Buffer of the swift vs fort brass vs pariah etc

exeeter702

Anyone with some math that could offer some insight into where the new buffer set sits compared to the various defensive LA options?

Im aware of the detailed post that really breaks down the other sets but im at work and cant sit down and break out the numbers atm.

Iskiab

I did the math a while ago so don’t have specifics. Result was buffer of the swift gives more mitigation than light fortified brass, with the added bonus of the 10% player damage effecting things that bypass mitigation. Didn’t check pariah.

Tested it yesterday in game and it’s good. I ditched my heavy fortified brass and Swift is now my base set for pvp.

My perspective is a pvp healer. I’ve been wearing heavy for so long the extra regen plus snare reduction from light is really nice.

Minno

exeeter702 wrote: »

Anyone with some math that could offer some insight into where the new buffer set sits compared to the various defensive LA options?

Im aware of the detailed post that really breaks down the other sets but im at work and cant sit down and break out the numbers atm.

what's there to figure out lol. Use a basic dmg number you see in cyro, convert your resist to percentage, and use the 10% from the set.

Compare the final numbers to a build not running it. Decide if you can outheal the dmg and how much offense you lose from using up a 5pc set for entirely defense.

ChefZero

exeeter702 wrote: »

Anyone with some math that could offer some insight into where the new buffer set sits compared to the various defensive LA options?

Im aware of the detailed post that really breaks down the other sets but im at work and cant sit down and break out the numbers atm.

For example Mark of the Pariah should give you ~12k (3/4 + 5 pc bonus) with ~30% HP = 18.3% mitigation. The 3/4 pc bonus from BotS gives you 4.5% mitigation.

Seems like BotS outperforms Fortified Brass and Armor Master if you don't need the HP. MotP is another story but BotS offers 10% mitigation against everything.

Iskiab

Sort of, it’s 660 for 1 percent mitigation. So if you have 13,200 resists unbuffed that’s 20%. Buffs like the major resistance buffs shouldn’t matter too much in your calculation because of debuffs - you’ll add 5k and they’ll take away 5k.

Then the 10 percent damage reduction only applies after mitigation. So of the 80 percent that gets through you’ll mitigate 10 percent of it.

That means your total mitigation will be 28%.

I haven’t figured out if the 10 percent effects bleeds and oblivion damage, but my gut tells me it does because otherwise I’d be feeling more of a survivability hit coming from heavy fortified brass.

brandonv516

Can't wait for BotS changes. Looks really good for my NB healer.

I use Pariah right now but have 2 Swift pieces. I'll change those to Protective when I make the switch.

Iskiab

The BotS changes are live already, I started using the set yesterday.

I’m an altmer so losing the magicka regen bonus hurt, but the spell power is really nice and I like the stamina passive. Coming from brass I also had to put all tri stat glyphs to get a decent health pool. I transmuted my necklace to triune as well. I was disappointed with the altmer changes initially because of sustain issues wearing heavy fortified, but changing to 5 light helped a ton.

I haven’t decided if I should change my rings to protective or not. So far in BGs I’ve been okay without it but haven’t been in cyrodiil yet. In BGs the SP and higher magicka has meant I can rely more on combat prayer and refreshing path to heal so I’m leery about putting protective unless I have to.

If you like the speed I’d suggest the steed mundus. I started using it on my alts with bad mount speed, it’s hard to go back to normal speed once you start using Swift traits or the steed mundus.

Juhasow

It works against bleeds where fortified brass and pariah dont so this is already a nice adventage.

Torbschka

But 10% isnt 10% after other mitigation, right? So Pariah is around 18% around 30% HP, and Bots is 4.5% (resists) + 10% , But those 10% are more like 7-8%. Imo Pariah is still better If u dont fight heavy bleed /oblivion damage builds.

Aliyavana

Shh, keep bswift on the downlow, if people talk it will get nerfed

Koolio

They are making a set to buff the swift trait

Lmao

ChefZero

Torbschka wrote: »

But 10% isnt 10% after other mitigation, right? So Pariah is around 18% around 30% HP, and Bots is 4.5% (resists) + 10% , But those 10% are more like 7-8%. Imo Pariah is still better If u dont fight heavy bleed /oblivion damage builds.

Right.

Ok small calculation, let's assume battle spirit, 20k base resistance, minor maim and 30% HP.

BotS -> 50% + 15% + 22975 res (35%) + 10% = 75%

MotP -> 50% + 15% + 32054 (49%) + 10% = 80%

I think it depends on your build. So if you want to build a tank MotP would be better because your HP pool is usually higher, means the scaling is more potent. But if you just want a defensive set for a more balanced build I would go for BotS.

