How about a reduction in the monthly cost of ESO subscriptions?

Zathras

LightMaster7 wrote: »

For example I would like to just pay for the Craft bag. I really can't justify paying $15/mo for a craft bag, don't need the other "perks". I say make it $5/mo for craft bag only!

$15 a month pays for:

• these forums and it's staff
• developers to make the game
• interns to fetch coffee and lunch
• servers
• Utilities
• Marketing
• and a thousand other things.

That said, people who make these multi-million dollar MMOs also know that $15 a month doesn't adequately cover costs, especially when you get into the salaries of game developers and management. That is why there is subsidiary income from various Cash Shops.

A reduction to a $5 price point would translate into ESO becoming F2P, with an aggressive Cash Shop that included items that aren't just cosmetic. Look at BDO, and Archeage. Granted, if that happened, your wish would come true and you could buy the Craft Bag directly from the Store. But, you'd be playing an entirely different game as the focus of development would radically shift.

What the discussion should be on, is why the subscription price point hasn't meaningfully budged in 20 years.

Derunik

Zathras wrote: »

That said, people who make these multi-million dollar MMOs also know that $15 a month doesn't adequately cover costs, especially when you get into the salaries of game developers and management. That is why there is subsidiary income from various Cash Shops.

A reduction to a $5 price point would translate into ESO becoming F2P, with an aggressive Cash Shop that included items that aren't just cosmetic. Look at BDO, and Archeage. Granted, if that happened, your wish would come true and you could buy the Craft Bag directly from the Store. But, you'd be playing an entirely different game as the focus of development would radically shift.

What the discussion should be on, is why the subscription price point hasn't meaningfully budged in 20 years.

Excuse me, this game already has an aggressive cash shop. You can buy 3 dumb horses with gold, all others are behind pay walls (Indrik is the one exception). There's already way too much in the cash shop that not only hurts the current players but also scares off potential players. They should just force the sub and delete the entirety of the cash shop, put all mounts behind achievements and events, all motifs in the game in loot/achievements so we finally have an MMO that isn't hunting for whales. Not even mentioning all the consumeables and furniture they conveniently didn't put in loot tables.

max_only

You want us to have unskippable ads at every load screen? Because that’s how you get unskippable ads.

Cpt_Teemo

Maybe they can have an alternative 5$ a month for craft bag only but minus everything else including the 1500 crowns a month

rumple9

Zos would make a lot more money if they made the game free to play and include the craft bag etc and followed the Fortnite model.

Even Apex Legends has picked up 2 million players in one week following the Fortnite model

RobDaCool

Yeah, this would be cool cause my wife told me $15/month was a bit too much to pay even though she has WoW, Final Fantasy 14 and Dragon Quest X all of which are $15/month lol

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Derunik wrote: »

Zathras wrote: »

That said, people who make these multi-million dollar MMOs also know that $15 a month doesn't adequately cover costs, especially when you get into the salaries of game developers and management. That is why there is subsidiary income from various Cash Shops.

A reduction to a $5 price point would translate into ESO becoming F2P, with an aggressive Cash Shop that included items that aren't just cosmetic. Look at BDO, and Archeage. Granted, if that happened, your wish would come true and you could buy the Craft Bag directly from the Store. But, you'd be playing an entirely different game as the focus of development would radically shift.

What the discussion should be on, is why the subscription price point hasn't meaningfully budged in 20 years.

Excuse me, this game already has an aggressive cash shop. You can buy 3 dumb horses with gold, all others are behind pay walls (Indrik is the one exception). There's already way too much in the cash shop that not only hurts the current players but also scares off potential players. They should just force the sub and delete the entirety of the cash shop, put all mounts behind achievements and events, all motifs in the game in loot/achievements so we finally have an MMO that isn't hunting for whales. Not even mentioning all the consumeables and furniture they conveniently didn't put in loot tables.

Dumb horses? I'm insulted.

Seriously though, seeing as the mounts all perform the same, then these fancy mounts are just cosmetic. Personally I think that's the right way to go about it.

That free horse you get at level ten is exactly the same as the mounts people spend thousands on crates for, other than looks.

So not really something I feel can be complained about, TBH.

Mintaka5

Yes, this. I always thought this game should have more options as far as having a tiered subscription. Honestly, though, we should all have lowered subscription rates just on the fact alone, that this game is lacking in quality.

Inoki

Currently the price of a monthly sub in my currency (EUR) is 13. It would be super cool if it got rounded up to 10. That I would consider just perfect.

