every 17 seconds. Path isn't overwhelming but there's nothing wrong with dark cloak. Advising an ordinary stam sorc (we're still talking about PvE, right) to not use hurricane but asking for even more free handouts. You want your cake and eat it too, that's all.

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

. But you I have to go out of your my way to cast some random shadow ability you I dont need to be using just to gain your armor buffs on a tank.

Fixed that for you.

Look since you dont seem to be getting the point let me show you an example of how they could make the passive better. Dk has the Burning Heart passive which does this:
Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is active.
Dk gets the equivalent of the sanctuary set 5 piece bonus built in as long as they have a draconic power ability active. A dk tank can just cast 1 green dragons blood every 23 seconds to get the burning heart passive to activate. The passive remains active for the duration of green dragon blood. Also green dragon blood already has built in minor vitality for 20 seconds when it is activated. A dk could also just use hardened armor for their armor buffs and they get 12 extra healing FOR FREE.
Why cant the nighblade passive be like that? For example, as long as you are standing in your refreshing path you gain major resolve and ward? Or maybe you gain those buffs for the duration of the path. Either way when you look at a dk tanks toolkit and compare the passives to nightblade, the problems with nightblade tank passives begin to show.
Why is it ok for dk to get free 12 healing plus the battle roar passive plus the helping hands passive plus extra damage blocked plus a 2 meter range increase etc. What do nighblade tanks get again? Nothing even close to those passives..
I mean even templar gets tons 50% more resistance plus resource restoration for casting their armor buffs. Wardens get minor protection and their armor buff applies to the whole group.

So I'll say it again, whats so wrong with nightblade getting major ward and resolve for 20ish seconds when wearing 7 pieces of heavy? Even with the extra 4 seconds it would only apply to tanks in 7 heavy and is still nowhere near enough to close the gap between nightblade tanks and dk tanks.

Oh what is it now? It doesn't even matter if it's 15, 17 or 21 seconds. NB tanks e.g. lack in comparisons because of things you mentioned, not because of 4 second major resolve. Sap Tanks didn't fell out of style because their Resolve buff isn't long enough. It doesn't make or break nightblade tanks.

It's just an useless buff you ask for to begin with. People would still prefer DKs over NBs as tanks even with 25s of the major buffs. You're asking for changes at the wrong spot and thus obstruct chances for real improvements over some QoL for someone who can't be bothered to keep path up. It's right there, you mentioned it by yourself. If path wouldn't suck you wouldn't even argue about the passive.

You're treating the symptom, not the cause.

Silver_Strider

efster wrote: »

I have no issues maintaining 100% uptime on ward/resolve without trying while PVE tanking. If you can't afford to cast Dark Cloak or path once every 15ish seconds as a PVE tank, you might need to increase your mag recovery.

Haven't run into issues maintaining it in PVP either between fear, concealed weapon, and path.

So what exactly is the harm in increasing the duration?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

You got that wrong, I have 100% uptime because I use that skill on cooldown. Well, if you too want 100% uptime on your passive proc just use path or dark cloak every 17 seconds. Path isn't overwhelming but there's nothing wrong with dark cloak. Advising an ordinary stam sorc (we're still talking about PvE, right) to not use hurricane but asking for even more free handouts. You want your cake and eat it too, that's all.

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

. But you I have to go out of your my way to cast some random shadow ability you I dont need to be using just to gain your armor buffs on a tank.

Fixed that for you.

Look since you dont seem to be getting the point let me show you an example of how they could make the passive better. Dk has the Burning Heart passive which does this:
Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is active.
Dk gets the equivalent of the sanctuary set 5 piece bonus built in as long as they have a draconic power ability active. A dk tank can just cast 1 green dragons blood every 23 seconds to get the burning heart passive to activate. The passive remains active for the duration of green dragon blood. Also green dragon blood already has built in minor vitality for 20 seconds when it is activated. A dk could also just use hardened armor for their armor buffs and they get 12 extra healing FOR FREE.
Why cant the nighblade passive be like that? For example, as long as you are standing in your refreshing path you gain major resolve and ward? Or maybe you gain those buffs for the duration of the path. Either way when you look at a dk tanks toolkit and compare the passives to nightblade, the problems with nightblade tank passives begin to show.
Why is it ok for dk to get free 12 healing plus the battle roar passive plus the helping hands passive plus extra damage blocked plus a 2 meter range increase etc. What do nighblade tanks get again? Nothing even close to those passives..
I mean even templar gets tons 50% more resistance plus resource restoration for casting their armor buffs. Wardens get minor protection and their armor buff applies to the whole group.

