Vivec Cantons are SO much smaller than TES 3 versions.

GLP323b14_ESO

Well, since I was forced to visit Vivec city before I wanted to (stupid Indrik mount), I got to see what it looked like in comparrison to TES3.

My initial impression of Vvardenfell was that it's quite a bit smaller than the original (e.g Seeing Vivec City from Seyda Neen. What!). These have been confirmed by seeing Vivec City and the Cantons. They are quite a bit smaller than they are in TES 3.

I'd hoped that ESO would increase the size of things (given that the landscape has always been significantly compressed after the vastness of TES 1 and 2), but instead they are smaller. That's a shame.

While the upgraded graphics of Vivec City are great, the size is definitely a let down.

asuitandtyb14_ESO

ESO Vvardenfell fails to meet the standard of Morrowind by a fair margin, and in nearly every category, with the exception of graphics.

WrathOfInnos

When were you planning on visiting Vivec city? And why the delay? It’s been out nearly 2 years.

GLP323b14_ESO

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

When were you planning on visiting Vivec city? And why the delay? It’s been out nearly 2 years.

Despite the age of my account, I only recently bought an ESO subscription and started playing regularly.

Dojohoda

True story- I spent a lot of time in the TES 3 Cantons because I couldn't find the way out for a while. Sometimes when I found a door to the outside, I would jump into the water to escape.

mairwen85

ESO: 2E 582 (Vivec in ESO is still under construction -- see in game conversations and visual aspects like scaffolding and construction site)

TES3: 3E 427

Many years between.

Civilisations expand, existing structures are rebuilt, renovated, extended.

Rome wasn't built in a day

Well, neither was Vivec.

zaria

How much larger, some having TES 3 installed could take some screenshots. Think interior was much larger as it was buildings inside, on the other hand movement speed was slower

mairwen85

zaria wrote: »

How much larger, some having TES 3 installed could take some screenshots. Think interior was much larger as it was buildings inside, on the other hand movement speed was slower

Here

Not just bigger, more of them -- which makes sense after ~700 years.


edit to add

For context:

map of London circa 1300 (700 years ago)

E7216

mairwen85 wrote: »

ESO: 2E 582 (Vivec in ESO is still under construction -- see in game conversations and visual aspects like scaffolding and construction site)

TES3: 3E 427

Many years between.

Civilisations expand, existing structures are rebuilt, renovated, extended.

Rome wasn't built in a day

Well, neither was Vivec.

All provinces that have their counterparts in singleplayer games (Morrowind, Skyrim) are of course much smaller, so are the towns in the provinces.

All towns and villages which are there in the future wouldn't have room to exist on the maps in ESO, but as they don't have to, who cares?

[Edited to remove baiting]

Androconium

Yes but most of the doors are locked. Unlike the 3rd era.
Near enough is good enough.

The current event has 2x materials harvesting in Vvardenfell.
However,

• There are half the number of nodes as most original zones.
• The event attracts 10x the number of players.
• You get more mats harvesting one of the (now empty) other zones.

starkerealm

GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »

My initial impression of Vvardenfell was that it's quite a bit smaller than the original (e.g Seeing Vivec City from Seyda Neen. What!).

Oddly enough, not that much.

There were two things about TES3: The slow movement speed, and the short draw distance. Those two made the zone feel far larger than it actually was.

Using a modern injector to add things like LoD data, quickly reveals some shocking things about the original map, including how downright small it was. And, yes, on a clear day, standing in Seyda Neen, you could see down to Vivec. Not when you played the game in 2003, but today using mods to render at longer distances? Yes.

Red_Feather

Well it's super old vivec and shows they are still building the foundations.

mairwen85

E7216 wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

ESO: 2E 582 (Vivec in ESO is still under construction -- see in game conversations and visual aspects like scaffolding and construction site)

TES3: 3E 427

Many years between.

Civilisations expand, existing structures are rebuilt, renovated, extended.

Rome wasn't built in a day

Well, neither was Vivec.

BS, all provinces that have their counterparts in singleplayer games (Morrowind, Skyrim) are of course much smaller, so are the towns in the provinces.

All towns and villages which are there in the future wouldn't have room to exist on the maps in ESO, but as they don't have to, who cares?

Your point?

OP specifically mentions Vivec City. In game reasons for his/her observations exist. I was providing those.

E7216

mairwen85 wrote: »

E7216 wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

ESO: 2E 582 (Vivec in ESO is still under construction -- see in game conversations and visual aspects like scaffolding and construction site)

TES3: 3E 427

Many years between.

Civilisations expand, existing structures are rebuilt, renovated, extended.

Rome wasn't built in a day

Well, neither was Vivec.

BS, all provinces that have their counterparts in singleplayer games (Morrowind, Skyrim) are of course much smaller, so are the towns in the provinces.

All towns and villages which are there in the future wouldn't have room to exist on the maps in ESO, but as they don't have to, who cares?

Your point?

OP specifically mentions Vivec City. In game reasons for his/her observations exist. I was providing those.

I don't think OP wanted lore reasons as answers, he would have posted it in the lore category of the forums if otherwise.

But let him clarify his topic.

Ladislao

Androconium wrote: »

• There are half the number of nodes as most original zones.

