Stamina Race Solo Parse Comparison - PTS v4.3.3 - Stamsorc

LiquidPony

Test Setup

Gear:

• 5 x Perfect Relequen (5 medium, all Divines, all stam enchants)
• 5 x Advancing Yokeda (1 x Infused neck, 2 x Bloodthirsty rings, all weapon damage enchants, Nirnhoned + Poison dagger, Infused + Absorb Stamina dagger)
• 2 x Velidreth (2 medium, Divines, stam enchants)
• 1 x Infused Maelstrom Bow with Berserker enchant

Offensive CP:

64 Mighty, 56 Thaumaturge, 56 Precise Strikes, 29 Piercing, 56 Master-at-Arms, 9 Physical Weapons Expert

Other Stuff
Lavafoot food, Weapon Power pots, Vampire Stage 2+, Lover Mundus, totally solo 6mil parse

Here's a Superstar image of the build with the standard bar setup, on a Redguard:


Races tested
Imperial, Khajiit, Dunmer, Orc, Redguard, Bosmer

Rotations

Rending Slashes rotation
1. Greater Storm Atronach
2. Endless Hail, LA Caltrops, LA Poison Inject, swap
3. LA Hurricane, LA Rearming Trap, LA Rending Slashes x 6, LA swap
4. Go to 2

Greater Storm Atronach dropped when ready, always at the end of the bow rotation (after Poison Injection).

Heavy attacks were used as follows:
1. Orc & Dunmer: 1 heavy attack per DW pass the entire rotation
2. Khajiit: 1 heavy attack per DW pass until 25%
3. Imperial: 1 heavy attack per DW pass until 50%

Redguard and Bosmer were full LA rotations throughout.

Rapid Strikes rotation (Redguard only)
1. Greater Storm Atronach
2. Endless Hail, LA Caltrops, LA Poison Inject, swap
3. LA Hurricane, LA Rearming Trap, LA Rending Slashes, LA Rapid Strikes x 5, LA swap
4. Go to 2

Crushing Weapon rotation (Bosmer only)
1. Greater Storm Atronach
2. Endless Hail, LA Caltrops, LA Poison Inect, swap
3. LA Hurricane, LA Rearming Trap, LA Rending Slashes, LA Crushing Weapon x 5, LA swap
4. Go to 2

This rotation used 1 heavy attack per DW pass until 50%, all LAs after that.

Reasoning
I like to use a stamsorc for testing because the rotation is stupid simple and the DPS is generally very consistent (i.e., it doesn't have a bunch of variability based on Killer's Blade/Spectral Bow proc crits like a stamblade).

One thing to note: Greater Storm Atronach can proc Minor Vulnerability, which does introduce a bit of variance. To avoid that skewing the results too much, I threw out any parses that had Minor Vulnerability uptime less than 3% or greater than 9% (so all parses have either 3%/6%/9% Minor Vulnerability, which is 1/2/3 Concussion procs). The end result is that Minor Vulnerability should only contribute at most 0.7% DPS increase and at least 0.24% (for a spread of 0.46%).

Parse Results
Quick note: Besides the note about Minor Vulnerability above, I also threw out any parses where I made any obvious mistakes (either due to lag or just human error). All said (aside from the tune-up parses to figure out where to switch from HAs to LAs on the applicable races), I did about a dozen parses on each race.



I also attempted to swap to an Absorb Stamina enchant on the bow (swapping Berserker to the Infused dagger) to use a full LA rotation; this was only possible on Imperial and Khajiit (Orc and Dunmer could not sustain the whole thing). DPS was uniformly lower than the parses posted above so I chose not to include them. It's the same story with attempting to use Crushing Weapon or Rapid Strikes on other races: I couldn't sustain with a single HA per rotation so I chose not to do the full process with that setup, though I may later.

I plan to repeat the parses with Veiled Heritance replacing Advancing Yokeda later this week.

bongtokin420insd16

So Stamsorc seems very close to the numbers with RG and Bosmer leading slightly.

MashmalloMan

bongtokin420insd16 wrote: »

So Stamsorc seems very close to the numbers with RG and Bosmer leading slightly.

Makes sense to me, sustain races favour Stam sorc more because they lack class sustain.

Also redguard gets cheaper bow ulti's, might parse better, although I like storm atro more due to its group synergy.

Well done.

LiquidPony

Marshall1289 wrote: »

bongtokin420insd16 wrote: »

So Stamsorc seems very close to the numbers with RG and Bosmer leading slightly.

Makes sense to me, sustain races favour Stam sorc more because they lack class sustain.

Also redguard gets cheaper bow ulti's, might parse better, although I like storm atro more due to its group synergy.

Well done.

At some point I'll probably redo the whole thing with Ballista if I find the time. It will remove the Minor Vulnerability variance and tighten up the parse spreads a bit.

susmitds

Good stuff.