At the same time I do understand, that running a show like this one costs money. A lot of money. Think about the salary of one artist who (deserves it and) does those amazing graphics that we admire. Multiply that by....... I honestly don't dare to give a number, but I'm thinking a few dozen, and that's the art department only. Now think of the developers, management, marketing and so on and so forth.

Still want the game to be super cheap? Sure, be super rich and back development so everyone can have it nearly for free!

Ashryn

I don't consider $15 a month to be excessive, especially for all the entertainment that this game gives me every month. I'd sooner put my money into ESO then a movie ticket or cable TV subscriptions...and I believe in supporting the company a bit so new content can be developed.

fierackas

Hamish999 wrote: »

At the price of 2 or 3 pints a month (£6.73 to £8.99 per month depending on subscription) it is already fantastically cheap and great value for money for the benefits you get, Crowns, craft bag, bank space, furnishing space, DLC access etc

2 or 3 pints? Not everyone lives in the back of beyond

wnights

Nah, I payed for those sweet 1600 crowns, the craft bags is just a few dollars addition ^.^ honestly though, I don't think it would be too bad since there are plenty of people who subscribe for other perks as well (dying costumes, crowns, bank space) It could be something like ESO lite that doesnt allow you to use any ESO+ exclusive deals in the store and only gives the bag

Wildberryjack

They have a free play mode and you're complaining about the sub fee? Then play free? I'm sorry but, what? Really? This reeks of extreme entitlement. 'Oh I know I can PLAY FREE but I want all the perks and don't want to pay that much so you should charge less'. LOL. Wow man. I don't even know what else to say.

Emma_Overload

Zathras wrote: »

LightMaster7 wrote: »

For example I would like to just pay for the Craft bag. I really can't justify paying $15/mo for a craft bag, don't need the other "perks". I say make it $5/mo for craft bag only!

$15 a month pays for:

• these forums and it's staff
• developers to make the game
• interns to fetch coffee and lunch
• servers
• Utilities
• Marketing
• and a thousand other things.

That said, people who make these multi-million dollar MMOs also know that $15 a month doesn't adequately cover costs, especially when you get into the salaries of game developers and management. That is why there is subsidiary income from various Cash Shops.

A reduction to a $5 price point would translate into ESO becoming F2P, with an aggressive Cash Shop that included items that aren't just cosmetic. Look at BDO, and Archeage. Granted, if that happened, your wish would come true and you could buy the Craft Bag directly from the Store. But, you'd be playing an entirely different game as the focus of development would radically shift.

What the discussion should be on, is why the subscription price point hasn't meaningfully budged in 20 years.

Your argument is wrong. You have no idea what ZOS internal finances are or what the $15 sub does or doesn't pay for. For all you know, DLC purchasers are providing 95% of ZOS revenue.

The only thing I agree with is that ZOS shouldn't charge $5/month just for the bag - that's a dumb idea and just screws DLC purchasers all over again. What they SHOULD do is make the crafting bag available to purchase in the Crown Store for a fixed price, just like everything else.

Guys like you seem to forget that there was a period of time BEFORE the crafting bag was released when players were TRICKED into purchasing DLC with the understanding that we would be buying the FULL game. ZOS RENEGED on the deal when they introduced the crafting bag. Why do you think they stopped calling the game "Tamriel Unlimited" after that? Because it wasn't unlimited anymore, that's why!

JKorr

rumple9 wrote: »

Zos would make a lot more money if they made the game free to play and include the craft bag etc and followed the Fortnite model.

Even Apex Legends has picked up 2 million players in one week following the Fortnite model

Wonder how many players would drop the game if they made it free to play? I would. Even after being subbed from early access, having one subbed account, a second one not always subbed, 15 characters on the subbed always account, 6 on the subbed not always account, all riding skills maxed, all bank space maxed, all inventory space maxed, mounts I like bought from the crown store....I'd drop the game immediately if it went free to play. The crown store atm is cosmetic only; I seriously doubt they would keep it that way if the game went free to play...

Out of curiosity, I googled Fortnite and microtransactions.... https://thelootgaming.com/fortnite-microtransactions-are-a-total-rip-off-designed-to-take-advantage-of-consumers-while-offering-little-value/

Every couple of months in Fortnite, a new season starts. That season brings a Battle Pass which you can purchase for 950 V-Bucks, around £8/$10. Within this you unlock loads of items, from 1500 more V-Bucks to multiple skins and emotes. You get way over 100 rewards if you complete the pass and it really is unbelievable value for money. Considering the title is free to play, Epic have done a great job of making this hook worth the player investment. Outside of the Battle Pass you have the Store. Every day the items for sale change and every two days the featured items rotate. What’s on offer ranges from skins to pickaxes to gliders and more.