So I'll say it again, whats so wrong with nightblade getting major ward and resolve for 20ish seconds when wearing 7 pieces of heavy? Even with the extra 4 seconds it would only apply to tanks in 7 heavy and is still nowhere near enough to close the gap between nightblade tanks and dk tanks.

Oh what is it now? It doesn't even matter if it's 15, 17 or 21 seconds. NB tanks e.g. lack in comparisons because of things you mentioned, not because of 4 second major resolve. Sap Tanks didn't fell out of style because their Resolve buff isn't long enough. It doesn't make or break nightblade tanks.

It's just an useless buff you ask for to begin with. People would still prefer DKs over NBs as tanks even with 25s of the major buffs. You're asking for changes at the wrong spot and thus obstruct chances for real improvements over some QoL for someone who can't be bothered to keep path up. It's right there, you mentioned it by yourself. If path wouldn't suck you wouldn't even argue about the passive.

You're treating the symptom, not the cause.

A QoL improvement is still an improvement though and after nothing but nerfs for NB Tanks, with the sole exception being the inclusion of Dark Cloak, we're pretty much going for anything that has a feasible chance to improve, even if its something this minor but despite the fact this is a minor change, people are STILL saying no because they think this will somehow break NB DPS, which has always been the Achilles' Heel of NB Tanks.

Iron_Blurr

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

You got that wrong, I have 100% uptime because I use that skill on cooldown. Well, if you too want 100% uptime on your passive proc just use path or dark cloak every 17 seconds. Path isn't overwhelming but there's nothing wrong with dark cloak. Advising an ordinary stam sorc (we're still talking about PvE, right) to not use hurricane but asking for even more free handouts. You want your cake and eat it too, that's all.

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

. But you I have to go out of your my way to cast some random shadow ability you I dont need to be using just to gain your armor buffs on a tank.

Fixed that for you.

Look since you dont seem to be getting the point let me show you an example of how they could make the passive better. Dk has the Burning Heart passive which does this:
Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is active.
Dk gets the equivalent of the sanctuary set 5 piece bonus built in as long as they have a draconic power ability active. A dk tank can just cast 1 green dragons blood every 23 seconds to get the burning heart passive to activate. The passive remains active for the duration of green dragon blood. Also green dragon blood already has built in minor vitality for 20 seconds when it is activated. A dk could also just use hardened armor for their armor buffs and they get 12 extra healing FOR FREE.
Why cant the nighblade passive be like that? For example, as long as you are standing in your refreshing path you gain major resolve and ward? Or maybe you gain those buffs for the duration of the path. Either way when you look at a dk tanks toolkit and compare the passives to nightblade, the problems with nightblade tank passives begin to show.
Why is it ok for dk to get free 12 healing plus the battle roar passive plus the helping hands passive plus extra damage blocked plus a 2 meter range increase etc. What do nighblade tanks get again? Nothing even close to those passives..
I mean even templar gets tons 50% more resistance plus resource restoration for casting their armor buffs. Wardens get minor protection and their armor buff applies to the whole group.

So I'll say it again, whats so wrong with nightblade getting major ward and resolve for 20ish seconds when wearing 7 pieces of heavy? Even with the extra 4 seconds it would only apply to tanks in 7 heavy and is still nowhere near enough to close the gap between nightblade tanks and dk tanks.

Oh what is it now? It doesn't even matter if it's 15, 17 or 21 seconds. NB tanks e.g. lack in comparisons because of things you mentioned, not because of 4 second major resolve. Sap Tanks didn't fell out of style because their Resolve buff isn't long enough. It doesn't make or break nightblade tanks.

