How about a trading market?

ZaroktheImmortal

I think some use guilds for trading stuff and unless I'm mistaken there isn't yet a trading system outside of there except posting in the zone chat but I remember in Star Wars the Old Republic they had a full trading system where you could put items for sale that other players could see I believe it was faction locked in that one though (Empire/Republic) but it worked pretty well from what I remember and with ESO and one tamriel wouldn't need such restrictions I'd think. So do you think it'd be a good idea to have one here?

VaranisArano

If you join a trading guild, you can list items in their guild trader.

Everyone can buy from guild traders.

If you want to sell otherwise, you'll need to use zone chat.

Auction House requests are a dead horse here on the forums. Nor is there any indication that the Devs want to switch to one.

jainiadral

Yes

It may be an old, rehashed topic. But the topic has legs because an auction house is sorely needed.

So have a yes and an agree. The exclusionary clique system we have going now stinks.

Sylvermynx

Yes

It's the only thing I find wrong with the game. So here's another yes, and an agree. I really dislike the guild trader exclusivity, so I don't use them very much at all - just for an occasional motif for a Master Writ.

NoTimeToWait

Other

Good thing, that we will never(at least not in the next 3 years) get any sort of auction house. Though, as we have BGs in addition to Cyrodiil, why not have some additional trading system, like local trade markets?

Danikat

Yes

I'd much prefer one global marketplace where everyone can buy and sell together rather than wasting my time jumping around guild traders hoping they have the thing I want and it's not horribly over priced. Tamriel Trade Center helps narrow down the options but it still wastes a huge amount of time compared to trading in other games.

But for whatever reason ZOS seems to have no interest in it and instead went for a very out-dated system most recent MMOs have abandoned, or never used to begin with.

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Not very helpful in this case. If you search for 'trading market' you get a mix of adverts for trading guilds and discussions about the market value of various items.

To find out that this topic has come up before you have to already know that the majority of people on this forum refer to a global marketplace as an 'auction house' (whether or not it would be possible to sell items by auction) because that's what it's called in World of Warcraft. But if you've never played WoW and haven't spent a lot of time on this forum I can't see how you could possibly know that.

Zathras

Yes

I'd love to see a global system.

Besides, there is already a workaround that many people use: TTC. They have an awesome database that lists where the item is, the guild trader, as well as the price and time it was listed. It's an off-site AH. So, judging by the thousands of people that use it, including the top trading guilds, it's pure hypocrisy to say an AH isn't needed or wanted.

Sylvermynx

Yes

TTC works okay as long as you can get to the best price and shortest listed time in a hurry. Since I just use it for motifs for Master Writs (as I'm good with buying the oddball ones or whatever), I haven't had too much trouble. Then again, I have just about every wayshrine unlocked on my main crafter - except the ones that are quest locked in Coldharbour and the ones in Cyrodiil.

Zordrage

Yes

Hell yes

NoTimeToWait

Other

Zathras wrote: »

I'd love to see a global system.

Besides, there is already a workaround that many people use: TTC. They have an awesome database that lists where the item is, the guild trader, as well as the price and time it was listed. It's an off-site AH. So, judging by the thousands of people that use it, including the top trading guilds, it's pure hypocrisy to say an AH isn't needed or wanted.

Well, for me TTC is the last tool I use when trading. Initially it was helpful. Today I use it like a couple times in a month. I know the market, which spots provide better prices with nice diversity of goods, which spots have bad diversity, but the best prices during events, which spots are good for buying materials and tempers, which spots are good to buy furnishings and which are good to buy pots and pot ingredients, which places are good to buy top gear and rare recipes. This is not the kind of information you would get with TTC, and not a thing that would exist with global AH.

I would say, that almost every city has its own trading specifics. Because the amount of revenue the guild gets, and what kind of spot trading guild can get on a constant basis heavily depends on what kind of people(mainly their in-game preferences but personal traits have some influence too) are in the guild and what they tend to sell. And it goes in other direction too, what sells better depends on the city. Some stuff sells better in Vivec, other things in Deshaan, yet another in Craglorn.

kargen27

No

It would wreck the economy. Common items would be priced at or below vendor prices. Rare items would be monopolized and increase dramatically in price. It happened in other MMO's (check complaints in their forums) and it would happen here.

