Longstanding Issues in BGs: Are the Developers Even Listening to Us?

Aurielle

... because it really doesn't seem that way, most of the time. In case the devs are listening or are open to listening (perhaps @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can confirm?), here's a list of some of the worst long-standing issues in BGs. I encourage anyone who's reading to add anything I may have missed.

1. Premades vs. PUGs:

This is probably the biggest issue at the moment: strong premade groups (usually optimized for as much cheese as possible) utterly destroying otherwise good PVPers who were grouped together randomly. There is an overwhelming amount of support (both in these forums, and in game) for separating the queues for premades and PUGs. I don't think I've seen a single ZOS employee even acknowledge community thoughts on this front. Separating the queues will make BGs more enjoyable for everyone (except, I guess, for those few toxic individuals who get their jollies from dominating in PVP with little to no challenge). I'm seeing increasing numbers of players simply rage-quitting when they find themselves up against the exact same overpowered premades over and over again. Heck, even I did that for the first time today (and I hate it when people rage quit), because I simply wasn't going to be ego fodder for yet another packleader WW premade. In my experience, BGs are more fun, and more balanced, when everyone is queued solo. Premades who want a challenge would be better served by being able to queue against other organized/optimized teams.

2. Lack of Player Variety:

Thanks to the MMR system and what I have to assume is a relatively smallish player pool at certain ranks, many of us end up playing the same people over and over (and over, and over...) again. I usually recognize at least half (if not more) of the names on the list when I play. I know what builds people are running before the match even starts, because I've played against them all so many times. There are certain players who are starting to feel like dungeon bosses: utterly predictable and boring. One of the reasons why I PVP is for the variety and randomness. When things are always changing, they're always interesting. When you know what your enemy is going to do before they even do it...where's the fun in that? I want to play against different people, and the only way I can do that is by rolling alts -- which is tedious. In no other PVP game do I have this problem.

3. Long Queue Times:

Also thanks to the MMR system, many of us are stuck with long wait times, particularly during prime time hours. On my main, I'm usually facing a wait of 10+ minutes per match. At certain times of the day, I get instant queues. but that's mostly because I'm being pulled in near the end of a match to replace someone who rage-quit thanks to a toxic premade. When playing on alts, the queue time is always instant or close to instant; this leads me to believe that it is NOT a player population issue, but rather an MMR issue.

4. Pet Stacking/Pet Targeting:

This is partly related to my first point, but I'm mentioning it separately because it's significant enough of an issue to warrant its own discussion. Pet stacking in BG maps, which are relatively small areas, highlights glaring issues with pet targeting in PVP environments. Premades that are built to maximize the number of pets around them essentially gain free damage mitigation against single target attacks. If the group is skilled at kiting, they can keep their pets in front of them at all times, making themselves virtually untargetable. AOEs are a potential solution, but many burst rotations in PVP rely on single target abilities. I've lost track now of the sheer number of WW direwolves or scamps who have eaten my incaps or my frags in BGs... It's frustrating trying to target players through that many pets, and it creates a chaotic, zerg-like atmosphere (especially if each team features multiple pet builds) in a small area that is supposed to be dedicated to small-scale PVP.

5. Bugs, Exploits, and Tigers, Oh My:

Players are STILL able to pick up the chaosball a fraction of a second before they die and respawn at their base holding the ball, where they are free to remain and rack up points until the end of the match (these players also don't get banned when they're reported). Players are STILL able to sit in water with the chaosball and completely protect themselves from melee attacks (also without getting banned when they're reported). People STILL get stuck in that freaking staircase (anyone who's played a lot knows exactly which staircase I'm referring to). Matches STILL fail to start, stuck in a perpetual "Waiting for Players" limbo until everyone leaves, incurring deserter penalties in the process.

TLDR: BGs were a breath of fresh air when they first came out, but several things need to change/be fixed to keep them enjoyable for everyone (not just the premades and the exploiters).

alexj4596b14_ESO

Aurielle wrote: »

... because it really doesn't seem that way, most of the time. In case the devs are listening or are open to listening (perhaps @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can confirm?), here's a list of some of the worst long-standing issues in BGs. I encourage anyone who's reading to add anything I may have missed.