It's just an useless buff you ask for to begin with. People would still prefer DKs over NBs as tanks even with 25s of the major buffs. You're asking for changes at the wrong spot and thus obstruct chances for real improvements over some QoL for someone who can't be bothered to keep path up. It's right there, you mentioned it by yourself. If path wouldn't suck you wouldn't even argue about the passive.

You're treating the symptom, not the cause.

This is your logic..
1: You have the flu
2: There is no cure
3: So why bother taking medicine to reduce the pain?
4: The funds that were used to develop and produce Tylenol could have been better spent in research for a cure for the flu.

If you can't see how broken your logic is with this example there really is no helping you. It seems like you genuinely dont understand what quality of life means.

Iron_Blurr

Silver_Strider wrote: »

efster wrote: »

I have no issues maintaining 100% uptime on ward/resolve without trying while PVE tanking. If you can't afford to cast Dark Cloak or path once every 15ish seconds as a PVE tank, you might need to increase your mag recovery.

Haven't run into issues maintaining it in PVP either between fear, concealed weapon, and path.

So what exactly is the harm in increasing the duration?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

You got that wrong, I have 100% uptime because I use that skill on cooldown. Well, if you too want 100% uptime on your passive proc just use path or dark cloak every 17 seconds. Path isn't overwhelming but there's nothing wrong with dark cloak. Advising an ordinary stam sorc (we're still talking about PvE, right) to not use hurricane but asking for even more free handouts. You want your cake and eat it too, that's all.

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

. But you I have to go out of your my way to cast some random shadow ability you I dont need to be using just to gain your armor buffs on a tank.

Fixed that for you.

Look since you dont seem to be getting the point let me show you an example of how they could make the passive better. Dk has the Burning Heart passive which does this:
Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is active.
Dk gets the equivalent of the sanctuary set 5 piece bonus built in as long as they have a draconic power ability active. A dk tank can just cast 1 green dragons blood every 23 seconds to get the burning heart passive to activate. The passive remains active for the duration of green dragon blood. Also green dragon blood already has built in minor vitality for 20 seconds when it is activated. A dk could also just use hardened armor for their armor buffs and they get 12 extra healing FOR FREE.
Why cant the nighblade passive be like that? For example, as long as you are standing in your refreshing path you gain major resolve and ward? Or maybe you gain those buffs for the duration of the path. Either way when you look at a dk tanks toolkit and compare the passives to nightblade, the problems with nightblade tank passives begin to show.
Why is it ok for dk to get free 12 healing plus the battle roar passive plus the helping hands passive plus extra damage blocked plus a 2 meter range increase etc. What do nighblade tanks get again? Nothing even close to those passives..
I mean even templar gets tons 50% more resistance plus resource restoration for casting their armor buffs. Wardens get minor protection and their armor buff applies to the whole group.

So I'll say it again, whats so wrong with nightblade getting major ward and resolve for 20ish seconds when wearing 7 pieces of heavy? Even with the extra 4 seconds it would only apply to tanks in 7 heavy and is still nowhere near enough to close the gap between nightblade tanks and dk tanks.

Oh what is it now? It doesn't even matter if it's 15, 17 or 21 seconds. NB tanks e.g. lack in comparisons because of things you mentioned, not because of 4 second major resolve. Sap Tanks didn't fell out of style because their Resolve buff isn't long enough. It doesn't make or break nightblade tanks.

It's just an useless buff you ask for to begin with. People would still prefer DKs over NBs as tanks even with 25s of the major buffs. You're asking for changes at the wrong spot and thus obstruct chances for real improvements over some QoL for someone who can't be bothered to keep path up. It's right there, you mentioned it by yourself. If path wouldn't suck you wouldn't even argue about the passive.

You're treating the symptom, not the cause.

A QoL improvement is still an improvement though and after nothing but nerfs for NB Tanks, with the sole exception being the inclusion of Dark Cloak, we're pretty much going for anything that has a feasible chance to improve, even if its something this minor but despite the fact this is a minor change, people are STILL saying no because they think this will somehow break NB DPS, which has always been the Achilles' Heel of NB Tanks.

Exactly even this minor change I've suggested that would only buff the duration by 4 seconds while wearing 7 pieces of heavy armor is being shot down by people that probably dont even have a nightblade tank.

