Elephant in the Room: +2% Healing Done is too small of a set bonus

Roboplus

If Argonians absolutely must have +Healing Done (they don't, +Restoration Staff xp is enough for flavor) then the reason ZOS felt the need to inflate their +Healing Done from the equivalent of a 2 set bonus into a 3 set bonus (technically making Argonian racials unfairly stacked) is because 2% per bonus is too small. And that doesn't apply to just Argonians, it's a global issue everywhere the 2% set bonus exists.

To be roughly equivalent to a 129 Spell Damage set bonus in realistic situations, it would need to be 3%. And that would still make it inferior because Healing Done only effects healing, while Spell Damage effects Healing and Damage.

I can maybe understand the original thought process. Healing Done effects all heals, both Stamina and Magicka, making it a hybrid stat (and hybrid stats are typically lower than focused stats). But technically, Spell and Weapon Damage are also hybrid stats, as they effect both Damage and Healing. And since there are so few Stamina Heals to use on others, there's very little room to utilize Healing Done as a hybrid stat, making it an even worse stat when at a reduced value.

This is made even more obtuse because Healing Received, which effects both your own self heals and any heals used on you, is 4% as a set bonus. That's double the 2% Healing Done set bonus. And yet, CP treats +Healing Done and +Healing Received with the same weight (1 point for each is 0.3%, scaling down).

The 2% Healing Done value seems like a decision that they made earlier in the game's development (right or wrong) and then changed on when CP was added, but never addressed elsewhere.

The fix I'm proposing is: Double the +Healing Done set bonus from 2% to 4% on all 2-4 armor piece set bonuses. Then reduce the Argonian +Healing Done racial passive from a triple set bonus to a double. This would result in an increase from +6% Healing Done, to +8% Healing Done on Argonians (which would give them the strongest heals) and a set bonus on armors that players don't actively avoid.

WrathOfInnos

You’re right about 2% healing done being inferior to other standard set bonuses (1096 Magicka, 129 Spell Damage, 833 Spell Crit). 3% would be closer to the same amount of healing as any of these, but I could get onboard with the 4% you recommend since it is more limited in use (the other bonuses all increase damage as well as healing).

The only part I disagree with is that Argonians need more healing done. They’re already in a good place for healers, and this would only force them more into that role. Their tanking bonuses are what suffered with the passive changes (lower health, sustain, and healing taken). Even more than tanking, Argonians are far behind other races in damage, and I’d rather see a buff that boosted their DPS. 2 standard set bonuses of Spell Crit (around 8%) would be close to the equivalent 6% healing done, while also making them more competitive with the Magicka damage races in PVE. It wouldn’t do much in PVP with the Impenetrable meta.

Olupajmibanan

You mistake healing received (present in DK passive or Sanctuary set) and healing taken.

While the change might be nice, I don't think it would make Argonians a competitive pick.
If you are a top leaderboard god you'd choose Nord.
If you are not going for leaderboard score you'd choose Breton. I would never drop sustain for some slight healing increase and I think that a lot of players agree with me. Sadly, we are not healers, we are orb and prayer slaves, so sustain > healing.

Roboplus

I don't disagree with either of you. But we've been beating the "we don't want +Healing Done" drum for 3-4 weeks now.

I'm a lot of things, but crazy isn't one of them. I'm willing to try a different approach. And, even if Argonians ultimately do get a different passive, +2% Healing Done will still be an awful armor set bonus. Something should be done about that either way.

katorga

Argonian healing done, and all of their passives combined, pale compared to Breton cast reduction in usefulness.

Breton 7% cost reduction is 87.5% of a five piece Seducer set bonus. Orc, Altmer, Dunmer weapon/spell damage bonuses are 86% of a five piece Hundings/Julianos bonus.

Argonian 6% healing done is 60% of a five piece Twilight's Embrace set bonus. Argonian should be 8% healing done to be fair.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

. Argonian 6% healing done is 60% of a five piece Twilight's Embrace set bonus. Argonian should be 8% healing done to be fair.

