This is allarming - Sieges

WuffyCerulei

The bugged siege isn't here to stay. It is getting fixed Monday. Zos does NOT intend to keep it in game, but rather are considering increasing the damage of sieges in the F U T U R E.

yodased

If all you mlgpro players only want player vs player, then when imperial city is its own campaign we will not be seeing you in open world anymore right?

Cause no siege, only skill matters. For that matter why are any of you still playing in openworld?

You want only skilled pvp go into the sewers.

Funny its only the tower farmers and "small man" who are upset about this.

Trancestor

Had a 1v4 against some scrubs who couldnt kill me for about 10 minutes, i killed 2 of them who later got rezd by their healbot, id probably eventually kill them all but in one moment i didnt pay attention to the healbot setting up a coldfire balista and boom im dead in 1 second...yeah keep the siege bug. The zergs consisting of terrible players need more ways to hit one button to win, just snipe is not enough.

Aldul

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Leave siege the way it is. Please. This is significantly reducing lag by sending all the baddie ball groups back to resurrect.

this is also sucessfully used against "groups" of 1 player...
2 coldfire siege tics -> insta kill ? working as intended, @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

Baphomet

Seige needed a little damage buff, but this is a little too much.

I thought ZOS learned the lesson in that old patch where seige one-shotted people.

Reduce the recent buff but 50% and I think we have something good.

Tajich

The question is how do you defend yourself on any level at the moment in pvp? After this update, 50k resistance seems to be meaningless.

Checkmath

I saw people being happy with the current sieges and claim, that standing in red is stupid and should be punished. I see from what point of view you are coming from, but I do not agree with regarding that statement in most of the cases.

I agree with you in the case, that you are standing in front of the keep and there is one guy on the wall with a siege. You are far away, there are no guards and you got all the time to watch the projectile fire and the red circle growing. In that case, you are right, you should be punished, when you let that projectile hit you.

Now why are so many people complaining about it then? Because above described situation is not the norm. Sure it happens and you can troll those siegers by taking one step to the side and let that projectile miss you.

But as said, above described situation is not the norm. And in most other cases those sieges get really annoying and too strong.

Normally if you stand in front of a keep, there is not only one guy on the wall firing a ballista, but several. And if 6 ballistas are aimed at you, all slightly at different locations, it will get much more difficult to evade the combined area of effect and you will get hit very fast, since neither sprinting nor dodging will get you out of the area of effect of several sieges.

Still it can get more annoying. In most cases, where you are outnumbered/challenged (the situation small scalers and solo players seek to challenge themselves) you have lots of different things you have to pay attention to. It can be guards stunning you, rooting or slowing you or generally just fighting you and doing damage to you (which will make you face the guards to fight back and therefore facing away from sieges), which draws your attention away from the enemies sieges. Just adding here, that max level guards in no cp pvp are not always easy to deal with anyway.

Still this is not the end. You also can face enemy players, which normally require your full attention, especially when they are not bad ones. IN such cases one simple guy with a siege weapon can ruin everything (same goes for snipers and gankers). Why can they ruin everything you ask? Because they have the opportunity to deal very high damage from a save spot or distance, basically with minimal effort and minimal risk.

Yes, solo and small scale players seek outnumbered situations, where they are numerical at a disadvantage. Because it is challenging them. The problem with the current sieges, proc sets and snipers is, that it shifts the actual odds of winning for the small scaler away from him without without any fair reason. The enemy people take low risks and low skill requirement to get a massive effect, a massive advantage over the actually being superior enemy.

You see a guy fighting a magicka dk tank, which controls the guys movement nicely by slowing him, rooting him and stunning him. The fight would take some time as is, since the tank absorb the damage nicely, but also does not really damage that one guy. Still the guy didnt notice you yet, since he focussed on the fight with the dk tank. Then you place a ballista, fire one shot and the guy dies, because the current damage of sieges is broken. Now did you really earn that kill? Did you actually fight the guy? Well it surely was a clever idea, but skillless, unfair and broken. Also would you have been able to hit him with the ballista, if the guy had seen you or if the dk wouldnt have taken his whole attention? Or maybe you could only hit him, because the dk tank rooted him or stunned him the very same moment?

Well those are questions most of you guys actually do not consider when using sieges.

A small example of my own experience. I normally play solo, seek situations like being outnumbered in a resource tower (there I can by good positioning outweight the enemies number to some extent).