Itzmichi

Other

I don't really care that much about the whole trading aspect. I'm not against integrating new system but I kinda have a metin 2 deja vu - just imaging bumping into merchant carts every 2 seconds till you pass the "market area"... 🤷🏼‍♂️

mxxo

No

There is a reason why the market is stable as it is.

Sibenice

Yes

kargen27 wrote: »

It would wreck the economy. Common items would be priced at or below vendor prices. Rare items would be monopolized and increase dramatically in price. It happened in other MMO's (check complaints in their forums) and it would happen here.

That doesn't mean the current option is better where the market is monopolized by the few who are able to get in the big guilds. This system is also incredibly new player unfriendly.

AlienatedGoat

No

I'd rather we use what we have and build onto the existing trader system to make it more robust.

Sanctum74

No

Guild traders, zones chat, how many options do you need?

dragonz868

Never been too a trader??

Syy101

No

Big trade guilds are not that hard to get in. Some ppl exaggerate them as if they are some market-controlling syndicate lol

Sylvermynx

Yes

Syy101 wrote: »

Big trade guilds are not that hard to get in. Some ppl exaggerate them as if they are some market-controlling syndicate lol

Um. In this game that's exactly how it works.

Syy101

No

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Syy101 wrote: »

Big trade guilds are not that hard to get in. Some ppl exaggerate them as if they are some market-controlling syndicate lol

Um. In this game that's exactly how it works.

Wow, never knew that cuz I can't even get a sale if I post 10% more price unless it is a very cheap item.

I am in one of the Mournhold trading guilds. The weekly fee is only 10k. How about join and try it yourself and see if you can control the market?

rabidmyers

Yes

hell yeah

Sylvermynx

Yes

Syy101 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Syy101 wrote: »

Big trade guilds are not that hard to get in. Some ppl exaggerate them as if they are some market-controlling syndicate lol

Um. In this game that's exactly how it works.

Wow, never knew that cuz I can't even get a sale if I post 10% more price unless it is a very cheap item.

I am in one of the Mournhold trading guilds. The weekly fee is only 10k. How about join and try it yourself and see if you can control the market?

Nope. Not interested. The trade guilds DO control the market because that's how the devs set it up. Not sure if they got benefits somehow, but I'm NOT going there. Y'all sit there on your over-inflated pricing, and I'll just keep thumbing my nose at you because, y'know, except for the odd motif, I don't need anything you're selling.

A global AH is a far more fair option. No, I don't expect any of you carrion birds to agree, and I don't care. I don't need gold. At all. And I'm not going to play your game. Of course - if they changed to a global AH, every one of you leeches would leave the game - so obviously that's not going to happen.

Sad.

kargen27

No

Sibenice wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

It would wreck the economy. Common items would be priced at or below vendor prices. Rare items would be monopolized and increase dramatically in price. It happened in other MMO's (check complaints in their forums) and it would happen here.

That doesn't mean the current option is better where the market is monopolized by the few who are able to get in the big guilds. This system is also incredibly new player unfriendly.

There are over 200 guild traders. You can't have a monopoly of two hundred. A guild can't even control the prices within their own guild if they want a full guild of good members. New players can easily find a social guild that consistently gets a trader. It won't be in a prime location but it will still get a good amount of traffic. Two of my guilds get an out of the way trader just about every week and usually what I post there sells in just a couple of days. Crafting mats sell really well. So plenty of opportunity for new players.

I also see plenty of guilds that specialize in trading advertise in zone chat for members. They do usually have a minimum you need to reach each week but that isn't hard to do.

With a central auction house three or four individuals could pick an item such as Perfect Roe and control the supply and price.

Sylvermynx

Yes

kargen27 wrote: »

Sibenice wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

It would wreck the economy. Common items would be priced at or below vendor prices. Rare items would be monopolized and increase dramatically in price. It happened in other MMO's (check complaints in their forums) and it would happen here.