Alucardo

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

efster wrote: »

I have no issues maintaining 100% uptime on ward/resolve without trying while PVE tanking. If you can't afford to cast Dark Cloak or path once every 15ish seconds as a PVE tank, you might need to increase your mag recovery.

Haven't run into issues maintaining it in PVP either between fear, concealed weapon, and path.

So what exactly is the harm in increasing the duration?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

You got that wrong, I have 100% uptime because I use that skill on cooldown. Well, if you too want 100% uptime on your passive proc just use path or dark cloak every 17 seconds. Path isn't overwhelming but there's nothing wrong with dark cloak. Advising an ordinary stam sorc (we're still talking about PvE, right) to not use hurricane but asking for even more free handouts. You want your cake and eat it too, that's all.

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

. But you I have to go out of your my way to cast some random shadow ability you I dont need to be using just to gain your armor buffs on a tank.

Fixed that for you.

Look since you dont seem to be getting the point let me show you an example of how they could make the passive better. Dk has the Burning Heart passive which does this:
Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is active.
Dk gets the equivalent of the sanctuary set 5 piece bonus built in as long as they have a draconic power ability active. A dk tank can just cast 1 green dragons blood every 23 seconds to get the burning heart passive to activate. The passive remains active for the duration of green dragon blood. Also green dragon blood already has built in minor vitality for 20 seconds when it is activated. A dk could also just use hardened armor for their armor buffs and they get 12 extra healing FOR FREE.
Why cant the nighblade passive be like that? For example, as long as you are standing in your refreshing path you gain major resolve and ward? Or maybe you gain those buffs for the duration of the path. Either way when you look at a dk tanks toolkit and compare the passives to nightblade, the problems with nightblade tank passives begin to show.
Why is it ok for dk to get free 12 healing plus the battle roar passive plus the helping hands passive plus extra damage blocked plus a 2 meter range increase etc. What do nighblade tanks get again? Nothing even close to those passives..
I mean even templar gets tons 50% more resistance plus resource restoration for casting their armor buffs. Wardens get minor protection and their armor buff applies to the whole group.

So I'll say it again, whats so wrong with nightblade getting major ward and resolve for 20ish seconds when wearing 7 pieces of heavy? Even with the extra 4 seconds it would only apply to tanks in 7 heavy and is still nowhere near enough to close the gap between nightblade tanks and dk tanks.

Oh what is it now? It doesn't even matter if it's 15, 17 or 21 seconds. NB tanks e.g. lack in comparisons because of things you mentioned, not because of 4 second major resolve. Sap Tanks didn't fell out of style because their Resolve buff isn't long enough. It doesn't make or break nightblade tanks.

It's just an useless buff you ask for to begin with. People would still prefer DKs over NBs as tanks even with 25s of the major buffs. You're asking for changes at the wrong spot and thus obstruct chances for real improvements over some QoL for someone who can't be bothered to keep path up. It's right there, you mentioned it by yourself. If path wouldn't suck you wouldn't even argue about the passive.

You're treating the symptom, not the cause.

A QoL improvement is still an improvement though and after nothing but nerfs for NB Tanks, with the sole exception being the inclusion of Dark Cloak, we're pretty much going for anything that has a feasible chance to improve, even if its something this minor but despite the fact this is a minor change, people are STILL saying no because they think this will somehow break NB DPS, which has always been the Achilles' Heel of NB Tanks.

Exactly even this minor change I've suggested that would only buff the duration by 4 seconds while wearing 7 pieces of heavy armor is being shot down by people that probably dont even have a nightblade tank.

That's kind of silly. That's like me saying "I think biting jabs should be insta cast, apply major fracture, deal more damage, and give me major resistances every time I use it. Those who disagree probably don't even have a stamplar".
Being biased is not a valid argument.

Silver_Strider

Alucardo wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

efster wrote: »

I have no issues maintaining 100% uptime on ward/resolve without trying while PVE tanking. If you can't afford to cast Dark Cloak or path once every 15ish seconds as a PVE tank, you might need to increase your mag recovery.