I turned fort Ash's farm. Soon after three yellows turned up, one of them starting to siege the resource guards, That one guy placed like three ballistas firing at me and the guards (the guards obviously died very fast). the other two guys started to fight me, so I went back into the tower and kited those three guys for a bit. Soon 2 of them get annoyed and left, the third guy still with his sieges now firing into the tower was being backed up by the new spawned yellow guards. Still i was able to kill him.

Later that day, I went back to the again yellow farm of fort Ash. The resource guards levelled up and as soon I approached the guards, I already saw this guy again placing ballistas. I therefore went into the tower, where I for the moment was safe from the trajectory of the sieges. Still the no cp guards followed me in there and did quite the job taking my attention. Now the enemy player placed overall 3 ballistas to hit every angle of the tower, but kept some safe distance to me. I managed to kite it for some while, but then I took some unlucky ballista shot stunned inside an NPC negate. As a magicka templar I couldnt heal nor cleanse, and stamina was low since no cp pvp is very unforgiving there. I melted unable to do anything.

Some time later the DC faction advanced a bit against the yellows, so I rode for the farm at Roebeck. I killed the guards and started to turn the flags. Before the flag was turned half, the same guy with 4 friends arrived and I retreated into the tower, since that one guy already put down a ballista and I knew i could not stay outside, fight 4 players and take care of the ballista projectile. I went on the first level, backside of the tower and placed one fire ballista down (I was curious, how much I could do with it and also wanted to show that one guy how disgusting it will be, when it succeeds, since he was very proud of his win back then). All 5 people died solely by getting hit with my ballista, I only had to add some little bit of execute damage here or there. It was just too effective. I did not really feel, that I earned those kills, since it was my easiest 1v5 in my whole life so far. Immediatly after that guy from before died to my ballista, he whispered me only in capitol letters: How I dare to steal his "build".

This example should show, how disgusting the current state of siege weapons is:
- The damage is too high
- People using sieges normally do not take any risk to deal immense damage (from far away, from keep walls or when the enemy is occupied with guards or other players)
- Using sieges do not require much skill and are therefore too efficient
- Evading the area of effect of sieges can be very difficult in most of situations due to facing enemy players, evading other effects or facing guards
- Being killed by sieges is unsatisfactory, since there is not much counterplay currently and maybe you got killed in a situation, which you normally would have survived
- Killing people with sieges do not really grant satisfaction, because the current mechanics are broken and far too strong
- Individuals gain power, they normally do not possess (bad players can take out good players, good players can take out far too many bad players by themselves)

Skander

I got negated once when i saw a coldfire balista trown at me


The horror The horror

Tirone

the siege changes (or bug?) are completely ***. it seems no skill/low risk - high reward is the way ZOS like to go...

alexthomp92

Checkmath wrote: »

I saw people being happy with the current sieges and claim, that standing in red is stupid and should be punished. I see from what point of view you are coming from, but I do not agree with regarding that statement in most of the cases.

I agree with you in the case, that you are standing in front of the keep and there is one guy on the wall with a siege. You are far away, there are no guards and you got all the time to watch the projectile fire and the red circle growing. In that case, you are right, you should be punished, when you let that projectile hit you.

Now why are so many people complaining about it then? Because above described situation is not the norm. Sure it happens and you can troll those siegers by taking one step to the side and let that projectile miss you.

But as said, above described situation is not the norm. And in most other cases those sieges get really annoying and too strong.

Normally if you stand in front of a keep, there is not only one guy on the wall firing a ballista, but several. And if 6 ballistas are aimed at you, all slightly at different locations, it will get much more difficult to evade the combined area of effect and you will get hit very fast, since neither sprinting nor dodging will get you out of the area of effect of several sieges.

Still it can get more annoying. In most cases, where you are outnumbered/challenged (the situation small scalers and solo players seek to challenge themselves) you have lots of different things you have to pay attention to. It can be guards stunning you, rooting or slowing you or generally just fighting you and doing damage to you (which will make you face the guards to fight back and therefore facing away from sieges), which draws your attention away from the enemies sieges. Just adding here, that max level guards in no cp pvp are not always easy to deal with anyway.