That doesn't mean the current option is better where the market is monopolized by the few who are able to get in the big guilds. This system is also incredibly new player unfriendly.

There are over 200 guild traders. You can't have a monopoly of two hundred. A guild can't even control the prices within their own guild if they want a full guild of good members. New players can easily find a social guild that consistently gets a trader. It won't be in a prime location but it will still get a good amount of traffic. Two of my guilds get an out of the way trader just about every week and usually what I post there sells in just a couple of days. Crafting mats sell really well. So plenty of opportunity for new players.

I also see plenty of guilds that specialize in trading advertise in zone chat for members. They do usually have a minimum you need to reach each week but that isn't hard to do.

With a central auction house three or four individuals could pick an item such as Perfect Roe and control the supply and price.

Having spent many years in WoW and RIFT (with global AHs), I can say that really isn't probable. I watched idiots try to corner the market on stuff.

Didn't happen. There are so many ways around that. With this setup in this game.... the guilds HAVE cornered the market already.

Syy101

No

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Syy101 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Syy101 wrote: »

Big trade guilds are not that hard to get in. Some ppl exaggerate them as if they are some market-controlling syndicate lol

Um. In this game that's exactly how it works.

Wow, never knew that cuz I can't even get a sale if I post 10% more price unless it is a very cheap item.

I am in one of the Mournhold trading guilds. The weekly fee is only 10k. How about join and try it yourself and see if you can control the market?

Nope. Not interested. The trade guilds DO control the market because that's how the devs set it up. Not sure if they got benefits somehow, but I'm NOT going there. Y'all sit there on your over-inflated pricing, and I'll just keep thumbing my nose at you because, y'know, except for the odd motif, I don't need anything you're selling.

A global AH is a far more fair option. No, I don't expect any of you carrion birds to agree, and I don't care. I don't need gold. At all. And I'm not going to play your game. Of course - if they changed to a global AH, every one of you leeches would leave the game - so obviously that's not going to happen.

Sad.

lmao.

So you point is "I refuse to try something I have no clue about and would rather sit on my own imagination and scold all you evil guys and pretend that I don't care."

You don't want to make an effort that's fine, but stop making false accusation to those who do. It's like asking for a golden perfect trial gears to be sent directly to your mailbox and accuse that everyone who plays trials is a "no-life-game-difficulty-controlling evil guy".

FYI I don't sell motifs for a living.

Sylvermynx

Yes

Syy101 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Syy101 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Syy101 wrote: »

Big trade guilds are not that hard to get in. Some ppl exaggerate them as if they are some market-controlling syndicate lol

Um. In this game that's exactly how it works.

Wow, never knew that cuz I can't even get a sale if I post 10% more price unless it is a very cheap item.

I am in one of the Mournhold trading guilds. The weekly fee is only 10k. How about join and try it yourself and see if you can control the market?

Nope. Not interested. The trade guilds DO control the market because that's how the devs set it up. Not sure if they got benefits somehow, but I'm NOT going there. Y'all sit there on your over-inflated pricing, and I'll just keep thumbing my nose at you because, y'know, except for the odd motif, I don't need anything you're selling.

A global AH is a far more fair option. No, I don't expect any of you carrion birds to agree, and I don't care. I don't need gold. At all. And I'm not going to play your game. Of course - if they changed to a global AH, every one of you leeches would leave the game - so obviously that's not going to happen.

Sad.

lmao.

So you point is "I refuse to try something I have no clue about and would rather sit on my own imagination and scold all you evil guys and pretend that I don't care."

You don't want to make an effort that's fine, but stop making false accusation to those who do. It's like asking for a golden perfect trial gears to be sent directly to your mailbox and accuse that everyone who plays trials is a "no-life-game-difficulty-controlling evil guy".

FYI I don't sell motifs for a living.

*rolls eyes*

You have no clue. Works for me.

kargen27

No

Sylvermynx wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Sibenice wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

It would wreck the economy. Common items would be priced at or below vendor prices. Rare items would be monopolized and increase dramatically in price. It happened in other MMO's (check complaints in their forums) and it would happen here.