This is where Fortnite moves into shady territory. As you can see everything is color coded. The order from rare to common is: Orange, Purple, Blue, Green and Grey. This rarity impacts the value of the item. As the image shows the Legendary orange skin Magnus is available for 2000 V-Bucks. The cheapest way to get that amount with real life money? £16. Even completing the whole Battle Pass wouldn’t unlock that amount. Therefore, to buy one skin from the store, you’d be £16 out of pocket. Throw in the Forebear pickaxe to complete the set and you’re out £20 provided you buy the V-Bucks pack that gives you a bonus 300. So that’s one skin. What if you were a collector and wanted them all? There are:

Orange: 22 skins = 44,000 V-Bucks
Purple: 41 skins = 61,500 V-Bucks
Blue: 38 skins = 45,600 V-Bucks
Green: 24 skins = 19,200 V-Bucks

The total? 170,300 V-Bucks. How much is that in real money? £1003.

In order to own every single skin, not including pickaxes, parachutes, emotes and backpacks you need to go into four figures. Now, of course this isn’t how the majority of players think. It’s a tiny minority that’ll go that far. But consider who plays Fortnite… A lot of children/young adults. These consumers always want more. They are easily convinced to purchase. The Fortnite pricing model is of terrible value to players. Let’s compare it to another free to play title: Warframe. To buy an extra character in this game; which is actually unlockable through gameplay and opens up new gameplay options, costs $12 without any bulk currency discounts. Cheaper than a cosmetic Fortnite skin. If I wanted to buy the Morrowind DLC in Elder Scrolls Online using in game currency what would it set me back? £19.78 or about $25. For a huge expansion adding a full new area.

LightMaster7

Wildberryjack wrote: »

They have a free play mode and you're complaining about the sub fee? Then play free? I'm sorry but, what? Really? This reeks of extreme entitlement. 'Oh I know I can PLAY FREE but I want all the perks and don't want to pay that much so you should charge less'. LOL. Wow man. I don't even know what else to say.

WHAT are you on about? I've paid for the main game and all the DLCs I've purchased out of pocket. This game isn't "free".

Not sure what this "free to play model" for ESO is but I don't think it exists?

max_only

LightMaster7 wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

They have a free play mode and you're complaining about the sub fee? Then play free? I'm sorry but, what? Really? This reeks of extreme entitlement. 'Oh I know I can PLAY FREE but I want all the perks and don't want to pay that much so you should charge less'. LOL. Wow man. I don't even know what else to say.

WHAT are you on about? I've paid for the main game and all the DLCs I've purchased out of pocket. This game isn't "free".

Not sure what this "free to play model" for ESO is but I don't think it exists?

You have to pay $15 a month to log into WoW after lvl 10. It’s free to log in here.

mateosalvaje

I don't think it costs too much, and I'm poor. Sometimes I can't afford it and have to go a few weeks without, but that's not the fault of ESO Plus. They also haven't increased the price even though they upped the crowns and keep adding more perks. I kind of think of it as a donation to keep a game I love going so I can continue playing new content. It's absolutely worth two hours out of my paycheck each month 😇

LightMaster7

max_only wrote: »

LightMaster7 wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

They have a free play mode and you're complaining about the sub fee? Then play free? I'm sorry but, what? Really? This reeks of extreme entitlement. 'Oh I know I can PLAY FREE but I want all the perks and don't want to pay that much so you should charge less'. LOL. Wow man. I don't even know what else to say.

WHAT are you on about? I've paid for the main game and all the DLCs I've purchased out of pocket. This game isn't "free".

Not sure what this "free to play model" for ESO is but I don't think it exists?

You have to pay $15 a month to log into WoW after lvl 10. It’s free to log in here.

Dude you know you have to PAY for the game initially right? It's not FREE.

max_only

LightMaster7 wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

LightMaster7 wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

They have a free play mode and you're complaining about the sub fee? Then play free? I'm sorry but, what? Really? This reeks of extreme entitlement. 'Oh I know I can PLAY FREE but I want all the perks and don't want to pay that much so you should charge less'. LOL. Wow man. I don't even know what else to say.

