Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Any race, any alliance
martijnlv40
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As things stand right now, I want to change my Altmer sorc to a Breton sorc. I don't want to go in to a discussion about it, I just think for the content that I do and enjoy, I want a Breton. But I'm not in posession of 'any race, any alliance'. I just want to ask zos for a two week period after the patch goes live in which you don't need that upgrade to change faction/race beyond your faction. As has been said many times, these balance changes feel a bit like a cash grab, and I tend to disagree, but since I've realised that you need this upgrade to change beyond your three 'chosen races', I do feel like it's a cash grab...
3
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AntonShan✭✭✭✭ZOS will already give you 3 race change and 3 name change tokens. Is it not enough for you?7 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think you'll get it. Especially as it would be unfair to everyone who's actually purchased this.
You're asking for access to do something you've never had the ability to do before because you don't want to pay like everyone else who had access to the feature.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."12 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Don't think this is much of a problem. Any Race Any Alliance will cost you 600k gold at most. It is entirely possible to make that in a single week.0 -
macsmooth✭✭✭✭Your gonna get a lot of for and against on this
I agree without this pack the free race change limits you to only the races in your alliance which might not be a better race than the one you already have
The alliance pack is just shy of 2k crowns in the store I would expect that to go on sale soon to go with the race changing scandal, my only advice would be to sub a subscription for a month or maybe two and get the crowns you need for the adventure pack and maybe the imperial pack to
I’m not against the request even though I bought the adventure pack so I could have any race0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Your gonna get a lot of for and against on this
I agree without this pack the free race change limits you to only the races in your alliance which might not be a better race than the one you already have
The alliance pack is just shy of 2k crowns in the store I would expect that to go on sale soon to go with the race changing scandal, my only advice would be to sub a subscription for a month or maybe two and get the crowns you need for the adventure pack and maybe the imperial pack to
I’m not against the request even though I bought the adventure pack so I could have any race
They need to drop it to like 500 crowns or something nominal.2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...Edited by Mayrael on February 14, 2019 11:17AMI'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.2 -
macsmooth✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Your gonna get a lot of for and against on this
I agree without this pack the free race change limits you to only the races in your alliance which might not be a better race than the one you already have
The alliance pack is just shy of 2k crowns in the store I would expect that to go on sale soon to go with the race changing scandal, my only advice would be to sub a subscription for a month or maybe two and get the crowns you need for the adventure pack and maybe the imperial pack to
I’m not against the request even though I bought the adventure pack so I could have any race
They need to drop it to like 500 crowns or something nominal.
Lol you banked your free crowns, I did too
At a guess it will be 40% or 50% is their usual sales discount
Edited by macsmooth on February 14, 2019 11:20AM0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...
Because you made your current choice based on performance at the time. Balance was just flipped on its head and your race may no longer be optimal, forcing you to switch to a race in a different faction.
People who picked a suboptimal race before did so knowingly.3 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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However anyone who knows about game balance in an MMO would understand that choosing the optimal choice might not last forever. They should have taken that choice with the understanding that the meta could shift in a huge way and require a change at some point.MLGProPlayer wrote: »You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...
Because you made your current choice based on performance at the time. Balance was just flipped on its head and your race may no longer be optimal, forcing you to switch to a race in a different faction.
People who picked a suboptimal race before did so knowingly.
At least people can change race, and get three free changes from ZOS, that's more than I have seen other games do when they flip things this much.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."7 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
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However anyone who knows about game balance in an MMO would understand that choosing the optimal choice might not last forever. They should have taken that choice with the understanding that the meta could shift in a huge way and require a change at some point.MLGProPlayer wrote: »You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...
Because you made your current choice based on performance at the time. Balance was just flipped on its head and your race may no longer be optimal, forcing you to switch to a race in a different faction.
People who picked a suboptimal race before did so knowingly.
At least people can change race, and get three free changes from ZOS, that's more than I have seen other games do when they flip things this much.
ARAA isn't cheap though. It's $20.
I'm not sure how much race change costs in other games, but this won't be cheap for a lot of players in ESO.
