The snare&root meta

frostz417

Before I begin I will first list all abilities that snare or root.

Templar:
Puncturing strikes: reduces the movement speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds.
Sun fire: reduces the enemy movement speed by 40%
Sacred ground passive: reduces enemy movement speed by 30% when standing in your runes.

Dragon knight:
Warmth passive: dealing damage with an ardent flame ability reduces enemy movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds
Dark talons: immobilize enemy for 4 seconds (no cooldown)
Fossilize: immobilize after the enemy is stunned
Ash cloud: reduces enemy movement speed by 70% when standing in the area

Nightblade:
Teleport strike: briefly snares enemy players
Lotus fan: snares enemies for longer
Consuming darkness: reduces enemy movement speed by 70% when standing in the area
Aspect of terror: reduced movement speed after fear by 50% for 4 seconds
Cripple: reduces movement speed by 40%
Crippling grasp: immobilized for 1.5 seconds (no cooldown)

Sorcerer:
Encase: immobilize your enemy for 4.5 seconds (no cooldown)
Daedric mines: immobilized enemy for 1.5 seconds

Warden:
Sleet storm: reduces enemy movement speed by 70%
Impaling shards: reduces movement speed by 30%
Gripping shards: immobilized enemy when casted (no cooldown)
Frozen gate: immobilized enemy for 3 seconds (no cooldown)

2 hander:
Stampede: reduces enemy movement speed by 40%

Sword and shield:
Low slash: reduces enemy movement speed by 60% for 4 seconds

Dual wield:
Rending slashes: reduces enemy movement speed by 40% for 4 seconds
Hidden blade: reduces enemy movement speed by 40% for 4 seconds

Bow:
Arrow spray: reduces enemy movement speed by 40% for 6 seconds
Bombard: immobilizes enemy when hit (no cooldown)

Destruction staff:
Blockade of frost: reduces enemy movement speed by 70% and immobilized chilled enemies (no cooldown)
Frost clench: immobilizes enemy (no cooldown)

Fighters guild:
Silver bolts: decreases enemy movement speed by 40%
Trap beast: immobilizes enemy for 6 seconds (no cooldown)

Mages guild:
Ice comet: reduces movement speed for enemies hit

Undaunted:
Trapping webs: reduces enemy movement speed by 50%

Assault:
Caltrops: reduces enemy movement speed by 70% when standing in the area and 40% when hit.

It’s very clear that snares are far to prevalent in this game. Not only that but many are even connected to spammables.
What makes this worse is the fact that when removing 1 snare the next one is already replaced and on you. Or the enemy can just hit the snare again effortlessly. Snares are clearly over performing right now with how easily accessible they are, to top it off there’s little things in this game that provide snare/root immunity or even removes all of them.
Roots are an even bigger issue. The fact that people can just spam roots and permanently keep people locked down is ridiculous. Once again little to no root immunities in the game. There’s no cooldown at all and they’re easily able to be reapplied.

Now let’s go over abilities that remove all snares and roots and grant immunities.

Shuffle: .5 seconds per medium armor equipped. Seeing that it’s common knowledge to do 5 medium and 2 other piece to get better stats. This is only 2.5 seconds

Forward momentum: 4 seconds of snare and root immunity.
Shouldn’t have ever been nerfed and is one of the best sources of snare&root immunity.

Reflective scales: removes all snares and roots and grants immunity for 2 seconds.

Good, but once again not even close to long enough.

Mist form: grants immunity to all disabling effects for 4 seconds.
Arguably the best but you have to gimp yourself into being a vampire and taking 25% more damage to fire abilities and 20% more damage to fighters guild abilities.

All of these forms of immunity have a drawback. Shuffle requires medium armor, mist form requires vampirism, forward momentum requires a 2h and sacrificing the big heal from rally
Wings are only accessible to dragon knights.

That being said snares and roots have no drawbacks. They’re all connected to common spammables, have no cooldown and can effortlessly be used.
Something needs to be done about the snare/root meta because PvP currently is just walking in the mud with the amount of times you’re snared and rooted.

Personally I think snares should be put into a minor and major system.
Minor ensnare reducing movement speed by 10%
Major ensnare reducing movement speed by 30%
Either that or They shouldn’t be as commonly accessible as they are now
Roots need a cooldown there’s no way around it. PvP wise.
You should at least have a 4 second cooldown from all roots after being rooted. The fact that you’re able to be spammed with roots and snares is an extremely big issue in the game.

Now to address some counter arguments
Templars cleanse does not remove all snares&roots. It removes negative effects and they will not prioritize roots. Not to mention they can easily be reapplied since cleanse provides no immunities.

