Now guilds want 50k DPS parse on a 6M dummy: possible as magsorc?

WrathOfInnos

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yes, a friend of mine just broke 60k on a 6 mil. I’m sure he wouldn’t mind me posting the CMX here.

@WrathOfInnos
You know what jewelry traits were used here, and was that totally self buffed? His mean and max magic are close enough that I am guessing he has bound armor on both bars (or neither). Just wondering where he has room for Ele drain. I am topping out in the low 50s running my own drain, but I seem to be doing better with spell strat than mech acuity. Wondering if I am missing something.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw That was with Ele Drain supplied, but no orbs (just Ghastly Eyebowl). No Aegis or Inner Light. Not sure about jewelry traits used there, but I believe 3 Bloodthirsty is best.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yes, a friend of mine just broke 60k on a 6 mil. I’m sure he wouldn’t mind me posting the CMX here.

@WrathOfInnos
You know what jewelry traits were used here, and was that totally self buffed? His mean and max magic are close enough that I am guessing he has bound armor on both bars (or neither). Just wondering where he has room for Ele drain. I am topping out in the low 50s running my own drain, but I seem to be doing better with spell strat than mech acuity. Wondering if I am missing something.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw That was with Ele Drain supplied, but no orbs (just Ghastly Eyebowl). No Aegis or Inner Light. Not sure about jewelry traits used there, but I believe 3 Bloodthirsty is best.

@WrathOfInnos
Sounds about right with his magic. I also missed that he was actually running an execute. Endless fury is way down on the list. I have gone back and forth with and without an execute. An execute seems to be a more DPS, but barely. I am also getting best dummy results with 3 bloodthirsty. People have been talking about going with infused to play to their new reverse execute, but when I did that, I lost 3-4k DPS and it was very noticeable in actual fights that executes were taking a lot longer. Jury is still out about whether an execute is worth the slot (probably the first thing I drop if I need a utility skill), but I do think bloodthirsty is better than infused.

wishlist14

IzzyStardust wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Wavek wrote: »

Anything above 40k dps is completely unnecessary for any content in ESO. Unless they are specifically going for leaderboard runs there isnt any need for that high dps.

lol above 30k is MOOOOORE than enough for *everything* No lie.

But some guilds have higher requirements, for better scores, overall performance etc. Just don't join those particular guilds, or form your own.

Honestly no it isnt. 30k is probably too low to complete vas+2 or vcr+3. I missed where OP said vmol HM. I could understand an elitist guild asking for that.

Well we can agree to disagree then I guess, because people were clearing those with that, (non cheaters) and only a bare few people were making 50k back then. We talk the 600ish CP days - and people were certainly clearing VMOL HM well before that. 25k dps was a thing when VMOL was new.

That said, I still also respect and understand why people want those numbers; but 50k is still a pretty elite ask.

I agree 50k dps ask is too much. I always wondered why there was unnatainable content in rpgmmos that only leet players could aspire to achieve...I found out it was because aspiring players need celebrities to aspire to. I don't agree with content being too hard for the average player. Eso is sadly becoming very leetist imo. For me personally it feels like zos is trying so hard to impress the leet players that they always initially make vet content too difficult for the average good player. Let's be honest here, many players will be happy to reach 30k and also what you can do on a dummy that is standing still while you hit it over and over and do your full rotations is totally different in a trial with moving targets, aoe and intricate fight mechanics etc. So I dont believe in dummy parses.

BeefyMrTips

I see 4 problems with this parse from just the picture.

1. pet sorcs are not user friendly in high stakes trials, too much risk no matter how good the team is.
2. Most Ranged DPS will not be using Zaans, which is considered cheese
3. Most Mag DPS aren't capable of using siroria in Trials because the likelihood that you can keep up the proc 100% while maneuvering is slim to none.
4. This was probably closer to a raid parse versus solo. Anybody who knows Sorc knows that sustain is a huge issue. This guy only had 1500 Mag Regen and only used spell symmetry 3 times on a 6 mil? I don't think so, which means they were also being provided the minor 10% increase probably along with with other things.