WHAT are you on about? I've paid for the main game and all the DLCs I've purchased out of pocket. This game isn't "free".

Not sure what this "free to play model" for ESO is but I don't think it exists?

You have to pay $15 a month to log into WoW after lvl 10. It’s free to log in here.

Dude you know you have to PAY for the game initially right? It's not FREE.

Pay 20$ once, log in and get to max cp, raid, pvp, housing, every feature available for free. Especially now with crown gifting/trading. There are plenty of people who manage inventory without the craft bag. They have empty guilds, maximu, alts with maximum space, use addons etc.

You know what actually, yes there should be a free model, you all can watch unskippable ads at every load screen, even the random ones that happen in combat. Columbine up ahead? Load screen ad. Psijic portal? Load screen ad. New zone ina dungeon? Load screen ad. Guild event killing world bosses? Load screen ad every single time you port. Load screen ad to log in, load screen ad to log out. People already pay to skip ads in other forms of entertainment, why not.

If you think that a corporation will replace a money making model for one that benefits YOU more than them, you’ve got another ad coming.

Cpt_Teemo

LightMaster7 wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

They have a free play mode and you're complaining about the sub fee? Then play free? I'm sorry but, what? Really? This reeks of extreme entitlement. 'Oh I know I can PLAY FREE but I want all the perks and don't want to pay that much so you should charge less'. LOL. Wow man. I don't even know what else to say.

WHAT are you on about? I've paid for the main game and all the DLCs I've purchased out of pocket. This game isn't "free".

Not sure what this "free to play model" for ESO is but I don't think it exists?

Well you can win free game codes from Twitch streamers every now and then or from Instagram

Nestor

All these threads with their convuluted reasons as to why the Craft Bag should be Free or Cheap just reinforces ZOS's decision to tie it to a Subscription.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

I like the ESO+, but I could do without the dungeons being added

Jayne_Doe

A sub for just the crafting bag is a nice idea, but based on comments in other threads, I imagine there are a lot of players who would shift to that cheaper sub. Now, they would presumably get new subs at that $5 price point, but we don't know if that would be enough to make up the difference in what they get now at $15/month.

What we do know, based on the multitude of comments in so many of these same threads is that a lot of players would unsub if the bag became free to all players. That would hurt their revenue stream. And, putting it in the store for a fixed price won't be enough to make up for that loss either. It would have to be at least 5,000 crowns (which players would complain about, no doubt), and even then, one-time sales of a crafting bag wouldn't make up for the loss of consistent revenue they get from subs. Well, perhaps it could, but only ZOS knows that.

They really shot themselves in the foot on this one. It should have been base-game from the beginning, but pulling it out now will cost them subs.

And, I don't agree that just buying the DLC was supposed to be on par with ESO+. Yes, they are two ways to enjoy the game, but they were never supposed to be equal. From the beginning, the sub gave access to all DLC, 1500 crowns, and special member perks - at the time, just a 10% increase to various things, but still, from the beginning, the model was set that ESO+ would offer special perks to those that subbed. Those without the sub still get all the game content that ESO+ members do, but they don't have the perks that go along with a sub. Also, even if that was not their intention in the beginning, they certainly are within their right (it's in the TOS, after all) to change the subscription model at any time. Just because it may have been that way in the beginning (two "completely equal" options to play the game), doesn't mean ZOS can't change anything at any time about their game or its benefits, cost, etc.

Plus, I'm fairly certain (though, no I don't know this for a fact) that ZOS has added these perks to boost subs. It's entirely possible that the sub model really didn't do well until the crafting bag was introduced.

Acrolas

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Guys like you seem to forget that there was a period of time BEFORE the crafting bag was released when players were TRICKED into purchasing DLC with the understanding that we would be buying the FULL game. ZOS RENEGED on the deal when they introduced the crafting bag. Why do you think they stopped calling the game "Tamriel Unlimited" after that? Because it wasn't unlimited anymore, that's why!

It's not that anyone forgot. It's that there's no supporting evidence for what you've said.

YOUR GUIDE TO ESO PLUS™ PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP (January 21, 2015)
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/25031

"Access to all of ESO’s downloadable content (or DLC) game packs for the duration of your membership"

So from slightly before Update 6 until Update 10 (Dark Brotherhood) when the Craft Bag was introduced, it was still common knowledge that the ESO+ sub included DLC. No tricks or misinformation. Update 7's Imperial City was the first DLC, so that knowledge that the subscription included DLC access preceded any actual DLC by about seven months.

