Permafrost Snare Only, Time Stop Stun Only

Solariken

Vapirko wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I think these both would be ok of roots and snares were not so powerful.

Roots you can at least dodge roll and get 2 second immunity but purging them should do the same since purging total dark/unstable core gives you CC immunity (or at least has at one point in the game)

Snares I would rather not have drop people much below normal running speed and be limited somewhat that way but rather be a counter to minor expedition, major expedition, and other speed boosts. Maybe they would just flat out be "reduces your opponent to 10% below normal running speed" as a max and a hard set movement speed value and then the counter to the counter could be sprinting. If they did that, both these abilities would not be so bad.

Right, if mobilty was still a thing these wouldn’t be so bad. But something has to give. We all know it. It’s amazing how we went from snares barely being an issue to them being the most prevalent issue. I guess I should be patient, I do have a feeling we will be seeing some changes.

Yep I'm sure eventual changes but not until the eleventh hour when Necromancer is going to drop. Funny how that works...

Defilted

Vapirko wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

As far as permafrost it didn’t become an issue until the speed nerf. It suddenly became “op” after the speed nerf. You can’t kill anyone with it by yourself if they have basic pvp common sense. What’s going to happen is zos is going to hit the ult without fixing the actual issue like usual. Then players will spend the next 6 months complaining about that change. Cycle never ends. And it’s the reason why balance is subpar. Devs don’t play the game enough to understand the issues and players don’t offer actual solutions and end up just as responsible for the terrible metas.

You can kill people with it by yourself. Its still fairly effective 1v1 because snares are so strong. Also the speed nerf and mobilty nerf to the extent that it was implemented was entirely ZOS fault. The duration of speed pots was out of control, I think everyone agreed on that. But all the hits to expedition skills, the huge nerf of FM, no one was asking for those. A lot of those changes were out of left field and I think we will see less of those types of alterations now that the dev team has been rearranged and is under new leadership.

Speed pots were not the issue. Swift was the issue. No one had issues with speed pots until the introduction of swift.

technohic

Defilted wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

As far as permafrost it didn’t become an issue until the speed nerf. It suddenly became “op” after the speed nerf. You can’t kill anyone with it by yourself if they have basic pvp common sense. What’s going to happen is zos is going to hit the ult without fixing the actual issue like usual. Then players will spend the next 6 months complaining about that change. Cycle never ends. And it’s the reason why balance is subpar. Devs don’t play the game enough to understand the issues and players don’t offer actual solutions and end up just as responsible for the terrible metas.

You can kill people with it by yourself. Its still fairly effective 1v1 because snares are so strong. Also the speed nerf and mobilty nerf to the extent that it was implemented was entirely ZOS fault. The duration of speed pots was out of control, I think everyone agreed on that. But all the hits to expedition skills, the huge nerf of FM, no one was asking for those. A lot of those changes were out of left field and I think we will see less of those types of alterations now that the dev team has been rearranged and is under new leadership.

Speed pots were not the issue. Swift was the issue. No one had issues with speed pots until the introduction of swift.

Its not even swift. Swift could have been nice for slower classes and speed could have been capped lower to keep the already faster classes from going to ludicrous speed. Amazingly; they will start with Bosmer and keep adding other sources of speed to where we are right back where we were there but more limited to troll builds.

Solariken

I actually appreciate the speed adjustments we got. Speed pots absolutely were overperforming and so was Swift. Forward Momentum needed a nerf but it was a bit over-nerfed.

The things they should not have changed were active skills like Boundless Storm, Hasty Retreat, et al - that was a huge mistake.

Vapirko

Solariken wrote: »

I actually appreciate the speed adjustments we got. Speed pots absolutely were overperforming and so was Swift. Forward Momentum needed a nerf but it was a bit over-nerfed.

The things they should not have changed were active skills like Boundless Storm, Hasty Retreat, et al - that was a huge mistake.

The whole bring all skills in line bit was such a mistake. All skills are not created equal and should not be treated as such. Making spin to win undodgeable is the best example of this.

Vapirko

Defilted wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

As far as permafrost it didn’t become an issue until the speed nerf. It suddenly became “op” after the speed nerf. You can’t kill anyone with it by yourself if they have basic pvp common sense. What’s going to happen is zos is going to hit the ult without fixing the actual issue like usual. Then players will spend the next 6 months complaining about that change. Cycle never ends. And it’s the reason why balance is subpar. Devs don’t play the game enough to understand the issues and players don’t offer actual solutions and end up just as responsible for the terrible metas.

You can kill people with it by yourself. Its still fairly effective 1v1 because snares are so strong. Also the speed nerf and mobilty nerf to the extent that it was implemented was entirely ZOS fault. The duration of speed pots was out of control, I think everyone agreed on that. But all the hits to expedition skills, the huge nerf of FM, no one was asking for those. A lot of those changes were out of left field and I think we will see less of those types of alterations now that the dev team has been rearranged and is under new leadership.

Speed pots were not the issue. Swift was the issue. No one had issues with speed pots until the introduction of swift.

The duration of speed pots was a little much.

CatchMeTrolling

Vapirko wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

As far as permafrost it didn’t become an issue until the speed nerf. It suddenly became “op” after the speed nerf. You can’t kill anyone with it by yourself if they have basic pvp common sense. What’s going to happen is zos is going to hit the ult without fixing the actual issue like usual. Then players will spend the next 6 months complaining about that change. Cycle never ends. And it’s the reason why balance is subpar. Devs don’t play the game enough to understand the issues and players don’t offer actual solutions and end up just as responsible for the terrible metas.