EDIT: It's $32 in WoW per character. All MMO devs are scammers.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 14, 2019 11:27AM0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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Maybe ZOS could do a discount on it? However it's getting ridiculous how much we're asking for free because of a balance pass and people not wanting to accept the choices they made when chasing the meta.MLGProPlayer wrote: »
However anyone who knows about game balance in an MMO would understand that choosing the optimal choice might not last forever. They should have taken that choice with the understanding that the meta could shift in a huge way and require a change at some point.MLGProPlayer wrote: »You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...
Because you made your current choice based on performance at the time. Balance was just flipped on its head and your race may no longer be optimal, forcing you to switch to a race in a different faction.
People who picked a suboptimal race before did so knowingly.
At least people can change race, and get three free changes from ZOS, that's more than I have seen other games do when they flip things this much.
ARAA isn't cheap though. It's $20.
I'm not sure how much race change costs in other games, but this won't be cheap for a lot of players in ESO.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
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Maybe ZOS could do a discount on it? However it's getting ridiculous how much we're asking for free because of a balance pass and people not wanting to accept the choices they made when chasing the meta.MLGProPlayer wrote: »
However anyone who knows about game balance in an MMO would understand that choosing the optimal choice might not last forever. They should have taken that choice with the understanding that the meta could shift in a huge way and require a change at some point.MLGProPlayer wrote: »You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...
Because you made your current choice based on performance at the time. Balance was just flipped on its head and your race may no longer be optimal, forcing you to switch to a race in a different faction.
People who picked a suboptimal race before did so knowingly.
At least people can change race, and get three free changes from ZOS, that's more than I have seen other games do when they flip things this much.
ARAA isn't cheap though. It's $20.
I'm not sure how much race change costs in other games, but this won't be cheap for a lot of players in ESO.
Choices are made based on current information.
Let's assume you bought a PS4. 2 years later, Sony decides to lower your performance by 20% in order to sell more of their slim model. They also give you the option to top up your current PS4 as a gratuity (but it would still cost you some money).
I'm not sure why MMO devs can get away with this kind of stuff. No other product/service category could pull that kind of behaviour off without customers going irate. Maybe that's why the industry (as a whole) is shrinking?Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 14, 2019 11:37AM3 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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Because this is a balance pass in a game, most people who have played any kind of persistent online game should understand this happens.MLGProPlayer wrote: »I'm not sure why MMO devs can get away with this kind of stuff. No other product/service category could pull that kind of behaviour off without customers going irate. Maybe that's why the industry (as a whole) is shrinking?
Contrary to everyone's wild conspiracy theories though it's not some cash grab from ZOS, just heavy handed and somewhat illogical balance changes.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
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Because this is a balance pass in a game, most people who have played any kind of persistent online game should understand this happens.MLGProPlayer wrote: »I'm not sure why MMO devs can get away with this kind of stuff. No other product/service category could pull that kind of behaviour off without customers going irate. Maybe that's why the industry (as a whole) is shrinking?
Contrary to everyone's wild conspiracy theories though it's not some cash grab from ZOS, just heavy handed and somewhat illogical balance changes.
MMO publishers make money from balance patches though. If their motivations were truly altruistic, they wouldn't charge for race changes at all. If they didn't want people to race change all the time, they could limit it to 1 change per character every 6 months or something. I'm not just talking about ZOS now, but all MMO devs (since this kind of practice seems to be endemic).Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 14, 2019 11:53AM2 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah I know and ZOS could do a lot more to make people happy with the changes, it just bugs me that everyone always runs this theory that ZOS is some super mastermind at manipulating us to make money, yet apparently also too incompetent to balance the game right.MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Because this is a balance pass in a game, most people who have played any kind of persistent online game should understand this happens.MLGProPlayer wrote: »I'm not sure why MMO devs can get away with this kind of stuff. No other product/service category could pull that kind of behaviour off without customers going irate. Maybe that's why the industry (as a whole) is shrinking?
Contrary to everyone's wild conspiracy theories though it's not some cash grab from ZOS, just heavy handed and somewhat illogical balance changes.
MMO publishers make money from balance patches though. If their motivations were truly altruistic, they wouldn't charge for race changes at all. If they didn't want people to race change all the time, they could limit it to 1 change per character every 6 months or something. I'm not just talking about ZOS now, but all MMO devs (since this kind of practice seems to be endemic).
