Are the megaservers holding the game back?

Suddwrath

Currently, there are only two megaservers per platform: NA and EU. Which means regardless of where you live in the world you can only connect to one of these two megaservers. While a novel idea at launch, do you think this design may be holding the game back from a performance standpoint? Obviously, someone in Australia is not going to have the same experience as someone in Texas despite both players playing on the same server.

Do you think it is time for the megaservers to be retired and replaced with more distributed, localized servers (West NA, East NA, Oceanic, West EU, etc)?

Nestor

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

Thing to understand about the MegaServers, they can increase in capacity in relation to the populations. AWS is the hosting center and their nom de plume is scalable server platforms.

Back at launch, the zones were jammed with players and PvP campaigns were packed. Performance was fine although even then people grumbled about PvP performance, it was much better than now.

ArchangelIsraphel

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

I think splitting the population, especially halving NA as "west" and "east" is a terrible idea- games that have done this usually end up merging these servers in the long run because the population on either one is never big enough, and people are inconvenienced by needing to play/level/make purchases on the other server just to be with their friends on the other side of the country. It's really bad enough that my NA purchases don't count on the EU server even though it's the same account...we really don't need more splitting between servers.

Mr_Walker

Nestor wrote: »

Thing to understand about the MegaServers, they can increase in capacity in relation to the populations. AWS is the hosting center and their nom de plume is scalable server platforms.

Back at launch, the zones were jammed with players and PvP campaigns were packed. Performance was fine although even then people grumbled about PvP performance, it was much better than now.

Whilst I say no, you misunderstand the issue here. As an Aussie, I have to be quicker and better than someone living "locally" to a server, just because of distance latency. Nothing to do with scalablity.

Tandor

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

If the number of players in that region justified an Oceanic megaserver then that would be one thing, but I don't see the justification for the whole server structure being changed. A megaserver is actually a cluster of servers in effect and can be added to as needed. Regardless of the nature of the server structure those on the other side of the world are always going to struggle performance-wise unless they have their own regional server structure - and given that the game's population is split between three platforms which would therefore necessitate three new megaservers I doubt it would be remotely viable to create additional regional megaservers, much tho' I appreciate the problems experienced by Australasian players.

Nestor

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Thing to understand about the MegaServers, they can increase in capacity in relation to the populations. AWS is the hosting center and their nom de plume is scalable server platforms.

Back at launch, the zones were jammed with players and PvP campaigns were packed. Performance was fine although even then people grumbled about PvP performance, it was much better than now.

Whilst I say no, you misunderstand the issue here. As an Aussie, I have to be quicker and better than someone living "locally" to a server, just because of distance latency. Nothing to do with scalablity.

@Mr_Walker

An Oceanic Mega Server is an entirely different issue. One I agree needs to be implemented. Of course where to put it is a big part of the discussion.

Wildberryjack

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

All I can think of here is how WoW has maybe 100 servers and they're all dead. They had to do sharding and cross realm so you actually saw another player when you were out questing or whatever. So, no thanks. The fewer servers the better, don't spread everyone out.

Seraphayel

Other

I'd really like to know what's "mega" about the servers.

Guild Wars 2 has applied a very similar system and their servers seem to be a million times better than ESO's.

Mintaka5

Yes, replace the two megaservers per platform with more distributed servers

Outdated game networking. Most new MMO games are all building around AWS (or whatever distributed cloud service). ZOS is making money, so why aren't they reinvesting it into their server infrastructure? Answer: GREED!

Gythral

Seraphayel wrote: »

I'd really like to know what's "mega" about the servers.

.../quote]

the lag....

victory.immortalb16_ESO

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

Seraphayel wrote: »

I'd really like to know what's "mega" about the servers.

Guild Wars 2 has applied a very similar system and their servers seem to be a million times better than ESO's.

Until you actually try and have a few dozen people all fighting each other in the same area, then the lag is legendary.

eso_lags

Other

victory.immortalb16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I'd really like to know what's "mega" about the servers.

Guild Wars 2 has applied a very similar system and their servers seem to be a million times better than ESO's.

Until you actually try and have a few dozen people all fighting each other in the same area, then the lag is legendary.

In my experience in large gw2 battles the performance is a million times better than eso. On my old PC it could get bad, on my newer PC its fine. So I dont think its the server. As for ESO I noticed very little change but im guessing its because gw2 is more demanding.

Eso is just terrible. Terrible when a ton of people get in one zone together, like cyrodil, and terrible at all times in vivec. No matter where you are in vivec you are most likely lagging, and if its a big fight good luck.

Anyway, I dont think splitting people up is a great idea, unless its a region of the world that needs it because of performance issues playing on the other servers. I say this because, as a pvp player, only one campaign (on xbox) is populated. The rest are usually dead. I feel like splitting people up would make that even worse.