This is still a good parse don't get me wrong, and not trying to call your friend out, but this parse cannot be taken seriously.

I believe Sorcs can definitely do 50k+ this patch. Using Crushing Shock, Mechanical Acuity, Skoria/Nerienth, and Spell Strategist in Murkmire Patch I can hit around 46k.

The only way Mechanical Acuity outperforms Mothers Sorrow is if you are using Crushing or other morph which keeps it pretty much 100% on proc.

WrathOfInnos

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I see 4 problems with this parse from just the picture.

1. pet sorcs are not user friendly in high stakes trials, too much risk no matter how good the team is.
2. Most Ranged DPS will not be using Zaans, which is considered cheese
3. Most Mag DPS aren't capable of using siroria in Trials because the likelihood that you can keep up the proc 100% while maneuvering is slim to none.
4. This was probably closer to a raid parse versus solo. Anybody who knows Sorc knows that sustain is a huge issue. This guy only had 1500 Mag Regen and only used spell symmetry 3 times on a 6 mil? I don't think so, which means they were also being provided the minor 10% increase probably along with with other things.

This is still a good parse don't get me wrong, and not trying to call your friend out, but this parse cannot be taken seriously.

I believe Sorcs can definitely do 50k+ this patch. Using Crushing Shock, Mechanical Acuity, Skoria/Nerienth, and Spell Strategist in Murkmire Patch I can hit around 46k.

The only way Mechanical Acuity outperforms Mothers Sorrow is if you are using Crushing or other morph which keeps it pretty much 100% on proc.

@BeefyMrTips

1. I’m not the biggest fan of pets, but they seem to be finally fixed in trials. I got Immortal Redeemer on a pet Sorc last night without any issues, and I’ve been running a Twilight Matriarch through vHoF TTT progression. The only remaining issue I’m aware of is that pets have to be resummoned before first boss in vMoL.

2 and 3. Definitely a melee parse with Zaan and Siroria, but still reasonable for representing trials fights like Varlarial, Ra Kota, or Rakkhat.

4. Sorc sustain is really bad, I agree completely. I don’t believe he had any Minor Intellect or Orbs, but he did use regen food. I think he may have also been using Rearming trap, which relieves Magicka sustain by using a stamina skill every 12s.

BeefyMrTips

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@BeefyMrTips

1. I’m not the biggest fan of pets, but they seem to be finally fixed in trials. I got Immortal Redeemer on a pet Sorc last night without any issues, and I’ve been running a Twilight Matriarch through vHoF TTT progression. The only remaining issue I’m aware of is that pets have to be resummoned before first boss in vMoL.

2 and 3. Definitely a melee parse with Zaan and Siroria, but still reasonable for representing trials fights like Varlarial, Ra Kota, or Rakkhat.

4. Sorc sustain is really bad, I agree completely. I don’t believe he had any Minor Intellect or Orbs, but he did use regen food. I think he may have also been using Rearming trap, which relieves Magicka sustain by using a stamina skill every 12s.

@WrathOfInnos

It sounds like you have an awesome trials guild that acknowledges pet sorcs as a great option. I myself enjoy them but know that many people don't like them because they find "Matriarchs Block Targeting if they are in the way" or "Mess with stacking because they pull enemies that haven't been taunted"

Im 100% for pet sorcs in trials but I understand the other side that isn't.

As for those melee distant fights, I forget PC can just swap out sets rather quickly whereas console it really creates a strain on Trial Time.

I could definitely see where on PC this is done.

As for Item 4, if rearming trap is used that would make more sense to me as to how they would keep so much uptime as well as help out with sustain, just didn't see it. It still is a stretch to imagine the ability of a sorc to sustain on a 6 mil without help and not running atro mundus but with the right enchantments here and there along with other previously mentioned items, I could see it.

I sometimes forget PC and Console live in the same but very different world of possibilities.

FrancisCrawford

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I see 4 problems with this parse from just the picture.