3. Long Queue Times:

Also thanks to the MMR system, many of us are stuck with long wait times, particularly during prime time hours. On my main, I'm usually facing a wait of 10+ minutes per match. At certain times of the day, I get instant queues. but that's mostly because I'm being pulled in near the end of a match to replace someone who rage-quit thanks to a toxic premade. When playing on alts, the queue time is always instant or close to instant; this leads me to believe that it is NOT a player population issue, but rather an MMR issue.

4. Pet Stacking/Pet Targeting:

This is partly related to my first point, but I'm mentioning it separately because it's significant enough of an issue to warrant its own discussion. Pet stacking in BG maps, which are relatively small areas, highlights glaring issues with pet targeting in PVP environments. Premades that are built to maximize the number of pets around them essentially gain free damage mitigation against single target attacks. If the group is skilled at kiting, they can keep their pets in front of them at all times, making themselves virtually untargetable. AOEs are a potential solution, but many burst rotations in PVP rely on single target abilities. I've lost track now of the sheer number of WW direwolves or scamps who have eaten my incaps or my frags in BGs... It's frustrating trying to target players through that many pets, and it creates a chaotic, zerg-like atmosphere (especially if each team features multiple pet builds) in a small area that is supposed to be dedicated to small-scale PVP.

I have personally never had long que times, but after a certain period of time low mmrs should be put into the next teir for the sake of que times. Just add a warning message when this occurs.

The WW pet thing is yah..idk how to fix it but I feel like moves should target priority players vs pets

Beardimus

I do a ton of BGs and really don't see some of the points you are raising. Thus your subject is somewhat bait, as its your view not 'ours'

1. Yes they are listening, check the patch notes
2. Unsure what ZOS can do. Personally don't feel this, i did pre Summerset, but now pop is popping
3. Again, preSS yes, not any more weekday evenings or weekend. I'm Xbox EU when do you play / context
4. Not an issue. Every class has things to deal with / counter. They all have pros and cons. I.e. Pets are ok for me, i hate wings spam.
5. Not seen these personally, bar the ball once. But agree bugs need fixing.

Personally played a ton of BG's in 2017, and started again regular of late and feel they in a better place than most of 2018. Perhaps my MMR finally dropped lol or its when i play / platform, but i don't feel the pain you do

What annoys me - influx of snipe stickers and tether tanks, drawing out games.

Aurielle

Beardimus wrote: »

I do a ton of BGs and really don't see some of the points you are raising. Thus your subject is somewhat bait, as its your view not 'ours'

1. Yes they are listening, check the patch notes
2. Unsure what ZOS can do. Personally don't feel this, i did pre Summerset, but now pop is popping
3. Again, preSS yes, not any more weekday evenings or weekend. I'm Xbox EU when do you play / context
4. Not an issue. Every class has things to deal with / counter. They all have pros and cons. I.e. Pets are ok for me, i hate wings spam.
5. Not seen these personally, bar the ball once. But agree bugs need fixing.

Personally played a ton of BG's in 2017, and started again regular of late and feel they in a better place than most of 2018. Perhaps my MMR finally dropped lol or its when i play / platform, but i don't feel the pain you do

What annoys me - influx of snipe stickers and tether tanks, drawing out games.

First off, how is this "bait" when these ARE, in fact, issues that many of us are currently dealing with? Do you think we're making this s*** up?

1. I've read the patch notes. Nowhere is there any talk of outright separating premades from solo queued players -- just the same old wishy washy promise that they're going to try to increase the likelihood that premades will face other premades. Don't forget: that's the whole reason why we have the MMR in the first place, and it clearly didn't solve the issue. I (and many others like me) don't want to play against premades PERIOD. Many of us want separate queues, not just a vague promise of less chance of fighting premades.

2. ZOS can eliminate the MMR to solve the problem. I'm really tired of playing against the same people over and over again, just because I've earned a certain number of medals.

3. I'm on PS4 NA, and as I said in my OP, the long queue times are more pronounced at prime time (EST) in the evening. I'm a shift worker, so I often play weekdays during the day on my days off or when I'm working nights. Daytime queues are a little faster, but mostly because there are premades no-lifing BGs for 5+ hours at a time, forcing lots of rage-quits.