But I also think eso has a serious server issues. I cant think of any other reason performance would be so bad, compared to similar games, when a lot of people are in one zone. The point of pvp was large scale battles, but if you go and try to do that you are met with unplayable lag. Thats an issue from the core of this game. But it also depends on the amount of players in that campaign. 50v50 in vivec is not the same as 50v50 in shor. There will be lag, for sure, but one is worse. Something needs to be done, idk what though.

Billdor

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Outdated game networking. Most new MMO games are all building around AWS. ZOS is making money, so why aren't they reinvesting it into their server infrastructure? Answer: GREED!

As someone who works in IT, I'd like to see you come up with:


A) A source of their server infrastructure.
B. A business case for cloud bursting.
C) Your qualifcation in Cloud Computer (AWS, Azure, etc) to show you aren't chatting ***.

Thanks.

Starlock

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

Considering all of our characters and most crown store purchases are married to the server?

Under absolutely no circumstances should any changes to this infrastructure be done unless we are guaranteed our purchases and characters transfer over to new servers.

Mintaka5

Yes, replace the two megaservers per platform with more distributed servers

Billdor wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Outdated game networking. Most new MMO games are all building around AWS. ZOS is making money, so why aren't they reinvesting it into their server infrastructure? Answer: GREED!

As someone who works in IT, I'd like to see you come up with:


A) A source of their server infrastructure.
B. A business case for cloud bursting.
C) Your qualifcation in Cloud Computer (AWS, Azure, etc) to show you aren't chatting ***.

Thanks.

This is an open forum. I don't have to present my credentials to you or any other casual person wanting to discuss this game's infrastructure. If you are going to counter my argument you better come at me with a better attempt, other than character assassination.

UPDATE:

Now that I thought this over, I thought I'd better explain why the megaserver holds this game back in the frame of an article I read years ago about a guy who decided that mining bitcoin on his own hardware was a waste of time, money and resources, and when he gained access to AWS in it's early stages he could dynamically spin up 100s of servers, to handle all the processing virtually, and didn't spend a dime by exploiting free tier services. If ZOS cannot see the financial and long-term benefits of escaping early 2000 tech infrastructure, then the game deserves to be held back.

Elsonso

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

I actually wish the opposite. I wish they could reduce the number of megaservers by merging NA and EU together on all platforms.

nafensoriel

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Outdated game networking. Most new MMO games are all building around AWS (or whatever distributed cloud service). ZOS is making money, so why aren't they reinvesting it into their server infrastructure? Answer: GREED!

What do you think a megaserver is? The only difference between a cloud server and a megaserver is where it is located. Functionally they are identical.

Shantu

The issue is much more complex than breaking up a megaserver structure. The Internet was created based on the principle of a path of least resistance. This way if part of the structure fails, connections are automatically re-routed to maintain the integrity of the whole. It's not like any one connection to the megaservers is always constant and follows the same route as though you were hardwired directly. Your connection is a fluid and constantly changing path of least resistance. Sometimes this path produces lag. This is the main reason you see constant fluctuations in your ping value. That's not to say there aren't issues with the game servers that can't be improved. But the issue is much more complex than putting all blame on a single structures of servers. It's actually a technical marvel that online gaming, particularly one with the graphic complexity of ESO, works as well as it does.

Myrkgrav

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

I personally don't like when a game has a million servers. IMO, having one or two servers makes a world feel actually alive and real because there's always tons of people around. Then if you have friends in one server you gotta swap over to another blah blah it's a PITA. I get the issue with latency but I guess that kind of comes with living in the middle of the ocean.

AhPook_Is_Here

Yes, replace the two megaservers per platform with more distributed servers

I don't know what these things are but my favorite color is red.

lokulin

Yes, replace the two megaservers per platform with more distributed servers

Saying yes because there is no technical reason you you can't do things like instance four Australian players in to a vDSA hosted out of Sydney while still being connected to the NA megaserver. It would also be technically possible to merge all account, chat, grouping, trade functionality across regions and platforms while still having regionally instanced zones and PvP.

I doubt it would ever happen tho as the design decisions they have made regarding platform and region splits is one that would be very hard and costly to undo.

Draxys

Other

IMO it’s their management of it and resources dedicated to it. It worked fine at launch. Pvp doesn’t lag nearly as badly during a more highly populated event. As with most things in a company, it comes down to good or bad leadership and management.

Apox

Yes, replace the two megaservers per platform with more distributed servers

Yes, the issue isnt server capacity, it's location and ping to/from the server. People far away from the server simply cant compete on the level of optimization as those who live in the same area. when it comes to combat intricacies, the difference between 20 and 120 ping is absolutely massive.

If you said "120 ping shouldnt matter that much" in a game like wow or ffxiv, id be inclined to agree, but in eso with action combat and animation canceling, playing at 100+ ping feels pretty poor.

zyk

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

The Megaserver concept is a zillion times better than what we used to have with MMOs with servers opening, closing and merging constantly according to population fluctuations.