You can kill people with it by yourself. Its still fairly effective 1v1 because snares are so strong. Also the speed nerf and mobilty nerf to the extent that it was implemented was entirely ZOS fault. The duration of speed pots was out of control, I think everyone agreed on that. But all the hits to expedition skills, the huge nerf of FM, no one was asking for those. A lot of those changes were out of left field and I think we will see less of those types of alterations now that the dev team has been rearranged and is under new leadership.

Speed pots were not the issue. Swift was the issue. No one had issues with speed pots until the introduction of swift.

The duration of speed pots was a little much.

There was a trade off to using speed pots, no one even cared about speed pots until the speed meta.

TheBonesXXX

AoEs that follow players should be dodgeable and should be effective in crushing clumps. Prox Det treatment.

Ground/stationary AoEs should not be dodgeable should have full damage to effect until players move out of the ability.

Sieges should just decimate players, get out of the bloody way if you don't want to die.

Coldfire should get rid of the ground indicator.

But first and foremost, server performance needs to be drastically improved.

Spin-to-Win needs to turn into a cleave execute, not a full 360, it's dumb.

Permafrost just needs to be made into three consecutive hits with the changes above.

If players are using the same skills, then they need looked at in comparison with other ultis.

Nothing should hit harder than siege.

Killset

Vapirko wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

As far as permafrost it didn’t become an issue until the speed nerf. It suddenly became “op” after the speed nerf. You can’t kill anyone with it by yourself if they have basic pvp common sense. What’s going to happen is zos is going to hit the ult without fixing the actual issue like usual. Then players will spend the next 6 months complaining about that change. Cycle never ends. And it’s the reason why balance is subpar. Devs don’t play the game enough to understand the issues and players don’t offer actual solutions and end up just as responsible for the terrible metas.

You can kill people with it by yourself. Its still fairly effective 1v1 because snares are so strong. Also the speed nerf and mobilty nerf to the extent that it was implemented was entirely ZOS fault. The duration of speed pots was out of control, I think everyone agreed on that. But all the hits to expedition skills, the huge nerf of FM, no one was asking for those. A lot of those changes were out of left field and I think we will see less of those types of alterations now that the dev team has been rearranged and is under new leadership.

No one ever said speed pots were out of control prior to the swift patch. It’s very similar to the gap closer phenomenon. No one said a word about them until ZOS announced they were nerfing them. Then all of a sudden everyone who didn’t depend on one realized they were a game breaking mechanic and applauded ZOS for their insight.

Raammzzaa

The OP is right, and I would also like to cry for nerfs to Time Stop on the forum. Thank you. 🙏

ChunkyCat

Vapirko wrote: »

I think these would be fair changes. The whole snared until your stunned thing is a bit much. You spend so much stamina getting out of these skills, and don’t pretend like permafrost can’t be up almost constantly if you have just two wardens in your group. Or that people don’t spam time stop.

Permafrost benefits most from the snare. As is it’s a very strong ult that’s kind of brainless providing so many effects at once. Shock reach does plenty of damage and CCs very well if you want to get both effects. Raise the ceiling a bit on this one.

For Time Stop the real issue is that you can still be frozen even if you exit the bubble because it appears the actual AOE extends to the limit even if the expanding bubble has not reached it’s not full size or something, or maybe it’s just bad bugged, not sure. I say keep this skill at its current cost, but remove the snare and make it a stun after the timer expires and keep its other effects. This would still make it an effective area denial tool just with a bit more thought put into this use. Groups can throw down caltrops along with time stop for a similar effect. Since the cost could be kept down in this case, I think this would also make PvErs happy who use this skill.

MalagenR

Vapirko wrote: »

I think these would be fair changes. The whole snared until your stunned thing is a bit much. You spend so much stamina getting out of these skills, and don’t pretend like permafrost can’t be up almost constantly if you have just two wardens in your group. Or that people don’t spam time stop.

Permafrost benefits most from the snare. As is it’s a very strong ult that’s kind of brainless providing so many effects at once. Shock reach does plenty of damage and CCs very well if you want to get both effects. Raise the ceiling a bit on this one.

For Time Stop the real issue is that you can still be frozen even if you exit the bubble because it appears the actual AOE extends to the limit even if the expanding bubble has not reached it’s not full size or something, or maybe it’s just bad bugged, not sure. I say keep this skill at its current cost, but remove the snare and make it a stun after the timer expires and keep its other effects. This would still make it an effective area denial tool just with a bit more thought put into this use. Groups can throw down caltrops along with time stop for a similar effect. Since the cost could be kept down in this case, I think this would also make PvErs happy who use this skill.

Best suggestion I've seen now that everyone has moved past blaming Wall of Elements.

alexj4596b14_ESO

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Once Necromancer is released I fully expect Warden to get nerfted hard, lol. jk, but really..

I think these changes would be good. Perhaps remove the major protection from Northern Storm and make that the morph for Permafrost.

Uhh no remove the stunn before that.

alexj4596b14_ESO

Shards recasting perma stun is annoying AF even as Warden player. But we have No execute personally this works as one if you time your beatles correctly. However I wouldn't mind if they reduced the the stun in PvP to 1 second. With a 1 second immunity. This would be descent counter play.

As far as the ult goes. I think it would be better if they change the animation to something more visible.