Can we please have a Tel-Var system for all Dungeons?
jimmulvaney
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This game is in some serious need of help when it comes to dungeon set drops. Trying to find a random chance, at a random item, on random runs is just compounding the RNG. It doesn't make the game 'more challenging' it makes it more frustrating, time-consuming, and totally sucks the enjoyment out of playing at all. I used to play every single day... USED TO but the ABSOLUTE GRIND for the Undaunted Infiltrator Lightning staff makes me wonder why even bother playing anymore? When everything is random chance, rather than a goal to progress towards, where is the fun?
Why can't we have a dungeon merchant for each zone? and collect shards towards the item we want? Heck, I would even take an opportunity to buy a colored coffer of the weapon/ armor/ jewelry type with random traits to it, so long as I knew I was getting the item I wanted. This does not mean a coffer of "Unknown Burning Spellweave Staff" but rather "Inferno Staff of Burning Spellweave" (with random trait). You could even do this for Trials and thereby make it so that all trials in (say Craglorn) made progress towards getting the items you want. That way people who are looking for Aetherian Archive are not left on the sideline while everyone else swarms Hel Ra Citadel or Sanctum Ophidia. @ZOS_GinaBruno
Why can't we have a dungeon merchant for each zone? and collect shards towards the item we want? Heck, I would even take an opportunity to buy a colored coffer of the weapon/ armor/ jewelry type with random traits to it, so long as I knew I was getting the item I wanted. This does not mean a coffer of "Unknown Burning Spellweave Staff" but rather "Inferno Staff of Burning Spellweave" (with random trait). You could even do this for Trials and thereby make it so that all trials in (say Craglorn) made progress towards getting the items you want. That way people who are looking for Aetherian Archive are not left on the sideline while everyone else swarms Hel Ra Citadel or Sanctum Ophidia. @ZOS_GinaBruno
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Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People have been asking for a Token system since Beta. About the only concession we have got is Undaunted Crates and Transmutation.
I have learned long ago to never hinge my build on a weapon that is an RNG drop.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"12 -
Shawn_PT✭✭✭✭✭
✭Like a chest at each dungeon's entrance that can be opened with, say, an Undaunted key, for a random piece of that dungeon's loot?4 -
jimmulvaney✭✭✭Like a chest at each dungeon's entrance that can be opened with, say, an Undaunted key, for a random piece of that dungeon's loot?
I was thinking more along the lines of a Merchant in one main city of each zone. It just kills me that we have a Tel-Var system for Imperial City and nothing but RNG for any place else.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »Like a chest at each dungeon's entrance that can be opened with, say, an Undaunted key, for a random piece of that dungeon's loot?
I was thinking more along the lines of a Merchant in one main city of each zone. It just kills me that we have a Tel-Var system for Imperial City and nothing but RNG for any place else.
Tell you what. You let a bunch of PvPers come kill you in dungeons and steal your precious tokens, and then we'll talk.8 -
jimmulvaney✭✭✭Or better yet, to prolong the acquisition of said item (which IMHO seems to be their only insurance that people will continue to play) make the pledge givers into merchants for the dungeons as well. And they can only offer items from the dungeons that are pledges on that day. This way the most you would have to wait once you accumulate enough shards is a week or so before you can purchase it with a random trait...? The same can be done with Trials. There are seven trials now correct? Turn the Trial quest givers into pledge masters too!Edited by jimmulvaney on March 8, 2019 4:30PM1
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jimmulvaney✭✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »Or better yet, to prolong the acquisition of said item (which IMHO seems to be their only insurance that people will continue to play) make the pledge givers into merchants for the dungeons as well. And they can only offer items from the dungeons that are pledges on that day. This way the most you would have to wait once you accumulate enough shards is a week or so before you can purchase it with a random trait...? The same can be done with Trials. There are seven trials now correct? Turn the Trial quest givers into pledge masters too!
Just because my experience is different from yours does not mean it is any less valid. Do you have anything constructive to add? if not kindly leave the thread. This is a serious concern of mine because it makes me second guess playing what has literally been one of a very few select games that I played almost daily since 2014.0 -
jimmulvaney✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »This is the least grindy MMO in this genre, so no.
And what has been your experience with trying to collect specific dungeon gear? When was the last time you tried?1 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »Like a chest at each dungeon's entrance that can be opened with, say, an Undaunted key, for a random piece of that dungeon's loot?
