The snare&root meta

Iskiab

Ah, so this is mainly coming from rdps? Without snares rdps would be markedly worse in pvp, I don’t think people have thought through what they’re asking for.

Werewolves and mdps would be the main beneficiaries without snares.

CatchMeTrolling

Jeezye wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

bro one dodge roll and you're out of wall of elements. Ground based slows and roots aren't the issue - this is a clear l2p problem. Passive slows like blood craze, DK dots, as well as spammable roots, mainly cripple from what I can think of, are the issues that players can't deal with. Spamming aoe roots like blockade, talons etc. take heavy investments and aren't even that big of a deal

What’s your average group size? Because it definitely becomes an issue when you are outnumbered and there’s definitely not any heavy investment that goes into it.

In general I don’t see how anyone can say ground based roots and snares aren’t an issue The average player probably has 2 snares on their bar. And if they’re zerging (which is common) they can spam these roots and snares. You can literally dodge roll just to get rooted as soon as you come out if it.

ecru

Jeezye wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

bro one dodge roll and you're out of wall of elements. Ground based slows and roots aren't the issue - this is a clear l2p problem. Passive slows like blood craze, DK dots, as well as spammable roots, mainly cripple from what I can think of, are the issues that players can't deal with. Spamming aoe roots like blockade, talons etc. take heavy investments and aren't even that big of a deal

Dodge rolling out of it does not stop the blockade from being placed somewhere else and doesn't do anything if you're engaging someone in a small/narrow area, which is the case on almost every BG map. There's no legitimate way to avoid being permanently snared in situations like these. It also doesn't do anything if you're in a templar's ritual.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

bro one dodge roll and you're out of wall of elements. Ground based slows and roots aren't the issue - this is a clear l2p problem. Passive slows like blood craze, DK dots, as well as spammable roots, mainly cripple from what I can think of, are the issues that players can't deal with. Spamming aoe roots like blockade, talons etc. take heavy investments and aren't even that big of a deal

What’s your average group size? Because it definitely becomes an issue when you are outnumbered and there’s definitely not any heavy investment that goes into it.

In general I don’t see how anyone can say ground based roots and snares aren’t an issue The average player probably has 2 snares on their bar. And if they’re zerging (which is common) they can spam these roots and snares. You can literally dodge roll just to get rooted as soon as you come out if it.

I'm guessing they all play ranged and have never considered what would happen if they had to get in melee range of their opponents. Or they've all got frost blockade and ritual on their bar.

zyk

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

What’s your average group size? Because it definitely becomes an issue when you are outnumbered and there’s definitely not any heavy investment that goes into it.

That's fair though. Like if one is fighting 3 opponents solo, they can reasonably expect to have to deal with potentially 3x of all the bad things. Part of being successful outnumbered is overcoming disadvantages like that.

Whether snares should be be toned down or not, IMO to better enable fighting outnumbered should not be a consideration.

CatchMeTrolling

zyk wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

What’s your average group size? Because it definitely becomes an issue when you are outnumbered and there’s definitely not any heavy investment that goes into it.

That's fair though. Like if one is fighting 3 opponents solo, they can reasonably expect to have to deal with potentially 3x of all the bad things. Part of being successful outnumbered is overcoming disadvantages like that.

Whether snares should be be toned down or not, IMO to better enable fighting outnumbered should not be a consideration.

One part was about ground snares and roots ?? You replied talking about snares in general? Which are still strong in even fights ?

Sheuib

iCaliban wrote: »

Snares are an integral part of the game. Without them, many players simply would not die. I have zero issues with their current state.

I agree but I just want a reliable snare immunity for magicka. And, don’t say mist form because that has way to many drawbacks especially you can’t fight in mist form.

jcm2606

Sheuib wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Snares are an integral part of the game. Without them, many players simply would not die. I have zero issues with their current state.

I agree but I just want a reliable snare immunity for magicka. And, don’t say mist form because that has way to many drawbacks especially you can’t fight in mist form.

Not to mention can't heal, even the damage reduction doesn't make up for that, and you can't regen magicka, which is crippling when you consider the insane cost of it compared to what it actually does. It is more of a repositioning tool, you use it to get out of bad situations or large snares, rather than fighting through snares like Shuffle/FM/wings.