4. 100% an issue. The only way to "counter" a WW and/or sorc pet premade is to form a coordinated AOE ult spamming premade. That isn't a "counter" that is available to a solo queued player (which, of course, brings us back to point number 1).

wheem_ESO

Aurielle wrote: »

1. I've read the patch notes. Nowhere is there any talk of outright separating premades from solo queued players -- just the same old wishy washy promise that they're going to try to increase the likelihood that premades will face other premades. Don't forget: that's the whole reason why we have the MMR in the first place, and it clearly didn't solve the issue. I (and many others like me) don't want to play against premades PERIOD. Many of us want separate queues, not just a vague promise of less chance of fighting premades.

Based on anecdotal patch-day experience, the change had no noticeable effect on high MMR Battlegrounds for PC-NA. There's a chance that it helped at low/mid MMR levels, where there are supposedly a lot of premade teams, but my first 1.5 - 2 hours of queueing last night involved at least one 3-4 man team in every single game.

ecru

Beardimus wrote: »

I do a ton of BGs and really don't see some of the points you are raising. Thus your subject is somewhat bait, as its your view not 'ours'

1. Yes they are listening, check the patch notes
2. Unsure what ZOS can do. Personally don't feel this, i did pre Summerset, but now pop is popping
3. Again, preSS yes, not any more weekday evenings or weekend. I'm Xbox EU when do you play / context
4. Not an issue. Every class has things to deal with / counter. They all have pros and cons. I.e. Pets are ok for me, i hate wings spam.
5. Not seen these personally, bar the ball once. But agree bugs need fixing.

Personally played a ton of BG's in 2017, and started again regular of late and feel they in a better place than most of 2018. Perhaps my MMR finally dropped lol or its when i play / platform, but i don't feel the pain you do

What annoys me - influx of snipe stickers and tether tanks, drawing out games.

Magsorc says his 2 pets and daedroth are just fine, go figure. There is no good reason a team should have an extra 8-12 potential targets surrounding them with the way that soft targeting works. It legitimately makes targeting someone difficult as targeting is basically just a suggestion. All you have to do is run around your pet zoo and you're guaranteed to have a decent amount of attacks land on your pet(s) instead of yourself.

PhoenixGrey

New patch. Same old ***

Aurielle

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

New patch. Same old ***

Premades still stomping pugs, despite ZOS’s statement that they tweaked BGs to make it more likely that premades would face other premades? Colour me surprised!

Weesacs

What's also frustrating is when I pick up the 'Win 3 battlegrounds' daily quest ... with very high MMR and playing premades all day this quest should be a weekly instead with bigger rewards because at least with the other two daily quests you can still complete them playing against premades. This daily quest just adds to the frustration.

ecru

More on the pet targeting issue--I've recently run into a number of sorcs just in the past week or so who have been specifically using their atronarch to make themselves difficult to target. They cast it, and then run through/inside of the atronarch so that you can't target them 100% of the time. It seems to be catching on, and there are a whole lot of sorcs out there. It isn't just magsorcs either

We really need some kind of option to completely disable targeting enemy pets in BGs. The targeting issues I've heard tanks in my raid group complain about for a long time are becoming more and more apparent. Soft targeting in ESO seems to greatly prioritize what's closest to you, rather than what you have tab targeted + what your crosshair is on. Even if a player is like 3-5m to the side of their pet(s), you will still end up crit charging or pulling the pet instead of the player if the pet is closer to you.

Aurielle

ecru wrote: »

More on the pet targeting issue--I've recently run into a number of sorcs just in the past week or so who have been specifically using their atronarch to make themselves difficult to target. They cast it, and then run through/inside of the atronarch so that you can't target them 100% of the time. It seems to be catching on, and there are a whole lot of sorcs out there. It isn't just magsorcs either

We really need some kind of option to completely disable targeting enemy pets in BGs. The targeting issues I've heard tanks in my raid group complain about for a long time are becoming more and more apparent. Soft targeting in ESO seems to greatly prioritize what's closest to you, rather than what you have tab targeted + what your crosshair is on. Even if a player is like 3-5m to the side of their pet(s), you will still end up crit charging or pulling the pet instead of the player if the pet is closer to you.

Yep. You can see it in the opening few minutes of this video: when I’m specifically trying to target a player, the second a pet is closer to me than the player, my ranged skills hit the pet until I move beyond the pet. It REALLY messes up burst rotations.

https://youtu.be/LG-cjTYaMH0

Aurielle

You can also see here that my Flames of Oblivion attacks go for the pets more than the players I’m targeting, since the skill is based on proximity to the enemy:

https://youtu.be/x880J15Y6BY

I stopped using Flames of Oblivion on my DK solely because of this issue. It’s a wasted skill, as anyone who can keep their pet in front of them will always mitigate that damage.