BxBourne

Any one have a good build running swift as a defensive set in pvp?

Iskiab

Yup. I use it in all my magicka builds and switch up things depending on class/role.

Bots+:

Magblade:
5 bright throat and nightflame Cyrodiil and pure healing - resto ice - x1 protective Breton
5 Transmutation, Rest+ BRP staff (breaking trans) and nightflame BG damage/healing - 2x protective Breton

Add another protective if you’re another race, don’t need any if you’re a nord. If you’re another class without cloak I’d use bloodspawn instead of nightflame (the proc resistances and ult one). I prefer being tanky and ungankable.

5x light, all tri-stat glyphs, all impen otherwise typical pvp requirement stuff.

Here's the full build:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=134331

... except I've been using a fire staff instead of ice because I'm an idiot and deconed my Ice staff. Ice > fire.

Insco851

Iskiab wrote: »

Yup. I use it in all my magicka builds and switch up things depending on class/role.

Bots+:

Magblade:
5 bright throat and nightflame Cyrodiil and pure healing - resto ice - x1 protective Breton
5 Transmutation, Rest+ BRP staff (breaking trans) and nightflame BG damage/healing - 2x protective Breton

Add another protective if you’re another race, don’t need any if you’re a nord. If you’re another class without cloak I’d use bloodspawn instead of nightflame (the proc resistances and ult one). I prefer being tanky and ungankable.

5x light, all tri-stat glyphs, all impen otherwise typical pvp requirement stuff.

Here's the full build:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=134331

... except I've been using a fire staff instead of ice because I'm an idiot and deconed my Ice staff. Ice > fire.

Interesting bar setup. How’s BT+BotS work for a DD in pvp tho? Was literally just thinking of using that combo on the magblade.

Iskiab

Insco851 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Yup. I use it in all my magicka builds and switch up things depending on class/role.

Bots+:

Magblade:
5 bright throat and nightflame Cyrodiil and pure healing - resto ice - x1 protective Breton
5 Transmutation, Rest+ BRP staff (breaking trans) and nightflame BG damage/healing - 2x protective Breton

Add another protective if you’re another race, don’t need any if you’re a nord. If you’re another class without cloak I’d use bloodspawn instead of nightflame (the proc resistances and ult one). I prefer being tanky and ungankable.

5x light, all tri-stat glyphs, all impen otherwise typical pvp requirement stuff.

Here's the full build:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=134331

... except I've been using a fire staff instead of ice because I'm an idiot and deconed my Ice staff. Ice > fire.

Interesting bar setup. How’s BT+BotS work for a DD in pvp tho? Was literally just thinking of using that combo on the magblade.

Idk. I really like Bots and BT but reflections are a huge issue, making impulse better then any of the other magblade spammables. That’s why I use the BRP staff (it reduces the cost to impulse to about the same as swallow soul and is aoe).

You could try Bots and BT with no monster, use the maelstrom resto and BRP staff instead. Problem with combing both sets is the appeal is the 5 piece so breaking the set with the BRP doesn’t work well.

I’m mainly healing though. Blockade and impulse are for pressure and I use them to help team mates, impale to kill steal. With my setup it’d be hard to 1v1 anyone /magblade life

Emma_Overload

Buffer of the Swift and Impregnable are the only mitigation sets I've bothered to gold out. Both of these sets are strong enough that you actually FEEL tankier when wearing them.

Syiccal

I've started using BOTS and it allows use of skoria for example as its gives me the passive defense I need without having to use a defensive monster set that relies on procs

Master_Kas

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Buffer of the Swift and Impregnable are the only mitigation sets I've bothered to gold out. Both of these sets are strong enough that you actually FEEL tankier when wearing them.

Pariah is actually pretty good too (tough you must lose some HP for it). Really nice on classes like DK and probably templar aswell, allows you to play a bit more aggressive once you get on lower hp and people tunnelvision you.

LordTareq

Benefit of pariah is also that its heavy, so if your other set is light/medium you get extra resistance from heavy armor chest & legs + passives over BotS.

Minno

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Buffer of the Swift and Impregnable are the only mitigation sets I've bothered to gold out. Both of these sets are strong enough that you actually FEEL tankier when wearing them.

but you don't go past 10% on the 5pc with gold buffer lol.

Syiccal

Minno wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Buffer of the Swift and Impregnable are the only mitigation sets I've bothered to gold out. Both of these sets are strong enough that you actually FEEL tankier when wearing them.

but you don't go past 10% on the 5pc with gold buffer lol.