Twilights embrace is healing received, which is always double healing done. What you ought to be comparing it to is healers habit, which is 8% healing done and fits your suggestion pretty closely.

Also, sets bonuses, five piece and mundus are generally balanced against each other in the following way-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/365904/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-1-5-horns-of-the-reach

. Mundus Stone values and bonuses have been re-tuned with a focus on improving overall diversity. The Lady was upgraded to grant both Spell and Physical Resistance, and The Lover was completely redesigned to grant Spell and Physical Penetration to counteract The Lady and provide greater flexibility in stat choices.

We’ve also standardized Mundus Stone values against other systems that grant similar bonuses, such as enchantments or Item Sets, so you can customize the stats you care about in each system without needing to worry about weighing the exact values against each other. Mundus Stones are now equivalent to 1.85x of an Item Set bonus.

. Similar to how Mundus Stones were changed, Weapon Trait values have also been rebalanced with a focus on improving overall diversity. Weapon Trait values have a 1:1 pairing with the effectiveness of Mundus Stones; this means if you want armor, you can get the Lady Mundus Stone or a Defending weapon and they will both give you 2752 armor.

. The bonus for having 5 pieces is approximately 2.31x the value of a one-piece bonus. For example, you can get a set bonus of 129 Spell Damage, or a 5-piece bonus of 299 Spell Damage on Julianos.

Some sets, such as Necropotence, have conditional bonuses. Since it’s harder to get these bonuses, we are allowing them to provide up to a 25% increase over other sets. This is why Draugr Hulk now gives 2540 max resource and Necropotence now gives 3150. .

From what we have seen, racials are generally a set bonus* 2. Not compared to a sets 5 piece.

ALeoCat_ESO

I would think you'd be hard pressed to find a healer who disagreed with this sentiment. As a further example, every healer I know, and every healer build I've seen online, recommends taking the Atronach mundus stone, which when compared to set pieces gives less than 2 bonuses of magicka recovery (before divine pieces). while the Ritual stone would give a comparative 5 set pieces in healing done bonuses.

This makes the pigeonholing of Argonian's healing passive even worse, as healers who aren't going to take the Ritual over Atronach, are going to scoff at the comparison to Breton's passives.

On a somewhat related note it's also strange that all flat resource bonuses for race seem to give the same weight to Health, Stamina, and Magicka, even though other sources of stacking these resources give larger bonuses to health. Thus any race getting health from their passives gets less total resources than others.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

To the op, I would actually change the healing done percentage as well. Since by ZOSs own rules, 2% healing done on an item set piece is not even close. 10/1.85 is 5.4. the healing done on a set piece ought to be 5% would make it more valuable. There are no sets (in the game that drops now, there was a 3 piece set, relics of the Physician, which was 5%) with healing done as a 5 piece, except for healers habit but that is a minor buff, of 8%. I would change that set to 2.31 of 5% or 12%. You might see healers use it then. You also need to buff powered to match the mundus, from 9% to 10%.

WrathOfInnos

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

To the op, I would actually change the healing done percentage as well. Since by ZOSs own rules, 2% healing done on an item set piece is not even close. 10/1.85 is 5.4. the healing done on a set piece ought to be 5% would make it more valuable. There are no sets (in the game that drops now, there was a 3 piece set, relics of the Physician, which was 5%) with healing done as a 5 piece, except for healers habit but that is a minor buff, of 8%. I would change that set to 2.31 of 5% or 12%. You might see healers use it then. You also need to buff powered to match the mundus, from 9% to 10%.

This is a really good way of looking at it. I’m convinced. Ritual Mundus and Powered trait should be made the same value, and a standard healing done set bonus should be 5%.