PhoenixGrey

Aurielle wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

New patch. Same old ***

Premades still stomping pugs, despite ZOS’s statement that they tweaked BGs to make it more likely that premades would face other premades? Colour me surprised!

I think it should go back to how it was before MMR. Its the easiest way to fix things with minimal effort.

ccmedaddy

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how removing MMR altogether will solve the premade v. random issue...or any of the issues listed here maybe except for #2.

Aurielle

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how removing MMR altogether will solve the premade v. random issue...or any of the issues listed here maybe except for #2.

I personally don’t want to see the MMR system eliminated completely (god knows it would be boring to fight noobs in PVE gear), but I do think it needs to be tweaked. Most importantly, the queues should be separate. With separate queues for pugs and premades, the MMR system could be relaxed a bit. Rather than clumping premades and BG regulars into one high MMR tier bracket, the pool could be widened a bit in each queue. More variety and faster queue times, while still preserving challenge.

ccmedaddy

Oh I completely agree with you on all of those points. I was just responding to the post above saying removing MMR altogether will fix the problems w/ BGs, an argument I see pretty often in this corner of the forums. I'd love to someone elaborate on that argument cuz I don't get it.

Meanwhile, ZOS is probably completely unaware that this discussion is even happening and spending all of their BG-related manpower/resources on creating a new map as we speak so.... 🙃

ecru

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Oh I completely agree with you on all of those points. I was just responding to the post above saying removing MMR altogether will fix the problems w/ BGs, an argument I see pretty often in this corner of the forums. I'd love to someone elaborate on that argument cuz I don't get it.

Meanwhile, ZOS is probably completely unaware that this discussion is even happening and spending all of their BG-related manpower/resources on creating a new map as we speak so.... 🙃

A new map that teleports each team on top of each other over and over again as soon as they leave their spawn, no doubt. Console players have no idea the "fun" they're in for when they get the new map is pushed to live. Melee players will have a whole lot of fun targeting sorcs streaking onto areas where they can't be targeted too. A+++ map design.

JaZ2091

Aurielle wrote: »

... because it really doesn't seem that way, most of the time. In case the devs are listening or are open to listening (perhaps @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can confirm?), here's a list of some of the worst long-standing issues in BGs. I encourage anyone who's reading to add anything I may have missed.

1. Premades vs. PUGs:

This is probably the biggest issue at the moment: strong premade groups (usually optimized for as much cheese as possible) utterly destroying otherwise good PVPers who were grouped together randomly. There is an overwhelming amount of support (both in these forums, and in game) for separating the queues for premades and PUGs. I don't think I've seen a single ZOS employee even acknowledge community thoughts on this front. Separating the queues will make BGs more enjoyable for everyone (except, I guess, for those few toxic individuals who get their jollies from dominating in PVP with little to no challenge). I'm seeing increasing numbers of players simply rage-quitting when they find themselves up against the exact same overpowered premades over and over again. Heck, even I did that for the first time today (and I hate it when people rage quit), because I simply wasn't going to be ego fodder for yet another packleader WW premade. In my experience, BGs are more fun, and more balanced, when everyone is queued solo. Premades who want a challenge would be better served by being able to queue against other organized/optimized teams.

2. Lack of Player Variety:

Thanks to the MMR system and what I have to assume is a relatively smallish player pool at certain ranks, many of us end up playing the same people over and over (and over, and over...) again. I usually recognize at least half (if not more) of the names on the list when I play. I know what builds people are running before the match even starts, because I've played against them all so many times. There are certain players who are starting to feel like dungeon bosses: utterly predictable and boring. One of the reasons why I PVP is for the variety and randomness. When things are always changing, they're always interesting. When you know what your enemy is going to do before they even do it...where's the fun in that? I want to play against different people, and the only way I can do that is by rolling alts -- which is tedious. In no other PVP game do I have this problem.

3. Long Queue Times:

Also thanks to the MMR system, many of us are stuck with long wait times, particularly during prime time hours. On my main, I'm usually facing a wait of 10+ minutes per match. At certain times of the day, I get instant queues. but that's mostly because I'm being pulled in near the end of a match to replace someone who rage-quit thanks to a toxic premade. When playing on alts, the queue time is always instant or close to instant; this leads me to believe that it is NOT a player population issue, but rather an MMR issue.

