Possible solution to heavy armor/ impen meta

ftballjj20

So the purpose of this post is to come up with possible solutions to the heavy armor and impen trait meta

I suggest making crit damage effected by regular resistances. Now that leave the previous problem of aoe crit which i say could be balanced by adding a minor crit resistance buff being around 500. Also replace impen traits with something else

I believe freeing up the traits from impen and allowimg the use of divine trait or infused would allow for higher dps to counter the heavy armor meta.

It would alow for light armor builds to be viable by being able to increase their armor with nirnhoned and reinforced

Now i could just be wrong physical and spell resistances are already factored in crit damage.

Sheuib

What you want to die faster than you already do? Getting rid of impen trait is going to hurt light and medium more than heavy. That is the only defensive stat that is equal across all armor sets.

NyassaV

Undo the summerset light attack buff. That's when a lot of people moved to heavy and impreg because so much damage was being thrown out by everyone at no cost

I'm sure there are other solutions but that's where things escalated.

Sheuib

NyassaV wrote: »

Undo the summerset light attack buff. That's when a lot of people moved to heavy and impreg because so much damage was being thrown out by everyone at no cost

I'm sure there are other solutions but that's where things escalated.

Heavy was the meta way before that. Heavy became the meta back when it added spell power and weapon damage. When they took that away it got a little more even but heavy was still on top.

My suggestion is if you can't beat them then join them. I fought it for a long time as well but I finally had to take survivability over damage. Just work out a burst rotation not a max dps rotation.

casparian

Sheuib wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Undo the summerset light attack buff. That's when a lot of people moved to heavy and impreg because so much damage was being thrown out by everyone at no cost

I'm sure there are other solutions but that's where things escalated.

Heavy was the meta way before that. Heavy became the meta back when it added spell power and weapon damage. When they took that away it got a little more even but heavy was still on top.

My suggestion is if you can't beat them then join them. I fought it for a long time as well but I finally had to take survivability over damage. Just work out a burst rotation not a max dps rotation.

Heavy was the meta in olden days for a succession of reasons, largely having to do with the fact that you could get so much damage and sustain in heavy and that medium and light just didn't offer as much.

Today the situation is pretty much the same in the case of medium vs. heavy armor, with the added problem that heavy armor mobility is so much better than medium mobility.

It's different in the case of light armor. Sustain is much harder to come by for magicka builds than it used to be, and damage is harder to get for most magicka classes in heavy than it is in light. On the flip side, light armor is stronger than it used to be, relatively speaking. Unfortunately, some magicka classes still feel forced into heavy, not for the older reasons (greater survivability at very little cost), but for new reasons. In particular, it's that healing is way too *** in light on some classes to deal with how much damage even the most basic of pugs can now put out, even with high-mitigation light setups with Impreg and/or Protective, thanks in large part to the light attack buff from Summerset.

So maybe a better way to put it is that, while some of the reasons to prefer heavy over light are no longer the case, there's a new reason: the huge buff to random zerglings that the Summerset light attack changes introduced.

ftballjj20

casparian wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Undo the summerset light attack buff. That's when a lot of people moved to heavy and impreg because so much damage was being thrown out by everyone at no cost

I'm sure there are other solutions but that's where things escalated.

Heavy was the meta way before that. Heavy became the meta back when it added spell power and weapon damage. When they took that away it got a little more even but heavy was still on top.

My suggestion is if you can't beat them then join them. I fought it for a long time as well but I finally had to take survivability over damage. Just work out a burst rotation not a max dps rotation.

Heavy was the meta in olden days for a succession of reasons, largely having to do with the fact that you could get so much damage and sustain in heavy and that medium and light just didn't offer as much.

Today the situation is pretty much the same in the case of medium vs. heavy armor, with the added problem that heavy armor mobility is so much better than medium mobility.

It's different in the case of light armor. Sustain is much harder to come by for magicka builds than it used to be, and damage is harder to get for most magicka classes in heavy than it is in light. On the flip side, light armor is stronger than it used to be, relatively speaking. Unfortunately, some magicka classes still feel forced into heavy, not for the older reasons (greater survivability at very little cost), but for new reasons. In particular, it's that healing is way too *** in light on some classes to deal with how much damage even the most basic of pugs can now put out, even with high-mitigation light setups with Impreg and/or Protective, thanks in large part to the light attack buff from Summerset.