In my experience I've never seen a dev team balance a game just to make money, and I've seen a mix of in game tokens or cash shop tokens in regards to changing.
We probably won't fully agree on this and I'd rather not derail the whole thread with this debate, can I concede you may be the wiser party?
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah I know and ZOS could do a lot more to make people happy with the changes, it just bugs me that everyone always runs this theory that ZOS is some super mastermind at manipulating us to make money, yet apparently also too incompetent to balance the game right.MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Because this is a balance pass in a game, most people who have played any kind of persistent online game should understand this happens.MLGProPlayer wrote: »I'm not sure why MMO devs can get away with this kind of stuff. No other product/service category could pull that kind of behaviour off without customers going irate. Maybe that's why the industry (as a whole) is shrinking?
Contrary to everyone's wild conspiracy theories though it's not some cash grab from ZOS, just heavy handed and somewhat illogical balance changes.
MMO publishers make money from balance patches though. If their motivations were truly altruistic, they wouldn't charge for race changes at all. If they didn't want people to race change all the time, they could limit it to 1 change per character every 6 months or something. I'm not just talking about ZOS now, but all MMO devs (since this kind of practice seems to be endemic).
In my experience I've never seen a dev team balance a game just to make money, and I've seen a mix of in game tokens or cash shop tokens in regards to changing.
We probably won't fully agree on this and I'd rather not derail the whole thread with this debate, can I concede you may be the wiser party?
You're not wrong. I'm probably discounting the role of incompetence too much here. But yeah, we can end this discussion here.
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Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't know why it isn't base game to be fair. Kinda dumb it isn't after how much they've watered down alliance importance.1 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭ZOS will already give you 3 race change and 3 name change tokens. Is it not enough for you?
That it is, but it's not exactly in the same category. These tokens are limited.I don't think you'll get it. Especially as it would be unfair to everyone who's actually purchased this.
You're asking for access to do something you've never had the ability to do before because you don't want to pay like everyone else who had access to the feature.
That's why I asked for a two week period, I get that it's not really fair, but it isn't fair either way.Your gonna get a lot of for and against on this
I agree without this pack the free race change limits you to only the races in your alliance which might not be a better race than the one you already have
The alliance pack is just shy of 2k crowns in the store I would expect that to go on sale soon to go with the race changing scandal, my only advice would be to sub a subscription for a month or maybe two and get the crowns you need for the adventure pack and maybe the imperial pack to
I’m not against the request even though I bought the adventure pack so I could have any race
I would be happy with a temporary discount on the pack too!MLGProPlayer wrote: »You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...
When I first chose my race, I had no idea of the meta. I just looked at the bonuses on the wiki, I always like the Altmer and I went with that. That's it. Now I know a bit more about the game, and what content I enjoy in it. For that I would like to have another race. It's not about which race is better (I guess theoretically Altmer is the best, since sustain sometimes doesn't matter (high-end raid groups), but the race I want to play with. Since they changed the racial passives around quite a bit, the role for my Alter cannot really be the same. I don't want to get in on the recovery details or anything, since that will just give a lot of discussion, but I feel like after these far-reaching changes, you need to be given full freedom again.
Also I only have two toons, so I don't have a lot of options. I'm also personally happy with three tokens total.0 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭Can I actually use all 3 Tokens on the same character? I really wanna Test different races for my PvP build (Nord, dunmer, Breton)0
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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My issue with a two week period of free access is there is nothing stopping everyone who's never purchased it just making or changing all their characters in those two weeks and never having purchase the upgrade.martijnlv40 wrote: »I don't think you'll get it. Especially as it would be unfair to everyone who's actually purchased this.
You're asking for access to do something you've never had the ability to do before because you don't want to pay like everyone else who had access to the feature.
That's why I asked for a two week period, I get that it's not really fair, but it isn't fair either way.
Now I am not one of those "we paid so everyone else has to" people, but it's a pretty big insult to those who have paid (especially since these PTS notes went up) that many people just get to do this for free now.
I'd much rather see ZOS give a discount on the any race/alliance bundle, even if that still would rub some salt into recent purchasers wounds.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭ARAA should by now be basegame sry...