Ranger209

ecru wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

bro one dodge roll and you're out of wall of elements. Ground based slows and roots aren't the issue - this is a clear l2p problem. Passive slows like blood craze, DK dots, as well as spammable roots, mainly cripple from what I can think of, are the issues that players can't deal with. Spamming aoe roots like blockade, talons etc. take heavy investments and aren't even that big of a deal

Dodge rolling out of it does not stop the blockade from being placed somewhere else and doesn't do anything if you're engaging someone in a small/narrow area, which is the case on almost every BG map. There's no legitimate way to avoid being permanently snared in situations like these. It also doesn't do anything if you're in a templar's ritual.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

bro one dodge roll and you're out of wall of elements. Ground based slows and roots aren't the issue - this is a clear l2p problem. Passive slows like blood craze, DK dots, as well as spammable roots, mainly cripple from what I can think of, are the issues that players can't deal with. Spamming aoe roots like blockade, talons etc. take heavy investments and aren't even that big of a deal

What’s your average group size? Because it definitely becomes an issue when you are outnumbered and there’s definitely not any heavy investment that goes into it.

In general I don’t see how anyone can say ground based roots and snares aren’t an issue The average player probably has 2 snares on their bar. And if they’re zerging (which is common) they can spam these roots and snares. You can literally dodge roll just to get rooted as soon as you come out if it.

I'm guessing they all play ranged and have never considered what would happen if they had to get in melee range of their opponents. Or they've all got frost blockade and ritual on their bar.

Conversely though, once they get in melee range snares and roots are now their friend as they can keep the range character from getting out of melee range. I see that as a good battle, except stamina melee characters have immunity advantages over ranged magicka characters. if you gap close and start snare/rooting them they can't get back out of melee range very easily. Getting into melee range may be difficult, but so is getting out of melee range. Its a two way street.

katorga

Original Post is right that movement debuffs are on everything, including spammables, and has no opportunity cost required to apply them.

The nerf to Forward Momentum as wrong, and should be reverted back at 8 seconds, shuffle should 1 second per piece of medium, Mistform and Wings should be 6 seconds, or a 4 second immunity should apply when purging, or rolling out of a movement debuff. If no effort is required to apply movement debuffs, then the counter should be generous.

technohic

Is there an issue where immunity doesnt work on frost reach? Was having a few times where I just couldnt seem to get going with shuffle and frost reach was spammed on me in my recap.

ecru

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

bro one dodge roll and you're out of wall of elements. Ground based slows and roots aren't the issue - this is a clear l2p problem. Passive slows like blood craze, DK dots, as well as spammable roots, mainly cripple from what I can think of, are the issues that players can't deal with. Spamming aoe roots like blockade, talons etc. take heavy investments and aren't even that big of a deal

What’s your average group size? Because it definitely becomes an issue when you are outnumbered and there’s definitely not any heavy investment that goes into it.

In general I don’t see how anyone can say ground based roots and snares aren’t an issue The average player probably has 2 snares on their bar. And if they’re zerging (which is common) they can spam these roots and snares. You can literally dodge roll just to get rooted as soon as you come out if it.

Ranger209 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

bro one dodge roll and you're out of wall of elements. Ground based slows and roots aren't the issue - this is a clear l2p problem. Passive slows like blood craze, DK dots, as well as spammable roots, mainly cripple from what I can think of, are the issues that players can't deal with. Spamming aoe roots like blockade, talons etc. take heavy investments and aren't even that big of a deal

Dodge rolling out of it does not stop the blockade from being placed somewhere else and doesn't do anything if you're engaging someone in a small/narrow area, which is the case on almost every BG map. There's no legitimate way to avoid being permanently snared in situations like these. It also doesn't do anything if you're in a templar's ritual.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

bro one dodge roll and you're out of wall of elements. Ground based slows and roots aren't the issue - this is a clear l2p problem. Passive slows like blood craze, DK dots, as well as spammable roots, mainly cripple from what I can think of, are the issues that players can't deal with. Spamming aoe roots like blockade, talons etc. take heavy investments and aren't even that big of a deal

What’s your average group size? Because it definitely becomes an issue when you are outnumbered and there’s definitely not any heavy investment that goes into it.

