How can stealth and stealth detection be improved in elder scrolls?

Cundu_Ertur

Ri_Khan wrote: »

It's hard to say what should be done not knowing what the technical limitations are. I can say that the stealth game here plays like it was a lazy afterthought; sloppy; disconnected; not engaging; devoid of fun. It's like an annoying chore to deal with.

Most of the TG/DB/Legerdemain skills are useless outside of their respective content. After fully maxing all three lines there's no real sense of progression happening, you just make/save some gold. They should be edited to make them more versatile for the rest of the game. Perhaps combine Legerdemain and TG lines. Is there not some redundancy happening there anyway? Turn one of them into stealth specific and fix what currently exists to fit that accordingly?

Maybe making stealth mechanics more consistent would also help. Why can I remain hidden while jumping up and down or rummaging through a desk right next to an npc but the second I roll dodge, disarm a trap or even try to pick a flower everyone grows eyes in the back of their head?

There should probably also be some distinctions between pve and pvp stealth but I don't even care to comment on what should be done about all that, there's no need to get banned on a beautiful friday.

I disagree with merging the TG and legerdemain lines. First off, not everyone has the TG DLC. Hiding ALL stealth/crime gameplay behind a paywall is doubleplusuncool. The other points are good, though.

Ri_Khan

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

I disagree with merging the TG and legerdemain lines. First off, not everyone has the TG DLC. Hiding ALL stealth/crime gameplay behind a paywall is doubleplusuncool. The other points are good, though.

Yeah that would suck and wasn't at all what I was trying to suggest. Unfortunately I wouldn't expect to see any new stealth skill line added without it being integrated into paid content either so that is probably one of the limiting factors with this type of thing.

Narvuntien

The problem I find that for PVP is that the engage range is larger than the stealth detection range when you consider Lag.

I just wish it were possible to do the classic thing where you can see stealthed enemies but can't target them like they appear to see through like a stealth boy in Fallout. So you can prepare to be attacked but can't yet fight back and if you are a stealthy ganker you have to prepare not just run around in stealth like you can now.

TriangularChicken

Keep stealth and cloak in PvE. Remove stealth in PvP, as the name says its Player vs Player not Coward(s) hiding in stealth trying to outnumber vs 1 Player.

Alucardo

RealDolanTrump wrote: »

Keep stealth and cloak in PvE. Remove stealth in PvP, as the name says its Player vs Player not Coward(s) hiding in stealth trying to outnumber vs 1 Player.

When you step closer and notice 8 AD players slowly coming out of stealth like a bunch of meerkats popping their heads above some tall grass.
Happens too often.

Shardaxx

Nobody should be able to detect me.

jainiadral

VaranisArano wrote: »

The one thing I think is missing from PVE stealth is a Ranged One Shot similar to the Blade of Woe. I'll admit it. I miss Skyrim's stealth archery. Snipe doesn't cut it.

However, I'm not a huge fan of ZOS deciding to shoehorn stealth into the new quests like in Morrowind and Murkmire. My Vestige is not stealthy, but on the other hand, if your quest givers are all like "Try not to kill anyone please!" I'm stuck going "Okay, I guess I'll try this sneaky thing and hiding in baskets and staying out of sight while I creep through this house/warehouse trying to find all the info...even though I suck at stealth and hiding in baskets is ridiculous..."

I pretty much have to rely on death as my ultimate stealth power. Get caught, trigger trespass bounty, stand there and wait for enemy NPCs to kill me to a) save gold and b) make it to the next objective. That stupid Murkmire quest was the worst. High enemy density, tresspass + murder bounties on red enemies, and that one @%&%#$ Nord guard who wouldn't budge from the last objective.

I had to die twice to her only to find she never moved and you can't hide in the basket when you've taken a dirt nap. If you materialized she'd get you mid-basket-hide. I ended up having to kill her and use a couple of those counterfeit pardons I finally wayshrined out of the final building instead of sneaking 20' to the hole in the fence.

Yuck.

max_only

@Starlock

I didn’t realize this before but the Shadowy Supplier, Remains-Silent, has a chance to give you a Monk’s Disguise if you choose the middle option which is even closer to “blend” than the footpad.

starkerealm

Sanctum74 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Introduce steadily increasing oblivion damage for each second in stealth

Umm, damage would pull them out of stealth.

Use the counters. Pull them out of stealth and kill them yourself.

It's called sarcasm, personally I have no problem dealing with stealthers even though it's a cowardly play style which contributes nothing to the campaign.

Well, you know what they say: "The only unfair fight is the one you lose."

Also, a couple well placed skirmishers can completely block reinforcements from coming in to support a struggling force, so saying they add nothing is patently false. They get in your way and annoy you, but that's their purpose. They can disrupt organized operations, which means they're doing their job.