"Tamriel Unlimited" wasn't technically dropped from the game until Update 14, the Morrowind Chapter. But for branding purposes.

Emma_Overload

Acrolas wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Guys like you seem to forget that there was a period of time BEFORE the crafting bag was released when players were TRICKED into purchasing DLC with the understanding that we would be buying the FULL game. ZOS RENEGED on the deal when they introduced the crafting bag. Why do you think they stopped calling the game "Tamriel Unlimited" after that? Because it wasn't unlimited anymore, that's why!

It's not that anyone forgot. It's that there's no supporting evidence for what you've said.

YOUR GUIDE TO ESO PLUS™ PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP (January 21, 2015)
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/25031

"Access to all of ESO’s downloadable content (or DLC) game packs for the duration of your membership"

So from slightly before Update 6 until Update 10 (Dark Brotherhood) when the Craft Bag was introduced, it was still common knowledge that the ESO+ sub included DLC. No tricks or misinformation. Update 7's Imperial City was the first DLC, so that knowledge that the subscription included DLC access preceded any actual DLC by about seven months.

"Tamriel Unlimited" wasn't technically dropped from the game until Update 14, the Morrowind Chapter. But for branding purposes.

You're avoiding mentioning the fact that the crafting bag is part of the game, but it is not accessible as a DLC.

Emma_Overload

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

A sub for just the crafting bag is a nice idea, but based on comments in other threads, I imagine there are a lot of players who would shift to that cheaper sub. Now, they would presumably get new subs at that $5 price point, but we don't know if that would be enough to make up the difference in what they get now at $15/month.

What we do know, based on the multitude of comments in so many of these same threads is that a lot of players would unsub if the bag became free to all players. That would hurt their revenue stream. And, putting it in the store for a fixed price won't be enough to make up for that loss either. It would have to be at least 5,000 crowns (which players would complain about, no doubt), and even then, one-time sales of a crafting bag wouldn't make up for the loss of consistent revenue they get from subs. Well, perhaps it could, but only ZOS knows that.

They really shot themselves in the foot on this one. It should have been base-game from the beginning, but pulling it out now will cost them subs.

And, I don't agree that just buying the DLC was supposed to be on par with ESO+. Yes, they are two ways to enjoy the game, but they were never supposed to be equal. From the beginning, the sub gave access to all DLC, 1500 crowns, and special member perks - at the time, just a 10% increase to various things, but still, from the beginning, the model was set that ESO+ would offer special perks to those that subbed. Those without the sub still get all the game content that ESO+ members do, but they don't have the perks that go along with a sub. Also, even if that was not their intention in the beginning, they certainly are within their right (it's in the TOS, after all) to change the subscription model at any time. Just because it may have been that way in the beginning (two "completely equal" options to play the game), doesn't mean ZOS can't change anything at any time about their game or its benefits, cost, etc.

Plus, I'm fairly certain (though, no I don't know this for a fact) that ZOS has added these perks to boost subs. It's entirely possible that the sub model really didn't do well until the crafting bag was introduced.

In 2014, EVERYONE subbed. What went wrong? ZOS made the game B2P, even though players BEGGED them to keep the game sub only. That was their decision. Why should players be punished for ZOS' dumb decision?

If ZOS wanted subs, they should have kept the whole game subscription only. Instead what they did was introduce the DLC model and then cheated players by trying to force them later to pay a sub on top of the DLC... making us pay for the same stuff TWICE just to access the whole game!

Acrolas

Emma_Overload wrote: »

You're avoiding mentioning the fact that the crafting bag is part of the game, but it is not accessible as a DLC.

The Craft Bag has never been advertised as a DLC Game Pack.
We use DLC as shorthand, but that's the full name. Individual features, whether part of the subscription or part of quarterly Updates, are not Game Packs.

Emma_Overload

Acrolas wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

You're avoiding mentioning the fact that the crafting bag is part of the game, but it is not accessible as a DLC.

The Craft Bag has never been advertised as a DLC Game Pack.
We use DLC as shorthand, but that's the full name. Individual features, whether part of the subscription or part of quarterly Updates, are not Game Packs.

It should be an item in the Crown Store like a horse or a hat. That's still "DLC" in the sense the term is commonly understood in the game industry.

notimetocare

I remember when games made you sub to play, I miss it. Had less beggars begging