Looking Forward To vMA Weapon Rework

Vapirko

It’s pretty exciting that ZOS knows old arena weapons need to be looked at. Maybe this year even? What could they do to them at this point and would simply adding back the extra wpn damage etc be enough? vMA bow is really the only BiS weapon left. The 2H is almost obsolete even if it were to be buffed simply because crit charge isn’t useful anymore and there’s not really bar space for it on most builds. I’d love to see DW become useful for PvP or PvE once more, as I acquired those right before they were no longer worth running.

idk

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

SaintSubwayy

Vapirko wrote: »

It’s pretty exciting that ZOS knows old arena weapons need to be looked at. Maybe this year even? What could they do to them at this point and would simply adding back the extra wpn damage etc be enough? vMA bow is really the only BiS weapon left. The 2H is almost obsolete even if it were to be buffed simply because crit charge isn’t useful anymore and there’s not really bar space for it on most builds. I’d love to see DW become useful for PvP or PvE once more, as I acquired those right before they were no longer worth running.

Dont forget vMA Destros, they are also BIS on magicka build, as Bows as BIS on stamina Builds.

Well, I mainly see them reworking / nerfing vDSA DW, those overperform way to hard in PVP atm and definetly need to be adjusted.

vMA DW woul dbe nice to see a comeback, a small buff to the 2pcs boni from 2k WD and SD up to somwhere around 2,3k WD and SD would be a nice change...
Furthermore all arenaweapons could need the perfect / imperfect treatement aswell.
Giving the Perfect weapons the 1 pcs bonus back would be very welcome.
Maybe tune the 1pcs down, to match other normal setbonis....they gave 189 SD on staff for example, while a 129 SD bonus would be enough.

HappyLittleTree

I just think they'll add the 2nd effect back maybe a bit toned down to not make them too OP

Vapirko

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

It’s pretty exciting that ZOS knows old arena weapons need to be looked at. Maybe this year even? What could they do to them at this point and would simply adding back the extra wpn damage etc be enough? vMA bow is really the only BiS weapon left. The 2H is almost obsolete even if it were to be buffed simply because crit charge isn’t useful anymore and there’s not really bar space for it on most builds. I’d love to see DW become useful for PvP or PvE once more, as I acquired those right before they were no longer worth running.

Dont forget vMA Destros, they are also BIS on magicka build, as Bows as BIS on stamina Builds.

Well, I mainly see them reworking / nerfing vDSA DW, those overperform way to hard in PVP atm and definetly need to be adjusted.

vMA DW woul dbe nice to see a comeback, a small buff to the 2pcs boni from 2k WD and SD up to somwhere around 2,3k WD and SD would be a nice change...
Furthermore all arenaweapons could need the perfect / imperfect treatement aswell.
Giving the Perfect weapons the 1 pcs bonus back would be very welcome.
Maybe tune the 1pcs down, to match other normal setbonis....they gave 189 SD on staff for example, while a 129 SD bonus would be enough.

I’m not sure about the perfect/imperfect thing. Doesn’t seem to be very popular. It would be tough to make vMA harder rn as it’s already on vet and adding weapons to the normal version would be like handing out weapons for free. A HM version might be damn near impossible. I think the difficult of vMA is good taking into account new players as well as old (I know some people can farm it), and just making more of the weapons worthwhile again would be good. I’d love to have a reason to run vMA again.

Beardimus

idk wrote: »

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

Disagree with anything for normal. It's way too easy and doesn't give people the motivation to grow
DO agree with a perfect version, HM, Flawless no sigil.
DO miss the 1 pc bonuses so weopons had other uses

Vapirko

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

I just think they'll add the 2nd effect back maybe a bit toned down to not make them too OP

The 2pc effect wouldn’t make them OP, it might not even make them useful at this point. The ones that are still good (bow/some staves) would be better and the ones that aren’t any good would still be not good. It’s more how they function than the loss of a bit of wpn damage.

Vapirko

Beardimus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

Disagree with anything for normal. It's way too easy and doesn't give people the motivation to grow
DO agree with a perfect version, HM, Flawless no sigil.
DO miss the 1 pc bonuses so weopons had other uses

Damn man that’s a high bar, no sigil no death. Brutal! I know some people can do it, would certainly make it exclusive lol.