I was thinking more along the lines of a Merchant in one main city of each zone. It just kills me that we have a Tel-Var system for Imperial City and nothing but RNG for any place else.
Tell you what. You let a bunch of PvPers come kill you in dungeons and steal your precious tokens, and then we'll talk.
They already do this by failing DPS or mechanic checks in dungeons and wiping the group lolEdited by Silver_Strider on March 8, 2019 4:51PMArgonian forever4 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »This is the least grindy MMO in this genre, so no.
And what has been your experience with trying to collect specific dungeon gear? When was the last time you tried?
I have found it to be petty easy. The last time I tried was last weekend. I wanted a set of Burning Spellweave, preferably weapons and jewels, for the MagDK that I want to do. I alternated between soloing it on my Sorc, and running it on my tank with groups. It was one of the dailies so queuing was fast. I had everything I needed by lunchtime.
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SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »This is the least grindy MMO in this genre, so no.
And what has been your experience with trying to collect specific dungeon gear? When was the last time you tried?
I have found it to be petty easy. The last time I tried was last weekend. I wanted a set of Burning Spellweave, preferably weapons and jewels, for the MagDK that I want to do. I alternated between soloing it on my Sorc, and running it on my tank with groups. It was one of the dailies so queuing was fast. I had everything I needed by lunchtime.
Then you just got lucky. I've been trying to get the BSW inferno staff for months and I have seen in drop exactly once.1 -
jimmulvaney✭✭✭I have found it to be petty easy. The last time I tried was last weekend. I wanted a set of Burning Spellweave, preferably weapons and jewels, for the MagDK that I want to do. I alternated between soloing it on my Sorc, and running it on my tank with groups. It was one of the dailies so queuing was fast. I had everything I needed by lunchtime.
Well, I am going onto my 50th or so run (yes, I am keeping count). I have read threads online of people losing count after 250+ runs. One claimed to be somewhere up in the 300 run range with the VO Dagger. Which if true, is absolutely absurd but completely possible because of the sheer number of people who run Sanctum Ophidia on the weekends. I am running it mostly on my Nord DK Tank, but have done entire days of nothing but Dunmer Mag DK DPS, and Altmer Storm Sorc DPS thanks to my guildies. I have gotten several Sweetsongs and Snake Charm necklaces (in gold), tons of UI RIngs, Resto Staffs, SO MANY COMPLETE LAMIA sets and no one in any of my groups has even SEEN a UI Lightning Staff since I started hunting err... GRINDING MY BRAINS OUT for it.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »This is the least grindy MMO in this genre, so no.
And what has been your experience with trying to collect specific dungeon gear? When was the last time you tried?
Last time I tried, with only transmuting 1 piece, no weapons needed, it took me 30 runs of Darkshade Caverns to get my Automaton set in Impen for PVP, running just by myself in PUGs through groupfinder.
Last time I tried with transmuting all the pieces, no weapons needed, and with a group of 4 friends, it took us 5 or 6 runs to get the pieces of Pillar of Nirn I needed for PVP.
Obviously, weapons are going to be harder to acquire. It took a ton of runs pre-transmutation before I got my defending One-handed weapon in Worm's Raiment.
Still, I think the grind is working as ZOS intends. Transmutation makes it more forgiving when it comes to getting the trait you want, but its still down to RNG whether you get the type of gear/weapon you want. It all boils down to ZOS encouraging players to play the game, again, and again, and again in order to get what they want. A token system benefits players, but doesn't really further than goal of getting players to play, again and again and again.3 -
jimmulvaney✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Still, I think the grind is working as ZOS intends. Transmutation makes it more forgiving when it comes to getting the trait you want, but its still down to RNG whether you get the type of gear/weapon you want. It all boils down to ZOS encouraging players to play the game, again, and again, and again in order to get what they want. A token system benefits players, but doesn't really further than goal of getting players to play, again and again and again.
Interesting. Personally, I don't see how this would do anything but encourage people to play, not just the game but to be more active in pledges, I mean I don't see it being a detriment and in that case, the only where to go from there is up, right?
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SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »
Interesting. Personally, I don't see how this would do anything but encourage people to play, not just the game but to be more active in pledges, I mean I don't see it being a detriment and in that case, the only where to go from there is up, right?