In general I don’t see how anyone can say ground based roots and snares aren’t an issue The average player probably has 2 snares on their bar. And if they’re zerging (which is common) they can spam these roots and snares. You can literally dodge roll just to get rooted as soon as you come out if it.

I'm guessing they all play ranged and have never considered what would happen if they had to get in melee range of their opponents. Or they've all got frost blockade and ritual on their bar.

Conversely though, once they get in melee range snares and roots are now their friend as they can keep the range character from getting out of melee range. I see that as a good battle, except stamina melee characters have immunity advantages over ranged magicka characters. if you gap close and start snare/rooting them they can't get back out of melee range very easily. Getting into melee range may be difficult, but so is getting out of melee range. Its a two way street.

Sure, I understand this completely. My big issue with snares are largely ground aoe snares (ritual, frost blockade, permafrost), not single target snares, but there are a few outliers like jabs with it's 70% snare that also stand out as a bit ridiculous, or basically anything over like 30-40%. I'm perfectly fine with both melee and ranged dps having things like snares, roots, gap closers, or escapes like streak, provided they're single target, and have immunity timers longer than zero. We have a whole lot more than that though. We have huge ground aoes that permanently snare everyone inside of them, some eventually stunning or rooting--those are the problem, and they make BGs in particular a miserable experience for anyone who doesn't like slowly walking around the entire time they're engaged or trying to engage other players.

Sypherioth

Let me guess the ones that complain the most are the ones in heavy armor?

frostz417

Sypherioth wrote: »

Let me guess the ones that complain the most are the ones in heavy armor?

I have 6 PvP characters 3 mag and 3 stam. Playing mag in open world without mistform(magden) is like playing with a bag of bricks strapped to my back

My magplar I just gimp myself into being a vampire and take 20% more damage to fighters guild and 25% more damage to flame abilities just to get a mediocre escape tool that doesn’t even let me heal or regen magic.

Don’t even get me started on magblade lmao

All 3 are in light.

Stamsorc is debatably the only good class with a reliable snare removal since I use Forward momentum and even that is useless sometimes since there’s so many tools like cc poisons and gap closers that snare that all go through immunity. Which is also my only heavy armor class

Stamblade only has shuffle as well as my stamden.. both of which are in medium armor.

If anything heavy armor stam characters have the least amount of issues with snares since they primarily use forward momentum. But the 4 second immunity on it isn’t even close to long enough.
Shuffle is absolutely garbage

Sypherioth

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

Let me guess the ones that complain the most are the ones in heavy armor?

I have 6 PvP characters 3 mag and 3 stam. Playing mag in open world without mistform(magden) is like playing with a bag of bricks strapped to my back

My magplar I just gimp myself into being a vampire and take 20% more damage to fighters guild and 25% more damage to flame abilities just to get a mediocre escape tool that doesn’t even let me heal or regen magic.

Don’t even get me started on magblade lmao

All 3 are in light.

Stamsorc is debatably the only good class with a reliable snare removal since I use Forward momentum and even that is useless sometimes since there’s so many tools like cc poisons and gap closers that snare that all go through immunity. Which is also my only heavy armor class

Stamblade only has shuffle as well as my stamden.. both of which are in medium armor.

If anything heavy armor stam characters have the least amount of issues with snares since they primarily use forward momentum. But the 4 second immunity on it isn’t even close to long enough.
Shuffle is absolutely garbage

I don't have much issues with snares as long as I have resources and i don't play sorc. The things that do mostly kill me are skill combo's. Me not being aware enough of surrounding players and surrounding ground target aoes. And ofc lag.

But realy is a snare that good if you think about it? I mean someone rushes to you. Probably hits you with a skill that snares. Thats enough reason for any class/armor/weapon type to get out asap anyways. Especially when more then 2 players are inc because they will come for you.

Then I have 1 more thing. Don't expect magicka to be close range anymore if wanna do big dmg. U will be squishy thats why all mag are staff these days. Long range paired with shields etc is your defense. Keeping someone at distance is your defense. Wanna go face to face as magicka you will need the resists.

if you want to do big dmg and be face to face then medium armor is the only viable choice. You will need the dodge rolls to do big dmg and evade dmg.

frostz417

Sypherioth wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

Let me guess the ones that complain the most are the ones in heavy armor?

