"ESO: The Future of The Frost Staff" Survey by the ESO Frost Discord

ESO_Nightingale

Hello all! Today I'm presenting a survey to you all to see what you think should happen to the Frost Staff in the future. Using this information, The ESO Frost Discord will begin to advocate towards the majority. (We will also release the results of the survey!)

You'll find more information in the survey below.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScquA4wCG27ShdKxfa_Hevc87g8YIwkEGvQnTS0pzJMiljZ1g/viewform

if you have questions, feel free to join the ESO Frost Discord!: https://discord.gg/ZR8SRbv

Final edit:
I've cleared up the situation with the link removal. It's now been cleared and i can put it back up!

It now requires reddit/forums or discord names for those entering.

For those who may feel upset that they entered their @name. Please don't worry i am not going to be using it unless to look through to see if people have use duplicates or clearly fake names. My focus is on the final question.

AndrewQ84

See, I would've done this, but I am not adding my @name to the survey. I do not want that info being used. The fact that it is required put me off right away. That being said, frost staff should remain for tanking and make it better suited for it.

HidesFromSun

Same as above. Maybe i'm just being paranoid, but i'd rather not need to put my @name. Dont see how it's relevant tbh

ESO_Nightingale

Derlfak wrote: »

Same as above. Maybe i'm just being paranoid, but i'd rather not need to put my @name. Dont see how it's relevant tbh

it's to prevent data skewering. if people didn't skewer data, i wouldn't have included it. sorry. i'll include an entry for you. just let me know what option and server/platform. you deserve to have your voice heard. same goes for @AndrewQ84.

HidesFromSun

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

it's to prevent data skewering. if people didn't skewer data, i wouldn't have included it.

Yeah, now that you mention it, it does make perfect sense.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I'll include an entry for you. just let me know what option and server/platform. you deserve to have your voice heard.

It's all good i'll fill it in normally. Thanks for caring about my opinion though, i'll be sure to add it

ESO_Nightingale

Derlfak wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

it's to prevent data skewering. if people didn't skewer data, i wouldn't have included it.

Yeah, now that you mention it, it does make perfect sense.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I'll include an entry for you. just let me know what option and server/platform. you deserve to have your voice heard.

It's all good i'll fill it in normally. Thanks for caring about my opinion though, i'll be sure to add it

thank you for voicing your opinion!

Darkstorne

Voted for DPS. It's a TES staple, and MagWardens really need some PVE love.

However, I honestly believe the ideal solution is implementing morphs for passives. I know that's a lot of work for ZOS, but it would allow for far more flexibility and customization of roles. Not just with frost staves being able to fill both of these roles, but it allows multiple weapon types to branch into tanking/DPS, potentially even stamina/magicka passive morphs for weapons (or at least morphs that allow them to fit more easily into both roles), and addresses the current hot topic of racial passives still being too restrictive to play-style.

Failing that, I really like your solution of moving the taunt effect of ice staff into Elemental Susceptibility - a skill no one uses. That also frees frost staves up to be DPS sticks again, without removing the tanking option. And even if passive morphs did happen, this skill still needs an update regardless, so sure, why not

ESO_Nightingale

Darkstorne wrote: »

Voted for DPS. It's a TES staple, and MagWardens really need some PVE love.

However, I honestly believe the ideal solution is implementing morphs for passives. I know that's a lot of work for ZOS, but it would allow for far more flexibility and customization of roles. Not just with frost staves being able to fill both of these roles, but it allows multiple weapon types to branch into tanking/DPS, potentially even stamina/magicka passive morphs for weapons (or at least morphs that allow them to fit more easily into both roles), and addresses the current hot topic of racial passives still being too restrictive to play-style.

Failing that, I really like your solution of moving the taunt effect of ice staff into Elemental Susceptibility - a skill no one uses. That also frees frost staves up to be DPS sticks again, without removing the tanking option. And even if passive morphs did happen, this skill still needs an update regardless, so sure, why not

The sheer amount of difference in the game that would make would be incredible, but i'd have to agree. It seems like it's too much work. And thanks for your support of the Discord's ideas!

josiahva

Great...another thread for taking away part of the tanking tookit, since magicka DPS thinks they need a 3rd weapon, even if it comes at the expense of the tank's ONLY OTHER AVAILABLE WEAPON. I have an idea...how about we take the lightning staff and make THAT a TANKING weapon as well? How would you like that then? Its bad enough the elemental damage in this game is essentially the same between fire and lightning with different special effects and a few minor status condition differences.

Changing something based on what the majority of people think is a terrible way to change the game. What if the majority of people want a flying unicorn mount that kills all mobs by farting clouds of rainbow gas? The tyranny of the majority is still tyranny.

Starlock

I'm sorry... but... what the heck is an @name? Is this a PC thing? Do you mean our forum name or our gamertag? I don't understand.

Girl_Number8

Why not just use a poll on the forums and post topics to serve a full view of ideas?