Another way to look at this is compared to the Sanctuary set. It’s technically healing received, but applies to 12 players so effectively serves as healing done (by you and any other healers). It gives 12% healing as a 5pc bonus. Based on that a standard healing done bonus would be 12%/2.31 = 5.19%, confirming your 5%. Maybe this means that Powered and Ritual should be 5x1.85 = 9%. And Argonian should have 5x2 = 10% healing done (although I’d still rather see them get a DPS passive that also helped with heals).

katorga

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

To the op, I would actually change the healing done percentage as well. Since by ZOSs own rules, 2% healing done on an item set piece is not even close. 10/1.85 is 5.4. the healing done on a set piece ought to be 5% would make it more valuable. There are no sets (in the game that drops now, there was a 3 piece set, relics of the Physician, which was 5%) with healing done as a 5 piece, except for healers habit but that is a minor buff, of 8%. I would change that set to 2.31 of 5% or 12%. You might see healers use it then. You also need to buff powered to match the mundus, from 9% to 10%.

This is a really good way of looking at it. I’m convinced. Ritual Mundus and Powered trait should be made the same value, and a standard healing done set bonus should be 5%.

Another way to look at this is compared to the Sanctuary set. It’s technically healing received, but applies to 12 players so effectively serves as healing done (by you and any other healers). It gives 12% healing as a 5pc bonus. Based on that a standard healing done bonus would be 12%/2.31 = 5.19%, confirming your 5%. Maybe this means that Powered and Ritual should be 5x1.85 = 9%. And Argonian should have 5x2 = 10% healing done (although I’d still rather see them get a DPS passive that also helped with heals).

I agree, 8-10% seems right for Argonian.

I know ZOS says set bonus * 2, but they also seem to be 5th piece bonus times 85%for some races. 258 damage is close to 2x a set bonus, but also 86% of a 5th piece hundings/julianos bonus. Breton cost reduction is 86% of the Seducer 5th piece bonus (and a very hard to get bonus). The Argonian healing passive is 2x a set bonus, but only 60% of a healing 5th piece bonus like Twilights Embrace.

twing1_

katorga wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

To the op, I would actually change the healing done percentage as well. Since by ZOSs own rules, 2% healing done on an item set piece is not even close. 10/1.85 is 5.4. the healing done on a set piece ought to be 5% would make it more valuable. There are no sets (in the game that drops now, there was a 3 piece set, relics of the Physician, which was 5%) with healing done as a 5 piece, except for healers habit but that is a minor buff, of 8%. I would change that set to 2.31 of 5% or 12%. You might see healers use it then. You also need to buff powered to match the mundus, from 9% to 10%.

This is a really good way of looking at it. I’m convinced. Ritual Mundus and Powered trait should be made the same value, and a standard healing done set bonus should be 5%.

Another way to look at this is compared to the Sanctuary set. It’s technically healing received, but applies to 12 players so effectively serves as healing done (by you and any other healers). It gives 12% healing as a 5pc bonus. Based on that a standard healing done bonus would be 12%/2.31 = 5.19%, confirming your 5%. Maybe this means that Powered and Ritual should be 5x1.85 = 9%. And Argonian should have 5x2 = 10% healing done (although I’d still rather see them get a DPS passive that also helped with heals).

I agree, 8-10% seems right for Argonian.

I know ZOS says set bonus * 2, but they also seem to be 5th piece bonus times 85%for some races. 258 damage is close to 2x a set bonus, but also 86% of a 5th piece hundings/julianos bonus. Breton cost reduction is 86% of the Seducer 5th piece bonus (and a very hard to get bonus). The Argonian healing passive is 2x a set bonus, but only 60% of a healing 5th piece bonus like Twilights Embrace.

Twilights embrace grants 10% healing received, not healing done.

Argonians on PTS currently have 6% healing done, not healing received.

Comparing the argonian bonus to twilights embrace is like comparing altmers spell damage to armor of the Seducer's 5th pc bonus.