1. pet sorcs are not user friendly in high stakes trials, too much risk no matter how good the team is.
2. Most Ranged DPS will not be using Zaans, which is considered cheese
3. Most Mag DPS aren't capable of using siroria in Trials because the likelihood that you can keep up the proc 100% while maneuvering is slim to none.
4. This was probably closer to a raid parse versus solo. Anybody who knows Sorc knows that sustain is a huge issue. This guy only had 1500 Mag Regen and only used spell symmetry 3 times on a 6 mil? I don't think so, which means they were also being provided the minor 10% increase probably along with with other things.

This is still a good parse don't get me wrong, and not trying to call your friend out, but this parse cannot be taken seriously.

I believe Sorcs can definitely do 50k+ this patch. Using Crushing Shock, Mechanical Acuity, Skoria/Nerienth, and Spell Strategist in Murkmire Patch I can hit around 46k.

The only way Mechanical Acuity outperforms Mothers Sorrow is if you are using Crushing or other morph which keeps it pretty much 100% on proc.

@BeefyMrTips

1. I’m not the biggest fan of pets, but they seem to be finally fixed in trials. I got Immortal Redeemer on a pet Sorc last night without any issues, and I’ve been running a Twilight Matriarch through vHoF TTT progression. The only remaining issue I’m aware of is that pets have to be resummoned before first boss in vMoL.

2 and 3. Definitely a melee parse with Zaan and Siroria, but still reasonable for representing trials fights like Varlarial, Ra Kota, or Rakkhat.

4. Sorc sustain is really bad, I agree completely. I don’t believe he had any Minor Intellect or Orbs, but he did use regen food. I think he may have also been using Rearming trap, which relieves Magicka sustain by using a stamina skill every 12s.

It looks to me like Slimecraw would have been slightly more effective, if not worried about cheese. But if I understood the "Ghastly Eyebowl" reference directly -- well, what was max health likely to be for this build? Does one really run that low in endgame content?

60K is pretty awesome from where I sit, even if it turns out to be so cheesed that the Ghastly Eyebowl was a French Onion Soup.

WrathOfInnos

@BeefyMrTips Yeah, my main cores are pretty cool about trying new things. Shoutout to Nightfighters (Caravan Guards) and Factotum!

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I see 4 problems with this parse from just the picture.

1. pet sorcs are not user friendly in high stakes trials, too much risk no matter how good the team is.
2. Most Ranged DPS will not be using Zaans, which is considered cheese
3. Most Mag DPS aren't capable of using siroria in Trials because the likelihood that you can keep up the proc 100% while maneuvering is slim to none.
4. This was probably closer to a raid parse versus solo. Anybody who knows Sorc knows that sustain is a huge issue. This guy only had 1500 Mag Regen and only used spell symmetry 3 times on a 6 mil? I don't think so, which means they were also being provided the minor 10% increase probably along with with other things.

This is still a good parse don't get me wrong, and not trying to call your friend out, but this parse cannot be taken seriously.

I believe Sorcs can definitely do 50k+ this patch. Using Crushing Shock, Mechanical Acuity, Skoria/Nerienth, and Spell Strategist in Murkmire Patch I can hit around 46k.

The only way Mechanical Acuity outperforms Mothers Sorrow is if you are using Crushing or other morph which keeps it pretty much 100% on proc.

@BeefyMrTips

1. I’m not the biggest fan of pets, but they seem to be finally fixed in trials. I got Immortal Redeemer on a pet Sorc last night without any issues, and I’ve been running a Twilight Matriarch through vHoF TTT progression. The only remaining issue I’m aware of is that pets have to be resummoned before first boss in vMoL.

2 and 3. Definitely a melee parse with Zaan and Siroria, but still reasonable for representing trials fights like Varlarial, Ra Kota, or Rakkhat.

4. Sorc sustain is really bad, I agree completely. I don’t believe he had any Minor Intellect or Orbs, but he did use regen food. I think he may have also been using Rearming trap, which relieves Magicka sustain by using a stamina skill every 12s.