I have 6 PvP characters 3 mag and 3 stam. Playing mag in open world without mistform(magden) is like playing with a bag of bricks strapped to my back

My magplar I just gimp myself into being a vampire and take 20% more damage to fighters guild and 25% more damage to flame abilities just to get a mediocre escape tool that doesn’t even let me heal or regen magic.

Don’t even get me started on magblade lmao

All 3 are in light.

Stamsorc is debatably the only good class with a reliable snare removal since I use Forward momentum and even that is useless sometimes since there’s so many tools like cc poisons and gap closers that snare that all go through immunity. Which is also my only heavy armor class

Stamblade only has shuffle as well as my stamden.. both of which are in medium armor.

If anything heavy armor stam characters have the least amount of issues with snares since they primarily use forward momentum. But the 4 second immunity on it isn’t even close to long enough.
Shuffle is absolutely garbage

I don't have much issues with snares as long as I have resources and i don't play sorc. The things that do mostly kill me are skill combo's. Me not being aware enough of surrounding players and surrounding ground target aoes. And ofc lag.

But realy is a snare that good if you think about it? I mean someone rushes to you. Probably hits you with a skill that snares. Thats enough reason for any class/armor/weapon type to get out asap anyways. Especially when more then 2 players are inc because they will come for you.

Then I have 1 more thing. Don't expect magicka to be close range anymore if wanna do big dmg. U will be squishy thats why all mag are staff these days. Long range paired with shields etc is your defense. Keeping someone at distance is your defense. Wanna go face to face as magicka you will need the resists.

if you want to do big dmg and be face to face then medium armor is the only viable choice. You will need the dodge rolls to do big dmg and evade dmg.

Don’t expect to be mágica and close range? Tell that to all the Magplars, magdens and magDK’s. Also if you’re too squishy in ought armor it’s a fat L2P issue. My magplar and magden both have 30k resistances in light armor and do very good damage.
Literally only range mag classes are sorc and magblade. The other 3 need to be in melee range wtf? Magden may be an exception but honestly this argument just convinced me you don’t even PvP

Sypherioth

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

Let me guess the ones that complain the most are the ones in heavy armor?

I have 6 PvP characters 3 mag and 3 stam. Playing mag in open world without mistform(magden) is like playing with a bag of bricks strapped to my back

My magplar I just gimp myself into being a vampire and take 20% more damage to fighters guild and 25% more damage to flame abilities just to get a mediocre escape tool that doesn’t even let me heal or regen magic.

Don’t even get me started on magblade lmao

All 3 are in light.

Stamsorc is debatably the only good class with a reliable snare removal since I use Forward momentum and even that is useless sometimes since there’s so many tools like cc poisons and gap closers that snare that all go through immunity. Which is also my only heavy armor class

Stamblade only has shuffle as well as my stamden.. both of which are in medium armor.

If anything heavy armor stam characters have the least amount of issues with snares since they primarily use forward momentum. But the 4 second immunity on it isn’t even close to long enough.
Shuffle is absolutely garbage

I don't have much issues with snares as long as I have resources and i don't play sorc. The things that do mostly kill me are skill combo's. Me not being aware enough of surrounding players and surrounding ground target aoes. And ofc lag.

But realy is a snare that good if you think about it? I mean someone rushes to you. Probably hits you with a skill that snares. Thats enough reason for any class/armor/weapon type to get out asap anyways. Especially when more then 2 players are inc because they will come for you.

Then I have 1 more thing. Don't expect magicka to be close range anymore if wanna do big dmg. U will be squishy thats why all mag are staff these days. Long range paired with shields etc is your defense. Keeping someone at distance is your defense. Wanna go face to face as magicka you will need the resists.

if you want to do big dmg and be face to face then medium armor is the only viable choice. You will need the dodge rolls to do big dmg and evade dmg.

