How about maces for tanks?

Tasear

What if maces gave double enchant bonsus? Would this help tanks?

Silver_Strider

They'd have to make a passive that adjusted 1h weapon in the 1h+S line first in order for the type of weapon to matter. Currently, there isn't one and Tanks can use whatever they want, which is why my Alkosh 1h is a dagger.

Tasear

Silver_Strider wrote: »

They'd have to make a passive that adjusted 1h weapon in the 1h+S line first in order for the type of weapon to matter. Currently, there isn't one and Tanks can use whatever they want, which is why my Alkosh 1h is a dagger.

That's the idea

VaranisArano

That would not only require ZOS to add a passive to One Hand And Shield differentiating the weapon types (forcing tanks to refarm or recraft their weapons depending on which one is the desired trait)...

But it would also require ZOS to revert, conditionally, the nerf they are handing to One Hand and Shield in the full knowledge of what that's going to the do to the Crusher enchant meta.

So its unlikely to happen AND it would mean more work for most tanks to readjust to the new desired trait, even if the end results might improve the tank's ability to provide support via enchantments.

Tasear

VaranisArano wrote: »

That would not only require ZOS to add a passive to One Hand And Shield differentiating the weapon types (forcing tanks to refarm or recraft their weapons depending on which one is the desired trait)...

But it would also require ZOS to revert, conditionally, the nerf they are handing to One Hand and Shield in the full knowledge of what that's going to the do to the Crusher enchant meta.

So its unlikely to happen AND it would mean more work for most tanks to readjust to the new desired trait, even if the end results might improve the tank's ability to provide support via enchantments.

I don't think one handed shield Nerf was intentional though, but I see your point on other things.

VaranisArano

Tasear wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That would not only require ZOS to add a passive to One Hand And Shield differentiating the weapon types (forcing tanks to refarm or recraft their weapons depending on which one is the desired trait)...

But it would also require ZOS to revert, conditionally, the nerf they are handing to One Hand and Shield in the full knowledge of what that's going to the do to the Crusher enchant meta.

So its unlikely to happen AND it would mean more work for most tanks to readjust to the new desired trait, even if the end results might improve the tank's ability to provide support via enchantments.

I don't think one handed shield Nerf was intentional though, but I see your point on other things.

Given that the Dev's comment on the PTS Patch Notes is as follows:

Enchants on one handed weapons will now be half the potency of those placed on two handed weapons. This will apply to the damage and effectiveness of enchants, but will not affect the cooldown.
This means an enchant that would normally have a 4 second cooldown and deal 4000 damage on a two handed weapon will deal 2000 Damage, but still have a 4 second cooldown.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to better align with the current functionality of differences in one handed and two handed weapons. Traits and item set slot progression are worth twice as much on two handed weapons than they are on one handed weapons, and the previous interaction broke that paradigm in the case of enchantment performance.


Moreover, this was stated on the January Class Rep thread: "One-Hand enchants: We did not spend as much time on this as we’d have liked too (we were running short on time). It’s a big impact on tanking and duel wield DPS. That being said, we’ve had long discussions about this in our Discord and it’s safe to say the implications of these changes have been communicated to ZOS."


So I'd guess that the One Hand and Shield nerf was entirely intentional. ZOS certainly hasn't reverted it despite plenty of threads complaining about it. Not to mention its not the first time ZOS has taken a swipe at the PVE tank meta to make players change - Tava's Blessing used to be a thing and now it isn't.

If it goes Live as it is, it won't be by accident.

Tasear

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That would not only require ZOS to add a passive to One Hand And Shield differentiating the weapon types (forcing tanks to refarm or recraft their weapons depending on which one is the desired trait)...

But it would also require ZOS to revert, conditionally, the nerf they are handing to One Hand and Shield in the full knowledge of what that's going to the do to the Crusher enchant meta.

So its unlikely to happen AND it would mean more work for most tanks to readjust to the new desired trait, even if the end results might improve the tank's ability to provide support via enchantments.

I don't think one handed shield Nerf was intentional though, but I see your point on other things.