So maybe a better way to put it is that, while some of the reasons to prefer heavy over light are no longer the case, there's a new reason: the huge buff to random zerglings that the Summerset light attack changes introduced.

Freeing up traits by not being forced into impen will allow for higher max stats and for the invigor trait to increase recov. Divine could do the same depending om the m.s. used. I think will open the door for more options.

But of course anew meta would come out of it

Sheuib

If anyone doesn’t want to use impen they are perfectly welcome. Actually please everyone stop using impen and feed me kills. Thank you for the AP.

Kidgangster101

People wear heavy armor to counter the sheer damage people can put out in pvp lol. The problem is CP adds to much unesceary damage to pvp the same with proc sets. Anyone not in heavy armor gets melted by sets and CP.

Look at their last fix to "counter heavy meta" of raising bleed damage...... All that really did was make medium and light users get murdered by bleed damage lol.

All you dps out there that think you need more damage are high as a kite seriously. Nightblades can gank from stealth with 1-2 shots with so much damage on them that you can't always react lol.

Healing is nerfed by 50% then if you put defile on them it's what another 30%? So yeah healing is terrible, the solution is to more damage it should be balance the game. CP and proc sets make the game stupid.

Pvp should have it's own stat like toughness instead of defense. It needs to remove proc sets and monster helms so they can balance pvp finally.

And I know here comes the "people shouldn't be able to heal the damage I do" or "l2p because you can't counter a 1 shot" or better yet "I grinded for my CP and gear it shouldn't be removed" are the responses I'm gonna get but at the end of the day I know I'm right on this one.

If you want to kill fast you should join call of duty because this is a mmo we are supposed to have a healer, tank, and DPS not just dps

Vapirko

Wait what? You realize people would just run heavy still and have access to all the same traits right? The impen meta is fine. It’s just what it is. Don’t mess with something that’s creates a stable baseline.

Draxys

Heavy is fine, some heavy item sets are not. IMO, a heavy set shouldn’t give you 500-750 weapon damage. Reducing those or making them medium would go a long way towards keeping heavy tanky but not giving people tankiness with easy access to the best damage gear bonuses in the game.

idk

It

ftballjj20 wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Undo the summerset light attack buff. That's when a lot of people moved to heavy and impreg because so much damage was being thrown out by everyone at no cost

I'm sure there are other solutions but that's where things escalated.

Heavy was the meta way before that. Heavy became the meta back when it added spell power and weapon damage. When they took that away it got a little more even but heavy was still on top.

My suggestion is if you can't beat them then join them. I fought it for a long time as well but I finally had to take survivability over damage. Just work out a burst rotation not a max dps rotation.

Heavy was the meta in olden days for a succession of reasons, largely having to do with the fact that you could get so much damage and sustain in heavy and that medium and light just didn't offer as much.

Today the situation is pretty much the same in the case of medium vs. heavy armor, with the added problem that heavy armor mobility is so much better than medium mobility.

It's different in the case of light armor. Sustain is much harder to come by for magicka builds than it used to be, and damage is harder to get for most magicka classes in heavy than it is in light. On the flip side, light armor is stronger than it used to be, relatively speaking. Unfortunately, some magicka classes still feel forced into heavy, not for the older reasons (greater survivability at very little cost), but for new reasons. In particular, it's that healing is way too *** in light on some classes to deal with how much damage even the most basic of pugs can now put out, even with high-mitigation light setups with Impreg and/or Protective, thanks in large part to the light attack buff from Summerset.

So maybe a better way to put it is that, while some of the reasons to prefer heavy over light are no longer the case, there's a new reason: the huge buff to random zerglings that the Summerset light attack changes introduced.

Freeing up traits by not being forced into impen will allow for higher max stats and for the invigor trait to increase recov. Divine could do the same depending om the m.s. used. I think will open the door for more options.

But of course anew meta would come out of it

It is really a choice but a wise choice to use impen.