Don’t expect to be mágica and close range? Tell that to all the Magplars, magdens and magDK’s. Also if you’re too squishy in ought armor it’s a fat L2P issue. My magplar and magden both have 30k resistances in light armor and do very good damage.
Literally only range mag classes are sorc and magblade. The other 3 need to be in melee range wtf? Magden may be an exception but honestly this argument just convinced me you don’t even PvP

Read again. I said you need resist to be face to face as mag. And with your 30k resist you are sacrificing lot of dmg bt you are the one that doesnt seem to know...

If you think that a 500 spell dmg is not worthwhile then please do your research again.

frostz417

Sypherioth wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

Let me guess the ones that complain the most are the ones in heavy armor?

I have 6 PvP characters 3 mag and 3 stam. Playing mag in open world without mistform(magden) is like playing with a bag of bricks strapped to my back

My magplar I just gimp myself into being a vampire and take 20% more damage to fighters guild and 25% more damage to flame abilities just to get a mediocre escape tool that doesn’t even let me heal or regen magic.

Don’t even get me started on magblade lmao

All 3 are in light.

Stamsorc is debatably the only good class with a reliable snare removal since I use Forward momentum and even that is useless sometimes since there’s so many tools like cc poisons and gap closers that snare that all go through immunity. Which is also my only heavy armor class

Stamblade only has shuffle as well as my stamden.. both of which are in medium armor.

If anything heavy armor stam characters have the least amount of issues with snares since they primarily use forward momentum. But the 4 second immunity on it isn’t even close to long enough.
Shuffle is absolutely garbage

I don't have much issues with snares as long as I have resources and i don't play sorc. The things that do mostly kill me are skill combo's. Me not being aware enough of surrounding players and surrounding ground target aoes. And ofc lag.

But realy is a snare that good if you think about it? I mean someone rushes to you. Probably hits you with a skill that snares. Thats enough reason for any class/armor/weapon type to get out asap anyways. Especially when more then 2 players are inc because they will come for you.

Then I have 1 more thing. Don't expect magicka to be close range anymore if wanna do big dmg. U will be squishy thats why all mag are staff these days. Long range paired with shields etc is your defense. Keeping someone at distance is your defense. Wanna go face to face as magicka you will need the resists.

if you want to do big dmg and be face to face then medium armor is the only viable choice. You will need the dodge rolls to do big dmg and evade dmg.

Don’t expect to be mágica and close range? Tell that to all the Magplars, magdens and magDK’s. Also if you’re too squishy in ought armor it’s a fat L2P issue. My magplar and magden both have 30k resistances in light armor and do very good damage.
Literally only range mag classes are sorc and magblade. The other 3 need to be in melee range wtf? Magden may be an exception but honestly this argument just convinced me you don’t even PvP

Read again. I said you need resist to be face to face as mag. And with your 30k resist you are sacrificing lot of dmg bt you are the one that doesnt seem to know...

If you think that a 500 spell dmg is not worthwhile then please do your research again.

I run bright throat and necro on a magden with 2 protective&bloodspawn. I don’t think I’m losing much damage sacrificing 2k mag. Instead of 52k mag I now have 50k womp
Womp my sub tooltip dropped a whopping 200.
My magplar does steadfast and bright throat, and does tremendous damage. Not much damage being sacrificed honestly. If you think I’m sacrificing a bunch of damage and stressing... once again it doesn’t seem like you know much about theory crafting from what these responses tell me of how you’re losing a lot of dmg.

Sypherioth

Iskiab wrote: »

Ah, so this is mainly coming from rdps? Without snares rdps would be markedly worse in pvp, I don’t think people have thought through what they’re asking for.

Werewolves and mdps would be the main beneficiaries without snares.

Ye and as WW I die just as easy as with my NB even when i don't feel the snares at all

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

Let me guess the ones that complain the most are the ones in heavy armor?

I have 6 PvP characters 3 mag and 3 stam. Playing mag in open world without mistform(magden) is like playing with a bag of bricks strapped to my back

My magplar I just gimp myself into being a vampire and take 20% more damage to fighters guild and 25% more damage to flame abilities just to get a mediocre escape tool that doesn’t even let me heal or regen magic.

Don’t even get me started on magblade lmao

All 3 are in light.