It looks to me like Slimecraw would have been slightly more effective, if not worried about cheese. But if I understood the "Ghastly Eyebowl" reference directly -- well, what was max health likely to be for this build? Does one really run that low in endgame content?

60K is pretty awesome from where I sit, even if it turns out to be so cheesed that the Ghastly Eyebowl was a French Onion Soup.

@FrancisCrawford Yeah, Ghastly Eyebowl is typically not recommended in trials. It was used more to simulate the effects of orbs/shards/worm. Although I have actually run Eyebowl in vCR+3 on a build where I was getting all my defense from high spell resistance and shields (more of a fun experiment than a meta Strat).

Merlin13KAGL

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I see 4 problems with this parse from just the picture.

1. pet sorcs are not user friendly in high stakes trials, too much risk no matter how good the team is.
2. Most Ranged DPS will not be using Zaans, which is considered cheese
3. Most Mag DPS aren't capable of using siroria in Trials because the likelihood that you can keep up the proc 100% while maneuvering is slim to none.
4. This was probably closer to a raid parse versus solo. Anybody who knows Sorc knows that sustain is a huge issue. This guy only had 1500 Mag Regen and only used spell symmetry 3 times on a 6 mil? I don't think so, which means they were also being provided the minor 10% increase probably along with with other things.

This is still a good parse don't get me wrong, and not trying to call your friend out, but this parse cannot be taken seriously.

I believe Sorcs can definitely do 50k+ this patch. Using Crushing Shock, Mechanical Acuity, Skoria/Nerienth, and Spell Strategist in Murkmire Patch I can hit around 46k.

The only way Mechanical Acuity outperforms Mothers Sorrow is if you are using Crushing or other morph which keeps it pretty much 100% on proc.

@BeefyMrTips

1. I’m not the biggest fan of pets, but they seem to be finally fixed in trials. I got Immortal Redeemer on a pet Sorc last night without any issues, and I’ve been running a Twilight Matriarch through vHoF TTT progression. The only remaining issue I’m aware of is that pets have to be resummoned before first boss in vMoL.

2 and 3. Definitely a melee parse with Zaan and Siroria, but still reasonable for representing trials fights like Varlarial, Ra Kota, or Rakkhat.

4. Sorc sustain is really bad, I agree completely. I don’t believe he had any Minor Intellect or Orbs, but he did use regen food. I think he may have also been using Rearming trap, which relieves Magicka sustain by using a stamina skill every 12s.

It looks to me like Slimecraw would have been slightly more effective, if not worried about cheese. But if I understood the "Ghastly Eyebowl" reference directly -- well, what was max health likely to be for this build? Does one really run that low in endgame content?

60K is pretty awesome from where I sit, even if it turns out to be so cheesed that the Ghastly Eyebowl was a French Onion Soup.

Eyebowl makes up for trials buffs, as far as sustain. Health is already higher due to pet presence.

Regarding the authenticity of the parse, bear in mind 90% crit's, which puts it about 45k with zero crits (never gonna be that low, of course).

It's an impressive parse, no doubt, but it's also an exceptional one in that it's not going to be the typical result.


EDIT: My own misunderstanding of the CMX layout.

LiquidPony

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I see 4 problems with this parse from just the picture.

1. pet sorcs are not user friendly in high stakes trials, too much risk no matter how good the team is.
2. Most Ranged DPS will not be using Zaans, which is considered cheese
3. Most Mag DPS aren't capable of using siroria in Trials because the likelihood that you can keep up the proc 100% while maneuvering is slim to none.
4. This was probably closer to a raid parse versus solo. Anybody who knows Sorc knows that sustain is a huge issue. This guy only had 1500 Mag Regen and only used spell symmetry 3 times on a 6 mil? I don't think so, which means they were also being provided the minor 10% increase probably along with with other things.

This is still a good parse don't get me wrong, and not trying to call your friend out, but this parse cannot be taken seriously.