A poorly played ganker offers nothing to the campaign, but the same can be said of anyone else botching their job in Cyrodiil.

Sanctum74

starkerealm wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Introduce steadily increasing oblivion damage for each second in stealth

Umm, damage would pull them out of stealth.

Use the counters. Pull them out of stealth and kill them yourself.

It's called sarcasm, personally I have no problem dealing with stealthers even though it's a cowardly play style which contributes nothing to the campaign.

Well, you know what they say: "The only unfair fight is the one you lose."

Also, a couple well placed skirmishers can completely block reinforcements from coming in to support a struggling force, so saying they add nothing is patently false. They get in your way and annoy you, but that's their purpose. They can disrupt organized operations, which means they're doing their job.

A poorly played ganker offers nothing to the campaign, but the same can be said of anyone else botching their job in Cyrodiil.

In theory you are correct, but unfortunately at least for the AD on PS4 NA that couldn't be any further from the truth.The only time they contribute is when the odds are 5:1 in their favor and usually stealth away on keep defenses. Not exactly my definition of helpful.

Starlock

max_only wrote: »

@Starlock

I didn’t realize this before but the Shadowy Supplier, Remains-Silent, has a chance to give you a Monk’s Disguise if you choose the middle option which is even closer to “blend” than the footpad.

Yes, that's true! I'd forgotten about that. Only lasts five minutes though, which is enough time to get in and out of a big city to respec your ne'er do well characters and that's about it. XD

starkerealm

Sanctum74 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Introduce steadily increasing oblivion damage for each second in stealth

Umm, damage would pull them out of stealth.

Use the counters. Pull them out of stealth and kill them yourself.

It's called sarcasm, personally I have no problem dealing with stealthers even though it's a cowardly play style which contributes nothing to the campaign.

Well, you know what they say: "The only unfair fight is the one you lose."

Also, a couple well placed skirmishers can completely block reinforcements from coming in to support a struggling force, so saying they add nothing is patently false. They get in your way and annoy you, but that's their purpose. They can disrupt organized operations, which means they're doing their job.

A poorly played ganker offers nothing to the campaign, but the same can be said of anyone else botching their job in Cyrodiil.

In theory you are correct, but unfortunately at least for the AD on PS4 NA that couldn't be any further from the truth.The only time they contribute is when the odds are 5:1 in their favor and usually stealth away on keep defenses. Not exactly my definition of helpful.

Yeah, unfortunately, if there's a problem here, it's that one alliance got both stealth focused races. Not the existence of the mechanic itself. And, this is player behavior. You'll see the same thing from both other alliances based on the morale of the players involved. So, that's players letting you don't. Not the stealth system itself as an issue. If there was no stealth system, they'd simply death gate away instead.

WillhelmBlack

It should be surpressed in PvP. Most players I hope should be able to see a guy crouching on one knee 20m in front of them irl.

The whole stealth thing in PvP is just bizarre and broken.

Cloak is a spell, sure, but it shouldn't make you invisible. It should make you look like Predator for 3 seconds and non target able, another player should be able to see where you go. Shade is still the best for getting you out of a sticky situation, with Cloak in its current state it's just completely ridiculous.

Minyassa

One thing I think would improve stealth mechanics in the game a lot is if they gave some sort of buff to Wood Elves that helps to lessen the chance an enemy has to detect them. After all, it's mentioned in the lore quite a lot, it would make sense for them to have that.

Tasear

Captured items or steal items from other them base.

Sneak through a maze without getting caught.

Make them competitions against other players in hews bane.

JumpmanLane

Oh god do not add any more stealth missions in PvE. I always get bored and just start murdering people and ending with a huge bounty.

In pvp stealth is fine. It works and there are effective counters. PLEASE OP, don’t be a busy body and encourage ZOS to fiddle with stealth. Stealth missions are few and far between in PvE, few enough to be avoided and not miss much. It is fine for PvP. Leave it ALL alone lol. Rather, how about encouraging ZOS to fix some of the BUGS runnin’ ‘round hur!

todokete

Don't fix what's not broken seriously

D0PAMINE

@max_only

Would be nice to level up stealth by doing stealthy things unseen. Maybe bosmer can level up radius reduction quicker than other races. That would encourage the playstyle so many people create a Bosmer for.

idk

Based off replies I have seen in the forums the biggest improvement would be to get people to use stealth detection. Most that complain about stealth seem to either choose to never use it or cannot figure how to use them even though they are simple and straight forward.

But stealth itself should not be altered because players choose to not use the counters. That is a poor and shortsighted way to manage a game.

Huyen

Gilvoth wrote: »

stealth should be on off switch, no one should be able to take others out of stealth.
remove the "eye" and all ability to be pulled out of stealth.
it should work that way in both PVE and PVP.

and by the way, i took that from morrowind single player game as well as several MMO's do it that way, so please do it in eso as well.