Stamsorc is debatably the only good class with a reliable snare removal since I use Forward momentum and even that is useless sometimes since there’s so many tools like cc poisons and gap closers that snare that all go through immunity. Which is also my only heavy armor class

Stamblade only has shuffle as well as my stamden.. both of which are in medium armor.

If anything heavy armor stam characters have the least amount of issues with snares since they primarily use forward momentum. But the 4 second immunity on it isn’t even close to long enough.
Shuffle is absolutely garbage

I don't have much issues with snares as long as I have resources and i don't play sorc. The things that do mostly kill me are skill combo's. Me not being aware enough of surrounding players and surrounding ground target aoes. And ofc lag.

But realy is a snare that good if you think about it? I mean someone rushes to you. Probably hits you with a skill that snares. Thats enough reason for any class/armor/weapon type to get out asap anyways. Especially when more then 2 players are inc because they will come for you.

Then I have 1 more thing. Don't expect magicka to be close range anymore if wanna do big dmg. U will be squishy thats why all mag are staff these days. Long range paired with shields etc is your defense. Keeping someone at distance is your defense. Wanna go face to face as magicka you will need the resists.

if you want to do big dmg and be face to face then medium armor is the only viable choice. You will need the dodge rolls to do big dmg and evade dmg.

Don’t expect to be mágica and close range? Tell that to all the Magplars, magdens and magDK’s. Also if you’re too squishy in ought armor it’s a fat L2P issue. My magplar and magden both have 30k resistances in light armor and do very good damage.
Literally only range mag classes are sorc and magblade. The other 3 need to be in melee range wtf? Magden may be an exception but honestly this argument just convinced me you don’t even PvP

Read again. I said you need resist to be face to face as mag. And with your 30k resist you are sacrificing lot of dmg bt you are the one that doesnt seem to know...

If you think that a 500 spell dmg is not worthwhile then please do your research again.

I run bright throat and necro on a magden with 2 protective&bloodspawn. I don’t think I’m losing much damage sacrificing 2k mag. Instead of 52k mag I now have 50k womp
Womp my sub tooltip dropped a whopping 200.
My magplar does steadfast and bright throat, and does tremendous damage. Not much damage being sacrificed honestly. If you think I’m sacrificing a bunch of damage and stressing... once again it doesn’t seem like you know much about theory crafting from what these responses tell me of how you’re losing a lot of dmg.

Factor in crit chance to. Factor in crit dmg to. Maybe factor in some armor penetration. And maybe also factor in some other dmg multipliers and all that. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

No you have the OP healer class which should be nerfed a bit if anything should be nerfed at all. Ofcourse magicka helps you alot on both dmg and heals. I know why you build that way. Don't worry.

Also what is the crit chance? The crit dmg. How high is your hp? What is your impen? What armor you wear?

Then we talk further about how you sacrifice dmg etc.

frostz417

Sypherioth wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Ah, so this is mainly coming from rdps? Without snares rdps would be markedly worse in pvp, I don’t think people have thought through what they’re asking for.

Werewolves and mdps would be the main beneficiaries without snares.

Ye and as WW I die just as easy as with my NB even when i don't feel the snares at all

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sypherioth wrote: »

Let me guess the ones that complain the most are the ones in heavy armor?

I have 6 PvP characters 3 mag and 3 stam. Playing mag in open world without mistform(magden) is like playing with a bag of bricks strapped to my back

My magplar I just gimp myself into being a vampire and take 20% more damage to fighters guild and 25% more damage to flame abilities just to get a mediocre escape tool that doesn’t even let me heal or regen magic.

Don’t even get me started on magblade lmao

All 3 are in light.

Stamsorc is debatably the only good class with a reliable snare removal since I use Forward momentum and even that is useless sometimes since there’s so many tools like cc poisons and gap closers that snare that all go through immunity. Which is also my only heavy armor class

Stamblade only has shuffle as well as my stamden.. both of which are in medium armor.

If anything heavy armor stam characters have the least amount of issues with snares since they primarily use forward momentum. But the 4 second immunity on it isn’t even close to long enough.
Shuffle is absolutely garbage

I don't have much issues with snares as long as I have resources and i don't play sorc. The things that do mostly kill me are skill combo's. Me not being aware enough of surrounding players and surrounding ground target aoes. And ofc lag.