Given that the Dev's comment on the PTS Patch Notes is as follows:

Enchants on one handed weapons will now be half the potency of those placed on two handed weapons. This will apply to the damage and effectiveness of enchants, but will not affect the cooldown.
This means an enchant that would normally have a 4 second cooldown and deal 4000 damage on a two handed weapon will deal 2000 Damage, but still have a 4 second cooldown.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to better align with the current functionality of differences in one handed and two handed weapons. Traits and item set slot progression are worth twice as much on two handed weapons than they are on one handed weapons, and the previous interaction broke that paradigm in the case of enchantment performance.


Moreover, this was stated on the January Class Rep thread: "One-Hand enchants: We did not spend as much time on this as we’d have liked too (we were running short on time). It’s a big impact on tanking and duel wield DPS. That being said, we’ve had long discussions about this in our Discord and it’s safe to say the implications of these changes have been communicated to ZOS."


So I'd guess that the One Hand and Shield nerf was entirely intentional. ZOS certainly hasn't reverted it despite plenty of threads complaining about it. Not to mention its not the first time ZOS has taken a swipe at the PVE tank meta to make players change - Tava's Blessing used to be a thing and now it isn't.

If it goes Live as it is, it won't be by accident.

I was actually part of that meeting. I honestly think it was just overlooked.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That would not only require ZOS to add a passive to One Hand And Shield differentiating the weapon types (forcing tanks to refarm or recraft their weapons depending on which one is the desired trait)...

But it would also require ZOS to revert, conditionally, the nerf they are handing to One Hand and Shield in the full knowledge of what that's going to the do to the Crusher enchant meta.

So its unlikely to happen AND it would mean more work for most tanks to readjust to the new desired trait, even if the end results might improve the tank's ability to provide support via enchantments.

I don't think one handed shield Nerf was intentional though, but I see your point on other things.

Given that the Dev's comment on the PTS Patch Notes is as follows:

Enchants on one handed weapons will now be half the potency of those placed on two handed weapons. This will apply to the damage and effectiveness of enchants, but will not affect the cooldown.
This means an enchant that would normally have a 4 second cooldown and deal 4000 damage on a two handed weapon will deal 2000 Damage, but still have a 4 second cooldown.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to better align with the current functionality of differences in one handed and two handed weapons. Traits and item set slot progression are worth twice as much on two handed weapons than they are on one handed weapons, and the previous interaction broke that paradigm in the case of enchantment performance.


Moreover, this was stated on the January Class Rep thread: "One-Hand enchants: We did not spend as much time on this as we’d have liked too (we were running short on time). It’s a big impact on tanking and duel wield DPS. That being said, we’ve had long discussions about this in our Discord and it’s safe to say the implications of these changes have been communicated to ZOS."


So I'd guess that the One Hand and Shield nerf was entirely intentional. ZOS certainly hasn't reverted it despite plenty of threads complaining about it. Not to mention its not the first time ZOS has taken a swipe at the PVE tank meta to make players change - Tava's Blessing used to be a thing and now it isn't.

If it goes Live as it is, it won't be by accident.

I was actually part of that meeting. I honestly think it was just overlooked.

@liofa has said he brought it up.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5752405/#Comment_5752405

This is one of the changes I tried to prevent due to how big of a nerf it is to tanks

LiquidPony

Rather than tooling around with enchants, could just have the Twin Blade & Blunt passive for maces reduce the target's armor by 500 or something (double that for 2H Mauls). No idea what the correct number would be. It would have to be non-stackable.

VaranisArano

Tasear wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That would not only require ZOS to add a passive to One Hand And Shield differentiating the weapon types (forcing tanks to refarm or recraft their weapons depending on which one is the desired trait)...

But it would also require ZOS to revert, conditionally, the nerf they are handing to One Hand and Shield in the full knowledge of what that's going to the do to the Crusher enchant meta.

So its unlikely to happen AND it would mean more work for most tanks to readjust to the new desired trait, even if the end results might improve the tank's ability to provide support via enchantments.

I don't think one handed shield Nerf was intentional though, but I see your point on other things.

