Why have you nerfed master writs?

stitchesofdooom

Since the addition of Jewelry Crafting, Blacksmith, Woodwork and Clothier master writs have become fewer and 99% of them are only rewarding 7 vouchers. I have 2 theories:

1: you have nerfed armour/weapon master writs.
2: you have nerfed armour/weapon master writs for non-subscribers.

If it's 1, this is horribly unfair and needs to be rectified immerdiately.
If it's 2, this is disgusting behaviour, needs to be rectified immediately, and whoever made the decision needs to be utterly ashamed of their greed.

If you're going to disagree with me, please also tell me if you sub or not.

redspecter23

This sounds anecdotal and hyperbolic. Do you have the data taken from hundreds of writ turnins to prove this? Or just have the feely feels?.

Cillion3117

Feels the same to me.

disintegr8

What I don't understand is that a lot of wood working master writs require improvement to gold and they are only worth 40-60 vouchers, whereas smithing and clothing writs which need golding out are usually worth at least 70 vouchers.

And Jewelry master writs are still only good for destroying. I used to do writs on at least 8 characters,every day, but now I only do them on weekends when I have spare time. This means I can't really comment on any changes to drop rates.

Emma_Overload

disintegr8 wrote: »

What I don't understand is that a lot of wood working master writs require improvement to gold and they are only worth 40-60 vouchers, whereas smithing and clothing writs which need golding out are usually worth at least 70 vouchers.

And Jewelry master writs are still only good for destroying. I used to do writs on at least 8 characters,every day, but now I only do them on weekends when I have spare time. This means I can't really comment on any changes to drop rates.

Gold woodworking tempers are much cheaper than the others.

Turelus

redspecter23 wrote: »

This sounds anecdotal and hyperbolic. Do you have the data taken from hundreds of writ turnins to prove this? Or just have the feely feels?.

This made me laugh, but it's pretty much the answer I would have given.

When someone screams nerfs without patch notes, they normally should provide some data.

Remember that time someone said if you didn't activate all the pinions on the Dolmen it made rare bosses spawn more?

stitchesofdooom

Cillion3117 wrote: »

Feels the same to me.

Turelus wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

This sounds anecdotal and hyperbolic. Do you have the data taken from hundreds of writ turnins to prove this? Or just have the feely feels?.

This made me laugh, but it's pretty much the answer I would have given.

When someone screams nerfs without patch notes, they normally should provide some data.

Remember that time someone said if you didn't activate all the pinions on the Dolmen it made rare bosses spawn more?

Yeah yeah, I know how it looks. But all my epic level master writs for weapons and armour used to reward a variety of numbers of vouchers. Not I get 7 vouchers. Unless I'm "lucky" and it's Nirnhoned. I also rarely ever see a master writ for a legendary (b/w/c)

I do all 7 daily crafting writs over 5 charcters every single day. May I ask - how many of you guys disagreeing with me are subbed atm?

jeedrzej

15 characters. All do writs.
No diffrences observed, sorry.
Subbed.
But I doupt this is the reason.

I think... did you hear about RNG?

tmbrinks

jeedrzej wrote: »

15 characters. All do writs.
No diffrences observed, sorry.
Subbed.
But I doupt this is the reason.

I think... did you hear about RNG?

30 characters. 2 accounts. 1 subbed. 1 unsubbed. No difference observed

JKorr

One account subbed. One account not subbed at the moment. I only do writs on one account.

After selling about a dozen master writs [only 4 for jewelry] I did normal writs on one character yesterday. Ended up with two master writs when I turned in my normal writs. One was woodworking, one was medium shoulders. I passed them on to a guildie; about the only thing I buy with vouchers at this point is gilding wax. I have 21 gilding wax atm, and 200 vouchers I haven't spent yet, so I really didn't need the master writs.

I don't think they've nerfed anything. Fickle and capricious are the gremlins of rng......

redspecter23

15 max craft characters worth of writs every day. Another 15 if I'm bored and want to go over to EU and do it there too. I have noticed no changes other than what ZOS has stated they have changed in the patch notes.

stitchesofdooom

redspecter23 wrote: »

15 max craft characters worth of writs every day. Another 15 if I'm bored and want to go over to EU and do it there too. I have noticed no changes other than what ZOS has stated they have changed in the patch notes.

so are other people, unsubbed, getting armour and weapon - epic - non nirnhoned - master writs for more than 7 vouchers?

kringled_1

stitchesofdooom wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

15 max craft characters worth of writs every day. Another 15 if I'm bored and want to go over to EU and do it there too. I have noticed no changes other than what ZOS has stated they have changed in the patch notes.

so are other people, unsubbed, getting armour and weapon - epic - non nirnhoned - master writs for more than 7 vouchers?