Still this is not the end. You also can face enemy players, which normally require your full attention, especially when they are not bad ones. IN such cases one simple guy with a siege weapon can ruin everything (same goes for snipers and gankers). Why can they ruin everything you ask? Because they have the opportunity to deal very high damage from a save spot or distance, basically with minimal effort and minimal risk.

Yes, solo and small scale players seek outnumbered situations, where they are numerical at a disadvantage. Because it is challenging them. The problem with the current sieges, proc sets and snipers is, that it shifts the actual odds of winning for the small scaler away from him without without any fair reason. The enemy people take low risks and low skill requirement to get a massive effect, a massive advantage over the actually being superior enemy.

You see a guy fighting a magicka dk tank, which controls the guys movement nicely by slowing him, rooting him and stunning him. The fight would take some time as is, since the tank absorb the damage nicely, but also does not really damage that one guy. Still the guy didnt notice you yet, since he focussed on the fight with the dk tank. Then you place a ballista, fire one shot and the guy dies, because the current damage of sieges is broken. Now did you really earn that kill? Did you actually fight the guy? Well it surely was a clever idea, but skillless, unfair and broken. Also would you have been able to hit him with the ballista, if the guy had seen you or if the dk wouldnt have taken his whole attention? Or maybe you could only hit him, because the dk tank rooted him or stunned him the very same moment?

Well those are questions most of you guys actually do not consider when using sieges.

A small example of my own experience. I normally play solo, seek situations like being outnumbered in a resource tower (there I can by good positioning outweight the enemies number to some extent).

I turned fort Ash's farm. Soon after three yellows turned up, one of them starting to siege the resource guards, That one guy placed like three ballistas firing at me and the guards (the guards obviously died very fast). the other two guys started to fight me, so I went back into the tower and kited those three guys for a bit. Soon 2 of them get annoyed and left, the third guy still with his sieges now firing into the tower was being backed up by the new spawned yellow guards. Still i was able to kill him.

Later that day, I went back to the again yellow farm of fort Ash. The resource guards levelled up and as soon I approached the guards, I already saw this guy again placing ballistas. I therefore went into the tower, where I for the moment was safe from the trajectory of the sieges. Still the no cp guards followed me in there and did quite the job taking my attention. Now the enemy player placed overall 3 ballistas to hit every angle of the tower, but kept some safe distance to me. I managed to kite it for some while, but then I took some unlucky ballista shot stunned inside an NPC negate. As a magicka templar I couldnt heal nor cleanse, and stamina was low since no cp pvp is very unforgiving there. I melted unable to do anything.

Some time later the DC faction advanced a bit against the yellows, so I rode for the farm at Roebeck. I killed the guards and started to turn the flags. Before the flag was turned half, the same guy with 4 friends arrived and I retreated into the tower, since that one guy already put down a ballista and I knew i could not stay outside, fight 4 players and take care of the ballista projectile. I went on the first level, backside of the tower and placed one fire ballista down (I was curious, how much I could do with it and also wanted to show that one guy how disgusting it will be, when it succeeds, since he was very proud of his win back then). All 5 people died solely by getting hit with my ballista, I only had to add some little bit of execute damage here or there. It was just too effective. I did not really feel, that I earned those kills, since it was my easiest 1v5 in my whole life so far. Immediatly after that guy from before died to my ballista, he whispered me only in capitol letters: How I dare to steal his "build".

This example should show, how disgusting the current state of siege weapons is:
- The damage is too high
- People using sieges normally do not take any risk to deal immense damage (from far away, from keep walls or when the enemy is occupied with guards or other players)
- Using sieges do not require much skill and are therefore too efficient
- Evading the area of effect of sieges can be very difficult in most of situations due to facing enemy players, evading other effects or facing guards
- Being killed by sieges is unsatisfactory, since there is not much counterplay currently and maybe you got killed in a situation, which you normally would have survived
- Killing people with sieges do not really grant satisfaction, because the current mechanics are broken and far too strong
- Individuals gain power, they normally do not possess (bad players can take out good players, good players can take out far too many bad players by themselves)

@Checkmath 4 EMP

Merlight

Trancestor wrote: »

Had a 1v4 against some scrubs who couldnt kill me for about 10 minutes, i killed 2 of them who later got rezd by their healbot, id probably eventually kill them all but in one moment i didnt pay attention to the healbot setting up a coldfire balista and boom im dead in 1 second...yeah keep the siege bug.