SaintSubwayy

Vapirko wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

Disagree with anything for normal. It's way too easy and doesn't give people the motivation to grow
DO agree with a perfect version, HM, Flawless no sigil.
DO miss the 1 pc bonuses so weopons had other uses

Damn man that’s a high bar, no sigil no death. Brutal! I know some people can do it, would certainly make it exclusive lol.

sounds a little bit to high
I can already imagine the average clearing players QQing about it

maybe a no Sigil run, or no death for a perfected weapon woul dbe more fair in my eyes, if you get both together you get 2 weapons for one run.
rewarding players for not daying or not using sigils, and even better reward for using neither of them.

avg players would prob try to go for no sigil runs, since its a bt easier than nodeath (IMO) and if they can get both, then they deserve the double loot.

not sure about weekly then tho .... perfect or im perfect loot?
if they would like to stay true to other ability altering weapons weeklys, then the weekly reward would have to drop perfected ones.
Which would prob end up with the good ppl getting 3-4 chars of the same class in, on which they can get 600k+ scores, and therefore they block out other players from weekly, other players who might have died twice and were a bit slower would maybe completly miss out on the weekly, if vMA weapons would get a perfected version)

GrumpyDuckling

I don't think we need harder versions of VMA to grant "perfected" weapons. The percentage of Xbox players who have completed VMA is only 0.31% as of today (2/14/19). (You can see the percentage by looking at the "Maelstrom Arena Conqueror" achievement which asks players to "Conquer all challengers in Veteran Maelstrom Arena").

If ZOS just makes the current versions of VMA weapons "perfected," then only 0.31% of players who have played ESO (on Xbox) will have a "perfected" version.

CultOfMMO

idk wrote: »

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

Would be better if the current ones are imperfect requiring any vet clear and perfect versions require 30 min no death no sigil run. Maybe 35 min

Danksta

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I don't think we need harder versions of VMA to grant "perfected" weapons. The percentage of Xbox players who have completed VMA is only 0.31% as of today (2/14/19). (You can see the percentage by looking at the "Maelstrom Arena Conqueror" achievement which asks players to "Conquer all challengers in Veteran Maelstrom Arena").

If ZOS just makes the current versions of VMA weapons "perfected," then only 0.31% of players who have played ESO (on Xbox) will have a "perfected" version.

Also probably about 10% that have completed the main story quest line...

SaintSubwayy

CultOfMMO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

Would be better if the current ones are imperfect requiring any vet clear and perfect versions require 30 min no death no sigil run. Maybe 35 min

most ridoncoulus sugesstion yet, tyvm for that one

vMA alone is not cleared by a big % of the playerbase, No sigil even a smaller % and nodeath even smaller...now also adding a time limit to the requirement for "perfect" vMA weapons would reduce the % of the playerbase who can clear it into oblivion...

just because you can clear it, and some of your friends can clear it, doesnt mean that all of the endgame raiders could meet all those requirements.
Just go and check leaderboards on your server since murkmire, and you prob can count on one hand how many scores have more than 600k.

Onefrkncrzypope

Too bad they just can't be enchants. Cruel flurry enchant etc.... So you can run two sets and maestrom augmented skills. Ohh combining the "maelstrom" enchants with like master weapons... That would be neat.

CultOfMMO

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

Would be better if the current ones are imperfect requiring any vet clear and perfect versions require 30 min no death no sigil run. Maybe 35 min

most ridoncoulus sugesstion yet, tyvm for that one

vMA alone is not cleared by a big % of the playerbase, No sigil even a smaller % and nodeath even smaller...now also adding a time limit to the requirement for "perfect" vMA weapons would reduce the % of the playerbase who can clear it into oblivion...

just because you can clear it, and some of your friends can clear it, doesnt mean that all of the endgame raiders could meet all those requirements.
Just go and check leaderboards on your server since murkmire, and you prob can count on one hand how many scores have more than 600k.

where does it say vma weaps should be available to the masses? you can do 50k solo 6mil without any vma weapon if you know what you're doing. And if you have no clue what you're doing, being handed a vma weap for free would not make any difference either. What good is the passive if you're constantly missing light attacks or canceling the bow ticks with early barswap? The reality is, the ppl who really seriously care about endgame content will find ways to push vma, the ppl who dont really care and just want the reward for the sake of it may or may not get it, but it doesn't matter cuz they dont need it and wouldnt know how to use it even if they get it.

Like it or not, vma is only meant to be done by 1% of eso population, and imo adding a more powerful version of the weapon for harder clear conditions is the only way to up that participation rate and keep the 3 year old content alive.

if they made vma weaps available in normal mode for a week, all you're gona get for months to come is hundreds of forum posts saying the enchants must be bugged cuz their dps barely went up. Then ppl will probably be even more convinced that high dps is only achievable with cheat engines, or whatever *** *** forums warriors cook up nowadays

kathandira

I'd be content with Normal giving out the weapons. For those who can clear vMA, they will see Normal as a snooze fest. But I can tell you from anecdotal experience that I know plenty of people who struggle to complete Normal.

If I had to guess, the number of people who can complete Normal but cannot complete Vet, is much much higher than those who can complete Vet.