One small thing though, optimizing each race's recovery so that it can sustain mostly with LA will boost their DPS cap.

Like putting a stamina recovery on a Bloodthirsty ring for the Orc, will give them enough sustain (178 stamina recovery+76 weapon Damage vs Bosmer's 254 stamina recovery) to pass Bosmer. Also if you put stamina recovery on the Infused neck, you will have almost the exact recovery and damage as Bosmer.

LiquidPony

susmitds wrote: »

Good stuff.

One small thing though, optimizing each race's recovery so that it can sustain mostly with LA will boost their DPS cap.

Like putting a stamina recovery on a Bloodthirsty ring for the Orc, will give them enough sustain (178 stamina recovery+76 weapon Damage vs Bosmer's 254 stamina recovery) to pass Bosmer. Also if you put stamina recovery on the Infused neck, you will have almost the exact recovery and damage as Bosmer.

I don't think that I'll be running recovery glyphs in actual content. Never have before. I suspect that for races with poor sustain I will look to run Artaeum Takeaway Broth and boost health elsewhere, if necessary.

In which case I do think Orc will probably pull very slightly ahead but, aside from Imperial, I doubt there will be a significant difference between any of the races.

*Edit: it is worth testing though. Will possibly update later.

*Just a handful of tests, certainly not definitive, but for instance on a Khajiit using an Infused Stamina Recovery glyph on the neck, I just did three parses averaging ~44.3k using Crushing Weapon and a full LA rotation. Sustain is *really* tight. I don't think it would work on Orc or Dunmer, would have to probably stick to Rending Slashes as the spammable.

HappyLittleTree

How about Argonian?

LiquidPony

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

How about Argonian?

I don't permit my slaves to carry weapons.

Nolic1

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

How about Argonian?

There about 1k to 2k less in damage to the other races along with most of the magicka races. They are close though do to there potion passive but the lack of extra stam is small in this build set up.

zaria

Nolic1 wrote: »

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

How about Argonian?

There about 1k to 2k less in damage to the other races along with most of the magicka races. They are close though do to there potion passive but the lack of extra stam is small in this build set up.

Its an good idea to have an no racials as an baseline in parses, it makes it easier to compare different parses.
it should also be pinned to show how how races really matter.

And very good work, shows how sustain matter with no support.

LiquidPony

zaria wrote: »

Nolic1 wrote: »

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

How about Argonian?

There about 1k to 2k less in damage to the other races along with most of the magicka races. They are close though do to there potion passive but the lack of extra stam is small in this build set up.

Its an good idea to have an no racials as an baseline in parses, it makes it easier to compare different parses.
it should also be pinned to show how how races really matter.

And very good work, shows how sustain matter with no support.

Yes, and on that note, really the Orc/Khajiit/Dunmer parses should be compared to each other and the Redguard/Bosmer parses should be compared to each other since the rotations were almost identical.

In a totally solo setup, particularly on a build with atrocious sustain like a stamsorc, it's hard to compare sustain races to pure damage races without significantly altering the basic setup.

My guess is that orbs + blue food for the sustain races and orbs + gold food for the damage races would more or less equalize things with Orcs having a small advantage due to their +1,000 max health.

Honestly I'm not that concerned with the differences at this point and don't plan on jumping on any race changes right away. Will probably wait to see how real raid parses shake out over a much larger sample size.

validifyedneb18_ESO

But I heard redguard and Khajiit where both *** now.

People on the forum said so, so it must be true.

zaria

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

But I heard redguard and Khajiit where both *** now.

People on the forum said so, so it must be true.

Khajiit have some sustain as in 1/3 of bosmer, this manages to compete with Dunmer who has no sustain then its no sustain given. Give sustain and Dunmer and Orc pull ahead.

validifyedneb18_ESO

zaria wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

But I heard redguard and Khajiit where both *** now.

People on the forum said so, so it must be true.

Khajiit have some sustain as in 1/3 of bosmer, this manages to compete with Dunmer who has no sustain then its no sustain given. Give sustain and Dunmer and Orc pull ahead.

Ah true -.<

Funny how the Stamina community is arguing that the classes without sustain are way better, and the Magica community is arguing (or misunderstanding) that races with sustain but lower potential DPS are too good.

Elwendryll

LiquidPony wrote: »

I plan to repeat the parses with Veiled Heritance replacing Advancing Yokeda later this week.

Are there news about that?

LiquidPony

Elwendryll wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I plan to repeat the parses with Veiled Heritance replacing Advancing Yokeda later this week.

Are there news about that?

Unlikely that I'm going to get to it any time soon ... have been testing something else (Kra'gh + 1 Sharp weapon + The Shadow + more points in Piercing) rather than Veiled Heritance.

I've parsed with it I just haven't had the time to do a dozen+ parses on each race and clean and track it all (which takes like 4+ hours to get done).