4. Pet Stacking/Pet Targeting:

This is partly related to my first point, but I'm mentioning it separately because it's significant enough of an issue to warrant its own discussion. Pet stacking in BG maps, which are relatively small areas, highlights glaring issues with pet targeting in PVP environments. Premades that are built to maximize the number of pets around them essentially gain free damage mitigation against single target attacks. If the group is skilled at kiting, they can keep their pets in front of them at all times, making themselves virtually untargetable. AOEs are a potential solution, but many burst rotations in PVP rely on single target abilities. I've lost track now of the sheer number of WW direwolves or scamps who have eaten my incaps or my frags in BGs... It's frustrating trying to target players through that many pets, and it creates a chaotic, zerg-like atmosphere (especially if each team features multiple pet builds) in a small area that is supposed to be dedicated to small-scale PVP.

5. Bugs, Exploits, and Tigers, Oh My:

Players are STILL able to pick up the chaosball a fraction of a second before they die and respawn at their base holding the ball, where they are free to remain and rack up points until the end of the match (these players also don't get banned when they're reported). Players are STILL able to sit in water with the chaosball and completely protect themselves from melee attacks (also without getting banned when they're reported). People STILL get stuck in that freaking staircase (anyone who's played a lot knows exactly which staircase I'm referring to). Matches STILL fail to start, stuck in a perpetual "Waiting for Players" limbo until everyone leaves, incurring deserter penalties in the process.

TLDR: BGs were a breath of fresh air when they first came out, but several things need to change/be fixed to keep them enjoyable for everyone (not just the premades and the exploiters).

BGs is just a cesspool full of cheese. Best premade I've seen so far was 4 Wardens stacking Permafrost and Ice staves. Ults and sets carry groups extremely hard.

Undefwun

I play across various toons.. so maybe I my MMR is not that high that I don't have the queue issue.

The optimised premade thing.. is the same optimised 24 man tower humping, wall running raid in cyro. Straight built for griefing.
You can't claim "we queueing to fight other optimised premades hurr hurr", because as the system stands, you know exactly what the vast majority of the matches are going to be like.
I mean ppl wanna play with friends and people want to win, it's hard where to draw the line. I seen duos totally dominate a BG, experienced, experienced playing together, built to complement. 2 strong stamdens with the dmg and healing they have is huge, but how do you prevent that, you can't.

Zoo sorcs and pack leader players, same thing. You know exactly what you are doing.
Playing broken builds on purpose cos it's easy.... ppl like raging ppl from the safety of the internet.

Lucky for me I don't rage much these days, I just blame everything on my 400-500 ping and so no other player has actually beat me, I already lost to the ping. hehehe

Aurielle

JaZ2091 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

... because it really doesn't seem that way, most of the time. In case the devs are listening or are open to listening (perhaps @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can confirm?), here's a list of some of the worst long-standing issues in BGs. I encourage anyone who's reading to add anything I may have missed.

1. Premades vs. PUGs:

This is probably the biggest issue at the moment: strong premade groups (usually optimized for as much cheese as possible) utterly destroying otherwise good PVPers who were grouped together randomly. There is an overwhelming amount of support (both in these forums, and in game) for separating the queues for premades and PUGs. I don't think I've seen a single ZOS employee even acknowledge community thoughts on this front. Separating the queues will make BGs more enjoyable for everyone (except, I guess, for those few toxic individuals who get their jollies from dominating in PVP with little to no challenge). I'm seeing increasing numbers of players simply rage-quitting when they find themselves up against the exact same overpowered premades over and over again. Heck, even I did that for the first time today (and I hate it when people rage quit), because I simply wasn't going to be ego fodder for yet another packleader WW premade. In my experience, BGs are more fun, and more balanced, when everyone is queued solo. Premades who want a challenge would be better served by being able to queue against other organized/optimized teams.