Subbed, but not sure it matters given what my observations are.
Both before and after Summerset, almost all of my epic, not nirn armor and weapon master writs, are 5-7. I've very rarely had an 8, wasn't paying attention to what made the difference. Overall my voucher income went up during 2018 but I think more likely to be the result of finishing trait research and improved motif knowledge.

tmbrinks

Unsubbed account will get between 20-25 master writs a week from Blacksmithing/WW/Clothing (approximately a 7% drop rate). Anecdotally, between 2-5 a week will be for >50 vouchers, with between 0-2 for more than 100. This feels close to 90-95% of the drops are for 5-7 vouchers (with the occasional 18-20 voucher nirn armor one)

Subbed account gets between 25-30 a week (about a 9% drop rate) (That can be attributed to motif knowledge on the main account is greater than the unsubbed account), with similar amounts of "big" voucher amounts.

Admittedly, the number of "big" voucher master writs is only anecdotal evidence, since I haven't tracked those, but I have tracked the actual drops of just master writs in general. I do all of my master writs weekly on one character (for those types at least), and there is almost always at least 1 that is for over 100, and another 4-8 a week that are in the 50-90 range. (I mail the master writs from the unsubbed account over to the subbed account to complete the writs)

stitchesofdooom

tmbrinks wrote: »

Unsubbed account will get between 20-25 master writs a week from Blacksmithing/WW/Clothing (approximately a 7% drop rate). Anecdotally, between 2-5 a week will be for >50 vouchers, with between 0-2 for more than 100. This feels close to 90-95% of the drops are for 5-7 vouchers (with the occasional 18-20 voucher nirn armor one)

Subbed account gets between 25-30 a week (about a 9% drop rate) (That can be attributed to motif knowledge on the main account is greater than the unsubbed account), with similar amounts of "big" voucher amounts.

Admittedly, the number of "big" voucher master writs is only anecdotal evidence, since I haven't tracked those, but I have tracked the actual drops of just master writs in general. I do all of my master writs weekly on one character (for those types at least), and there is almost always at least 1 that is for over 100, and another 4-8 a week that are in the 50-90 range. (I mail the master writs from the unsubbed account over to the subbed account to complete the writs)

omfg, you just backed me up!! WE'RE FRIENDS AGAIN!

Jayne_Doe

I am subbed and I see pretty much the same results as the OP most of the time. I've gone stretches of weeks where the best MWs I got were for 40 vouchers - and I rejoiced.

Before that drought, I'd get an occasional one for 80+ vouchers maybe once a week or every other week. Then that small trickle of "big" writs dried up to where the biggest was 25-30. Each time a gear MW came up, I'd get excited, only to have it be yet another 5-7 vouchers. This went on for months after Summerset launched. A few months ago, it started to pick up, where I'd get a MW worth more that 40 vouchers every couple of weeks.

I've been doing top tier writs on 6 crafters and have been doing MWs since they launched. In fact, I've been playing the game since PC launch - so I know all the reqs to get the best chance at MWs. I've been getting them steadily, but I had a long stretch where the highest value I was hitting was 25-30 (or I might have gotten one of those WW legendaries for 40 vouchers).

Again, I am subbed, so sub doesn't seem to have any privilege with this system.

EDIT - even the post you claim backs you up only really indicates a difference in the DROP RATE of MWs (not the value) and that is attributed to higher motif knowledge on the subbed account. He then went on to say that he saw "similar amounts" of big voucher amounts.

tmbrinks

Screenshot of the master writs in Woodworking/Blacksmithing/Clothing I've received over the last 4 days of doing writs on 27 characters.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

tmbrinks wrote: »

Screenshot of the master writs in Woodworking/Blacksmithing/Clothing I've received over the last 4 days of doing writs on 27 characters.

Now I know why I'm not getting any. You've stolen all the good RNG.

Grimm13

One thing I have noticed is when new motifs sets are added, the master writ rewards seem to get a little worse. When I learn the number of sets added, then it goes back up.

It is like the reward table is divided by the number of motif sets. No, I have no proof, it is what I have noticed consistently.

tmbrinks

Grimm13 wrote: »

One thing I have noticed is when new motifs sets are added, the master writ rewards seem to get a little worse. When I learn the number of sets added, then it goes back up.

It is like the reward table is divided by the number of motif sets. No, I have no proof, it is what I have noticed consistently.

