Compiled Patches (4.3.0 to 4.3.4)

Kulvar

Altmer (High Elf)

• +15% Destruction Staff Skill Line Experience gain
• +1% Generic Experience gain
• +2000 Max Magicka
• +258 Spell Damage
• Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
• Restore 645 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is your lowest maximum resource, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

Argonian

• +15% Restoration Staff Skill Line Experience gain
• +50% Swimming Speed
• +1000 Max Health
• +1000 Max Magicka
• +6% Healing Done
• +2310 Disease Resistance
• Immunity to the Diseased status effect
• Restore 4000 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.

Bosmer (Wood Elf)

• +15% Bow Skill Line Experience gain
• -10% Fall Damage taken
• +3m Stealth detection radius
• +2000 Max Stamina
• +258 Stamina Recovery
• +2310 Poison Resistance
• Immunity to the Poisoned status effect
• After you use Roll Dodge you gain 10% Movement Speed and 1500 Physical and Spell Penetration for 6 seconds.

Breton

• +15% Light Armor Skill Line Experience gain
• +1% Alliance Point gain
• +2000 Max Magicka
• +100 Magicka Recovery
• -7% Magicka cost reduction for abilities
• +2310 Magical Resistance
• +2310 Magical Resistance while afflicted by Burning, Concussed, or Chilled

Dunmer (Dark Elf)

• +15% Dual Wield Skill Line Experience gain
• -50% Lava Damage taken
• +1875 Max Magicka
• +1875 Max Stamina
• +258 Spell Damage
• +258 Weapon Damage
• +2310 Flame Resistance
• Immunity to the Burning status effect

Imperial

• +15% One Hand and Shield Skill Line Experience gain
• +1% Gold gain
• +2000 Max Health
• +2000 Max Stamina
• Restore 333 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you deal Direct Damage. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.
• -3% every resource cost

Khajiit

• +15% Medium Armor Skill Line Experience gain
• +5% Pickpocket chance
• -3m Stealth detected radius
• +825 Max Health
• +825 Max Magicka
• +825 Max Stamina
• +100 Health Recovery
• +85 Magicka Recovery
• +85 Stamina Recovery
• +10% Critical Damage
• +10% Critical Healing

Nord

• +15% Two Handed Skill Line Experience gain
• +15 minutes on drink buffs duration
• +1000 Max Health
• +1500 Max Stamina
• +3960 Physical Resistance
• +3960 Magical Resistance
• +2310 Cold Resistance
• Immunity to the Chilled status effect
• Restore 5 Ultimate when you take damage. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.

Orc

• +15% Heavy Armor Skill Line Experience gain
• +10% Inspiration gain
• +1000 Max Health
• +2000 Max Stamina
• +258 Weapon Damage
• +10% Sprint Speed
• -12% Sprint cost
• Restore 600 Health when you deal damage with a weapon. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

Redguard

• +15% One Hand and Shield Skill Line Experience gain
• +15 minutes on food buffs duration
• +2000 Max Stamina
• -8% cost on weapon abilities
• -15% Snare effectiveness
• When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

codestripper

Pretty sure @Seraphayel already has a thread on this.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458909/summary-u21-wrathstone-racial-changes-always-up-to-date-4-3-3#latest

soynegroyque

This one looks better though.

Seraphayel

soynegroyque wrote: »

This one looks better though.

This is true indeed, it's better formatted. I just copy pasted ZOS patch notes, this is a better overall overview.

Minno

Seraphayel wrote: »

soynegroyque wrote: »

This one looks better though.

This is true indeed, it's better formatted. I just copy pasted ZOS patch notes, this is a better overall overview.

agreed. Also, look at all those bonuses! Kitty is STACKED lol.

Roboplus

Looking at everything together like this it's abundantly clear that the +Healing Done is what's holding Argonians back. Even compared to Altmers, which a lot of people have been complaining about. It has a double Spell Damage bonus where Argonians have 6% Healing. And 6% Healing Done is, compared to existing armor sets, 3 set bonuses.

PvE healers don't need +Healing Done, and in PvP 6% is inconsequential.

It's malignant.

Tevalaur

And if you want to see exactly what's changed from live (new in italics, old struck-out), then there's this.

irswat

guess Im rerolling all my mag dps from altmer to breton.

hakan

Roboplus wrote: »

Looking at everything together like this it's abundantly clear that the +Healing Done is what's holding Argonians back. Even compared to Altmers, which a lot of people have been complaining about. It has a double Spell Damage bonus where Argonians have 6% Healing. And 6% Healing Done is, compared to existing armor sets, 3 set bonuses.

PvE healers don't need +Healing Done, and in PvP 6% is inconsequential.

It's malignant.

Does that passive works for vigor? Like i use vigor on myself and get a six percent bonus?