2. Lack of Player Variety:

Thanks to the MMR system and what I have to assume is a relatively smallish player pool at certain ranks, many of us end up playing the same people over and over (and over, and over...) again. I usually recognize at least half (if not more) of the names on the list when I play. I know what builds people are running before the match even starts, because I've played against them all so many times. There are certain players who are starting to feel like dungeon bosses: utterly predictable and boring. One of the reasons why I PVP is for the variety and randomness. When things are always changing, they're always interesting. When you know what your enemy is going to do before they even do it...where's the fun in that? I want to play against different people, and the only way I can do that is by rolling alts -- which is tedious. In no other PVP game do I have this problem.

3. Long Queue Times:

Also thanks to the MMR system, many of us are stuck with long wait times, particularly during prime time hours. On my main, I'm usually facing a wait of 10+ minutes per match. At certain times of the day, I get instant queues. but that's mostly because I'm being pulled in near the end of a match to replace someone who rage-quit thanks to a toxic premade. When playing on alts, the queue time is always instant or close to instant; this leads me to believe that it is NOT a player population issue, but rather an MMR issue.

4. Pet Stacking/Pet Targeting:

This is partly related to my first point, but I'm mentioning it separately because it's significant enough of an issue to warrant its own discussion. Pet stacking in BG maps, which are relatively small areas, highlights glaring issues with pet targeting in PVP environments. Premades that are built to maximize the number of pets around them essentially gain free damage mitigation against single target attacks. If the group is skilled at kiting, they can keep their pets in front of them at all times, making themselves virtually untargetable. AOEs are a potential solution, but many burst rotations in PVP rely on single target abilities. I've lost track now of the sheer number of WW direwolves or scamps who have eaten my incaps or my frags in BGs... It's frustrating trying to target players through that many pets, and it creates a chaotic, zerg-like atmosphere (especially if each team features multiple pet builds) in a small area that is supposed to be dedicated to small-scale PVP.

5. Bugs, Exploits, and Tigers, Oh My:

Players are STILL able to pick up the chaosball a fraction of a second before they die and respawn at their base holding the ball, where they are free to remain and rack up points until the end of the match (these players also don't get banned when they're reported). Players are STILL able to sit in water with the chaosball and completely protect themselves from melee attacks (also without getting banned when they're reported). People STILL get stuck in that freaking staircase (anyone who's played a lot knows exactly which staircase I'm referring to). Matches STILL fail to start, stuck in a perpetual "Waiting for Players" limbo until everyone leaves, incurring deserter penalties in the process.

TLDR: BGs were a breath of fresh air when they first came out, but several things need to change/be fixed to keep them enjoyable for everyone (not just the premades and the exploiters).

BGs is just a cesspool full of cheese. Best premade I've seen so far was 4 Wardens stacking Permafrost and Ice staves. Ults and sets carry groups extremely hard.

Yep. That’s why I prefer it when everyone is solo queued, because the chances of four random players stacking the exact same cheese are slim. A single cast of Permafrost is manageable and, I would argue, not inherently cheesy. It’s possible for you and your teammates to recover from a single Permafrost. Coordinated Perma bombs plus a blanket of frost WoE from four Wardens? Good luck! Same goes for other forms of cheese. One individual packleader WW? Manageable. Four? Holy arooooo zoo. One magsorc? Hey, not all of your kills will be stolen! Four magsorcs? Sit back and enjoy the lightning show. One snipetard NB? Manageable. Four? LOL, you gonna get ganked SO HARD.

Premades that don’t want a challenge and just want to pug stomp have so many different forms of cheese available to stack. Randoms generally don’t stand a chance, UNLESS the RNG gods bless them with a group composition of skilled players who synergize well. That doesn’t happen very often. What really grinds my gears is the fact that some of these premades will queue ALL DAY. I can’t begin to count the number of times I’ve given up and taken a break, only to find the same premade pug stomping hours later when I try again.

Thogard

ZOS does play a lot of BGs. Gilliam was queueing as recently as last night, and we saw the dev squad PvP in a bg on eso live just a few weeks ago.

The new MMR system hasn’t been out long enough for us to draw conclusions about it but I have noticed more variability in my matches / opponents. It seems less likely that I keep fighting with and against the same 11 people than it did last patch. Still too early to tell though.

I’d love a ranked (skill based) premade queue to be separate from solo queue.

Koolio

Thogard wrote: »

ZOS does play a lot of BGs. Gilliam was queueing as recently as last night, and we saw the dev squad PvP in a bg on eso live just a few weeks ago.