Hey, you took one for greater good. Losing 1vX as collateral damage to actual siege battles becoming more tactical, is well worth it imo.

Trancestor wrote: »

The zergs consisting of terrible players need more ways to hit one button to win, just snipe is not enough.

They're the ones who die the most to siege fire, and lose more often now.

frostz417

SirAndy wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

.. Pvp should require skill ...

Agreed, PvP should require skill.

Which is why i welcome this bug so much. No more standing next to your trebuchet inside several overlapping red circles while casually looking at your map waiting to send off your next shot.

Y'all need to up your game and get off your lazy arse and slot a purge and start moving around ...

This argument is hardly even valid and doesn’t even support anything.... are you talking about pug Zergs that siege or ball groups? Because both don’t fit your perception.

Checkmath

alexthomp92 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

I saw people being happy with the current sieges and claim, that standing in red is stupid and should be punished. I see from what point of view you are coming from, but I do not agree with regarding that statement in most of the cases.

I agree with you in the case, that you are standing in front of the keep and there is one guy on the wall with a siege. You are far away, there are no guards and you got all the time to watch the projectile fire and the red circle growing. In that case, you are right, you should be punished, when you let that projectile hit you.

Now why are so many people complaining about it then? Because above described situation is not the norm. Sure it happens and you can troll those siegers by taking one step to the side and let that projectile miss you.

But as said, above described situation is not the norm. And in most other cases those sieges get really annoying and too strong.

Normally if you stand in front of a keep, there is not only one guy on the wall firing a ballista, but several. And if 6 ballistas are aimed at you, all slightly at different locations, it will get much more difficult to evade the combined area of effect and you will get hit very fast, since neither sprinting nor dodging will get you out of the area of effect of several sieges.

Still it can get more annoying. In most cases, where you are outnumbered/challenged (the situation small scalers and solo players seek to challenge themselves) you have lots of different things you have to pay attention to. It can be guards stunning you, rooting or slowing you or generally just fighting you and doing damage to you (which will make you face the guards to fight back and therefore facing away from sieges), which draws your attention away from the enemies sieges. Just adding here, that max level guards in no cp pvp are not always easy to deal with anyway.

Still this is not the end. You also can face enemy players, which normally require your full attention, especially when they are not bad ones. IN such cases one simple guy with a siege weapon can ruin everything (same goes for snipers and gankers). Why can they ruin everything you ask? Because they have the opportunity to deal very high damage from a save spot or distance, basically with minimal effort and minimal risk.

Yes, solo and small scale players seek outnumbered situations, where they are numerical at a disadvantage. Because it is challenging them. The problem with the current sieges, proc sets and snipers is, that it shifts the actual odds of winning for the small scaler away from him without without any fair reason. The enemy people take low risks and low skill requirement to get a massive effect, a massive advantage over the actually being superior enemy.

You see a guy fighting a magicka dk tank, which controls the guys movement nicely by slowing him, rooting him and stunning him. The fight would take some time as is, since the tank absorb the damage nicely, but also does not really damage that one guy. Still the guy didnt notice you yet, since he focussed on the fight with the dk tank. Then you place a ballista, fire one shot and the guy dies, because the current damage of sieges is broken. Now did you really earn that kill? Did you actually fight the guy? Well it surely was a clever idea, but skillless, unfair and broken. Also would you have been able to hit him with the ballista, if the guy had seen you or if the dk wouldnt have taken his whole attention? Or maybe you could only hit him, because the dk tank rooted him or stunned him the very same moment?

Well those are questions most of you guys actually do not consider when using sieges.

A small example of my own experience. I normally play solo, seek situations like being outnumbered in a resource tower (there I can by good positioning outweight the enemies number to some extent).

I turned fort Ash's farm. Soon after three yellows turned up, one of them starting to siege the resource guards, That one guy placed like three ballistas firing at me and the guards (the guards obviously died very fast). the other two guys started to fight me, so I went back into the tower and kited those three guys for a bit. Soon 2 of them get annoyed and left, the third guy still with his sieges now firing into the tower was being backed up by the new spawned yellow guards. Still i was able to kill him.