That doesn't mean the current option is better where the market is monopolized by the few who are able to get in the big guilds. This system is also incredibly new player unfriendly.

There are over 200 guild traders. You can't have a monopoly of two hundred. A guild can't even control the prices within their own guild if they want a full guild of good members. New players can easily find a social guild that consistently gets a trader. It won't be in a prime location but it will still get a good amount of traffic. Two of my guilds get an out of the way trader just about every week and usually what I post there sells in just a couple of days. Crafting mats sell really well. So plenty of opportunity for new players.

I also see plenty of guilds that specialize in trading advertise in zone chat for members. They do usually have a minimum you need to reach each week but that isn't hard to do.

With a central auction house three or four individuals could pick an item such as Perfect Roe and control the supply and price.

Having spent many years in WoW and RIFT (with global AHs), I can say that really isn't probable. I watched idiots try to corner the market on stuff.

Didn't happen. There are so many ways around that. With this setup in this game.... the guilds HAVE cornered the market already.

Again with 200 traders it is impossible to corner the market. A few individuals have taken advantage of going to PTS and seeing what will soon be the hot item and then try to stock up. They only enjoy a few hours before others have caught up and posted their own items. How many people does it take to monitor one location around the clock? How many people does it take to monitor 200 locations around the clock? Answer those two questions honestly and then tell me which system is more likely to have a monopoly on rare items.

Jhalin

No

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Syy101 wrote: »

Big trade guilds are not that hard to get in. Some ppl exaggerate them as if they are some market-controlling syndicate lol

Um. In this game that's exactly how it works.

No it's not, not even remotely. There's thousands upon thousands of users populating trade guilds and trader hubs. There's no way to stretch the definition of "monopoly" far enough for those thousands upon thousands of people to fit.

Go ask in any zone chat about trade guilds, you'll have people offering spots within minutes. The vast majority only ask that you stay active and sell things, maybe with a small per-week fee, and even then all I've been in waive that fee if you sell enough.

Trade guilds succeed because they are organized and put work into growing. You wanting to toss your trash items into a global AH in the hopes you'll spontaneously accrue wealth is laughable. The same way it's laughable you think a global AH would let you buy rare and highly sought after things cheaply.

Things that move fast like mats and reagents, the cheapest will constantly be spitting out "That listing is no longer available" messages because every single person looking for the same thing will be looking at the exact same listings you are . The rare and slow moving items can easily be automated by one person to buy and relist anything that comes up below a certain price point. In ESO's system, it's literally impossible to script your way into a monopoly of anything.

This system also eliminates so much inflation it's absurd. Billions of gold every week dumped into the void via listing fees and trader bids, with absolutely no other gold sink even close to that scale anywhere in sight. Prices have remained incredibly steady over the years, with most things getting cheaper as time goes on. This is by far the best multiplayer trade system I've ever taken part in. It's interesting and has no prerequisites before you can jump into it and start making gold, because everything has value. Raw tier 1 mats have value, alchemy reagents are always sellable, style materials from new content isn't level locked and often can be sold. Prices steadily decline on existing items and there's been no evidence of significant inflation for anything. It's an actual, free market, where location is important and prices change based on demand and supply, and no one is kept out of trading because so many things are valuable even from level 1.

Buyers learn the feel for the markets, they'll learn what place sells what, and where to go if they want cheaper listings and potions, or motifs and furnishing mats instead of gear and research pieces. If you refuse to engage with the system just because things aren't plastered all in one spot, and you possibly need to (god forbid) look around more than one stall, then it's most definitely a "you" problem, not anything inherently wrong with the system.

There is nothing on a trader you cannot obtain yourself. Absolutely nothing. Everything on guild traders is something you can get on your own. Motifs? Farmable. Gear? Farmable. Recipes? Farmable. Reagents? Farmable. Craft materials? Farmable.etc etc repeat ad infinitum

reoskit

Sylvermynx wrote: »

The trade guilds DO control the market because that's how the devs set it up. Not sure if they got benefits somehow, but I'm NOT going there.