SaintSubwayy

CultOfMMO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

Would be better if the current ones are imperfect requiring any vet clear and perfect versions require 30 min no death no sigil run. Maybe 35 min

most ridoncoulus sugesstion yet, tyvm for that one

vMA alone is not cleared by a big % of the playerbase, No sigil even a smaller % and nodeath even smaller...now also adding a time limit to the requirement for "perfect" vMA weapons would reduce the % of the playerbase who can clear it into oblivion...

just because you can clear it, and some of your friends can clear it, doesnt mean that all of the endgame raiders could meet all those requirements.
Just go and check leaderboards on your server since murkmire, and you prob can count on one hand how many scores have more than 600k.

where does it say vma weaps should be available to the masses? you can do 50k solo 6mil without any vma weapon if you know what you're doing. And if you have no clue what you're doing, being handed a vma weap for free would not make any difference either. What good is the passive if you're constantly missing light attacks or canceling the bow ticks with early barswap? The reality is, the ppl who really seriously care about endgame content will find ways to push vma, the ppl who dont really care and just want the reward for the sake of it may or may not get it, but it doesn't matter cuz they dont need it and wouldnt know how to use it even if they get it.

Like it or not, vma is only meant to be done by 1% of eso population, and imo adding a more powerful version of the weapon for harder clear conditions is the only way to up that participation rate and keep the 3 year old content alive.

if they made vma weaps available in normal mode for a week, all you're gona get for months to come is hundreds of forum posts saying the enchants must be bugged cuz their dps barely went up. Then ppl will probably be even more convinced that high dps is only achievable with cheat engines, or whatever *** *** forums warriors cook up nowadays

Im also on the group that says that vma weapons wont increse your dps by magically 10k...

I also agree that vma weapons are reserved for a very smll %of the population
But you dont know how big this % is right now, do you?
Last number ive seen was that on xbox 0.18% of player have vma cleared
Xbox has smaller pop than pc but I assume that vMA is cleared by a very max of 1,5% of pc players

Tying in so many more factors to a new perfected weapon would instantly end up in vma nerf threads here in the forums, because ppl want them but they are out of reach...also the regrind would prob also pizz off the real endgamers, jeah we could do it but do we want to regrind?
I definetly dont wana grind it again, even tho I could meet all the requirements you suggest

firedrgn

I think the vma weapons should be able to transmute them to a specific set of arrmor.

Crixus8000

I just hope I don't get nerfed with this

When they said they would look into old arena weapons I instantly got worried.

SaintSubwayy

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I just hope I don't get nerfed with this

When they said they would look into old arena weapons I instantly got worried.

Well I assume that vDSA DW will finally get adressed, and not just ...we removed 150dmg from this set (because we couldnt find a good way to rework it)

The set need to be adressed ASAP...been to op in pvp for far to long

idk

Beardimus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

Disagree with anything for normal. It's way too easy and doesn't give people the motivation to grow
DO agree with a perfect version, HM, Flawless no sigil.
DO miss the 1 pc bonuses so weopons had other uses

I think it is inevitable given how Zos has handled the weapons since vAS. If they provide a perfect weapon for doing it on a higher level challenge there is no reason to object to a normal one given on normal difficulty. It would be the lesser weapon and hence a lesser challenge needed.

BTW, I really do not think Zos will go as far as requiring a no death run for a perfect. They would add a HM difficulty before going that far.

Brrrofski

Well if they do I hope they do it retrospectively and not get me to farm all the stuff again. They took it away from me without me farming new versions so I want the new versions of what I already have.

I already don't have a bow or resto after over 80 runs. Flame staff took me over 50. Really don't want to face that BS RNG again.

SaintSubwayy

idk wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

Disagree with anything for normal. It's way too easy and doesn't give people the motivation to grow
DO agree with a perfect version, HM, Flawless no sigil.
DO miss the 1 pc bonuses so weopons had other uses

I think it is inevitable given how Zos has handled the weapons since vAS. If they provide a perfect weapon for doing it on a higher level challenge there is no reason to object to a normal one given on normal difficulty. It would be the lesser weapon and hence a lesser challenge needed.

BTW, I really do not think Zos will go as far as requiring a no death run for a perfect. They would add a HM difficulty before going that far.

vMA HM, soo you cant nuke the boss in 1min, but you rather need 1min 30sec

gepe87

More harder content and only 5% of players pop will get them.

casparian

I would hope to see a rework that addressed the most basic fact about Arena weapons: many of them aren't very good. I would rank the existing weapons like this (assuming Perfected versions of Blackrose and Asylum weapons):

S Tier
These items aren't just good, they're non-optional.
-vMA Bow
-vMA Destruction Staff

A Tier
- Master's Dual Wield (very strong -- to my mind just about balanced in CP PVP, but OP in no-CP -- this may be an issue that needs to be fixed by adjusting how wonky no-CP damage is, not adjusting the item itself)
- Blackrose Restoration Staff (very strong for builds with a lot of HOTs and/or light armor builds that need to improve their healing)
- Asylum Destruction Staff (hard to fit into endgame PVE builds, but this is only because the vMA staff is even stronger. Still a very, very strong weapon.)
- Master's Destruction Staff (very strong on certain specs. The sustain is quite nice and the little bit of extra burst can make all the difference.)
- Blackrose DW. Makes a single skill grant three powerful Major buffs while doing damage. Extremely strong on Forward Momentum builds.
- Master's Bow. Very big damage boost from a backbar weapon.