Wardens Netch only cleanses 1 negative effect and doesn’t provide any immunity nor does it prioritize snares&roots

Purge only removes 2 negative effects and once again does not prioritize snares
Or roots nor does it grant immunities

MalagenR

10% snare reduction is worthless - needs to be at least 30% to actually allow for creating distance and for a snare to be meaningful.

I wouldn't mind a 30/50 system or a 20/60 system.

NordSwordnBoard

frostz417 wrote: »

That being said snares and roots have no drawbacks. They’re all connected to common spammables, have no cooldown and can effortlessly be used.
Something needs to be done about the snare/root meta because PvP currently is just walking in the mud with the amount of times you’re snared and rooted.

The stationary types like "trap beast" and sorc mines aren't really spamable by nature. I have less problems with those than the direct application snares and roots.

The drawback to encase is meager damage and casting it 2-3 times just to make it work.

I agree that there is a lot of it going around and adjustments would help. I would rather see break free fixed, and then see how these things work when you can actually perform the counter to them. Failing to break fear w/full stam is what gets on my nerves the most because it can decide fights in a cheap way.

Emma_Overload

The biggest problem with snares and roots is the fact that there is so much imbalance between Stamina and Magicka. Stamina builds have tons of tools and capabilities to deal with these issues, but Magicka is mostly screwed.

Ranger209

Thank you for including roots.

_Ahala_

A few minor corrections and additions... frozen gate can only root after it pulls enemies so even if they deliberately stand in the (reflectable in case anyone was wondering) trap over and over and don’t remove the root their is still a 4s cooldown, stampede is a 60% snare iirc, blockade of frost is a 60% snare, icy rage roots for 3s (lol at anyone using this useless ult though), snaring and rooting poisons exist, bombard is annoyingly coded as a 100% snare rather than a root, and all gap closers all have a brief untyped snare that ignores immunity

ecru

Emma_Overload wrote: »

The biggest problem with snares and roots is the fact that there is so much imbalance between Stamina and Magicka. Stamina builds have tons of tools and capabilities to deal with these issues, but Magicka is mostly screwed.

No, this is not the biggest problem, lol. Shuffle is a waste of a bar slot for this reason because two seconds is honestly nothing, and Forward Momentum forces you to give up the heal from Rally, which leaves builds like stamdk with no real heal besides vigor. You do realize that stam has to actually be in melee range to do damage, right? Ranged might get snared when melee decides to snare you or someone hits you with a ranged snare, otherwise you're free to do damage to groups stacked up on top of their perma-snaring ground aoe. Stamina is free to get snared in an ice blockade or ritual while they attempt to dps and maybe eat a few dawnbreakers and see a permafrost go up because they chose to get into melee range. It might seem frustrating to get snared while you're trying to kite, but try to imagine being permanently snared while also being required to stay in melee range to actually fulfill your role.

Ranger209 wrote: »

Thank you for including roots.

Yeah, this. Roll dodging out of a root just to get rooted a second later should not be possible.

heavier

problems with snares

• casts quickly and effortlessly, applied in fullest immediately after proccing, no gradual decrease of movement speed, leaving no time to react
• useless as defensive resource because lockon (lol) gapclose some of which apply snare (lol)
• too high of snare for too long of duration. a 70% snare shouldn't last for more than a second. keep big snares but cut back on how long they last.

Iskiab

Is this a werewolf ‘make me OP’ thread? Right now snaring and rooting them is the best way to handle them, without snares and roots they’d be OP. If you’re a different melee class and you have no ranged or gap closers you’re doing it wrong.

frostz417

Iskiab wrote: »

Is this a werewolf ‘make me OP’ thread? Right now snaring and rooting them is the best way to handle them, without snares and roots they’d be OP. If you’re a different melee class and you have no ranged or gap closers you’re doing it wrong.

I don’t even see how this thread has anything to do with werewolves.
Gap closers get you killed in open world and are extremely unreliable. I play multiple stam classes extremely effectively without gap closers and they do not solve the problem of snares&roots. They only send you to another enemy which is an atrocious escape tool and further supports my point of how they get you killed.
Nowhere did I say to remove snares and roots. I stated they need major adjustments as they are severely over performing in PvP especially with how there’s very little tools to remove snares and roots and the few that are decent have an atrociously short duration.
Also a counter to werewolves is an ez dawnbreaker. I don’t care for werewolves nor do I play any so I’m honestly just baffled you even came up with something as preposterous as “is this a werewolf make me OP thread”.

Qbiken

Iskiab wrote: »

Is this a werewolf ‘make me OP’ thread? Right now snaring and rooting them is the best way to handle them, without snares and roots they’d be OP. If you’re a different melee class and you have no ranged or gap closers you’re doing it wrong.