I believe Sorcs can definitely do 50k+ this patch. Using Crushing Shock, Mechanical Acuity, Skoria/Nerienth, and Spell Strategist in Murkmire Patch I can hit around 46k.

The only way Mechanical Acuity outperforms Mothers Sorrow is if you are using Crushing or other morph which keeps it pretty much 100% on proc.

@BeefyMrTips

1. I’m not the biggest fan of pets, but they seem to be finally fixed in trials. I got Immortal Redeemer on a pet Sorc last night without any issues, and I’ve been running a Twilight Matriarch through vHoF TTT progression. The only remaining issue I’m aware of is that pets have to be resummoned before first boss in vMoL.

2 and 3. Definitely a melee parse with Zaan and Siroria, but still reasonable for representing trials fights like Varlarial, Ra Kota, or Rakkhat.

4. Sorc sustain is really bad, I agree completely. I don’t believe he had any Minor Intellect or Orbs, but he did use regen food. I think he may have also been using Rearming trap, which relieves Magicka sustain by using a stamina skill every 12s.

It looks to me like Slimecraw would have been slightly more effective, if not worried about cheese. But if I understood the "Ghastly Eyebowl" reference directly -- well, what was max health likely to be for this build? Does one really run that low in endgame content?

60K is pretty awesome from where I sit, even if it turns out to be so cheesed that the Ghastly Eyebowl was a French Onion Soup.

Eyebowl makes up for trials buffs, as far as sustain. Health is already higher due to pet presence.

Regarding the authenticity of the parse, bear in mind 90% crit's, which puts it about 45k with zero crits (never gonna be that low, of course).

It's an impressive parse, no doubt, but it's also an exceptional one in that it's not going to be the typical result.

@Merlin13KAGL where are you getting "90% crits" from? The parse posted in this thread had a 55.6% critical hit rate ...

Merlin13KAGL

@LiquidPony Mean Crit Damge shows 90.9% right about spell Pen and below the 58.2% Spell Crit.

If I'm understanding it correctly, the 58.2 is the character sheet tool tip, the 90, in this case, being the actual resulting Crit %.

~60% theoretical crit % chance, 90% actual resulting crits for this actual parse?

(Saying it appears to have been several very lucky crits.)

Am I reading the parse wrong, or does CMX still not register Acuity properly?

EDIT: Is that the damage multiplier I'm looking at vs actual resulting crit% for a given parse?

Danksta

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@LiquidPony Mean Crit Damge shows 90.9% right about spell Pen and below the 58.2% Spell Crit.

If I'm understanding it correctly, the 58.2 is the character sheet tool tip, the 90, in this case, being the actual resulting Crit %.

~60% theoretical crit % chance, 90% actual resulting crits for this actual parse?

(Saying it appears to have been several very lucky crits.)

Am I reading the parse wrong, or does CMX still not register Acuity properly?

EDIT: Is that the damage multiplier I'm looking at vs actual resulting crit% for a given parse?

That's the crit damage multiplier. 55.6% was the resulting crits.

Merlin13KAGL

Thankyou, @Danksta . That changes things considerably, as 50%+ crit hits, esp with MA involved, are quite reasonable.

itsfatbass

Most guild's SHOULD NOT require 50k +. We have been able to beat ALL content including competitive leaderboard runs with 40k or even less and nothing has changed in regards to boss health or difficulty of anything, so if a guild is requiring you to push more than that, they're just simply flexing their e-peens and not being realistic at all.

Lord-Otto

@Vahrokh
Did a sloppy dps test on the 3M and breached 50k easily. No orbs, Drain or Ghastly Eye Bowl, just myself and a lot of resources left. With said crutches it should be possible to do it on the 6M. Just... absolute overkill. Not needed for trials.

PaddyVu

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yes, a friend of mine just broke 60k on a 6 mil. I’m sure he wouldn’t mind me posting the CMX here.

This is wrong, false information, pls explain why zaan hit for 17k max dmg? I'm using gold zaan and have 12k spell pen with full 100 thaumaturge and 100 elemental expert and it only hit for 13k max

PaddyVu

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yes, a friend of mine just broke 60k on a 6 mil. I’m sure he wouldn’t mind me posting the CMX here.