B Tier
- vMA S&B. Somewhat niche, but very strong sustain on builds that need it.
- Asylum Bow. Also niche, but strong for one specific application. Crutches on how wonky Snipe is. Probably needs a rework after Snipe is reworked.
- vMA Restoration Staff. Very strong sustain; a few patches ago was by far the best backbar magicka weapon for PVP, but has been eclipsed by Blackrose at this point.
- Asylum 2H. One of the best ult gen tools in the game, though after the 2H weapons change it is difficult for that to compete with the option of an entire 5pc or an Agility weapon. If this had a stat boost like Blackrose weapons, it would be A tier.
- Master's 2H. Also niche, but can be very strong on the right setups. I've seen some clips with this weapon that can only be described as Cleave bombs.

C Tier
- Asylum S&B. Strong if you're using Defensive Stance (rare), need dual resource sustain, and don't have the option of a better back bar set (also somewhat rare).
- vMA 2H. RIP once great companion. The damage isn't enough to justify slotting this over something else.
- Blackrose 2H. I love the idea -- turning a single-target skill into an AOE -- but it just isn't strong enough to make that idea work out in practice.
- Blackrose Destruction Staff. Pretty good DOT actually, but generally just not good enough to compete with other options.
- Asylum Bow. Decent damage, but not enough to compete with other options (especially given the strength of the other two arena bows).
- vMA DW. Once king in the days unlimited sustain, now overshadowed by superior options and afflicted by bugs.
- Master's S&B. The heal and buff are too small to be preferable to virtually any other option.
- Master's Resto. Once a staple of endgame healer builds, now hardly used.

D Tier
- Asylum Restoration Staff. ZOS can't seem to figure out what healers want.
- Blackrose S&B. The set's design itself even recognizes that Shield Charge isn't a very desirable skill.
- Asylum DW. Kind of neat I guess, if you're chaining Steel Tornado kills and also want to keep up a single-target DOT and a defensive buff. No reason to run it over Master's DW or a damage set, though.

Heimpai

Aslong as it’s not vDSA do what you want but lets not go making pvp weapons even harder to get for pvpers..

IonicKai

@CultOfMMO if it's such a small gain for most people to have the current version then why not let them. There is no reason to gate basic access to the buff behind such hard content when as you said not everyone will be able to utilize it well.

vMA doesn't really have a hard mode but honestly for most it is tough enough so I think it would be plenty fair to say normal drops the current versions and vet drops the perfected. Keep in mind that in trials you also have 11 other people to rely on and while it definitely takes solid teams to beat hm vAS and vCR + x it's possible to be helped through it and there are groups that even accept gold for this service.

NyassaV

idk wrote: »

Make a perfect version that may require clearing the content at a higher difficulty level or achieve an objective during the clear to obtain. The current versions would be available for all other clears including normal difficulty.

I do not think they will change the weapons we already have and this would allow them to let most everyone get a vMA or Master weapon and still have prized weapons for those willing to put in the work to clear the most challenging content, at even a higher challenge.

One suggestion I have seen before was a no sigil clear of vMA to get perfect weapons. That is not a big jump of course. I have also seen a comment that was attributed to a class rep that Zos was considering a higher tier difficulty for the new weapons. So those are not my ideas.

As someone who has flawless conq... No

Taleof2Cities

casparian wrote: »

I would hope to see a rework that addressed the most basic fact about Arena weapons: many of them aren't very good. I would rank the existing weapons like this (assuming Perfected versions of Blackrose and Asylum weapons):

vMA S&B didn't even make the "D Tier".

lol

Yeah, I hope the developers are reading this thread ... it needs a serious buff.

Crixus8000

I love vma snb. it's probably going to get nerfed and I will have to redo my build lol. Just one patch without something of mine getting nerfed would be great

Vapirko

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I love vma snb. it's probably going to get nerfed and I will have to redo my build lol. Just one patch without something of mine getting nerfed would be great

I sincerely doubt they'll be nerving vMA SB. I don't think a rework of the vMA weapons will see them nerfed as they are all under performing, some by a vast amount, aside from bow and destro staves, although idk what builds people are running that still use vMA destros.