Haven't run into issues maintaining it in PVP either between fear, concealed weapon, and path.

So what exactly is the harm in increasing the duration?

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

You got that wrong, I have 100% uptime because I use that skill on cooldown. Well, if you too want 100% uptime on your passive proc just use path or dark cloak every 17 seconds. Path isn't overwhelming but there's nothing wrong with dark cloak. Advising an ordinary stam sorc (we're still talking about PvE, right) to not use hurricane but asking for even more free handouts. You want your cake and eat it too, that's all.

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

. But you I have to go out of your my way to cast some random shadow ability you I dont need to be using just to gain your armor buffs on a tank.

Fixed that for you.

Look since you dont seem to be getting the point let me show you an example of how they could make the passive better. Dk has the Burning Heart passive which does this:
Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is active.
Dk gets the equivalent of the sanctuary set 5 piece bonus built in as long as they have a draconic power ability active. A dk tank can just cast 1 green dragons blood every 23 seconds to get the burning heart passive to activate. The passive remains active for the duration of green dragon blood. Also green dragon blood already has built in minor vitality for 20 seconds when it is activated. A dk could also just use hardened armor for their armor buffs and they get 12 extra healing FOR FREE.
Why cant the nighblade passive be like that? For example, as long as you are standing in your refreshing path you gain major resolve and ward? Or maybe you gain those buffs for the duration of the path. Either way when you look at a dk tanks toolkit and compare the passives to nightblade, the problems with nightblade tank passives begin to show.
Why is it ok for dk to get free 12 healing plus the battle roar passive plus the helping hands passive plus extra damage blocked plus a 2 meter range increase etc. What do nighblade tanks get again? Nothing even close to those passives..
I mean even templar gets tons 50% more resistance plus resource restoration for casting their armor buffs. Wardens get minor protection and their armor buff applies to the whole group.

So I'll say it again, whats so wrong with nightblade getting major ward and resolve for 20ish seconds when wearing 7 pieces of heavy? Even with the extra 4 seconds it would only apply to tanks in 7 heavy and is still nowhere near enough to close the gap between nightblade tanks and dk tanks.

Oh what is it now? It doesn't even matter if it's 15, 17 or 21 seconds. NB tanks e.g. lack in comparisons because of things you mentioned, not because of 4 second major resolve. Sap Tanks didn't fell out of style because their Resolve buff isn't long enough. It doesn't make or break nightblade tanks.

It's just an useless buff you ask for to begin with. People would still prefer DKs over NBs as tanks even with 25s of the major buffs. You're asking for changes at the wrong spot and thus obstruct chances for real improvements over some QoL for someone who can't be bothered to keep path up. It's right there, you mentioned it by yourself. If path wouldn't suck you wouldn't even argue about the passive.

You're treating the symptom, not the cause.

A QoL improvement is still an improvement though and after nothing but nerfs for NB Tanks, with the sole exception being the inclusion of Dark Cloak, we're pretty much going for anything that has a feasible chance to improve, even if its something this minor but despite the fact this is a minor change, people are STILL saying no because they think this will somehow break NB DPS, which has always been the Achilles' Heel of NB Tanks.

Exactly even this minor change I've suggested that would only buff the duration by 4 seconds while wearing 7 pieces of heavy armor is being shot down by people that probably dont even have a nightblade tank.

That's kind of silly. That's like me saying "I think biting jabs should be insta cast, apply major fracture, deal more damage, and give me major resistances every time I use it. Those who disagree probably don't even have a stamplar".
Being biased is not a valid argument.

Bias aside though, it's still true that on almost every thread that tries to improve NB Tanks, people come in and say no because of NB DPS. It's gets tiresome after the 100th time.

Chilly-McFreeze

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This won't lead anywhere. But while we're shamelessly asking for buffs: the major resolve/ward skill on my stam sorc lasts only 15 seconds. Please buff. 20 seconds sound about right, right? And increase damage cause it ticks for only 800 in no CP. Thx.

The other morph has a longer duration. If you want longer duration use that one. This isn't about "shamelessly asking for buffs" this is about the nightblade having only 1 way to get major resolve and ward. And it being a really weak way while every other class has an easier time getting the buffs.