Later that day, I went back to the again yellow farm of fort Ash. The resource guards levelled up and as soon I approached the guards, I already saw this guy again placing ballistas. I therefore went into the tower, where I for the moment was safe from the trajectory of the sieges. Still the no cp guards followed me in there and did quite the job taking my attention. Now the enemy player placed overall 3 ballistas to hit every angle of the tower, but kept some safe distance to me. I managed to kite it for some while, but then I took some unlucky ballista shot stunned inside an NPC negate. As a magicka templar I couldnt heal nor cleanse, and stamina was low since no cp pvp is very unforgiving there. I melted unable to do anything.

Some time later the DC faction advanced a bit against the yellows, so I rode for the farm at Roebeck. I killed the guards and started to turn the flags. Before the flag was turned half, the same guy with 4 friends arrived and I retreated into the tower, since that one guy already put down a ballista and I knew i could not stay outside, fight 4 players and take care of the ballista projectile. I went on the first level, backside of the tower and placed one fire ballista down (I was curious, how much I could do with it and also wanted to show that one guy how disgusting it will be, when it succeeds, since he was very proud of his win back then). All 5 people died solely by getting hit with my ballista, I only had to add some little bit of execute damage here or there. It was just too effective. I did not really feel, that I earned those kills, since it was my easiest 1v5 in my whole life so far. Immediatly after that guy from before died to my ballista, he whispered me only in capitol letters: How I dare to steal his "build".

This example should show, how disgusting the current state of siege weapons is:
- The damage is too high
- People using sieges normally do not take any risk to deal immense damage (from far away, from keep walls or when the enemy is occupied with guards or other players)
- Using sieges do not require much skill and are therefore too efficient
- Evading the area of effect of sieges can be very difficult in most of situations due to facing enemy players, evading other effects or facing guards
- Being killed by sieges is unsatisfactory, since there is not much counterplay currently and maybe you got killed in a situation, which you normally would have survived
- Killing people with sieges do not really grant satisfaction, because the current mechanics are broken and far too strong
- Individuals gain power, they normally do not possess (bad players can take out good players, good players can take out far too many bad players by themselves)

@Checkmath 4 EMP

What do you mean with that? Already got the emp title and the costume, but permanent emp bonuses would be nice....

alexthomp92

@Checkmath 4 EMP [/quote]

What do you mean with that? Already got the emp title and the costume, but permanent emp bonuses would be nice....[/quote]

Maybe it's just an Xbox EU thing, you should lead us as you have delivered the point exactly, could you imagine the knock on effect on small scale if siege became stronger?

I often find that in almost all situations larger groups of players always set up siege and avoid any active combat of any sort.

A few weeks ago I had a decent 5 man going and we would encounter groups moving between keeps, wipe them and move towards to the next closest enemy keep, the group we had killed was waiting at the keep with meat bags fire ballistas and oil before we had even attempted to siege, their group 6 times larger than ours, their keep not flagged, do you think they would push out though? No. They just sat there and fired their weapons at us.

The problem is that this is far too common an occurrence and increasing the potency of siege would have dire consequences for any form of small group play.

darkblue5

I'll preface my responses by agreeing ahead of time that the siege bug should definitely be fixed come Monday and the coming potential buff to siege should probably only apply to CP campaigns or at least be a smaller buff to non-CP siege. But I disagree overall on the effect of siege on Cyrodiil, especially in CP Cyrodiil where it is more survivable. My opinion in short is that it has shifted around the fights in Cyrodiil, and has especially in prime time has resulted in more small scale opportunities where I can kill who I can, and learn from (die from) more skilled PVPers. Even as the siege changes result in the kind of demoralizing seeming fights described, I don't believe that there is in fact a decrease overall in quality small scale encounters.

My difference experiences and thus different opinion may come in part from playing much more this week in NA Vivec than NA Sotha Sil.

Checkmath wrote: »

...Normally if you stand in front of a keep, there is not only one guy on the wall firing a ballista, but several. And if 6 ballistas are aimed at you, all slightly at different locations, it will get much more difficult to evade the combined area of effect and you will get hit very fast, since neither sprinting nor dodging will get you out of the area of effect of several sieges.

Why are you standing in front of a keep and having 6 sieges aimed at you? Fighting up next to a keep, especially an unflagged keep, was already correlated with not surviving and now it is worse. And when did they put these siege up and why did you stay or enter this area? I don't understand this example.

...

Still this is not the end. You also can face enemy players, which normally require your full attention, especially when they are not bad ones. IN such cases one simple guy with a siege weapon can ruin everything (same goes for snipers and gankers). Why can they ruin everything you ask? Because they have the opportunity to deal very high damage from a save spot or distance, basically with minimal effort and minimal risk.

