Reduce Lich cooldown

grannas211

Datthaw wrote: »

Lol people saying magsorc needs sustain. You mean the 1 skill that heals and gives resources? If only we had a skill to create distance and then cast another skill to get back to 100% resources.....

Magsorc complaints make me lol

If youre implying dark deal "gets you back to 100% resources" after using streak you may want to "lol" at yourself.

Datthaw

grannas211 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Lol people saying magsorc needs sustain. You mean the 1 skill that heals and gives resources? If only we had a skill to create distance and then cast another skill to get back to 100% resources.....

Magsorc complaints make me lol

If youre implying dark deal "gets you back to 100% resources" after using streak you may want to "lol" at yourself.

Sorc fan boy confirmed. Are you gonna tell me how you have no heals next? And how pets are useless and then banned for all the duel tournaments and used in 50k heavy rotations. How about how streak is not a good escape or how the shield nerf hit magsorc the hardesst. Sorc tears are just funny.

ccmedaddy

Datthaw wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Lol people saying magsorc needs sustain. You mean the 1 skill that heals and gives resources? If only we had a skill to create distance and then cast another skill to get back to 100% resources.....

Magsorc complaints make me lol

If youre implying dark deal "gets you back to 100% resources" after using streak you may want to "lol" at yourself.

Sorc fan boy confirmed. Are you gonna tell me how you have no heals next? And how pets are useless and then banned for all the duel tournaments and used in 50k heavy rotations. How about how streak is not a good escape or how the shield nerf hit magsorc the hardesst. Sorc tears are just funny.

Wow that escalated quickly lol

Datthaw

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Lol people saying magsorc needs sustain. You mean the 1 skill that heals and gives resources? If only we had a skill to create distance and then cast another skill to get back to 100% resources.....

Magsorc complaints make me lol

If youre implying dark deal "gets you back to 100% resources" after using streak you may want to "lol" at yourself.

Sorc fan boy confirmed. Are you gonna tell me how you have no heals next? And how pets are useless and then banned for all the duel tournaments and used in 50k heavy rotations. How about how streak is not a good escape or how the shield nerf hit magsorc the hardesst. Sorc tears are just funny.

Wow that escalated quickly lol

Well it's a very parrot'ed false statement. Gets annoying

BlackMadara

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It averages 344 Magicka recovery. Seems balanced to me, especially since you lose almost nothing running it in a single bar.

I do agree that Mag Sorc and Mag DK need better sustain, but that should be handled through their class skills, not an armor set.

I don't understand why people state that sorc has low sustain, when it has passives for cost reduction and percentage increased regen. Can you explain?

cpuScientist

Datthaw wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Lol people saying magsorc needs sustain. You mean the 1 skill that heals and gives resources? If only we had a skill to create distance and then cast another skill to get back to 100% resources.....

Magsorc complaints make me lol

If youre implying dark deal "gets you back to 100% resources" after using streak you may want to "lol" at yourself.

Sorc fan boy confirmed. Are you gonna tell me how you have no heals next? And how pets are useless and then banned for all the duel tournaments and used in 50k heavy rotations. How about how streak is not a good escape or how the shield nerf hit magsorc the hardesst. Sorc tears are just funny.

Okokok let me try. Sorc has pet heal cdit surge and dark deal. Pet heal requires the use of 2 slots and heals for about as much as breath which is a darn tootin lot. And it does good damage to boot. Single Target damage. They are los-able and are thus banned in tourney's. The 50k rotation is new to this pts. And Nightblade non pet sorcs magPlar pulled alot higher without. This patch the twilight is darn good single Target and if you run it like a normal sorcs just with the twilight again cause of changes in wrathstone it is good. Before wrathstone pure pet builds were quite the meh compared to other classes and even non pet sorcs. Streak is an escape that is negated by a gap closer. Which is why people usually slot a gap closer in duels against people who streak ALOT in the duel to reset the fight. But it's good enough the stacking cost and clunkines is a pain though, but it's a staple and if used correctly and the terrain allows for it can get you out of tough spots even if they have a gap closer. Shield changes obviously affected sorc the most as they certainly relied on shields the most. But what really hurt them and magBlade was the loss of the heal on healing ward.

Sorc is in a the same spot they have been in since before summerset. Since their frag stun got taken away. They got a core mechanic stripped away and zos has fumbled trying to fix it with cage change after change finally settling it seems on the most easily reactable stun in the game that has basically no secondary effect. And leaving PvE sorcs with no sustain still (dark deal don't work in pve and compare the resource restore to other classes skills and you will see it is lacking). So wherever sorcs were back before the cagemaggedon of summerset they are now.