It is exactly that. They have stated it in the patch notes. Having "All" of the motifs that count for the drop chance bonus is the maximum.

SirMewser

redspecter23 wrote: »

This sounds anecdotal and hyperbolic. Do you have the data taken from hundreds of writ turnins to prove this? Or just have the feely feels?.

Mmmm, them feely feels sounds so good and so so right when you say that.

stitchesofdooom

tmbrinks wrote: »

Unsubbed account will get between 20-25 master writs a week from Blacksmithing/WW/Clothing (approximately a 7% drop rate). Anecdotally, between 2-5 a week will be for >50 vouchers, with between 0-2 for more than 100. This feels close to 90-95% of the drops are for 5-7 vouchers (with the occasional 18-20 voucher nirn armor one)

Subbed account gets between 25-30 a week (about a 9% drop rate) (That can be attributed to motif knowledge on the main account is greater than the unsubbed account), with similar amounts of "big" voucher amounts.

Admittedly, the number of "big" voucher master writs is only anecdotal evidence, since I haven't tracked those, but I have tracked the actual drops of just master writs in general. I do all of my master writs weekly on one character (for those types at least), and there is almost always at least 1 that is for over 100, and another 4-8 a week that are in the 50-90 range. (I mail the master writs from the unsubbed account over to the subbed account to complete the writs)

omfg, you just backed me up!! WE'RE FRIENDS AGAIN!

tmbrinks wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

One thing I have noticed is when new motifs sets are added, the master writ rewards seem to get a little worse. When I learn the number of sets added, then it goes back up.

It is like the reward table is divided by the number of motif sets. No, I have no proof, it is what I have noticed consistently.

It is exactly that. They have stated it in the patch notes. Having "All" of the motifs that count for the drop chance bonus is the maximum.

so they changed it from [per motif]? That is what it was before, right?

tmbrinks

stitchesofdooom wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Unsubbed account will get between 20-25 master writs a week from Blacksmithing/WW/Clothing (approximately a 7% drop rate). Anecdotally, between 2-5 a week will be for >50 vouchers, with between 0-2 for more than 100. This feels close to 90-95% of the drops are for 5-7 vouchers (with the occasional 18-20 voucher nirn armor one)

Subbed account gets between 25-30 a week (about a 9% drop rate) (That can be attributed to motif knowledge on the main account is greater than the unsubbed account), with similar amounts of "big" voucher amounts.

Admittedly, the number of "big" voucher master writs is only anecdotal evidence, since I haven't tracked those, but I have tracked the actual drops of just master writs in general. I do all of my master writs weekly on one character (for those types at least), and there is almost always at least 1 that is for over 100, and another 4-8 a week that are in the 50-90 range. (I mail the master writs from the unsubbed account over to the subbed account to complete the writs)

omfg, you just backed me up!! WE'RE FRIENDS AGAIN!

tmbrinks wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

One thing I have noticed is when new motifs sets are added, the master writ rewards seem to get a little worse. When I learn the number of sets added, then it goes back up.

It is like the reward table is divided by the number of motif sets. No, I have no proof, it is what I have noticed consistently.

It is exactly that. They have stated it in the patch notes. Having "All" of the motifs that count for the drop chance bonus is the maximum.

so they changed it from [per motif]? That is what it was before, right?

There was always a "pool" of motifs that would count towards getting the maximum drop rate for master writs. Having ALL of them would be the maximum. The way that I understand it, the increase that you get is based on what portion of those motifs that you have. For example, say the drop rate with no motif knowledge is 6%, and with knowing all is 16% (This is about the range my personal testing shows). If you know half of the motifs, you'd have a 11% chance at a drop. Thus, when they add more motifs to the pool that count, your percentage would be less, and your drop chance would drop accordingly. Them adding more motifs to the pool doesn't increase your chance. By learning all the "new" ones, you are simply bringing your odds back up to the maximum

FlopsyPrince

So newer players like me have little chance of getting them. What a wonderful move! /s

tmbrinks

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

So newer players like me have little chance of getting them. What a wonderful move! /s

Yes. A master crafter is one that knows more things about crafting. They chose to use motif knowledge for the basis of that for Blacksmithing/Clothing/Woodworking. The rest of us all had to buy/earn/farm the motifs to learn all of them. Yours will be significantly cheaper to buy, with the anniversary events they've had the last few years that dump an ungodly amount of motifs on the market, lowering the prices dramatically. They're easier to farm, since the dungeons are easier/more dps/etc...