I've seen people burn out after the grind. They run stuff many, many times and when they finally get what they want they're too burnt-out to care much. I think ZOS would be better off adjusting the RNG or otherwise making it less difficult to get what you want. There's got to be a sweet spot between making people work for something and then ensuring that they stay engaged once they obtain it. I don't think that players should have to run vMA 50+ times to get what they want.
Edited by SidraWillowsky on March 8, 2019 6:10PM5 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »jimmulvaney wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »This is the least grindy MMO in this genre, so no.
And what has been your experience with trying to collect specific dungeon gear? When was the last time you tried?
I have found it to be petty easy. The last time I tried was last weekend. I wanted a set of Burning Spellweave, preferably weapons and jewels, for the MagDK that I want to do. I alternated between soloing it on my Sorc, and running it on my tank with groups. It was one of the dailies so queuing was fast. I had everything I needed by lunchtime.
Then you just got lucky. I've been trying to get the BSW inferno staff for months and I have seen in drop exactly once.
True, I typically have some fairly nice RNG! 🤣
Blobs has a video of the fastest way to farm CoA, which just involves stealthing through and farming all the chests. You may want to try that if you’re struggling.
Edited by Raammzzaa on March 8, 2019 6:09PM0 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »Like a chest at each dungeon's entrance that can be opened with, say, an Undaunted key, for a random piece of that dungeon's loot?
I was thinking more along the lines of a Merchant in one main city of each zone. It just kills me that we have a Tel-Var system for Imperial City and nothing but RNG for any place else.
Tell you what. You let a bunch of PvPers come kill you in dungeons and steal your precious tokens, and then we'll talk.
@Alucardo why?skingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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jimmulvaney✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »I've seen people burn out after the grind. They run stuff many, man times and when they finally get what they want they're too burnt-out to care much. I think ZOS would be better off adjusting the RNG or otherwise making it less difficult to get what you want. There's got to be a sweet spot between making people work for something and then ensuring that they stay engaged once they obtain it. I don't think that players should have to run vMA 50+ times to get what they want.
I agree, I haven't even started the VMA grind yet which is the whole reason I want these items. I actually lost a GM because they got bored with the gear grind (which is the only character progression once you max CP, Levels and Skills). He doesn't play anymore.
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »Like a chest at each dungeon's entrance that can be opened with, say, an Undaunted key, for a random piece of that dungeon's loot?
I was thinking more along the lines of a Merchant in one main city of each zone. It just kills me that we have a Tel-Var system for Imperial City and nothing but RNG for any place else.
Tell you what. You let a bunch of PvPers come kill you in dungeons and steal your precious tokens, and then we'll talk.
@Alucardo why?
Collecting Tel Var comes with a very high risk. You have to constantly return to the bank, or risk having a majority of your hard-earned stones taken from you. Running dungeons is relatively easy. Hell, most people can solo them without fuss. It only makes sense there's merchants in IC.
To top that off, there's no other way to really obtain gear. Sure they could make it drop from the district bosses, but because it's a free-for-all zone and not instanced like your pve dungeons, there's not enough bosses for everyone.
Finally, it gives people a reason to go to IC (moreso if they updated the sets in there).
ZOS have made getting the gear you want relatively easy with transmute stones, loot sharing, and 100% chance monster helmet drops. Adding the ability to just buy what you want is being spoonfed far too much.0 -
jimmulvaney✭✭✭ZOS have made getting the gear you want relatively easy with transmute stones, loot sharing, and 100% chance monster helmet drops. Adding the ability to just buy what you want is being spoonfed far too much.
I see and how many runs does it take you to gather enough Tel-Var to buy ONE item you want? Does it even come close to 200 runs? 300 runs? I highly doubt it because of the sheer volume of TV stones that can be collected on a single run. There is not enough bosses but plenty of players and therefor magnitudes more opportunity to collect. And please understand I am not saying to have "Tel-Var Stones" specifically, just a similar system to it for PVE purposes.2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My opinion, if playing the game seems like a grind you are playing it wrong. Find something else to do in the game for a while.
That said we all know if there were a token system added for dungeons and trials it would be similar to jewelry crafting. If you are the grind type it would be trading one grind for another. The current RNG style has an advantage in you might get what you want right away. It does happen. The downside being it could take a lifetime or two.
With a token system the advantage is you know exactly how many tokens it will take for your gear. Downside is it will always take that many tokens and require the same amount of time. No hope of getting a weapon quickly.