Oh and when people say pets are useless. I think they mostly mean the scamp. He's crap open world not worth the slots but the matriarch for the heal is good though she dies to siege alot but she's fine open world for the heal not the damage and her 2 slots on an already cramped bar is a heavy price but worth cause it's the classes only real reliable heal. Also the atro only useful if the people you are fighting reeeeeeally want you dead. And don't mind taking a zapping. It's a good area denial ultimate for sure. And in a duel where there is only one Target man all those pets are whew but open world they are meh.

cpuScientist

On the role of lich though. That set only needing to be on one bar is why it is strong and doesn't need a change.

It is however a PvP set. Has no place in pve and there are more than 2 options for DPS on mag classes. There may be 2 best but even julianos is still competitive. The sustain needs to be added to the classes so they can catch up to Nightblade and magPlar not to a set.

If you have trouble with sustain use witch mothers/clockwork use a Magicka absorb glyph if still in need use a lightning and add a heavy to your rotation or use moondancer if in groups. Use mages guild spell sym. These are not amazing options as other classes that have parsed higher do not have to resort to all of this but these are the options.

usmcjdking

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It averages 344 Magicka recovery. Seems balanced to me, especially since you lose almost nothing running it in a single bar.

I do agree that Mag Sorc and Mag DK need better sustain, but that should be handled through their class skills, not an armor set.

I don't agree. The basis for this statement is usually performance based on a few select sets and balancing classes around the strength of the same selection of sets which all largely do the same thing in the same manner.

I'd much rather leave their sustain in the dumpster and buff their damage overall. As miserably boring as Heavy Attack pet sorc is, at least it's completely and fundamentally different than anything else.

PhoenixGrey

Datthaw wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Lol people saying magsorc needs sustain. You mean the 1 skill that heals and gives resources? If only we had a skill to create distance and then cast another skill to get back to 100% resources.....

Magsorc complaints make me lol

If youre implying dark deal "gets you back to 100% resources" after using streak you may want to "lol" at yourself.

Sorc fan boy confirmed. Are you gonna tell me how you have no heals next? And how pets are useless and then banned for all the duel tournaments and used in 50k heavy rotations. How about how streak is not a good escape or how the shield nerf hit magsorc the hardesst. Sorc tears are just funny.

Wow that escalated quickly lol

Well it's a very parrot'ed false statement. Gets annoying

Taking cues from a stamblade playbook !

Datthaw

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Lol people saying magsorc needs sustain. You mean the 1 skill that heals and gives resources? If only we had a skill to create distance and then cast another skill to get back to 100% resources.....

Magsorc complaints make me lol

If youre implying dark deal "gets you back to 100% resources" after using streak you may want to "lol" at yourself.

Sorc fan boy confirmed. Are you gonna tell me how you have no heals next? And how pets are useless and then banned for all the duel tournaments and used in 50k heavy rotations. How about how streak is not a good escape or how the shield nerf hit magsorc the hardesst. Sorc tears are just funny.

Wow that escalated quickly lol

Well it's a very parrot'ed false statement. Gets annoying

Taking cues from a stamblade playbook !

Magnb actually.

kind_hero

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

sorry but the Lich set is fine as it is now...its used in PVP on healers, on their backbar, so they can proc it, and swap away

in PVE, where you run a vMA weapon on the back bar, this set isnt really a viable option.
If you have problems sustaining in PVE, make sure to use a absorb glyph on a staff, and run regfood like withcmothers
If that aint enough, take a jelwerypiece with reg enchant

Funny how every time someone asks for an opinion on a set/build combination, people assume that everyone has a vMA staff or bow, the meta bar setup, race, gear, and so on.

It is like you can't do veteran dungeons or any meaningful content without the vMA weapons, without the perfected versions.

If people have the vMA weapons, most likely I don't really need advice on sets like the Lich! Not everyone started 5 years ago, or plays the same game like you.

Anyway.. I also have this set, and it does not help much, except for PvP. If in doubt, use Julianos and an other damage set, maybe you can farm Cloudrest for Siroria, or AA (but Inf. Aether is not that good anymore)

cpuScientist

kind_hero wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

sorry but the Lich set is fine as it is now...its used in PVP on healers, on their backbar, so they can proc it, and swap away

in PVE, where you run a vMA weapon on the back bar, this set isnt really a viable option.
If you have problems sustaining in PVE, make sure to use a absorb glyph on a staff, and run regfood like withcmothers
If that aint enough, take a jelwerypiece with reg enchant

Funny how every time someone asks for an opinion on a set/build combination, people assume that everyone has a vMA staff or bow, the meta bar setup, race, gear, and so on.

It is like you can't do veteran dungeons or any meaningful content without the vMA weapons, without the perfected versions.

If people have the vMA weapons, most likely I don't really need advice on sets like the Lich! Not everyone started 5 years ago, or plays the same game like you.