Lord-Otto

josiahva wrote: »

Great...another thread for taking away part of the tanking tookit, since magicka DPS thinks they need a 3rd weapon, even if it comes at the expense of the tank's ONLY OTHER AVAILABLE WEAPON. I have an idea...how about we take the lightning staff and make THAT a TANKING weapon as well? How would you like that then? Its bad enough the elemental damage in this game is essentially the same between fire and lightning with different special effects and a few minor status condition differences.

I would recommend you to chill, but since we apparently took your frost staff... tough luck!

MartiniDaniels

According to show runners ice staff is just poor low effective option for newbie tanks a-la plague doctor and mighty chudan. All alpha tanks are suggested to use lightning staff if there is at least one stamina dps in the party.
So ZOS again failed to fight against the meta - frost mages get ripped of their frost weapon and tanks received rather clunky alternative to S&B, which can't be real alternative without analogue of puncture. And due to it's clunkiness min-maxers figured out that lightning staff or even bow can be a better option.

twing1_

I wish there was an option to open the door for both. I quite like your ideas in your other thread, that separates the taunt from frost staff heavy attacks (but gives it minor fracture/breach) and instead placing the taunt on another destruction staff skill's frost variant.

Ideally, these are the changes I would make (a lot of them from your initial thread):

Frost staff heavy attack = damage shield + minor fracture/breach, no taunt

Elemental susceptibility = affects enemy with major breach AND fracture

Frost clench = immobilizes the enemy and taunts the enemy (instead of immobilizing for longer)

Each of these changes opens up the door for both frost dps and frost tanking (as frost dps will be free to use heavy attacks to restore magicka without taunting and can also use frost reach to avoid the taunt on clench).

Elemental susceptibility being a taunt in itself I feel could be overpowered because it would completely out-class sword and board if this were the case (by essentially being a cost-free, ranged version of puncture). Separating the taunt from sources of major breach/fracture would require frost tanks to slot two skills instead of the singular sword and board skill (puncture) as a tradeoff.

That being said, if one or the other had to be chosen (damage or tank), I voted for tank.

Perhaps posting a link to your previous thread in the body of the post would provide some valuable (and quick) insight to other players about the different ideas that are currently out there.

Anhedonie

I hope frost staff will finally become useable for damage dealing. That half backed gimmick isn't working, clearly.

Masel

AndrewQ84 wrote: »

See, I would've done this, but I am not adding my @name to the survey. I do not want that info being used. The fact that it is required put me off right away. That being said, frost staff should remain for tanking and make it better suited for it.

I told him to do that, sorry. Back when i used to do the class rep forms, people entered their opinion up to 10 times in the same manner and clearing that up later on is difficult. So please fill out the survey if you're interested in the topic!

Starlock

I did the survey, but the binary poll really doesn't reflect my thinking.

I would like ice staves to be damage dealing weapons. However, I would only want ice staves shifted back to damage dealing weapons if a new skill line was created to retain staff-based tanking, such as alteration staves. I don't want staff tanking taken away, but I think it is an idea that would have been far better served by creating a new weapon line.

Artim_X

I almost voted for the damage changes, but then I remembered that I have 2 other staff types for specifically dealing damage and only one staff for utility (snares, immobilization, and a free taunt that can be incorporated into a rotation). It may not be bis, but imo it is a fun alternative to traditional tanking.

ESO_Nightingale

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Why not just use a poll on the forums and post topics to serve a full view of ideas?

The reason i didn't do this is because ive posted this survey to reddit and discord servers ETC.

ESO_Nightingale

twing1_ wrote: »

I wish there was an option to open the door for both. I quite like your ideas in your other thread, that separates the taunt from frost staff heavy attacks (but gives it minor fracture/breach) and instead placing the taunt on another destruction staff skill's frost variant.

Ideally, these are the changes I would make (a lot of them from your initial thread):

Frost staff heavy attack = damage shield + minor fracture/breach, no taunt

Elemental susceptibility = affects enemy with major breach AND fracture

Frost clench = immobilizes the enemy and taunts the enemy (instead of immobilizing for longer)

Each of these changes opens up the door for both frost dps and frost tanking (as frost dps will be free to use heavy attacks to restore magicka without taunting and can also use frost reach to avoid the taunt on clench).

Elemental susceptibility being a taunt in itself I feel could be overpowered because it would completely out-class sword and board if this were the case (by essentially being a cost-free, ranged version of puncture). Separating the taunt from sources of major breach/fracture would require frost tanks to slot two skills instead of the singular sword and board skill (puncture) as a tradeoff.

That being said, if one or the other had to be chosen (damage or tank), I voted for tank.

Perhaps posting a link to your previous thread in the body of the post would provide some valuable (and quick) insight to other players about the different ideas that are currently out there.

Worry not. Both ideas include something for the other side. And do share some ideas. For example, the elemental succeptibility rework idea is on the DPS idea too since tanks will still want to use a destruction staff backbar and its not fair to just completely rip it away from them. We are also messing around with the idea of implementing a short duration aoe immobilize on the pulsar morph instead of the oddly placed minor mangle. This would finally give templar and nightblade tanks an AoE immobilize. But would only come into effect on the dps side since we have rework plans for frost wall.