Werewolf´s are as un-effected by the snare meta now as they´ve been in the past, and werewolfs has much better defensive capacities right now compared to pre-wolfhunter, so a werewolf complaining about snares and roots atm is just insanely biased. And why do I keep seeing people suggesting gap-closers as a counter to snares? I want to get away from the snares, not charge right into them......smh

frostz417

Qbiken wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Is this a werewolf ‘make me OP’ thread? Right now snaring and rooting them is the best way to handle them, without snares and roots they’d be OP. If you’re a different melee class and you have no ranged or gap closers you’re doing it wrong.

Werewolf´s are as un-effected by the snare meta now as they´ve been in the past, and werewolfs has much better defensive capacities right now compared to pre-wolfhunter, so a werewolf complaining about snares and roots atm is just insanely biased. And why do I keep seeing people suggesting gap-closers as a counter to snares? I want to get away from the snares, not charge right into them......smh

The “slot a gap closer” argument is as much as a meme as “slot purge dude” argument. Just shows how uninformed noobs are of PvP

zyk

I don't have a problem with it snares and roots. I think the game would be far worse without them because high mobility builds could escape effortlessly without bothering to run counters.

No one likes being snared like no one likes being defiled, but it's things like those that separate this game from a shooter. You have to think about what you do.

Lately I've been playing a light armor magblade with no snare/immobilization counters. It's been challenging, but fine.

With that said, the only thing I'd like to see are some better counters for Magicka builds.

Jeezye

Well I think snares and roots do have a fundamental place in the game's combat system and I'm more or less fine with the current mechanics. Maybe increase root immunity by another second, but keep in mind roots are by no means as spammable and accessible as snares. Most skills cost high magicka and are only worth it when using on multiple opponents.

Different story with snares. Again I think the mechanics are fine, its just the sheer amount of passive snares that makes them as bad as they are - as becomes quite obvious when examining OPs list. Simply trimm down the availability and make them exclusive to distinct skills, that would also make snaring sets much more attractive.

If we come to the point where snares are completly negated by skills/sets, we'll end up with a speed meta where you won't be able to connect any abilities at all and stam classes will cry again - because they can't stay in melee range.

frostz417

Jeezye wrote: »

Well I think snares and roots do have a fundamental place in the game's combat system and I'm more or less fine with the current mechanics. Maybe increase root immunity by another second, but keep in mind roots are by no means as spammable and accessible as snares. Most skills cost high magicka and are only worth it when using on multiple opponents.

Different story with snares. Again I think the mechanics are fine, its just the sheer amount of passive snares that makes them as bad as they are - as becomes quite obvious when examining OPs list. Simply trimm down the availability and make them exclusive to distinct skills, that would also make snaring sets much more attractive.

If we come to the point where snares are completly negated by skills/sets, we'll end up with a speed meta where you won't be able to connect any abilities at all and stam classes will cry again - because they can't stay in melee range.

I’d rather have the speed meta than spend 90% of my cyro experience walking in mud

ecru

Iskiab wrote: »

Is this a werewolf ‘make me OP’ thread? Right now snaring and rooting them is the best way to handle them, without snares and roots they’d be OP. If you’re a different melee class and you have no ranged or gap closers you’re doing it wrong.

No, it's a "snares are legitimately ruining the pvp experience for a good amount of players because they don't like being permanently snared the entire time they pvp" thread.

Iskiab

frostz417 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Is this a werewolf ‘make me OP’ thread? Right now snaring and rooting them is the best way to handle them, without snares and roots they’d be OP. If you’re a different melee class and you have no ranged or gap closers you’re doing it wrong.

Werewolf´s are as un-effected by the snare meta now as they´ve been in the past, and werewolfs has much better defensive capacities right now compared to pre-wolfhunter, so a werewolf complaining about snares and roots atm is just insanely biased. And why do I keep seeing people suggesting gap-closers as a counter to snares? I want to get away from the snares, not charge right into them......smh

The “slot a gap closer” argument is as much as a meme as “slot purge dude” argument. Just shows how uninformed noobs are of PvP

Sure, you’re posting complaining about snares and cc being overpowered but everyone else is a pvp noob.

Complaining about snares in pvp is like complaining people die. They aren’t going anywhere so why bother? You’re essentially saying you don’t like pvp or don’t like being melee.

Vapirko

Emma_Overload wrote: »

The biggest problem with snares and roots is the fact that there is so much imbalance between Stamina and Magicka. Stamina builds have tons of tools and capabilities to deal with these issues, but Magicka is mostly screwed.