Given that the Dev's comment on the PTS Patch Notes is as follows:

Enchants on one handed weapons will now be half the potency of those placed on two handed weapons. This will apply to the damage and effectiveness of enchants, but will not affect the cooldown.
This means an enchant that would normally have a 4 second cooldown and deal 4000 damage on a two handed weapon will deal 2000 Damage, but still have a 4 second cooldown.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to better align with the current functionality of differences in one handed and two handed weapons. Traits and item set slot progression are worth twice as much on two handed weapons than they are on one handed weapons, and the previous interaction broke that paradigm in the case of enchantment performance.


Moreover, this was stated on the January Class Rep thread: "One-Hand enchants: We did not spend as much time on this as we’d have liked too (we were running short on time). It’s a big impact on tanking and duel wield DPS. That being said, we’ve had long discussions about this in our Discord and it’s safe to say the implications of these changes have been communicated to ZOS."


So I'd guess that the One Hand and Shield nerf was entirely intentional. ZOS certainly hasn't reverted it despite plenty of threads complaining about it. Not to mention its not the first time ZOS has taken a swipe at the PVE tank meta to make players change - Tava's Blessing used to be a thing and now it isn't.

If it goes Live as it is, it won't be by accident.

I was actually part of that meeting. I honestly think it was just overlooked.

Fair enough. I tend to assume that the Devs know what they're doing when they nerf the meta to shake things up, and tanks using the Crusher enchant has definitely been the meta. If that's a faulty assumption in this case, I suppose I'm glad to hear it.

Tasear

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That would not only require ZOS to add a passive to One Hand And Shield differentiating the weapon types (forcing tanks to refarm or recraft their weapons depending on which one is the desired trait)...

But it would also require ZOS to revert, conditionally, the nerf they are handing to One Hand and Shield in the full knowledge of what that's going to the do to the Crusher enchant meta.

So its unlikely to happen AND it would mean more work for most tanks to readjust to the new desired trait, even if the end results might improve the tank's ability to provide support via enchantments.

I don't think one handed shield Nerf was intentional though, but I see your point on other things.

Given that the Dev's comment on the PTS Patch Notes is as follows:

Enchants on one handed weapons will now be half the potency of those placed on two handed weapons. This will apply to the damage and effectiveness of enchants, but will not affect the cooldown.
This means an enchant that would normally have a 4 second cooldown and deal 4000 damage on a two handed weapon will deal 2000 Damage, but still have a 4 second cooldown.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to better align with the current functionality of differences in one handed and two handed weapons. Traits and item set slot progression are worth twice as much on two handed weapons than they are on one handed weapons, and the previous interaction broke that paradigm in the case of enchantment performance.


Moreover, this was stated on the January Class Rep thread: "One-Hand enchants: We did not spend as much time on this as we’d have liked too (we were running short on time). It’s a big impact on tanking and duel wield DPS. That being said, we’ve had long discussions about this in our Discord and it’s safe to say the implications of these changes have been communicated to ZOS."


So I'd guess that the One Hand and Shield nerf was entirely intentional. ZOS certainly hasn't reverted it despite plenty of threads complaining about it. Not to mention its not the first time ZOS has taken a swipe at the PVE tank meta to make players change - Tava's Blessing used to be a thing and now it isn't.

If it goes Live as it is, it won't be by accident.

I was actually part of that meeting. I honestly think it was just overlooked.

Fair enough. I tend to assume that the Devs know what they're doing when they nerf the meta to shake things up, and tanks using the Crusher enchant has definitely been the meta. If that's a faulty assumption in this case, I suppose I'm glad to hear it.

Some changes just have an after effect on other things in game.

BlueRaven

I dunno I don't like tanks being limited to one type of 1h weapon. Maybe allow weapon enchants on shields, or something like that?

ankeor

BlueRaven wrote: »

I dunno I don't like tanks being limited to one type of 1h weapon. Maybe allow weapon enchants on shields, or something like that?

Well stam dds are forced to one type of weapon as well. But yes being limited to one thing is not good. OP's suggestion is not a solution, it is a band-aid.

MartiniDaniels

Don't wanna be dramatic, but I think for ZOS tanks are 3rd class passengers. Those changes to nord and enchantments, lack of alternatives to alkosh for years... tank just should be there, DK, nord, ebon, alkosh, crusher, horn, everything else doesn't matter.