But realy is a snare that good if you think about it? I mean someone rushes to you. Probably hits you with a skill that snares. Thats enough reason for any class/armor/weapon type to get out asap anyways. Especially when more then 2 players are inc because they will come for you.

Then I have 1 more thing. Don't expect magicka to be close range anymore if wanna do big dmg. U will be squishy thats why all mag are staff these days. Long range paired with shields etc is your defense. Keeping someone at distance is your defense. Wanna go face to face as magicka you will need the resists.

if you want to do big dmg and be face to face then medium armor is the only viable choice. You will need the dodge rolls to do big dmg and evade dmg.

Don’t expect to be mágica and close range? Tell that to all the Magplars, magdens and magDK’s. Also if you’re too squishy in ought armor it’s a fat L2P issue. My magplar and magden both have 30k resistances in light armor and do very good damage.
Literally only range mag classes are sorc and magblade. The other 3 need to be in melee range wtf? Magden may be an exception but honestly this argument just convinced me you don’t even PvP

Read again. I said you need resist to be face to face as mag. And with your 30k resist you are sacrificing lot of dmg bt you are the one that doesnt seem to know...

If you think that a 500 spell dmg is not worthwhile then please do your research again.

I run bright throat and necro on a magden with 2 protective&bloodspawn. I don’t think I’m losing much damage sacrificing 2k mag. Instead of 52k mag I now have 50k womp
Womp my sub tooltip dropped a whopping 200.
My magplar does steadfast and bright throat, and does tremendous damage. Not much damage being sacrificed honestly. If you think I’m sacrificing a bunch of damage and stressing... once again it doesn’t seem like you know much about theory crafting from what these responses tell me of how you’re losing a lot of dmg.

Factor in crit chance to. Factor in crit dmg to. Maybe factor in some armor penetration. And maybe also factor in some other dmg multipliers and all that. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

No you have the OP healer class which should be nerfed a bit if anything should be nerfed at all. Ofcourse magicka helps you alot on both dmg and heals. I know why you build that way. Don't worry.

Also what is the crit chance? The crit dmg. How high is your hp? What is your impen? What armor you wear?

Then we talk further about how you sacrifice dmg etc.

What’s my crit chance&dmg. Crit is about 40% on each since I don’t build into criti I just slit mage light. I ALWAYS run 7 impen on all PvP toons. My hp comes from running all tri Stat glyphs. So on the magplar? About 26k health front bar and 30k back bar thanks to steadfast and skoria.
Magden is about 25k without minor toughness and 26.5k with toughness.
Trust me. There’s not much damage being sacrificed. Lol

Also I’m going to assume you’re calling the magplar the OP healer class that’ needs a nerf? They’ve been nerfed for 2 consistent years patch after patch.. only until wolf hunter did they become anything decent so no thanks.

Haojin

Liww

immunity's are too short imo and malfunction quite often, thats about it.

frostz417

Liww wrote: »

immunity's are too short imo and malfunction quite often, thats about it.

I’ll be fine with the current state of snares&roots if there’s an immunity granted after being snared or rooted... at least 4 seconds

Aurielle

How I feel when I see a notorious frost warden on one of the other teams when I am queued on my own frost warden:

I DON’T GET TO MOVE COS OF Y’ALL
Y’ALL NOT GONNA MOVE COS OF ME

https://youtu.be/110l4ynyhII

Ragnarock41

Sypherioth wrote: »

Let me guess the ones that complain the most are the ones in heavy armor?

Actually I'm in medium armor. I still hate snares but I have bigger things to worry about, like all those petsorcs or magicka wardens that have the perfect kit to ruin my day. They also happen to have a lot of roots and undodgeable abilities.

technohic

Sypherioth wrote: »

Let me guess the ones that complain the most are the ones in heavy armor?

I struggle more in medium as it seems more roots and snares ignore shuffle than forward momentum.

Toc de Malsvi

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Their is a 2s root cooldown after dodging out of a root... but that’s so short it might as well not exist

Essentially this is the same issue with the root removal tools. Snares in combination with roots means you dodge out of the root only to waddle away, damage taken means you have to block/heal/dodge, then you are rooted again about 5m from where you were first rooted. (I'm not sure how this immunity is applied but if its like any other dodge roll effect it would proc at the beginning of the roll. Which would mean only 1 second of immunity to root, this is certainly how it feels in live play. ie dodge roll>block/vigor>rooted again.)