This feature was good before 1T, when EP played with EP, and the diveristy was way lower...now however man yppl want to be the best race, no matter if they can get the benefits from oit or not.
and after 5 years the ARAA can become basegame no prob IMO.PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer2 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭I purchased any race any alliance when I bought the game. I have no problem with at this point in the games life cycle making that part of the base game. The only people you are hurting by not allowing it for free is the people who think $20 is more than they can afford to pay. People in that boat have enough other things to worry about or are kids. Give em a break.3 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...
Because you made your current choice based on performance at the time. Balance was just flipped on its head and your race may no longer be optimal, forcing you to switch to a race in a different faction.
People who picked a suboptimal race before did so knowingly.
That's why you should read my last sentence:
"Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka..."
As Turelus wrote, BiS is just a matter of time. Meta shifts with available options, even sets that synergize better with some passives can change it. If you want to chase the meta, you need to be prepared for some spendings. If you don't like to chase the meta just pick what you can and move on.Edited by Mayrael on February 14, 2019 12:50PMI'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.1 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...
Because you made your current choice based on performance at the time. Balance was just flipped on its head and your race may no longer be optimal, forcing you to switch to a race in a different faction.
People who picked a suboptimal race before did so knowingly.
That's why you should read my last sentence:
"Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka..."
As Turelus wrote, BiS is just a matter of time. Meta shifts with available options, even sets that synergize better with some passives can change it. If you want to chase the meta, you need to be prepared for some spendings. If you don't like to chase the meta just pick what you can and move on.
I get what you mean, but as I said I'm not after meta. I'm after the right toon for my playstyle. In that, I need some sustain. That 9% is not much on an Altmer right now, I get that, but I made the decision before I understood the game. With the free racial change tokens we're getting now, plus all the racial changes, I would still like to be able to make a choice, not necessarily going after the meta race.0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...
Because you made your current choice based on performance at the time. Balance was just flipped on its head and your race may no longer be optimal, forcing you to switch to a race in a different faction.
People who picked a suboptimal race before did so knowingly.
That's why you should read my last sentence:
"Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka..."
As Turelus wrote, BiS is just a matter of time. Meta shifts with available options, even sets that synergize better with some passives can change it. If you want to chase the meta, you need to be prepared for some spendings. If you don't like to chase the meta just pick what you can and move on.
EP:
Tanking -> Nord, Argonian
DD -> Dunmer
Healer -> Argonian
AD:
Tank -> Altmer???
Healer -> Khajit / altmer??
DD -> Khajit...maybe Altmer
DC:
Tank: Orc, Redguard??
Healer -> Breton
DD -> Orc, Redguard, Breton
doesnt seem balanced in terms of every alliance can do everything ....if you dont have ARAA and play AD (example)...how do you wana tank? ...altmer or what?
Those Race changes woul d make the choice between races and content not better as they are now
PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer3 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
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hakan✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »You have no access to this feature right now, thus you were limited to certain races when picking up alliance. Why would ZOS have to give it to you now? Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka...
Because you made your current choice based on performance at the time. Balance was just flipped on its head and your race may no longer be optimal, forcing you to switch to a race in a different faction.
People who picked a suboptimal race before did so knowingly.
That's why you should read my last sentence:
"Each alliance have pretty decent options for both stamina and magicka..."
As Turelus wrote, BiS is just a matter of time. Meta shifts with available options, even sets that synergize better with some passives can change it. If you want to chase the meta, you need to be prepared for some spendings. If you don't like to chase the meta just pick what you can and move on.
EP:
Tanking -> Nord, Argonian
DD -> Dunmer
Healer -> Argonian
AD:
Tank -> Altmer???
Healer -> Khajit / altmer??
DD -> Khajit...maybe Altmer
DC:
Tank: Orc, Redguard??
Healer -> Breton
DD -> Orc, Redguard, Breton
doesnt seem balanced in terms of every alliance can do everything ....if you dont have ARAA and play AD (example)...how do you wana tank? ...altmer or what?
Those Race changes woul d make the choice between races and content not better as they are now
There is always Imperial 1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. If you want to race change to Breton because of [reasons] buy the Adventure Pack. Why should it be handed out for free?PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1