That being said, 2% healing done is a joke, not just on argonians but on all sets that have this bonus. It definitely needs a boost globally. I would recommend bumping it up to 4% healing done to better match the 4% healing received counter part and also give it an advantage over 129 spell damage (as 3% healing done roughly translates to 129 spell damage as per prior comments on this thread).

A specialized set bonus (like healing done) should out class a general bonus to spell damage, on account of its very specific uses.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

katorga wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

To the op, I would actually change the healing done percentage as well. Since by ZOSs own rules, 2% healing done on an item set piece is not even close. 10/1.85 is 5.4. the healing done on a set piece ought to be 5% would make it more valuable. There are no sets (in the game that drops now, there was a 3 piece set, relics of the Physician, which was 5%) with healing done as a 5 piece, except for healers habit but that is a minor buff, of 8%. I would change that set to 2.31 of 5% or 12%. You might see healers use it then. You also need to buff powered to match the mundus, from 9% to 10%.

This is a really good way of looking at it. I’m convinced. Ritual Mundus and Powered trait should be made the same value, and a standard healing done set bonus should be 5%.

Another way to look at this is compared to the Sanctuary set. It’s technically healing received, but applies to 12 players so effectively serves as healing done (by you and any other healers). It gives 12% healing as a 5pc bonus. Based on that a standard healing done bonus would be 12%/2.31 = 5.19%, confirming your 5%. Maybe this means that Powered and Ritual should be 5x1.85 = 9%. And Argonian should have 5x2 = 10% healing done (although I’d still rather see them get a DPS passive that also helped with heals).

I agree, 8-10% seems right for Argonian.

I know ZOS says set bonus * 2, but they also seem to be 5th piece bonus times 85%for some races. 258 damage is close to 2x a set bonus, but also 86% of a 5th piece hundings/julianos bonus. Breton cost reduction is 86% of the Seducer 5th piece bonus (and a very hard to get bonus). The Argonian healing passive is 2x a set bonus, but only 60% of a healing 5th piece bonus like Twilights Embrace.

258 damage is exactly 2x a set bonus. also stop comparing healing done to healing received. they are not the same. we have a healing received set piece, it is 4%. as i said, the one healing done 5 piece the game right now is healers habits minor mending at 8%, and 6 is 75% of 8%. right in line with what you are trying to point out. this set, https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Relics_of_the_Physician,_Ansur, was 5% on a three piece but it is no longer in the game.

laissezfaire

Both healing done and healing taken set bonuses should be buffed.

Lughlongarm

there are many inconsistencies like this in the game. Usually they are presented as part of the greater balance of the game.
For example, why SD/WD enchant on glyphs is 174(almost 1.5 "set bonus") while physical and spell resistance enchant on glyphs is 927(0.3 the power of set bonus), which makes SW/WD enchant almost 5 times stronger than the resistances glyhps.

But do you want them to chance that? It will just make almost any spec regardless to armor type to achieve resistance cap.

soynegroyque

Lughlongarm wrote: »

there are many inconsistencies like this in the game. Usually they are presented as part of the greater balance of the game.
For example, why SD/WD enchant on glyphs is 174(almost 1.5 "set bonus") while physical and spell resistance enchant on glyphs is 927(0.3 the power of set bonus), which makes SW/WD enchant almost 5 times stronger than the resistances glyhps.

But do you want them to chance that? It will just make almost any spec regardless to armor type to achieve resistance cap.

Sure, I would be fine with that if armor rating or resistances behaved like other stats.
Armor rating scales linearly and has a cap, and only see diminishing returns when considering other sources of damage reduction.

If resistance was to be treated the same as other stats the cap needs to be lifted and diminishing returns on resistance stacking need to be placed.

Narthalion

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

To the op, I would actually change the healing done percentage as well. Since by ZOSs own rules, 2% healing done on an item set piece is not even close. 10/1.85 is 5.4. the healing done on a set piece ought to be 5% would make it more valuable. There are no sets (in the game that drops now, there was a 3 piece set, relics of the Physician, which was 5%) with healing done as a 5 piece, except for healers habit but that is a minor buff, of 8%. I would change that set to 2.31 of 5% or 12%. You might see healers use it then. You also need to buff powered to match the mundus, from 9% to 10%.