As far as investment the primary offender is Frost Blockade rooting Chilled targets, this is because one cast of Frost Blockade can proc 2-3 roots on the same target. This is made worse when combined with Warden frost effects which already give 200% chance to proc chilled. At least with Bombard and Talons your opponent has to actively recast the root a second time for each time you break free.

Digiman

Meh slower zergs I guess.

david_m_18b16_ESO

I dont get the "perma snare is required otherwise player would run away and ne unkilable" argument.

There is plenty of PvP mmo out there where your not perma snared and everything is fine.

But many eso White knight bring some weird argument to defend how clunky this game can be at time.Well I guess its mostly perma frost warden that defend this system.

ecru

Bumping this. Stopped queueing for BGs for awhile since the snares were so bad, queued tonight, three matches in a row I'm permanently snared in a BG the entire time I'm actually engaging the other team(s). Templar ritual, ice blockade, templar jabs, the list goes on and on.

Jabs is one of the biggest offenders here as far as individual, targeted snares go IMO. A 70% snare on a spammable isn't just a snare, it's a permanent form of cc that forces the templar's target to engage the templar, which effectively takes the person out of the fight. The other solution is to use a gap closer to get to another target, but again, the templar can do the same and you're probably in a ritual anyway, which brings you back to square one. Permanently CCing someone with jabs like this gives everyone else on their team the ability to disengage this 70% snared melee player whenever they're in danger, making a disconnect as easy as just running away. Heroic slash is another big offender too, although the snare is not as strong.

It should not be possible to permanently lock down a player like that, which is why we need diminishing returns/immunity timers on snares. Being CC'd like that for an extended period of time can feel like griefing even when it isn't and will absolutely lead to a more and more toxic pvp environment over time, just as it has in other games before ESO.

The bottom line is that gameplay like this is at best boring, and at worst frustrating enough to stop queueing altogether. It's just not fun at all. Melee without speed buffs in BGs is already a bit slow and sprinting/roll dodging is much more costly in nocp, making the snare meta much more frustrating in BGs than it is in Cyrodiil. I sincerely doubt there is anyone, anywhere, who will tell you that they enjoy being snared the entire time they are actually engaging their opponents, so why is it something that is possible in ESO at all?

Qbiken

ecru wrote: »

Bumping this. Stopped queueing for BGs for awhile since the snares were so bad, queued tonight, three matches in a row I'm permanently snared in a BG the entire time I'm actually engaging the other team(s). Templar ritual, ice blockade, templar jabs, the list goes on and on.

Jabs is one of the biggest offenders here as far as individual, targeted snares go IMO. A 70% snare on a spammable isn't just a snare, it's a permanent form of cc that forces the templar's target to engage the templar, which effectively takes the person out of the fight. The other solution is to use a gap closer to get to another target, but again, the templar can do the same and you're probably in a ritual anyway, which brings you back to square one. Permanently CCing someone with jabs like this gives everyone else on their team the ability to disengage this 70% snared melee player whenever they're in danger, making a disconnect as easy as just running away. Heroic slash is another big offender too, although the snare is not as strong.

It should not be possible to permanently lock down a player like that, which is why we need diminishing returns/immunity timers on snares. Being CC'd like that for an extended period of time can feel like griefing even when it isn't and will absolutely lead to a more and more toxic pvp environment over time, just as it has in other games before ESO.

The bottom line is that gameplay like this is at best boring, and at worst frustrating enough to stop queueing altogether. It's just not fun at all. Melee without speed buffs in BGs is already a bit slow and sprinting/roll dodging is much more costly in nocp, making the snare meta much more frustrating in BGs than it is in Cyrodiil. I sincerely doubt there is anyone, anywhere, who will tell you that they enjoy being snared the entire time they are actually engaging their opponents, so why is it something that is possible in ESO at all?

I don't mind jabs having the snare (and only on last hit), jabs is clunky as it is and needs to be able to land somehow. Frostblockade and ritual are worse imo.