The_Yellow_King

Why not 1 additional destro staff passive that just says staves heavy attack taunt, irrespective of which type. This way tanks get added functionality and options (taunt with ANY staff, lots already tank with lightning anyway) and DPS get added functionality. Change the tri stat passivw to give ice staves some damage ability and keep the blocking costing magicka there. Hell i think as a mag dps I'd like blocking to come from my magicka pool.

This way nobody gives up anything and tanks can have more utility and dps can have more utility.

Artim_X

The_Yellow_King wrote: »

Why not 1 additional destro staff passive that just says staves heavy attack taunt, irrespective of which type. This way tanks get added functionality and options (taunt with ANY staff, lots already tank with lightning anyway) and DPS get added functionality. Change the tri stat passivw to give ice staves some damage ability and keep the blocking costing magicka there. Hell i think as a mag dps I'd like blocking to come from my magicka pool.

This way nobody gives up anything and tanks can have more utility and dps can have more utility.

You do realize that there are players who change their roles by simply changing their gear/skills. Your suggestion would force mag players who like tanking with a staff to only play a tank, since all of their staves regardless of type would taunt the enemy. It costs thousands of gold to reset a single passive, since it isn't a morph. Someone who likes switching up their roles will now have to waste a slot for inner fire, since taking your suggested passive would hinder their ability to be a mag dps. If a mag DPS is confusing the boss with their heavy attacks they deserve to be kicked.

Nerouyn

Are you kidding me?!

What is your Ingame @name? *

And while there's an option to say "I don't want to say" the survey won't actually let you choose that. Account name is required.

Your account name is literally half of what anyone needs to hack your account.

The reason forums have different user names to account login names (email) and account login names is for protection.

usmcjdking

The heavy attack taunt needs to go and Ice Staff should give like 1400ish pen.

Lake

Nerouyn wrote: »

Are you kidding me?!

What is your Ingame @name? *

And while there's an option to say "I don't want to say" the survey won't actually let you choose that. Account name is required.

Your account name is literally half of what anyone needs to hack your account.

The reason forums have different user names to account login names (email) and account login names is for protection.

Everyone can see your account name publicly in-game. Is it really that secret?

AlienatedGoat

I'd genuinely like frost staves to be overhauled to bring them in line with SnB, if they're going to stay a tanking weapon option:

• remove the taunt from the frost staff portion of the Trifocus passive, and add the taunt to the frost version of Destructive Touch in the Destruction Staff skill line (Destructive Reach will actually make this ranged taunt the exact same distance as Inner Fire).
• add Major Breach to both Destructive Touch morphs and Major Fracture to Destructive Clench (This will bring resistance debuffs of frost tanks in line with SnB).
• add a Minor Heroism buff to Trifocus when heavy attacking with frost staves (this will give frost tanks a similar ult regen compared to SnB tanks using Heroic Slash).

This is what I'd consider a good starting point for making frost tanking better.

idk

Derlfak wrote: »

Same as above. Maybe i'm just being paranoid, but i'd rather not need to put my @name. Dont see how it's relevant tbh

This A forum poll is nothing more than entertainment value anyhow since the sampling is not done in a proper manner. That discord, it's members, are not representative of the player base. I do not even have to look at it to grasp that.

AlienatedGoat

idk wrote: »

Derlfak wrote: »

Same as above. Maybe i'm just being paranoid, but i'd rather not need to put my @name. Dont see how it's relevant tbh

This A forum poll is nothing more than entertainment value anyhow since the sampling is not done in a proper manner. That discord, it's members, are not representative of the player base. I do not even have to look at it to grasp that.

You wouldn't want a sample of the player base anyway when it concerns intricate game mechanics. I'd be extremely confident in assuming that the majority of players have little to no knowledge about such things, based on various metrics I've seen over time that give insight into the average game participation of the wider player base. Since forum goers tend to be more learned in the game and its systems than your average player, it would be the natural place to go to poll for opinions on how to change them.

idk

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Derlfak wrote: »

Same as above. Maybe i'm just being paranoid, but i'd rather not need to put my @name. Dont see how it's relevant tbh

This A forum poll is nothing more than entertainment value anyhow since the sampling is not done in a proper manner. That discord, it's members, are not representative of the player base. I do not even have to look at it to grasp that.

You wouldn't want a sample of the player base anyway when it concerns intricate game mechanics. I'd be extremely confident in assuming that the majority of players have little to no knowledge about such things, based on various metrics I've seen over time that give insight into the average game participation of the wider player base. Since forum goers tend to be more learned in the game and its systems than your average player, it would be the natural place to go to poll for opinions on how to change them.

It is not a proper sample of any section of the player base. It is only a sampling of that discord if the survey is there and that group is not representative of he knowledgeable players.

Not that it matters, we cannot access the link for the survey as Zos seems to have found a possible security issue with the link and I do not care to join a discord on that pretends to be the authority on everything frost in the game.

JaZ2091

I dont mind frost staff but they need to increase the immunity to snares and immobilized.

D0PAMINE

Edit to remove malicious link...