Your suggestion will cause alot of trolling like happens in oW for example. Still in favor of your suggestion tho.

D0PAMINE

Leeched wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

stealth should be on off switch, no one should be able to take others out of stealth.
remove the "eye" and all ability to be pulled out of stealth.
it should work that way in both PVE and PVP.

and by the way, i took that from morrowind single player game as well as several MMO's do it that way, so please do it in eso as well.

I am glad you aren't a Class Rep - and I hope stealth will get nerfed to high heaven just so people like you actually have to start to l2p

It's easy to pull people out of stealth as it is. No need for a nerf. I don't have any issues while using the counters.

idk

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Leeched wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

stealth should be on off switch, no one should be able to take others out of stealth.
remove the "eye" and all ability to be pulled out of stealth.
it should work that way in both PVE and PVP.

and by the way, i took that from morrowind single player game as well as several MMO's do it that way, so please do it in eso as well.

I am glad you aren't a Class Rep - and I hope stealth will get nerfed to high heaven just so people like you actually have to start to l2p

It's easy to pull people out of stealth as it is. No need for a nerf. I don't have any issues while using the counters.

Exactly what I said. Some choose to not use the counters and that is a poor reason to ask for a nerf.

D0PAMINE

Starlock wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

@Starlock

I didn’t realize this before but the Shadowy Supplier, Remains-Silent, has a chance to give you a Monk’s Disguise if you choose the middle option which is even closer to “blend” than the footpad.

Yes, that's true! I'd forgotten about that. Only lasts five minutes though, which is enough time to get in and out of a big city to respec your ne'er do well characters and that's about it. XD

Wait what? I never knew about this at all

D0PAMINE

idk wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Leeched wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

stealth should be on off switch, no one should be able to take others out of stealth.
remove the "eye" and all ability to be pulled out of stealth.
it should work that way in both PVE and PVP.

and by the way, i took that from morrowind single player game as well as several MMO's do it that way, so please do it in eso as well.

I am glad you aren't a Class Rep - and I hope stealth will get nerfed to high heaven just so people like you actually have to start to l2p

It's easy to pull people out of stealth as it is. No need for a nerf. I don't have any issues while using the counters.

Exactly what I said. Some choose to not use the counters and that is a poor reason to ask for a nerf.

Theres also the Revealing Flare skill. A whole skill dedicated to counter stealth. You may loose a skill slot, but you also get magicka regen for slotting with the support passive which aids in the casting.and it's not that expensive

max_only

Starlock wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

@Starlock

I didn’t realize this before but the Shadowy Supplier, Remains-Silent, has a chance to give you a Monk’s Disguise if you choose the middle option which is even closer to “blend” than the footpad.

Yes, that's true! I'd forgotten about that. Only lasts five minutes though, which is enough time to get in and out of a big city to respec your ne'er do well characters and that's about it. XD

I’ve recently had the opportunity to try it and my only wish was that I could add it to the Quickslot wheel.

Jeremy

Tasear wrote: »

How to do you currently feel about stealth in eso?

How do you want to interact with stealth in gameplay?

If you could create new skills for dark brotherhood or thieves guild what would you do?

Is there anything you would take from other games and add to eso in regards to stealth?



...
So my personal thoughts is to add new group event to thieves guild zone that deals with hide and go seek, real scouting missions,

My biggest issue with stealth is how it's tied directly to medium armor and armor sets - so it requires it's own build pretty much to be good at it. I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or good thing. I can see good arguments on both sides of that issue.

But I would probably take part in more stealth activities if I could increase my stealth prowess through alternative means instead of having to give up my primary build to accomplish it. Though I do have a stealth set up buried in my hideout that I do sometimes breakout and use.

bmnoble

The only change to stealth I want, is for it to stop resetting boss fights when playing solo.

MartiniDaniels

If you mean PVE stealth, then stealth should work like in Skyrim - you may return back to stealth using LOS and mobs should be searching for you, instead of having perma detection/wallhack after fight start. On live mobs will run for you half of the map no matter how fast you move and amount of obstacles between.

Passive stealth detection radius like bosmer's or way of air's should dispel invisibility in a cone in front of you, that's the only way to make it useful.

Jaraal

Minyassa wrote: »

One thing I think would improve stealth mechanics in the game a lot is if they gave some sort of buff to Wood Elves that helps to lessen the chance an enemy has to detect them. After all, it's mentioned in the lore quite a lot, it would make sense for them to have that.

Exactly this. I was speaking to this Kajiit in Rawl'kha, and he seems to indicate that Bosmer should be exceptional at stealing things. Perhaps they have some sort of plan in place to make the dialogue and voice acting in this case (and many others) relevant?