People being people we are more apt to come back with the RNG system in place. Just the way our brains are built. The grind will be on the average about the same either way. Going with RNG keeps the game healthier so RNG is probably here to stay.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »ZOS have made getting the gear you want relatively easy with transmute stones, loot sharing, and 100% chance monster helmet drops. Adding the ability to just buy what you want is being spoonfed far too much.
I see and how many runs does it take you to gather enough Tel-Var to buy ONE item you want? Does it even come close to 200 runs? 300 runs? I highly doubt it because of the sheer volume of TV stones that can be collected on a single run. There is not enough bosses but plenty of players and therefor magnitudes more opportunity to collect. And please understand I am not saying to have "Tel-Var Stones" specifically, just a similar system to it for PVE purposes.
It depends on what kind of resistance is down there. But compared to the gear you get in dungeons, the IC stuff is pretty bad in the grand scheme of things. I haven't bought anything in there since the Black Rose nerf because nothing else seems worth it.0 -
jimmulvaney✭✭✭With a token system the advantage is you know exactly how many tokens it will take for your gear. Downside is it will always take that many tokens and require the same amount of time. No hope of getting a weapon quickly.
People being people we are more apt to come back with the RNG system in place. Just the way our brains are built. The grind will be on the average about the same either way. Going with RNG keeps the game healthier so RNG is probably here to stay.
Well, this was just me stating my issue and brainstorming a solution, for which I have seen a problem since a thread started in 2017. Anyways I do not claim to know all the answers but I play a mobile game where they just last week decided to be more transparent with your progression to rare drops. They still have that random chance of 1-100% drop, but at the same time is a shard system with a progress bar that once you fill it up to 100 (with a random amount of shards between 1-10 shards per fight) you are awarded that drop. So you can earn it and still get it randomly and the entire community has responded to it very positively.
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VexingArcanist✭✭✭✭Token systems are the best way to get a handle on RNG however current MMOs refuse to offer it (DDO did and it was great). You rack up points/tokens as you try to get the item via RNG but at some point you have enough points/tokens to buy it from a merchant so you DO have a light at the end of the tunnel.
To bad developers HATE anything NOT RNG.1 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jimmulvaney wrote: »Like a chest at each dungeon's entrance that can be opened with, say, an Undaunted key, for a random piece of that dungeon's loot?
I was thinking more along the lines of a Merchant in one main city of each zone. It just kills me that we have a Tel-Var system for Imperial City and nothing but RNG for any place else.
Tell you what. You let a bunch of PvPers come kill you in dungeons and steal your precious tokens, and then we'll talk.
@Alucardo why?
Collecting Tel Var comes with a very high risk. You have to constantly return to the bank, or risk having a majority of your hard-earned stones taken from you. Running dungeons is relatively easy. Hell, most people can solo them without fuss. It only makes sense there's merchants in IC.
To top that off, there's no other way to really obtain gear. Sure they could make it drop from the district bosses, but because it's a free-for-all zone and not instanced like your pve dungeons, there's not enough bosses for everyone.
Finally, it gives people a reason to go to IC (moreso if they updated the sets in there).
ZOS have made getting the gear you want relatively easy with transmute stones, loot sharing, and 100% chance monster helmet drops. Adding the ability to just buy what you want is being spoonfed far too much.
@Alucardo OP isn't asking for the current tel-var system to be implemented into pve only dungeons lmao. they're basically asking for some kind of token system, which is long overdue
don't worry imp city'ers, your precious risk vs reward system isn't being suggested for removal/trivializationskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭i'd also love it if dungeons dropped mats as a reward or anything meaningful for earning gold. That way there'd always be people to do dungeons with.Edited by HowlKimchi on March 8, 2019 6:41PM1 -
jimmulvaney✭✭✭i'd also love it if dungeons dropped mats as a reward or anything meaningful for earning gold. That way there'd always be people to do dungeons with.
Well most enemies do drop medium mat pieces (hides and leathers and such) as well as food and alchemy items. Not sure how the other crafts would fit into their inventory..? Although you can do what I do [Grand Master Crafter] I merch all my whites that are not intricate, guild store the intricates, and then break down the colored ones I don't plan on using. Plenty of mats and gold that way.Edited by jimmulvaney on March 8, 2019 6:47PM0