I think that if ESO was more popular, it would surely have more regional servers, but if anything I think some platform mergers are more likely to happen.

rabidmyers

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

no

russelmmendoza

Other

North and south server, lol.

eso_lags

Other

Billdor wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Outdated game networking. Most new MMO games are all building around AWS. ZOS is making money, so why aren't they reinvesting it into their server infrastructure? Answer: GREED!

As someone who works in IT, I'd like to see you come up with:


A) A source of their server infrastructure.
B. A business case for cloud bursting.
C) Your qualifcation in Cloud Computer (AWS, Azure, etc) to show you aren't chatting ***.

Thanks.

A) The source is the broom closet in the bathroom at zenimax HQ.
B....... My buisiness case for cloud bursting is that if its better for the customers then whatever the hell theyre doing now, which isnt working at all, then DO IT.
C) My qualification is that I am an avid roleplayer in the elder scrolls online who cant fulfill my roleplay dreams because the server is ***. Thats all the qualification I need.

Elsonso

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

.

eso_lags wrote: »

Billdor wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Outdated game networking. Most new MMO games are all building around AWS. ZOS is making money, so why aren't they reinvesting it into their server infrastructure? Answer: GREED!

As someone who works in IT, I'd like to see you come up with:


A) A source of their server infrastructure.
B. A business case for cloud bursting.
C) Your qualifcation in Cloud Computer (AWS, Azure, etc) to show you aren't chatting ***.

Thanks.

A) The source is the broom closet in the bathroom at zenimax HQ.
B....... My buisiness case for cloud bursting is that if its better for the customers then whatever the hell theyre doing now, which isnt working at all, then DO IT.
C) My qualification is that I am an avid roleplayer in the elder scrolls online who cant fulfill my roleplay dreams because the server is ***. Thats all the qualification I need.

I heard from the second assistant to the weekend janitor that... oh, I wasn't supposed to talk about that.

Like many computing technologies, cloud makes sense for some things, including some games, but not other things. There is a point where things can scale in a manner that cloud gets more complicated than on-prem. On-prem is not "outdated" when it is the best answer.

We have all had the opportunity to see pictures of the EU megaserver. Yes, the pictures are a couple years old, but they clearly show a very complex modern network of computers running this show. I assume they have been managing upgrades to the hardware in the time since those pictures were taken. This is not some Windows 95 potato sitting under Rich's desk at the office.

In my mind, a move to the cloud would be gaining significant lowering of internet latency for some people while adding to the potential for performance loss and disruption for everyone due to additional complexity.

(Edit: and this is one reason why I would like to see the NA and EU servers merged at a single location)

Suddwrath

Yes, replace the two megaservers per platform with more distributed servers

lordrichter wrote: »

This is not some Windows 95 potato sitting under Rich's desk at the office.

Technically true. They are currently in the process of upgrading the operating systems, so now it is Windows XP

danno8

Seraphayel wrote: »

I'd really like to know what's "mega" about the servers.

Guild Wars 2 has applied a very similar system and their servers seem to be a million times better than ESO's.

GW2 has separate servers. Jade Quarry, Black gate etc... And if you get a three way 60*60*60 fight going anywhere in PvP you will get the exact same crippling lag as every other game on the market.

GW2 absolutely shines in how it rolls out updates and patches though. Zero server downtime, just have to restart your client within the next couple hours at your leisure.

Edit: Also to note, ESO has the unfortunate problem that skills in this game have no cool downs. That means spamming calculation intensive AoE damage, healing and utility skills happen at a much higher rate than other games on the market that do have cool downs.

People look back at beta and are at awe at how well the game runs. Well in large part that is because people didn't have the widespread knowledge that bunching together and spam casting AoEs is by far the most efficient use of resources. As soon as Impulse+Healing Spring spam became widespread we started to see some pretty serious lag.

.

Billdor

No, keep the two megaservers per platform

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Billdor wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Outdated game networking. Most new MMO games are all building around AWS. ZOS is making money, so why aren't they reinvesting it into their server infrastructure? Answer: GREED!

As someone who works in IT, I'd like to see you come up with:


A) A source of their server infrastructure.
B. A business case for cloud bursting.
C) Your qualifcation in Cloud Computer (AWS, Azure, etc) to show you aren't chatting ***.

Thanks.

This is an open forum. I don't have to present my credentials to you or any other casual person wanting to discuss this game's infrastructure. If you are going to counter my argument you better come at me with a better attempt, other than character assassination.

UPDATE:

Now that I thought this over, I thought I'd better explain why the megaserver holds this game back in the frame of an article I read years ago about a guy who decided that mining bitcoin on his own hardware was a waste of time, money and resources, and when he gained access to AWS in it's early stages he could dynamically spin up 100s of servers, to handle all the processing virtually, and didn't spend a dime by exploiting free tier services. If ZOS cannot see the financial and long-term benefits of escaping early 2000 tech infrastructure, then the game deserves to be held back.

My thoughts exactly, you know nothing.

Good Day.