Don't really understand the complaint. They don't use any exclusive motifs in the calculation (crown store motifs), so they are all earnable in game.

rothtwinsdad

I agree haven't gotten any master writs over 7 vouchers in over a month

rothtwinsdad

Grand master crafter by the way

Feric51

tmbrinks wrote: »

There was always a "pool" of motifs that would count towards getting the maximum drop rate for master writs. Having ALL of them would be the maximum. The way that I understand it, the increase that you get is based on what portion of those motifs that you have. For example, say the drop rate with no motif knowledge is 6%, and with knowing all is 16% (This is about the range my personal testing shows). If you know half of the motifs, you'd have a 11% chance at a drop. Thus, when they add more motifs to the pool that count, your percentage would be less, and your drop chance would drop accordingly. Them adding more motifs to the pool doesn't increase your chance. By learning all the "new" ones, you are simply bringing your odds back up to the maximum

@tmbrinks Since ZOS doesn't ever let us know what equations they use, your statement could potentially be true, but going back to one of their official statements from soon after master writs were introduced we were given the following nugget of wisdom. (Originally posted 02/17/2017)

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

feyii wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying this! I would also be interested in how exactly the completed Motifs increase our chances to receive a Master Writ. Is it each known Motif or the percentage of known Motifs out of all that are currently available which increases our chances? In the latter case, this would mean, whenever new Motifs are introduced, our chances are reduced again.

Your chance to get Master Writs will not go down when new Motifs are added to the game; your chance will only go up in small increments as you get more.

I would like to think @ZOS_JessicaFolsom's statement still holds true and that all the motifs added in the 2+ years since Homestead are only increasing the master writ drop rate and not simply resetting the status quo.

tmbrinks

Feric51 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

There was always a "pool" of motifs that would count towards getting the maximum drop rate for master writs. Having ALL of them would be the maximum. The way that I understand it, the increase that you get is based on what portion of those motifs that you have. For example, say the drop rate with no motif knowledge is 6%, and with knowing all is 16% (This is about the range my personal testing shows). If you know half of the motifs, you'd have a 11% chance at a drop. Thus, when they add more motifs to the pool that count, your percentage would be less, and your drop chance would drop accordingly. Them adding more motifs to the pool doesn't increase your chance. By learning all the "new" ones, you are simply bringing your odds back up to the maximum

@tmbrinks Since ZOS doesn't ever let us know what equations they use, your statement could potentially be true, but going back to one of their official statements from soon after master writs were introduced we were given the following nugget of wisdom. (Originally posted 02/17/2017)

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

feyii wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying this! I would also be interested in how exactly the completed Motifs increase our chances to receive a Master Writ. Is it each known Motif or the percentage of known Motifs out of all that are currently available which increases our chances? In the latter case, this would mean, whenever new Motifs are introduced, our chances are reduced again.

Your chance to get Master Writs will not go down when new Motifs are added to the game; your chance will only go up in small increments as you get more.

I would like to think @ZOS_JessicaFolsom's statement still holds true and that all the motifs added in the 2+ years since Homestead are only increasing the master writ drop rate and not simply resetting the status quo.

Thanks for sharing that @Feric51 , I had not seen that statement before. It might be a linear thing (or perhaps logarithmic) to the drop chance, for it to go up when new motifs are added to the drop chance rate. I'm just trying to figure out how they'd come up with the chance to drop, so that it's always increasing, but not going to infinity as we get many more motifs, as that'd be game breaking. Maybe a reciprocal function where the incremental change gets smaller the more motifs that you have?

. . . . . . . . . . n
Perhaps k * Σ (1/n)
. . . . . . . . . . i=0

where k is some constant, and n is the number of motifs that you know. Thus diminishing returns, but always increasing. (Periods are there for spacing... stupid forum text editor)

Anyways, thanks for sharing!

BringerOfOmens

The only thing I have noticed, and mind you it's only by my "feely feels" is the drop rate seems to drop seems to lessen significantly during events. No idea why that would be but thats what it feels like

SoLooney

Grimm13 wrote: »

One thing I have noticed is when new motifs sets are added, the master writ rewards seem to get a little worse. When I learn the number of sets added, then it goes back up.

It is like the reward table is divided by the number of motif sets. No, I have no proof, it is what I have noticed consistently.

Zos stated the chance doesnt go down, it only goes up as you learn more full set motifs.

I get about 10 to 15 mw a week, doing it on 5 tons, 99perc are between 5 to 8. I'll occasionally get the 80 plus one, my main crafter who is 9 trait and knows most motifs mostly gets the most writs and the most valuable ones. But my 8 trait crafters who hardly know any motifs get mw, but rarely and even rarer when its 80 plus