On a smaller sample of parses on just a couple of races (just substituting VH for AY and moving 5 points from Precise Strikes to Master-at-Arms):

Dark Elf: 43.32k
Khajiit: 43.18k

Not definitive by any means but at least solo there does not appear to be a significant difference between AY and VH. Obviously that difference will grow marginally with Major Force (but of course Minor Brutality will also have a larger effect on VH).

Parrot1986

With redguard being able to sustain Rapid Strikes, any chance VMA weapons become a stronger option and drop velidreth?

LiquidPony

Parrot1986 wrote: »

With redguard being able to sustain Rapid Strikes, any chance VMA weapons become a stronger option and drop velidreth?

@Parrot1986



The problem is that stamsorcs don't have any unique single-target DoTs (aside from Greater Storm Atronach, which is really hard to buff with Cruel Flurry because it takes forever to start doing damage after you cast it). I'm using the DW ultimate here because it's easy to buff with Cruel Flurry and it benefits from the Redguard cost reduction passive. Now, if Maelstrom weapons had their old max-stat bonuses back (+189 weapon damage or something like that) it would be a lot better.

Maelstrom DW isn't *bad* on a stamsorc but it's not as good as AY + Velidreth. Might be worth trying with Deadly Strike instead of Leviathan, though. It's also worth keeping in mind that the meta *may* shift from The Lover + Velidreth to The Shadow + Kra'gh + 1 Sharpened weapon ... meaning that if you can't run a monster set, you'll have to make up that penetration elsewhere.

Now on a stamDK, it could be that it's totally viable, since you can also empower Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath. I haven't done much stamDK testing since the first PTS patch dropped, though. I don't really play stamDK on live.

LiquidPony

That's with Deadly Strike, Perfect Rele, Maelstrom DW.

LiquidPony

Same setup as the prior comment but swapping to The Shadow, 1 x Sharpened offhand, and moving some CP to Piercing (note that pen is ~1k lower but DPS is still increased).

JobooAGS

LiquidPony wrote: »

Same setup as the prior comment but swapping to The Shadow, 1 x Sharpened offhand, and moving some CP to Piercing (note that pen is ~1k lower but DPS is still increased).

Interesting set up

Elwendryll

LiquidPony wrote: »

Dark Elf: 43.32k
Khajiit: 43.18k

Not definitive by any means but at least solo there does not appear to be a significant difference between AY and VH. Obviously that difference will grow marginally with Major Force (but of course Minor Brutality will also have a larger effect on VH).

Thanks, I was mainly looking for Khajiit results. I already have Veiled Heritance and I did not plan on farming AY daggers ^^'

Vapirko

Wait what’s this? Orc isn’t absotutely BiS no questions asked super duper mega OP plz nerf to heck?

Edziu

@LiquidPony
I have an 1 request if you could as I cant and dont have much time

if you could ahve done same test but in jsut different gear
lets take it with an average non meta setup - VO with hunding witch is mostly used by non-meta and at all is close (most average in stats etc) to most of non-meta build and easiest to get

LiquidPony

Edziu wrote: »

@LiquidPony
I have an 1 request if you could as I cant and dont have much time

if you could ahve done same test but in jsut different gear
lets take it with an average non meta setup - VO with hunding witch is mostly used by non-meta and at all is close (most average in stats etc) to most of non-meta build and easiest to get

Sorry, won't have time for that. The test above took 6+ hours to complete ... close to 100 parses at 2+ minutes each plus rebuilding ulti, race changing, making pots, re-speccing for the different tests, etc., and then putting the post together.

The results shouldn't change drastically with other gear, anyway. I mean the total DPS number will obviously change but the % difference between races is going to be pretty similar.

sneakymitchell

So it’s the same pretty much.
Only 1k difference from another race with different spammable skill to use.

Parrot1986

LiquidPony wrote: »

Same setup as the prior comment but swapping to The Shadow, 1 x Sharpened offhand, and moving some CP to Piercing (note that pen is ~1k lower but DPS is still increased).

@LiquidPony just seeing this, thanks for the results and follow ups. Looks promising forVMA then, depending on what scales better with raid buffs etc.

Just to check after seeing the character name but you mentioned redguard in the reply, were you redguard with this set up?

LiquidPony

Parrot1986 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Same setup as the prior comment but swapping to The Shadow, 1 x Sharpened offhand, and moving some CP to Piercing (note that pen is ~1k lower but DPS is still increased).

@LiquidPony just seeing this, thanks for the results and follow ups. Looks promising forVMA then, depending on what scales better with raid buffs etc.

Just to check after seeing the character name but you mentioned redguard in the reply, were you redguard with this set up?

@Parrot1986 yeah this is Redguard. You can see the race icon in the upper left corner of the CMX parse.

Matt68

What rotation are you using for the vMA weapon parses ?