There's too many of debuff or buff at your list,so i consider it's not self buff,mine is around 15-16 buff and debuff but in your cmx look like u have 35-40

Jierdanit

PaddyVu wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yes, a friend of mine just broke 60k on a 6 mil. I’m sure he wouldn’t mind me posting the CMX here.

There's too many of debuff or buff at your list,so i consider it's not self buff,mine is around 15-16 buff and debuff but in your cmx look like u have 35-40

you know that that cmx is nearly 2 years old tho? lol

Grianasteri

People simply dont have the attitude that allows for groups to actually play some mechanics through, with teamwork and progression, because it takes time.

Instead, and this is the case in trials and dungeons, people have gotten used to skipping mechanics, simply burning their way through them with high DPS. Frankly I do not think that is healthy, power creep is off the scale and its not been managed well at all.

Just a couple of years ago, 40k dps on a 6m dummy was seen as very good, high dps. Think about that. Most end game guilds wont give you the time of day with 40k.

For score pushing I know some guilds wont allow any dps in the group without at least 85k dps on a 21m dummy. That means what they are asking for, for their raids, is the very best of the best dps players. Fair enough, but its a bit of a shame for us mere mortals who are stuck with dps way way below this.

Danksta

Grianasteri wrote: »

People simply dont have the attitude that allows for groups to actually play some mechanics through, with teamwork and progression, because it takes time.

Instead, and this is the case in trials and dungeons, people have gotten used to skipping mechanics, simply burning their way through them with high DPS. Frankly I do not think that is healthy, power creep is off the scale and its not been managed well at all.

Just a couple of years ago, 40k dps on a 6m dummy was seen as very good, high dps. Think about that. Most end game guilds wont give you the time of day with 40k.

For score pushing I know some guilds wont allow any dps in the group without at least 85k dps on a 21m dummy. That means what they are asking for, for their raids, is the very best of the best dps players. Fair enough, but its a bit of a shame for us mere mortals who are stuck with dps way way below this.

Can't push scores with mediocre DPS, makes sense to me.

Danksta

PaddyVu wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yes, a friend of mine just broke 60k on a 6 mil. I’m sure he wouldn’t mind me posting the CMX here.

There's too many of debuff or buff at your list,so i consider it's not self buff,mine is around 15-16 buff and debuff but in your cmx look like u have 35-40

20 of the buffs are from each Siroria stack so I'm pretty sure it's solo, maybe some applying ele drain.

Sevn

ccfeeling wrote: »

Maybe they can only complete the HM with 50k dps

I'm really curious, why are these guilds considered elite if they are just skipping mechanics meant to test their skills?

Removing the hurdles from a hurdles race kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?

Or is the end result the only thing that matters and not how victory is achieved?

Purely curious

colossalvoids

Sevn wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Maybe they can only complete the HM with 50k dps

I'm really curious, why are these guilds considered elite if they are just skipping mechanics meant to test their skills?

Removing the hurdles from a hurdles race kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?

Or is the end result the only thing that matters and not how victory is achieved?

Purely curious

They're considered "elite" by some because they can do things others can't to simply put it. As an average player my best vas hm time was like 8 mins a year ago, now wr is 2:40 and ordinary burns are around 4-5 mins if I'm not mistaken? It takes way more skill to actually coordinate and play like this, with all the pre-buff gear swaps that can fail horribly, tactics experimentation and extra micromanagement than just follow same mechanics over and over again which are nothing special really after couple of successful runs.

Danksta

Sevn wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Maybe they can only complete the HM with 50k dps

I'm really curious, why are these guilds considered elite if they are just skipping mechanics meant to test their skills?

Removing the hurdles from a hurdles race kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?

Or is the end result the only thing that matters and not how victory is achieved?

Purely curious

Highest DPS groups make sacrifices for that DPS. It doesn't always make the fight easier.

ZOS_ConnorG

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