Yes, solo and small scale players seek outnumbered situations, where they are numerical at a disadvantage. Because it is challenging them. The problem with the current sieges, proc sets and snipers is, that it shifts the actual odds of winning for the small scaler away from him without without any fair reason. The enemy people take low risks and low skill requirement to get a massive effect, a massive advantage over the actually being superior enemy.

Siege usage is far from no risk in open fields and you can always retreat from overwhelming odds. Standing in a field firing at someone in a half populated campaign is a great invitation to get ganked especially by seige. In the last few days I've killed a good number of people on siege firing at small scale players by sneaking up behind them and ganking the Coldfire user with a Coldfire. That's when I didn't just gank them normally despite not using a ganking build. But, ah, ganking and sniping as well are unfair fighters as well! Luckily there are many many counter measures to gankers and snipe's desyncs are being addressed. Gankers of all stripes have been so stripped of power over the years that they can't secure kills on decent players period without either lag or some sort of diversion and countermeasures have been so strong that once found you rarely last long.

You see a guy fighting a magicka dk tank, which controls the guys movement nicely by slowing him, rooting him and stunning him. The fight would take some time as is, since the tank absorb the damage nicely, but also does not really damage that one guy. Still the guy didnt notice you yet, since he focussed on the fight with the dk tank. Then you place a ballista, fire one shot and the guy dies, because the current damage of sieges is broken. Now did you really earn that kill? Did you actually fight the guy? Well it surely was a clever idea, but skillless, unfair and broken. Also would you have been able to hit him with the ballista, if the guy had seen you or if the dk wouldnt have taken his whole attention? Or maybe you could only hit him, because the dk tank rooted him or stunned him the very same moment?

In this case both the guy might consider lowering his tankiness and getting a faster potential TTK as well as continuing to fight better people in order to get better. But in this case a PVE character in heavy impen spamming bow light attacks would also secure the kill somewhat faster in a way they "don't deserve". In this case the DK might even consider their build a success, essentially winning the fight against opponents while letting another character technically secure the kill. A cheap win with a ballista would always be the same as a cheap win with any other killing technique in this particular example, it puts everyone involved out of the misery of a fight that has already concluded but won't finish anytime soon.

Well those are questions most of you guys actually do not consider when using sieges.

A small example of my own experience. I normally play solo, seek situations like being outnumbered in a resource tower (there I can by good positioning outweight the enemies number to some extent).

I turned fort Ash's farm. Soon after three yellows turned up, one of them starting to siege the resource guards, That one guy placed like three ballistas firing at me and the guards (the guards obviously died very fast). the other two guys started to fight me, so I went back into the tower and kited those three guys for a bit. Soon 2 of them get annoyed and left, the third guy still with his sieges now firing into the tower was being backed up by the new spawned yellow guards. Still i was able to kill him.

Later that day, I went back to the again yellow farm of fort Ash. The resource guards levelled up and as soon I approached the guards, I already saw this guy again placing ballistas. I therefore went into the tower, where I for the moment was safe from the trajectory of the sieges. Still the no cp guards followed me in there and did quite the job taking my attention. Now the enemy player placed overall 3 ballistas to hit every angle of the tower, but kept some safe distance to me. I managed to kite it for some while, but then I took some unlucky ballista shot stunned inside an NPC negate. As a magicka templar I couldnt heal nor cleanse, and stamina was low since no cp pvp is very unforgiving there. I melted unable to do anything.

Some time later the DC faction advanced a bit against the yellows, so I rode for the farm at Roebeck. I killed the guards and started to turn the flags. Before the flag was turned half, the same guy with 4 friends arrived and I retreated into the tower, since that one guy already put down a ballista and I knew i could not stay outside, fight 4 players and take care of the ballista projectile. I went on the first level, backside of the tower and placed one fire ballista down (I was curious, how much I could do with it and also wanted to show that one guy how disgusting it will be, when it succeeds, since he was very proud of his win back then). All 5 people died solely by getting hit with my ballista, I only had to add some little bit of execute damage here or there. It was just too effective. I did not really feel, that I earned those kills, since it was my easiest 1v5 in my whole life so far. Immediatly after that guy from before died to my ballista, he whispered me only in capitol letters: How I dare to steal his "build".