Lol! Someone forgot to mail me my benefits package. I'd like to speak with your supervisor, ZOS.

VaranisArano

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Syy101 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Syy101 wrote: »

Big trade guilds are not that hard to get in. Some ppl exaggerate them as if they are some market-controlling syndicate lol

Um. In this game that's exactly how it works.

Wow, never knew that cuz I can't even get a sale if I post 10% more price unless it is a very cheap item.

I am in one of the Mournhold trading guilds. The weekly fee is only 10k. How about join and try it yourself and see if you can control the market?

Nope. Not interested. The trade guilds DO control the market because that's how the devs set it up. Not sure if they got benefits somehow, but I'm NOT going there. Y'all sit there on your over-inflated pricing, and I'll just keep thumbing my nose at you because, y'know, except for the odd motif, I don't need anything you're selling.

A global AH is a far more fair option. No, I don't expect any of you carrion birds to agree, and I don't care. I don't need gold. At all. And I'm not going to play your game. Of course - if they changed to a global AH, every one of you leeches would leave the game - so obviously that's not going to happen.

Sad.

I'm not quite sure I understand this argument. If you don't need to engage with the market, cool? I'm not sure how that makes those of us who do "leeches." Not everyone wants to be a self sufficient farmer, and so they can buy my columbine or not as they see fit.

But here's my experience.

I'm a member of three trading guilds on PC/NA, with varying sales requirements but no dues. This funds our trader bids and I usually well oversell the requirements (free, 1k -eventually 5k, and 25k a week, all in locations with good sales). I left one guild that swap to raffle requirements and found another trading guild quite quickly with a sales requirement that matched my needs. The guilds I'm in had open recruitment, so if someone wanted a spot, it wasnt hard. It's been very easy to search for guilds that fit my needs as a trader in terms of requirements and location.

I sell mainly alchemy reagents and raw materials, so the market price is rather flat. Lots of sellers, lots of buyers. If you don't like my price, you can shop elsewhere or go farm your own 50 columbine. Doesn't make a difference to me, since I'll relist them for a lower price only if they don't sell. They usually do.

When it comes to buying, I do a couple things. I shop "at home" first, checking what items my guilds have. Then, I'll go to the places where I know the traders have lots of listings: Craglorn, Mournhold, Elden Root, Wayrest, Rawlkha, Vivec. Then, if I still have time or I wasnt happy with prices, I'll search smaller traders from other provinces and DLC areas. I usually found reasonable prices, and when I didn't, I could wait or go farm the item myself.

All that does add up to a fair amount of time. Welcome to ESO, where ZOS constantly tries to get us to spend lots of time in game. So I suspect that's working as intended.

I've seen people attempt market manipulation a couple of times.
1. Bots corner the market on leshfly larva and clean pelts. They simply farm more, faster than anyone else and drop the price.
2. Someone decided to buy and relist all the minotaur chest motifs for 150k when the outfit system released. Most people, IIRC, chuckled and decided to be patient and just waited it out.
3. The price of housing mats predictably spiked when the Summerfall Psijic House released.

In all those cases, the same manipulation could happen with an auction house.


So, I'll be honest, my experience has not been anything that would lead me to characterize guilds as "carrion birds" or the traders who sell on them as "leeches". With the diversity of guilds that cater to people of different time investment and the variety of items you can sell in this game, anyone who wants to trade through a guild can find a guild that suits their needs and sales.

If you, personally, dont feel the need to engage in the trading guild scene or buy from guilds, that's fine with me.

However, if that's not sonething you have been or are interested in, I think your judgment is very much coming from being outside the system by your own choice. Having been inside several trading guilds, I found it easy to join, easy to find guilds that suited me, and easy to make fair sales on the items I farmed. It was also easy to find items to buy - given sufficient time, which again I suspect is working as intended - and if the price was too high for my taste, I can go farm the item myself.

reoskit

Very well said, @VaranisArano.