Completely agree with the OP and particularly appreciate this analysis demonstrating that healing done values are falling short of the standard set by other bonuses.

I've played healers in...geez, at least four different MMOs now, starting with my Bard in DAoC. I bet there are plenty of people on this forum who can boast similar amounts of experience. And I suspect pretty much all of them avoid that 2% healing done stat, same as I do. It's tuned way too low. I would take any other applicable stat before healing done.

I can only presume that ZOS must have some sort of defense for why this stat compares so poorly in the math, but I can only guess at what it might be.

As far as suggestions go, if they're concerned about over-powered heals driven by stacking too much of this stat (which is my best guess about why this is screwball), maybe the answer is to make it a "hybrid" stat. The other "gimp" stat I tend to avoid is health recovery, so maybe combine them?

If you saw...
"Adds 2% healing done and 129 health recovery"
...as a 2 or 3 piece set bonus, would you think "yeah, I'll take that" or would it still seem under-powered?

Alternately, be more direct about it and give magicka or stamina recovery. Or even tri-stat? Like...
"Adds 2% healing done and 65 magicka recovery"
...or...
"Adds 2% healing done and 32 magicka, stamina, and health recovery"

But...simplest solution is still to just increase the value of the existing buff to make it on par with other bonuses.

kollege14a5

Finally someone is adressing the important things.
These other people only care about the unplayable lag in cyrodiil and unbalanced snare system or smth like that.
But you finally adress the big elephant in the room. Thank you!

ESO_Nightingale

on my build i'd like to have another +4% healing done lol. argonian healer with troll king XD. seems okay to me.

twing1_

TL;DR: 2% healing done is mathematically outclassed by 129 spell damage in all realistic scenarios and should be brought in line with it's healing taken and received counterparts (to 4%) to provide a tradeoff between these two bonuses in which 4% healing done would beat out 129 spell damage in healing capabilities, but 129 spell damage holds the advantage in damage dealing skills.

I'm not sure if someone has posted this already, but here is the math showing that the only possible way for 2% healing done to out-perform 129 spell damage is to have more than 3500 spell damage, assuming a magicka pool of 30k:

Offensive (healing) power=spell damage*1.2*10.5+ max mag*1.2

Spell damage multiplied by 1.2 for major brutality and 10.5 for the skill coefficient conversion from spell damage into max magicka

Max magicka multiplied by 1.2 for 20% cp increase

The breakpoint at which a set bonus to healing done and spell damage are equal can be found by setting these equations equal to each other: offensive power + spell damage bonus vs offensive power * healing done bonus

Offensive power + 129*1.2*10.5 = offensive power*1.02

129*1.2*10.5=offensive power*1.2 - offensive power

1625.4=offensive power*.02

81,270 = the offensive power at which 2% healing done is the exact equivalent bonus of 129 spell damage in regards to boosting healing effectiveness.

Beyond 81,270 offensive power, 2% healing done out-performs spell damage, and at less than 81,270 offensive power 129 spell damage out-performs 2% healing done.

Assuming 30,000 max magicka, the spell damage required to make 2% healing done out-perform 129 spell damage can be found through the following equation:

81,270-30,000*1.2=spell damage*1.2*10.5

45,270=spell damage*1.2*10.5

3,592.857=spell damage.

This mark is almost impossible to obtain for healers, so in almost all cases healers are better off running 129 spell damage over 2% healing done if they want to increase their healing. But not only does 129 spell damage provide more healing power, it also provides more damage to their damaging skills. So why would anybody run 2% healing done?