Partially this is because of how the bugged siege in no-CP is much more op than it is in CP, but the whole situation is someone going into combat knowing they have an unfair advantage and the only reason the more skilled player didn't win every time is a particular instance of bad luck. The fact that the ballistas made the decision to fight at the resource a worse one is honestly a nerf to one particular side of small scale that must be balanced by the fact that you can find more small scale available at the edges of keeps just out of reach of the siege. Pretty sure Ballista guy was joking about his build, I've made the same joke this week myself about Ballistas and Oils being the best ganker and bomber builds.

This example should show, how disgusting the current state of siege weapons is:
- The damage is too high
- People using sieges normally do not take any risk to deal immense damage (from far away, from keep walls or when the enemy is occupied with guards or other players)
- Using sieges do not require much skill and are therefore too efficient
- Evading the area of effect of sieges can be very difficult in most of situations due to facing enemy players, evading other effects or facing guards
- Being killed by sieges is unsatisfactory, since there is not much counterplay currently and maybe you got killed in a situation, which you normally would have survived
- Killing people with sieges do not really grant satisfaction, because the current mechanics are broken and far too strong
- Individuals gain power, they normally do not possess (bad players can take out good players, good players can take out far too many bad players by themselves)

There isn't no risk to using siege. This very temporary meta does in fact empower higher burst and gank specs that were having a rough go of it in the previous tank meta. Plenty of people not paying attention while on siege. I suppose you're unhappy about gankers getting an effective buff in the meta but honestly the only times I've been successfully ganked in the last year are when I'm running a lowish health build and the ganker is vastly better than me, or they are about as good or better than me but also have a friend. Because otherwise they often die as the counters to gankers are so potent even if I die as well. Maybe I shouldn't get baited into fighting their friends as often as I do... but I do it because deaths are free. Everyone dies a lot more in the current siege meta, but skillful players are doing better than weaker players. The free kills for using siege have already vastly decreased in Vivec as the week has gone on as people have gotten a lot better at countering the siege and they remembered how to siege beyond a fast 20/20 Fd.

Finally I want to say that if anyone wants purely fair fights they either play in a dueling tournament with rules, play Fox only, no item, Final destination, or another such skill intensive fighting game. I'm genuinely thinking about joining a dueling guild myself so I can more consistently get better at fighting 1v1. But I think even if in these instances siege resulted in unfair fights, overall in NA Vivec the meta changes they wrought have given me many more opportunities for fair fights in Cyrodiil proper. Cyrodiil has been more hilarious, active, free flowing, and smale-scale in NA Vivec than it was before the siege changes. The best players are still winning most of the time, and I've actually been able to go out of keeps and fight and die to much better players than me consistently instead of just running from or slowly dying to a bunch of tightly stacked 30k healers running twice as fast as me and casting proxy-det.

HankTwo

ZOS should just fix it first, since its a bug, and then we can discuss if siege damage is appropriate. I hope they don't do some rushed rebalancing because of this.

vamp_emily

I'm not sure if everyone has seen this video, someone posted it in a pvp thread.

I think this video is great

https://youtu.be/GO-BoyX4iKA

Skander

vamp_emily wrote: »

I'm not sure if everyone has seen this video, someone posted it in a pvp thread.

I think this video is great

https://youtu.be/GO-BoyX4iKA

I have no hope for cyrodill pvp if this mondey this isn't fixed tremendusly

Minno

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

The bugged siege isn't here to stay. It is getting fixed Monday. Zos does NOT intend to keep it in game, but rather are considering increasing the damage of sieges in the F U T U R E.

Lol enjoy the minimal lag while it lasts

Qbiken

Minno wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

The bugged siege isn't here to stay. It is getting fixed Monday. Zos does NOT intend to keep it in game, but rather are considering increasing the damage of sieges in the F U T U R E.

Lol enjoy the minimal lag while it lasts

I had the same lag yesterday as I had during the last few days in Murkmire, so nothing really changed for me, and I doubt it will change when ZOS fix this bug with the siege damage.

Merlight

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think this video is great

Agreed, and the song perfectly fits. Staring at death recap, then accepting resurrect right into siege fire does qualify as a Dumb Way To Die. As does eating siege with 20k max health lol.

StShoot

Feanor wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

They're going to fix it, and they should. Don't get me wrong.