By a ton you mean shuffle which is only really useful for its major evasion and insanely expensive, and FM which requires you wear heavy? Mistform works about as effectively as shuffle. Wings is a arguably better.

brandonv516

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

ecru

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

Thanatos_inside

Snares is really op. Just spam ice staff and enemy cant even come closer. Not enought damage? Torug pact. Ty ZOS.

frostz417

Iskiab wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Is this a werewolf ‘make me OP’ thread? Right now snaring and rooting them is the best way to handle them, without snares and roots they’d be OP. If you’re a different melee class and you have no ranged or gap closers you’re doing it wrong.

Werewolf´s are as un-effected by the snare meta now as they´ve been in the past, and werewolfs has much better defensive capacities right now compared to pre-wolfhunter, so a werewolf complaining about snares and roots atm is just insanely biased. And why do I keep seeing people suggesting gap-closers as a counter to snares? I want to get away from the snares, not charge right into them......smh

The “slot a gap closer” argument is as much as a meme as “slot purge dude” argument. Just shows how uninformed noobs are of PvP

Sure, you’re posting complaining about snares and cc being overpowered but everyone else is a pvp noob.

Complaining about snares in pvp is like complaining people die. They aren’t going anywhere so why bother? You’re essentially saying you don’t like pvp or don’t like being melee.

Yep, more ridiculous arguments when it’s clear you’re uninformed.
If your logic if complaining about snares tho they’re not going anywhere applies. Then literally every cry post about cp, broken bugs, PvP imbalance, are all meaningless by your logic since they’re all not going anywhere.

There’s a clear imbalance in PvP and it mostly reguards snares&roots and how they’re so prevalent and there’s too little tools to counter them. I’m not going to repeat my argument because you can just go and read it yourself once again.
I also love the argument of you shoving words in my mouth with “sure everyone is a PvP noob”

brandonv516

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

frostz417

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

oxygen_thief

Qbiken wrote: »

And why do I keep seeing people suggesting gap-closers as a counter to snares? I want to get away from the snares, not charge right into them......smh

okay then you can choose between l2p, adapt and purge

Jeezye

frostz417 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

bro one dodge roll and you're out of wall of elements. Ground based slows and roots aren't the issue - this is a clear l2p problem. Passive slows like blood craze, DK dots, as well as spammable roots, mainly cripple from what I can think of, are the issues that players can't deal with. Spamming aoe roots like blockade, talons etc. take heavy investments and aren't even that big of a deal

Qbiken

oxygen_thief wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

And why do I keep seeing people suggesting gap-closers as a counter to snares? I want to get away from the snares, not charge right into them......smh

okay then you can choose between l2p, adapt and purge

Purge doesn't give immunity and you'll be snared/rooted literally instantly afterwards. Shuffle and Forward momentum doesn't last long enough to create any distance between me and the target, which means I'll be snared or rooted shortly after again

Gap closers doesn't help me getting away from snares.......if I could gapclose without a target then that argument would work but as things are right now I can't do that....

The trade offs I've to do in order to move are much greater than the enemy needs to invest in order to slow me down, that's why snares are unbalanced atm

frostz417

Jeezye wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I want more snare removal options, that's about it.

This isn't the solution to frost blockades in every BG. Having to use every third gcd to gain snare immunity so that you can actually move shouldn't be a "feature" of ESO pvp.

So what's the solution for Frost Staff to even be relevant in PvP then?

People like to complain about Frost Staff now but it's been capable of this annoyance for years.

Charged + Frost enchant - that's the reason you keep getting rooted. And it's the reason Charged is relevant.

Root cooldown so that you’re not permanently rooted inside the ice wall since it’s ridiculously rampant in BG’s with almost nonexistent counter play.

bro one dodge roll and you're out of wall of elements. Ground based slows and roots aren't the issue - this is a clear l2p problem. Passive slows like blood craze, DK dots, as well as spammable roots, mainly cripple from what I can think of, are the issues that players can't deal with. Spamming aoe roots like blockade, talons etc. take heavy investments and aren't even that big of a deal

Smh. Looks like you forgot there’s no root cooldowns and I guess you don’t realize you can get rooted afterwards lmao

_Ahala_

Their is a 2s root cooldown after dodging out of a root... but that’s so short it might as well not exist

Brrrofski

Just let like one class ability snare. A minor snare as a side effect.

Then one for Stam like caltrops and one for magica which provides a good snare.

Way too many things snare. Like an average PvP build gets 2 or 3 snares without even thinking about it. It should be a concious choice to have a snare on your bar.

iCaliban

Snares are an integral part of the game. Without them, many players simply would not die. I have zero issues with their current state.