Seraphayel

hakan wrote: »

Roboplus wrote: »

Looking at everything together like this it's abundantly clear that the +Healing Done is what's holding Argonians back. Even compared to Altmers, which a lot of people have been complaining about. It has a double Spell Damage bonus where Argonians have 6% Healing. And 6% Healing Done is, compared to existing armor sets, 3 set bonuses.

PvE healers don't need +Healing Done, and in PvP 6% is inconsequential.

It's malignant.

Does that passive works for vigor? Like i use vigor on myself and get a six percent bonus?

It better does because +6% more healing done is 6% more healing done on every skill that heals you or others.

SpiderCultist

orcs are over the top

phantasmalD

Roboplus wrote: »

Looking at everything together like this it's abundantly clear that the +Healing Done is what's holding Argonians back. Even compared to Altmers, which a lot of people have been complaining about. It has a double Spell Damage bonus where Argonians have 6% Healing. And 6% Healing Done is, compared to existing armor sets, 3 set bonuses.

PvE healers don't need +Healing Done, and in PvP 6% is inconsequential.

It's malignant.

Yeah, this. The healing done% kinda made sense in the past but now it's just a remnant of the past that ZoS didn't bother to rethink. Previously Altmer had elemental damage bonus making them the 'elemental mage', so it was perfectly fine to have a 'restoration mage' (even if it wasn't particularly lore friendly).

But now Altmer are just the 'mage' and the spell damage they gained is significantly boosting their healing numbers as well, so imo it's not fine to leave argonians with the same passive.

Let me illustrate through the example of Healing Springs:

(Skill coefficent copied from here: https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php)

Summon restoring spirits with your staff, healing you and your allies in the target area for $1 Health and an additional $2 Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. You restore 273 Magicka for each friendly target hit by the initial heal, up to a maximum of 3 targets.

$1/$2 = 0.0309941 Magicka + 0.324186 SD + 1.54021 (Magicka, R2 = 0.999997, ratio = 10.46) [*multipliers]
This is how the amount of healing is calculated, afaik. As far as multipliers go we can ignore all but one as they would impact argo and altmer numbers equally.

The one we can't ignore is healing done for two reason:
1. This is the bonus argos are getting
2. The Apprentice CP tree's Blessed stars also boosts this. Generally people put 75 or 100 points in this star, let's say we put 75 in it, giving us 14% healing done bonus.

So let's assume our fictitious build gives us 40k magicka and 1.8k spell damage:

(0,0309941x40000)+(0,324186x1800)+1,54021 =
1240+583,5+1,54021 = 1825
1825x(1+0,14+0,06) = 2190

So our argonian would heal for 2190hp. Let's see the same build with an altmer.

+258SD and +1000M ==
1270,7+667+1,54021= 1939
1939x1,14 = 2210

So Altmer using the same build outheal argonians. Not by much, I admit, it's only a 4x30= 120hp healed difference, but this isn't the only effect the higher SD and M has:
- higher damage -> higher group damage -> shorter fights
- higher magicka pool -> can cast more spells -> lessens the need for regen ( the only slight advantage argos have)

And for the record: 1939x1,13 = 2191 (64 points into Blessed). So Altmer can get away with allocating less points into Blessed while still getting the same numbers as argonians, allowing to use those points to further enhance their damage output.

Calculation with different base stats:

40k M + 3k SD

1240 + 972,6 + 1,54021 = 2214
1270,7 + 1056,2 + 1,54021 = 2328

2214x1,14 = 2524
2214x1,20 = 2657
2328x1,14 = 2654

Conclusion: it takes a (relatively) absurdly high base damage for the healing done% to overtake the spell damage boost.

30k M + 1,6 SD

930 + 519 + 1 = 1450
961 + 603 + 1 = 1564

1450x1,20 = 1740
1564x1,14 = 1783

Conclusion: the less base stats you have the more impactful the difference between the two race.

One thing I didn't take into account: due to CP and other multipliers the difference between the two race is bigger than 258SD +1000M; just CP alone makes that 1200M difference.

And then there's the elephant in the room: as you said, PvE healers don't really care about slightly stronger heals, everyone is either overhealed constantly already or has died to a OHKO.

So in the end all argos have is okayish sustain. But in that regard they are massively losing to Bretons and about on par with Khajiit and Imperials. Two of which also trump argonians in damage department (as damage parses clearly show) while the third one potentially trumps them in support capabilities due to cheaper Warhorn.

And then haven't even mentioned Nords and that Ultimate generation passive that might potentially make them a contender for healer role?! 4 Nord support meta?

Tl;dr: whining about how argonians are getting shoehorned into healer-only role while not being the undisputed best healers. (Not that I want them to stay healers-only. I'd love to see the healing done replaced by something more versatile)