50K siege damage is hella broken yes, but I am enjoying it for a few days. It's really really funny, don't get so bent out of shape. Laugh a little.

The question that remains, shouldn't we buff siege just a little bit more so that people stop standing in it with earthgore and warden heals? I'm sure most people who aren't warden healers wearing earthgore would agree.

What I find so sad is everyone is so quickly riding the abuse train. Just like when enchants were broken some months ago. You can say it’s “fun” and call it a day. I think it’s a symptom of how Cyrodiil has degraded when people aren’t even trying to fight you but frantically put their ballista down instead.

I can’t speak to CP campaigns, but noCP didn’t need any buffs to siege at all.

see here is the problem, everytime i stick my nose out of a keep door i get hit by 20 dots ( obviously exaggerated [more or less]) that isnt fun either and at some you get tired of this ****.

So i have to addmit that i realy started enjoying this siege bug (staying on a wall and kill those procctards while they cant reach me, even if it makes a siegetard out of me:D ).

is it more fun than fight someone in a real battle? hell no

Is it more fun than fighting someone who relies on his proccsets and dots to kill you ? yes it is

Edit: Im speaking about noncps, i dont like to play cps pvp

yodased

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Lol at the people with the don't stand in red argument. If you zerglings jumped off the wall once and awhile to help then you would know the red circles only render about 20% of the time.

If the game isn't rendering properly you might want to bring that up.

If you do not understand the games physics and how human perception works and what's required to build a game, then learn.

Please teach me, I too want to be great enough to kill people with one button while hiding on a wall, but sadly I don't understand game physics or human perception.

Unfortunately I've been using my skill and knowledge of the game rather than crutching on seige for a carry. Silly me, but please go on, your rambling posts are amusing.

Skill and knowledge aka learning the most overperforming setup of the month and what is broken and then using it against players who dont know about them.

skill!

They should name a Ballista after you.

That would be amazing

RedGirl41

Skander wrote: »

Is allarming that people prefer to have weapons which can instantly melt opponents instead of fighting them.

Sieges aren't meant to kill everything on their sight
Sieges are meant to break walls and other sieges. To control areas but not INSTANTLY DECIMATE EVERYTHING

I say this becouse now, on live, a group that is outnumbered will INEVITABLY die to at least 10 fire balistas firing at the same time ticking for 10k each.


This game is getting too casual.

I 100% agree. Yes I understand not everyone is the best player and pvp can be hard but if you get 5 stars from just sitting and pouring oil theres a problem. its player vs player but 90% of people will run away and pop rapids to avoid a fight until they can 20v2 you or siege you.

siege has its moments for counter play... I get that. but a meatbag should only debuff healing, lightening ballista should only drain magic... not do 9k+ damage. I have siege on me all the time for 17k or more. mindless zerging. nobody wants to push into a keep cuz of all the siege so fights last so long until everyone hits a load screen and then blue screens.

nerf siege. you'll still get easy ap from empty keeps and zerging anyway....

Iskiab

It’s overtuned, no doubt about it.

Skander

Still wondering why people are defending current sieges.

I mean, a little bit of self respect?

TheBonesXXX

Skander wrote: »

Still wondering why people are defending current sieges.

I mean, a little bit of self respect?

I'm just confused to why youre getting hit, siege are easy to avoid.

"Nerf things because it killed me".

UppGRAYxDD

While Ill agree that they are definitely tuned up...IDK if it need to change. Maybe just the total amounts of place-able siege at each keep/outpost should be readjusted. All in all, they are siege engines...they should kill you if it hits directly.

InvictusApollo

Say what you want but after the siege buff I had the best time of my life in Cyrodill. And I barely even used them! Battles are much better right now when everyone can contribute. Low level players operate siege engines while more experienced and prepared players battle in the open field, flank, backstab, destroy enemy siege engines.

People are spread out and actually flank and manouver. I don't want ball groups that just spam healing and overwhelm enemies while fps drops to zero and lag skyrockets.

This change actually makes people fight more skillfully while letting everyone feel included.

And the best thing is that battles are AWESOME!

ATomiX96

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Say what you want but after the siege buff I had the best time of my life in Cyrodill. And I barely even used them! Battles are much better right now when everyone can contribute.

"battles".
Do you mean 20 people sitting on the wall trying to siege you because they cant kill a 4 man group without siege? :^)