You got that wrong, I have 100% uptime because I use that skill on cooldown. Well, if you too want 100% uptime on your passive proc just use path or dark cloak every 17 seconds. Path isn't overwhelming but there's nothing wrong with dark cloak. Advising an ordinary stam sorc (we're still talking about PvE, right) to not use hurricane but asking for even more free handouts. You want your cake and eat it too, that's all.

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

. But you I have to go out of your my way to cast some random shadow ability you I dont need to be using just to gain your armor buffs on a tank.

Fixed that for you.

Look since you dont seem to be getting the point let me show you an example of how they could make the passive better. Dk has the Burning Heart passive which does this:
Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is active.
Dk gets the equivalent of the sanctuary set 5 piece bonus built in as long as they have a draconic power ability active. A dk tank can just cast 1 green dragons blood every 23 seconds to get the burning heart passive to activate. The passive remains active for the duration of green dragon blood. Also green dragon blood already has built in minor vitality for 20 seconds when it is activated. A dk could also just use hardened armor for their armor buffs and they get 12 extra healing FOR FREE.
Why cant the nighblade passive be like that? For example, as long as you are standing in your refreshing path you gain major resolve and ward? Or maybe you gain those buffs for the duration of the path. Either way when you look at a dk tanks toolkit and compare the passives to nightblade, the problems with nightblade tank passives begin to show.
Why is it ok for dk to get free 12 healing plus the battle roar passive plus the helping hands passive plus extra damage blocked plus a 2 meter range increase etc. What do nighblade tanks get again? Nothing even close to those passives..
I mean even templar gets tons 50% more resistance plus resource restoration for casting their armor buffs. Wardens get minor protection and their armor buff applies to the whole group.

So I'll say it again, whats so wrong with nightblade getting major ward and resolve for 20ish seconds when wearing 7 pieces of heavy? Even with the extra 4 seconds it would only apply to tanks in 7 heavy and is still nowhere near enough to close the gap between nightblade tanks and dk tanks.

Oh what is it now? It doesn't even matter if it's 15, 17 or 21 seconds. NB tanks e.g. lack in comparisons because of things you mentioned, not because of 4 second major resolve. Sap Tanks didn't fell out of style because their Resolve buff isn't long enough. It doesn't make or break nightblade tanks.

It's just an useless buff you ask for to begin with. People would still prefer DKs over NBs as tanks even with 25s of the major buffs. You're asking for changes at the wrong spot and thus obstruct chances for real improvements over some QoL for someone who can't be bothered to keep path up. It's right there, you mentioned it by yourself. If path wouldn't suck you wouldn't even argue about the passive.

You're treating the symptom, not the cause.

This is your logic..
1: You have the flu
2: There is no cure
3: So why bother taking medicine to reduce the pain?
4: The funds that were used to develop and produce Tylenol could have been better spent in research for a cure for the flu.

If you can't see how broken your logic is with this example there really is no helping you. It seems like you genuinely dont understand what quality of life means.

Reading comprehension isn't your strongest trait, right? I try to get it through to you one more time, then I leave this senseless thread.

1. You have the flue
2. You are weak because of the flu
3. You are infectious because of the flu

4. Nobody wants to play with you because you are weak and infectious
5. You ask for medicin soley to not feel weak
6. You still have the flu, you still are infectious and still nobody wants to play with you

See where the problem lies? You could ask for real improvements but you don't. And we know ZOS track record about buffs and nerfs.

The funny thing is you don't even understand that you yourself ask ZOS to invest into "Tylenol".

If mR/mW gets prolonged, would your Refreshing Path be better? Would it make Dark Cloak better in your eyes? (Beside how good it actually is, this is a purely subcjetive question). Would people start to want NBs over DKs into trials as tanks?

It answer is: no. no. and again no. QoL may help your lazy ass to not recast path or cloak every 17 seconds (god forbid!) but every 21. But it still doesn't bring you on the top tank level.

Do you really think this passive's duration is the most dire short comming of NB tanking right now?

With that being said, I wish you good luck with your request and think about it when ZOS leaves NB tanking untouched for another year bc of an unnecessary alibi buff.