Your “solution” reads more like something you want just because you want it than an actual solution to anything. It certainly doesn’t seem to be a solution to the heavy armor meta as you suggest but more to push even more players to use HA, almost making it a requirement.

Vapirko

Draxys wrote: »

Heavy is fine, some heavy item sets are not. IMO, a heavy set shouldn’t give you 500-750 weapon damage. Reducing those or making them medium would go a long way towards keeping heavy tanky but not giving people tankiness with easy access to the best damage gear bonuses in the game.

I really gotta keep saying that this is not the main issue. Because those same sets are very useful to medium builds as well and aren’t OP when you’re trading tankiness for it. Also making them medium
Isn’t really a good option because it’s pretty important to have that heavy chest piece. Also, I have to ask, why does making those sets medium atop a heavy armor user from wearing the them? Heavy armor is king in a slow moving meta. Let medium builds actually be able to run circles around heavy armor first. The main issue in terms of damage (aside from the snare issue) in medium vs heavy is that medium armor has to lower its defenses to go offensive and heavy does not.

Wuuffyy

Reduce the amount of impen given by armor traits and cp. problem solved.

Kadoin

Oblivion damage sieges! I still want them for the ball groups to actually sweat for once...

Sheuib

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Reduce the amount of impen given by armor traits and cp. problem solved.

All that does is kill light and medium faster. Heavy will still be the hardest to kill.

magorim

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Reduce the amount of impen given by armor traits and cp. problem solved.

Hold on genius. There is no cp out there.

--

You want to know why people use heavy? Just some examples: Removal of counterplay, introduction of high damage procsets, one-dimensional changed game mechanics (e.g. status effects, enchants, etc.) and mobility is completly facked. Even in heavy (no cp examples) you'll get hit by 4-7k procs, 9k snipes, 8k incaps, 6k+ backlashes, stacking of 1.5k+ bleed ticks and so on. And you won't take that damage just from one person. So of course people will pick heavy. The heavy passivs are good and there are good sets, which allows you to play in such a bullshiet environment but heavy won't save you and it won't make you op. And taking sets away won't solve core issues.

Blame Zenimax, they're just dumb.

ruikkarikun

OP know what? Nerf nb. Understand?

ftballjj20

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

CP and proc sets make the game stupid.

Pvp should have it's own stat like toughness instead of defense. It needs to remove proc sets and monster helms so they can balance pvp finally.

Proc said need to 100 % be removed. I like the idea on the monster helms but not the ones that proc stuff based on a chance. I like the new one that goes something like "after 6 blocks u get..." . I think ones like lich are ok as well

validifyedneb18_ESO

I think a rework to the calculation so that the general mitigation of players remains the same but less armor (like <5k or <10k) has diminishing returns for mitigation.

Almost no player has that little resistance (lowest anyone is likely to have is like 10k), and would mean there is more balancing when choosing pen vs other traits. So pen would still be BIS for the first bit, but beyond 8k, more pen starts to be less valuable, to the point where its no longer BIS to max out the full 18k.

As for PVP, who the *** knows. There's too much involved in this than just a few sets or few abilities, there's a whole *** world of borderline un-killable builds out there.

Wuuffyy

magorim wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Reduce the amount of impen given by armor traits and cp. problem solved.

Hold on genius. There is no cp out there.

--

You want to know why people use heavy? Just some examples: Removal of counterplay, introduction of high damage procsets, one-dimensional changed game mechanics (e.g. status effects, enchants, etc.) and mobility is completly facked. Even in heavy (no cp examples) you'll get hit by 4-7k procs, 9k snipes, 8k incaps, 6k+ backlashes, stacking of 1.5k+ bleed ticks and so on. And you won't take that damage just from one person. So of course people will pick heavy. The heavy passivs are good and there are good sets, which allows you to play in such a bullshiet environment but heavy won't save you and it won't make you op. And taking sets away won't solve core issues.

Blame Zenimax, they're just dumb.

It adds to the misery bud. Impen is an abomination that makes people seem overtly tanky even in LA

Stx

All armor types are great in pvp. Even light armor is tanky when built right. I dont see anything wrong with building tanky in pvp, because the way stats work in this game you absolutely give up damage for tankiness.