Anyway.. I also have this set, and it does not help much, except for PvP. If in doubt, use Julianos and an other damage set, maybe you can farm Cloudrest for Siroria, or AA (but Inf. Aether is not that good anymore)

Which is why people will ask if you have it. It gives insight just like you said. Further it is quite old content and many assume it was completed already.

But yeah Lich is bad. And like you said when in doubt use julianos. But that's assuming they have a max crafter from 5 years ago or have a guild that can craft it or gold to buy it. EVERYTHING is an assumption lol.

kind_hero

@cpuScientist true, with the mention that Julianos is easy to craft or, it is relatively cheap to buy from guild store, opposed to the vMA weapons which are quite hard to get. I am talking from a casual player perspective, who most likely will never do vMA, but by doing pledges, or having farmed the mask during the motif season, might get the Lich set. If a new player joins a guild 99% there will be someone there that will craft starter sets for free or for a minimal fee.

I have 810 cp now, and still haven't done vMA (I did nMA a few times, but don't really need push myself to get the weapons for the content I am doing and plan on doing)

SkysOutThizeOut

Outside of a perfect desert rose proc over the course of a minute, this set offers the largest amount of mag recovery in the game.

Koolio

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

Outside of a perfect desert rose proc over the course of a minute, this set offers the largest amount of mag recovery in the game.

I did the breakdown of most sets above and it’s actually one of the lower ones.

SkysOutThizeOut

@Koolio what beats it?

ccmedaddy

Lich doesn't seem as good as other sets on paper but it's one of the few sustain sets that benefit from things like Minor/Major Intellect, CPs, armor passives, etc. It also has the most generous proc condition. It doesn't need any buffs.

Koolio

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Lich doesn't seem as good as other sets on paper but it's one of the few sustain sets that benefit from things like Minor/Major Intellect, CPs, armor passives, etc. It also has the most generous proc condition. It doesn't need any buffs.

This is very true.


@SkysOutThizeOut just look at the first page of this thread. Those are rough numbers but even with every % base regen value Lich will never beat Syrabanes grip as far as sustain. The proc is way more conditional.


I would rate it right in line with Magicka Furnace with a more universal proc. Even though magicka furnace is technically better

Minalan

It really depends on how you play in PVP.

Lich is BIS for solo and small group sorcs, while fighting ridiculously outnumbered.

Yeah, if you're just one more potato in a warden ball group or a Zerg big enough to force disconnect the enemy, then use something else.

SkysOutThizeOut

It’s the best sustain set for solo/small scale pvp, especially since it’s one bar. And I have done the math.
Granted we have a 1.6 modifier on our mag recovery
10% cp
10% vamp
20% light armor
20% from pots
1.6 x 1032 = 1651.2
1.6 x (129+129) = 412.8
We know recovery is represented by every 2 seconds. And we will base our assumption off 1 minute.
1651.2 x 10 = 16512
412.8 x 30 = 12384
Add together for total 28,896 magicka recovered over a minute. The only condition being falling below 33% magicka which happens extremely quickly in small scale. And yes when I played magdk for the last 2 years I had those modifiers in cp. usually have 13% in cp instead of 10%

Syrabane requires you to block for the entirety of 60 seconds... you don’t have that stam.... and requires a magicka person to not miss a beat hitting you during that time. It’s super conditional.

Koolio

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

It’s the best sustain set for solo/small scale pvp, especially since it’s one bar. And I have done the math.
Granted we have a 1.6 modifier on our mag recovery
10% cp
10% vamp
20% light armor
20% from pots
1.6 x 1032 = 1651.2
1.6 x (129+129) = 412.8
We know recovery is represented by every 2 seconds. And we will base our assumption off 1 minute.
1651.2 x 10 = 16512
412.8 x 30 = 12384
Add together for total 28,896 magicka recovered over a minute. The only condition being falling below 33% magicka which happens extremely quickly in small scale. And yes when I played magdk for the last 2 years I had those modifiers in cp. usually have 13% in cp instead of 10%

Syrabane requires you to block for the entirety of 60 seconds... you don’t have that stam.... and requires a magicka person to not miss a beat hitting you during that time. It’s super conditional.

You also have to spend magic while below( -3k magic) for most moves. Most people also back bar it so you lose the 129 from the 4th piece bonus.

But you also forgot continuous attack in there.

If you are already stacking as much regen as you are (sorc gets Minor int from empowered ward) then getting that proc per minute become less and less you might get it 8 times out of a 10 min fight. This would only be the case if you were already stacking that much regen. So it almost can’t that much magic per minute with the situation you’ve listed.

Syrabane can also be used with an ice staff but the regen is halted.

Imo Desert Rose is the better magic regen set but requires both bars and not cleansing (but it can work in mist form where Lich does not)


But as regarding the original intention of this thread

Lich does not need a buff. It is the most reliable of all regen sets.