The new MMR system hasn’t been out long enough for us to draw conclusions about it but I have noticed more variability in my matches / opponents. It seems less likely that I keep fighting with and against the same 11 people than it did last patch. Still too early to tell though.

I’d love a ranked (skill based) premade queue to be separate from solo queue.

It’s one thing to say they play Bg’s but play a lot I don’t see it. There’s just too many extremely outstanding issues in the PVP realm for me/us (15 players in my guild) to believe they play a lot. Not specifically BGs but PvP in general.

They definitely don’t play on console

They obviously don’t play MNB that uses Shadow Image

They must not stay around keeps (load screens on every flip and each time a keep upgrades)

They definitely don’t run enchants because they still lag your whole game out when they run out

They must not run oil( the amount of broken oil that don’t work for me is now in the 100’s)

They must not get stunned because break free has been broken for years

They must never get sniped because we all know that’s extremely broken

They probably don’t run wings because you can still get sniped with them up

And they definitely don’t give a damn about the PvP community. At least till recently. 2 years without almost any update.

No communication regarding performance update they rolled back during CwC load screen fiasco

No communication about keep jumpers (ambush on a fried to steal scrolls)


No communication regarding new scoring in PvP. 25k point differences on the campaign scores shouldn’t be a thing.


We ask consistently for an update or even just a notice that they are looking into these. This is a tiny list compared to the actual issues we would like issues from.

Like why on earth do dawn breakers disappear. You even made a detailed video (I’m pretty sure it was you)about what is going on and I haven’t heard anything since

I posted about shadow image the moment it was an issue. I bumped it almost everyday for 3 months and never did get a response. Until a Class Rep mention it in the notes.


So forgive me for being negative but I don’t see how they could play/promote this if they actually played. I would personally be ashamed and probably not say anything ever( like they do now).

When I can see the same people in PvP everyday to the point that I know they switched their gear there’s a problem with population. Which is caused by them not caring for too long. Hopefully the new combat Dev lead makes a huge difference and I’ll stick around to find out. But ZOS doesn’t have a great track record.

Thogard

Koolio wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ZOS does play a lot of BGs. Gilliam was queueing as recently as last night, and we saw the dev squad PvP in a bg on eso live just a few weeks ago.

The new MMR system hasn’t been out long enough for us to draw conclusions about it but I have noticed more variability in my matches / opponents. It seems less likely that I keep fighting with and against the same 11 people than it did last patch. Still too early to tell though.

I’d love a ranked (skill based) premade queue to be separate from solo queue.

It’s one thing to say they play Bg’s but play a lot I don’t see it. There’s just too many extremely outstanding issues in the PVP realm for me/us (15 players in my guild) to believe they play a lot. Not specifically BGs but PvP in general.

They definitely don’t play on console

They obviously don’t play MNB that uses Shadow Image

They must not stay around keeps (load screens on every flip and each time a keep upgrades)

They definitely don’t run enchants because they still lag your whole game out when they run out

They must not run oil( the amount of broken oil that don’t work for me is now in the 100’s)

They must not get stunned because break free has been broken for years

They must never get sniped because we all know that’s extremely broken

They probably don’t run wings because you can still get sniped with them up

And they definitely don’t give a damn about the PvP community. At least till recently. 2 years without almost any update.

No communication regarding performance update they rolled back during CwC load screen fiasco

No communication about keep jumpers (ambush on a fried to steal scrolls)


No communication regarding new scoring in PvP. 25k point differences on the campaign scores shouldn’t be a thing.


We ask consistently for an update or even just a notice that they are looking into these. This is a tiny list compared to the actual issues we would like issues from.

Like why on earth do dawn breakers disappear. You even made a detailed video (I’m pretty sure it was you)about what is going on and I haven’t heard anything since

I posted about shadow image the moment it was an issue. I bumped it almost everyday for 3 months and never did get a response. Until a Class Rep mention it in the notes.


So forgive me for being negative but I don’t see how they could play/promote this if they actually played. I would personally be ashamed and probably not say anything ever( like they do now).

When I can see the same people in PvP everyday to the point that I know they switched their gear there’s a problem with population. Which is caused by them not caring for too long. Hopefully the new combat Dev lead makes a huge difference and I’ll stick around to find out. But ZOS doesn’t have a great track record.

Sadly the engine that ESO runs on isn’t great. Half the time they fix something it ends up breaking something else, so they tend to not talk about what they’re fixing until they know that the fix will work.