2% healing done needs a buff to at the very least make it a more potent source of improving a healer's healing skills. This way, there would be a legitimate tradeoff between healing done and spell damage set bonuses: if a healer wants increases healing, they will run healing done while if a healer wants increased damage, they will run spell damage. As it currently stands, spell damage is getting the best of both worlds.

Bumping up the healing done bonus to 4% would work wonders in remedying this (not to mention also bringing it directly in line with its healing taken and healing received counterparts). Here is the math:

Offensive power+129*1.2*10.5=offensive power*1.04

1625.4=offensive power*.04

40,635=offensive power

Assuming 30k max magicka again, this would allow healing done to out-perform spell damage bonuses in all scenarios in which healers have more than 367 spell damage (yes, only 367 total spell damage).

40,635-30,000*1.2=spell damage*1.2*10.5

4,635 = spell damage*1.2*10.5

Spell damage=367.857

Simply equipping a weapon of any type would allow 4% healing done to perform better than 129 spell damage, strictly in regards to increasing healing potency. Conversely, spell damage would hold the advantage when dealing damage, as it should.

It is important to note that healing done affects item set proc heals but spell damage does not. It is also important to note that these equations do not take into account spell critical values, but I doubt the addition of this dimension would drastically change anything (as these values interact multiplicatively with both sides of the equation, and would mathematically cancel each other out).

It makes no sense that healing done is being outclassed by spell damage bonuses in all ways, including boosting the user's healing done (ironically), especially when you take into account simply boosting healing done to 4% to better match its healing taken and received counterparts would remedy the problem.

twing1_

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

To the op, I would actually change the healing done percentage as well. Since by ZOSs own rules, 2% healing done on an item set piece is not even close. 10/1.85 is 5.4. the healing done on a set piece ought to be 5% would make it more valuable. There are no sets (in the game that drops now, there was a 3 piece set, relics of the Physician, which was 5%) with healing done as a 5 piece, except for healers habit but that is a minor buff, of 8%. I would change that set to 2.31 of 5% or 12%. You might see healers use it then. You also need to buff powered to match the mundus, from 9% to 10%.

This is a really good way of looking at it. I’m convinced. Ritual Mundus and Powered trait should be made the same value, and a standard healing done set bonus should be 5%.

Another way to look at this is compared to the Sanctuary set. It’s technically healing received, but applies to 12 players so effectively serves as healing done (by you and any other healers). It gives 12% healing as a 5pc bonus. Based on that a standard healing done bonus would be 12%/2.31 = 5.19%, confirming your 5%. Maybe this means that Powered and Ritual should be 5x1.85 = 9%. And Argonian should have 5x2 = 10% healing done (although I’d still rather see them get a DPS passive that also helped with heals).

These are very good points, but it is important to remember that sanctuary has a fairly strong conditional built into its 5 pc bonus: players must be within 10m of the wearer.

Because of this conditional, it can be subject to a coefficient of up to 2.8875, and not the 2.31 as flat bonuses are subjected to.

With this in mind, the set bonus would jump down to ~4% (12/2.8875). I do not believe this is exactly in line with current 2-4pc item set bonuses to healing taken and received by coincidence. I believe this is the value healing done should be changed to.

The ritual mundus and powered should then be changed to somewhere around ~7.5% (4x1.85). This number is also very close to the current numbers for critical chance on the thief mundus and precise weapons.

It all seems to line up too perfectly to be coincidental.

Iskiab

I don’t like the sound of reducing powered staves and the healing mundus. Not only would it be less healing from me (and I like big numbers) but it would make the spell power and healing mundus too close in values. There would be no reason to choose the healing mundus.

While balance is good you also have to look at the big picture. Balancing healing done so it’s consistent is a moot point, what competes for slots is sp, magicka regen and healing done on staves/mundus. If you balance sets around 4 and 8 percent people will use the magicka regen mundus and nirnhoned staves.