What do you mean

Minno

Syiccal wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Buffer of the Swift and Impregnable are the only mitigation sets I've bothered to gold out. Both of these sets are strong enough that you actually FEEL tankier when wearing them.

but you don't go past 10% on the 5pc with gold buffer lol.

What do you mean

when you upgrade the set from purple to gold, the 10% dmg reduced doesn't get increased. Maybe that is a tooltip bug, but be careful what sets you upgrade.

Gnozo

We did some tests with jabs on someone who was using bass/Swift:

Swift:
Normal hits: 925
Critical hits: 1240
Brass:
Normal hits: 920
Critical hits: 1233

Swift + Ele Drain applied:
Normal hits: 1025
Critical hits: 1375
Brass + Ele Drain applied:
Normal hits: 1030
Critical hits: 1380

So basicly brass gives more damage mitigation but gets less effective against players with high Penetration and is useless against bleeds. But Stamina chars would prefer 1k health over 1k magicka. It all depends on personal preferences.
And personally i would never use Pariah.

LordTareq

Pariah outperforms brass when below I think it was 78 or 76% health. It really is an excellent defensive set.

Iskiab

Gnozo wrote: »

We did some tests with jabs on someone who was using bass/Swift:

Swift:
Normal hits: 925
Critical hits: 1240
Brass:
Normal hits: 920
Critical hits: 1233

Swift + Ele Drain applied:
Normal hits: 1025
Critical hits: 1375
Brass + Ele Drain applied:
Normal hits: 1030
Critical hits: 1380

So basicly brass gives more damage mitigation but gets less effective against players with high Penetration and is useless against bleeds. But Stamina chars would prefer 1k health over 1k magicka. It all depends on personal preferences.
And personally i would never use Pariah.

That’s what I mathed out too. I think fortified brass is better if your end resists are over 16k (mitigation-pen)I think it was. So mileage will depend on who’s using it, just like minor/major protection (the lower your resistances the better they are).

I’m pretty sure Buffer of the Swift effects bleeds and abilities that bypass resistances.

Minno

Gnozo wrote: »

We did some tests with jabs on someone who was using bass/Swift:

Swift:
Normal hits: 925
Critical hits: 1240
Brass:
Normal hits: 920
Critical hits: 1233

Swift + Ele Drain applied:
Normal hits: 1025
Critical hits: 1375
Brass + Ele Drain applied:
Normal hits: 1030
Critical hits: 1380

So basicly brass gives more damage mitigation but gets less effective against players with high Penetration and is useless against bleeds. But Stamina chars would prefer 1k health over 1k magicka. It all depends on personal preferences.
And personally i would never use Pariah.

7 dmg reduced difference but I get 1k mag for offense/utility with swift? No brainer honestly lol.

Insco851

LordTareq wrote: »

Pariah outperforms brass when below I think it was 78 or 76% health. It really is an excellent defensive set.

Yea this set is amazing honestly. Underrated defensive set. Let’s you push the pace and get tankier.

Syiccal

I use swift but it's still not enough on it's own in light armour , pirate skele is needed if wanna do anything other than zerg surf

Iskiab

Syiccal wrote: »

I use swift but it's still not enough on it's own in light armour , pirate skele is needed if wanna do anything other than zerg surf

I only somewhat agree. Add a couple protective traits and it’s enough for most classes. Either that or bloodspawn.

InvictusApollo

ChefZero wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

But 10% isnt 10% after other mitigation, right? So Pariah is around 18% around 30% HP, and Bots is 4.5% (resists) + 10% , But those 10% are more like 7-8%. Imo Pariah is still better If u dont fight heavy bleed /oblivion damage builds.

Right.

Ok small calculation, let's assume battle spirit, 20k base resistance, minor maim and 30% HP.

BotS -> 50% + 15% + 22975 res (35%) + 10% = 75%

MotP -> 50% + 15% + 32054 (49%) + 10% = 78%

I think it depends on your build. So if you want to build a tank MotP would be better because your HP pool is usually higher, means the scaling is more potent. But if you just want a defensive set for a more balanced build I would go for BotS.

Do you even math bro?
Damage mitigation is multiplicative, not additive.
For these values the damage mitigation would be as follows:
Bots: 1-(1-50%)*(1-15%)*(1-35%)*(1-10%) = 0,7514
MotP: 1-(1-50%)*(1-15%)*(1-49%)*(1-10%) = 0,8049