Many of the problems you listed just aren’t fixable inside of the current engine. The devs play the game but many of those items aren’t easy (or cheap) to fix. ESO wasn’t built on its own engine.

I think that the mistake you’re making is that you’re confusing the devs awareness of problems with their capacity to fix said problems. They’re not sitting around choosing not to fix stuff - they just can’t easily fix many of the bigger issues that have been plaguing the game for a long time. Budget is a big part of that I imagine.

Iskiab

Meh, agree with some of the points and disagree with some others. I’ve seen the OP in maybe 5 or so BGs so it should be the sameish environment.

Pet sorcs are annoying but not that powerful. They’re more an annoyance for ranged then overpowered.

Targeting is off. I can confirm that one.

Queue times can be around 5 minutes depending on the time of day.

I do see the same names a lot.

I sometimes see premades, I’ve only seen one really powerful one in the early morning. Someone said they were Japanese. Other than that they do a little better than pugs, but except for the one group they weren’t people playing specs so they’d synergize with each other. Just guildies so didn’t run off or act dumb in the BG.

NoMoreChillies

2 things will get devs attention:

Exploits and $$$

they dont care about us

Bashev

ecru wrote: »

More on the pet targeting issue--I've recently run into a number of sorcs just in the past week or so who have been specifically using their atronarch to make themselves difficult to target. They cast it, and then run through/inside of the atronarch so that you can't target them 100% of the time. It seems to be catching on, and there are a whole lot of sorcs out there. It isn't just magsorcs either

We really need some kind of option to completely disable targeting enemy pets in BGs. The targeting issues I've heard tanks in my raid group complain about for a long time are becoming more and more apparent. Soft targeting in ESO seems to greatly prioritize what's closest to you, rather than what you have tab targeted + what your crosshair is on. Even if a player is like 3-5m to the side of their pet(s), you will still end up crit charging or pulling the pet instead of the player if the pet is closer to you.

I strongly agree here. Plus these pets have 80% damage reduction vs AoE and dots? ZoS give us an option to make them untargetable.

jcm2606

Soft targeting doesn't prioritise what's closest to you, it just flat out doesn't work when it decides to screw you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yprAGEEfOPk

Aurielle

Iskiab wrote: »

Meh, agree with some of the points and disagree with some others. I’ve seen the OP in maybe 5 or so BGs so it should be the sameish environment.

Pet sorcs are annoying but not that powerful. They’re more an annoyance for ranged then overpowered.

Targeting is off. I can confirm that one.

Queue times can be around 5 minutes depending on the time of day.

I do see the same names a lot.

I sometimes see premades, I’ve only seen one really powerful one in the early morning. Someone said they were Japanese. Other than that they do a little better than pugs, but except for the one group they weren’t people playing specs so they’d synergize with each other. Just guildies so didn’t run off or act dumb in the BG.

You’ve seen me? Aren’t you on PC? Or are you referring to my videos?

I never said pet sorcs were OP. They’re an annoyance for ranged AND melee players (especially if you use single target ultimates like incap). They also have a kill-stealing advantage, because they’re free to spam wrath/fury without hitting their own zoo. No other non-pet class player in the BG has that same advantage.

You’re lucky that you don’t see OP premades all that often. They’re running rampant on PS4 NA at all times of the day, every day.

Aurielle

jcm2606 wrote: »

Soft targeting doesn't prioritise what's closest to you, it just flat out doesn't work when it decides to screw you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yprAGEEfOPk

Watching that caused physical pain, LOL. I’ve had many ults eaten by pets before, but that... that’s a whole new level of aggravating.

jcm2606

Aurielle wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Soft targeting doesn't prioritise what's closest to you, it just flat out doesn't work when it decides to screw you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yprAGEEfOPk

Watching that caused physical pain, LOL. I’ve had many ults eaten by pets before, but that... that’s a whole new level of aggravating.

You have no idea, lol. Hardly the first time it's happened to me, too. Got four clips saved, I only just started clipping them with Shadowplay recently, and I haven't played much lately, so it's not uncommon.

Iskiab

Trick I’ve found against pet zoo builds is to use abilities that are stronger the more targets there are - cleave, etc...

Plus I love them because it gives me something to heavy attack to regain resources as a healer. They’re free resources.