It’ll essentially be a buff for classes with strong hybrid dps (templars and wardens). There should be a 3:2 or more gain for choosing to specialize in healing.

commdt

Roboplus wrote: »

This is made even more obtuse because Healing Received, which effects both your own self heals and any heals used on you, is 4% as a set bonus. That's double the 2% Healing Done set bonus. And yet, CP treats +Healing Done and +Healing Received with the same weight (1 point for each is 0.3%, scaling down).

Note that the "recived" bonus is per target. So It is 1 set bonus for healer to affect healing on 2 targets by 2% or it would take 2 "healing taken" bonuses on both targets for the same effect.
If there were 8 healers and 4 others in a raid party, then bonus strength could be as well switched

Alucardo

I'm wondering if it would be better to have something simple like "Adds 258 spell/weapon damage to your healing abilities". I'm not what you'd call a number cruncher, so no idea if that value makes things better or worse, but you get the idea.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

commdt wrote: »

Roboplus wrote: »

This is made even more obtuse because Healing Received, which effects both your own self heals and any heals used on you, is 4% as a set bonus. That's double the 2% Healing Done set bonus. And yet, CP treats +Healing Done and +Healing Received with the same weight (1 point for each is 0.3%, scaling down).

Note that the "recived" bonus is per target. So It is 1 set bonus for healer to affect healing on 2 targets by 2% or it would take 2 "healing taken" bonuses on both targets for the same effect.
If there were 8 healers and 4 others in a raid party, then bonus strength could be as well switched

what does any of this even mean?

srmalloy

Narthalion wrote: »

I can only presume that ZOS must have some sort of defense for why this stat compares so poorly in the math, but I can only guess at what it might be.

If I had to guess, I'd say that it was based on the assumption that the healing bonus was applied to an AoE, and thereby healed as many targets as there were in the AoE -- 2% times 4 targets (you and the other three people on your team), for example. I agree that this still seems low, as the situations where you have a larger group (i.e., dolmens) are likely to be more spread out, limiting the number of people in the AoE, and the bonus should scale based on the number of targets the ability can affect (single-target heals should be a much higher bonus).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

srmalloy wrote: »

Narthalion wrote: »

I can only presume that ZOS must have some sort of defense for why this stat compares so poorly in the math, but I can only guess at what it might be.

If I had to guess, I'd say that it was based on the assumption that the healing bonus was applied to an AoE, and thereby healed as many targets as there were in the AoE -- 2% times 4 targets (you and the other three people on your team), for example. I agree that this still seems low, as the situations where you have a larger group (i.e., dolmens) are likely to be more spread out, limiting the number of people in the AoE, and the bonus should scale based on the number of targets the ability can affect (single-target heals should be a much higher bonus).

the most players any aoe heal can hit at one time, outside minor health steal, is only 6. so that argument is bunk.

twing1_

srmalloy wrote: »

Narthalion wrote: »

I can only presume that ZOS must have some sort of defense for why this stat compares so poorly in the math, but I can only guess at what it might be.

If I had to guess, I'd say that it was based on the assumption that the healing bonus was applied to an AoE, and thereby healed as many targets as there were in the AoE -- 2% times 4 targets (you and the other three people on your team), for example. I agree that this still seems low, as the situations where you have a larger group (i.e., dolmens) are likely to be more spread out, limiting the number of people in the AoE, and the bonus should scale based on the number of targets the ability can affect (single-target heals should be a much higher bonus).

Spell damage also affects aoe heals, and as it currently stands even a set bonus to spell damage (129 spell damage) out performs 2% healing done strictly in terms of healing power. That's not to mention that spell damage has the additional benefit of increasing the power of damage dealing abilities as well. My earlier comment outlines the math behind this:

twing1_ wrote: »

TL;DR: 2% healing done is mathematically outclassed by 129 spell damage in all realistic scenarios and should be brought in line with it's healing taken and received counterparts (to 4%) to provide a tradeoff between these two bonuses in which 4% healing done would beat out 129 spell damage in healing capabilities, but 129 spell damage holds the advantage in damage dealing skills.

I'm not sure if someone has posted this already, but here is the math showing that the only possible way for 2% healing done to out-perform 129 spell damage is to have more than 3500 spell damage, assuming a magicka pool of 30k:

Offensive (healing) power=spell damage*1.2*10.5+ max mag*1.2

Spell damage multiplied by 1.2 for major brutality and 10.5 for the skill coefficient conversion from spell damage into max magicka

Max magicka multiplied by 1.2 for 20% cp increase

The breakpoint at which a set bonus to healing done and spell damage are equal can be found by setting these equations equal to each other: offensive power + spell damage bonus vs offensive power * healing done bonus

Offensive power + 129*1.2*10.5 = offensive power*1.02

129*1.2*10.5=offensive power*1.2 - offensive power

1625.4=offensive power*.02

81,270 = the offensive power at which 2% healing done is the exact equivalent bonus of 129 spell damage in regards to boosting healing effectiveness.

Beyond 81,270 offensive power, 2% healing done out-performs spell damage, and at less than 81,270 offensive power 129 spell damage out-performs 2% healing done.

Assuming 30,000 max magicka, the spell damage required to make 2% healing done out-perform 129 spell damage can be found through the following equation:

81,270-30,000*1.2=spell damage*1.2*10.5

45,270=spell damage*1.2*10.5

3,592.857=spell damage.

This mark is almost impossible to obtain for healers, so in almost all cases healers are better off running 129 spell damage over 2% healing done if they want to increase their healing. But not only does 129 spell damage provide more healing power, it also provides more damage to their damaging skills. So why would anybody run 2% healing done?

2% healing done needs a buff to at the very least make it a more potent source of improving a healer's healing skills. This way, there would be a legitimate tradeoff between healing done and spell damage set bonuses: if a healer wants increases healing, they will run healing done while if a healer wants increased damage, they will run spell damage. As it currently stands, spell damage is getting the best of both worlds.

Bumping up the healing done bonus to 4% would work wonders in remedying this (not to mention also bringing it directly in line with its healing taken and healing received counterparts). Here is the math:

Offensive power+129*1.2*10.5=offensive power*1.04

1625.4=offensive power*.04

40,635=offensive power

Assuming 30k max magicka again, this would allow healing done to out-perform spell damage bonuses in all scenarios in which healers have more than 367 spell damage (yes, only 367 total spell damage).

40,635-30,000*1.2=spell damage*1.2*10.5

4,635 = spell damage*1.2*10.5

Spell damage=367.857

Simply equipping a weapon of any type would allow 4% healing done to perform better than 129 spell damage, strictly in regards to increasing healing potency. Conversely, spell damage would hold the advantage when dealing damage, as it should.

It is important to note that healing done affects item set proc heals but spell damage does not. It is also important to note that these equations do not take into account spell critical values, but I doubt the addition of this dimension would drastically change anything (as these values interact multiplicatively with both sides of the equation, and would mathematically cancel each other out).

It makes no sense that healing done is being outclassed by spell damage bonuses in all ways, including boosting the user's healing done (ironically), especially when you take into account simply boosting healing done to 4% to better match its healing taken and received counterparts would remedy the problem.

The only advantage 2% healing done holds over 129 spell damage is that it affects proc heals (from item sets and things like siphoning attacks on nb or crit surge on sorc) and spell damage does not. Even still, I don't believe this makes 2% healing done worth it.

Iskiab

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

the most players any aoe heal can hit at one time, outside minor health steal, is only 6. so that argument is bunk.

This isn’t true because of ultimates.

Either way 2% healing done sucks. It’s an oversight, nothing more.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

the most players any aoe heal can hit at one time, outside minor health steal, is only 6. so that argument is bunk.

This isn’t true because of ultimates.

Either way 2% healing done sucks. It’s an oversight, nothing more.

even healing ultis can only hit 6 people per tick.