Wut? Maybe you mean the density (the same number of nodes but larger size of location) of the resource nodes?

mairwen85

E7216 wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

E7216 wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

ESO: 2E 582 (Vivec in ESO is still under construction -- see in game conversations and visual aspects like scaffolding and construction site)

TES3: 3E 427

Many years between.

Civilisations expand, existing structures are rebuilt, renovated, extended.

Rome wasn't built in a day

Well, neither was Vivec.

BS, all provinces that have their counterparts in singleplayer games (Morrowind, Skyrim) are of course much smaller, so are the towns in the provinces.

All towns and villages which are there in the future wouldn't have room to exist on the maps in ESO, but as they don't have to, who cares?

Your point?

OP specifically mentions Vivec City. In game reasons for his/her observations exist. I was providing those.

I don't think OP wanted lore reasons as answers, he would have posted it in the lore category of the forums if otherwise.

But let him clarify his topic.

My post is a perfectly valid response to the observation that the city of Vivec in ESO is smaller than the same city in TES3. I really don't understand why it annoys you, or why you feel the need to state it as BS (especially when other posters in this thread mention the same).

There are other posts that cover technical reasons for this difference. OP also did not explicitly request those answers. They are equally valid replies. However not under your scrutiny (?).

Again, I don't see what point you are trying to make, if any at all.

Pendrillion

What really made me laugh when I went back to TES III... Have you noted that the Palace and the High Fane are actually the smallest Structures of the City, while in ESO Morrowind they are the most noteable? I bet that is a commentary how the Temples influence wanes compared to the Houses and the Empire.

Danikat

In a way I'm glad Vivec City is smaller, I always get lost in there in TES III. But it is disappointing that the whole of Vvardenfell is smaller than in the previous game. Like the OP said being able to see Vivec City from Seyda Neen ruins some of the effect of arriving there for the first time, it feels like a short trip around the coast rather than trekking across the wilderness. Same with going pretty much anywhere else on the island.

What's odd is they seem to have done the opposite with Cyrodiil.

6point6b16_ESO

all the issues in the game, and this is your concern?

Ekzorka

I didn't play TES 3 while my childhood or teenage, I had looked at it in 2015 and for only 30-35 hours, but that's it what I can say about old Vvardenfell and new:
1) In TES 3 your travel process is slow, very slow, and it was made it for the sense of scale. Some objects were really bigger, but the nature feels empty. In TESO the nature abounds in details, and your travel speed is quite high.
2) View distance quality in TES 3 is very low, even compared to the next TES 4, you walk like in mist. TESO have higher view distance quality, you can see Red Mountain from anywhere on the island and Baar Dau in the sky from all over the south coast.
3) Don't forget about technical moments. I'm sure that TES 3 had more time for developing than Morrowind chapter in TESO. But, in other hand, Online have more voiced lines.

Jameliel

It's not even really like a TES game. Same names and such, but beyond that it's just a watered down generic mmo. The best thing its got going for it is how many different things there are to do. Lots and lots of content, its just that its all homogenized and design/performance is pretty bad.

Varana

As others have remarked - seeing Vivec City from Seyda Neen, and seeing Red Mountain from Vivec, is actually how it's supposed to be, if we're staying close to TES3. Use a modern graphics extender, and you'll realise that Vivec is perfectly visible from Seyda Neen, once you removed the artificial fog.

In the case of Red Mountain, that's much more true to how Vvardenfell was envisioned - with the Fire Mountain of Certain Doom dominating the island from every corner. You even should be able to see the mountain from Solstheim, like we did in Skyrim:DB. That you could only see Red Mountain once you stood right on front of it, was a technical limitation.

Sure, the Vivec cantons are smaller than in TES3. There's a lot of dead space in the Morrowind cantons, and they would be even more painful to navigate, so I'm not overly concerned that they shrunk them. (I had quite a few people who went to Vvardenfell for the event and were quite lost trying to find the NPCs for the dailies.)

TES cities are never in their actual size, anyway. In TES3, there are c. 30 apartments in the whole city of Vivec, plus services, and that's not a city. As such, what we have in the game, is a representation, like a symbol. If it gives an impression of a city and fits the needs of the game, it's okay.

OTOH, I really like how they decorated the cantons, esp. on the inside. In Morrowind, all you had was the same brownish concrete, with some variation for the dome. That's a lot better in ESO (again, thanks to technical progress).

ProfessorKittyhawk

Someone else mentioned it but bears mentioning it again: the city is under construction. Being built. Heck, a few quests have you going to the construction sites for things. So of course things won't be exactly like TES3: Morrowind. It's set hundreds of years before that game.

starkerealm

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Someone else mentioned it but bears mentioning it again: the city is under construction. Being built. Heck, a few quests have you going to the construction sites for things. So of course things won't be exactly like TES3: Morrowind. It's set hundreds of years before that game.

Roughly eight hundred years, to be slightly more specific.

ghastley

My recollection of Morrowind as TES III was that I spent all my game time walking to the next place. You couldn't run, because that cost stamina, and you couldn't ride anything but a silt strider. Scaling things down for ESO corrects that mistake.

Chilly-McFreeze

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Someone else mentioned it but bears mentioning it again: the city is under construction. Being built. Heck, a few quests have you going to the construction sites for things. So of course things won't be exactly like TES3: Morrowind. It's set hundreds of years before that game.

Right, but the cantons are already close to each other. So expanding them in size would mean relocating or deconstructing the cantons as well. How else would you get enough space otherwise?

ArchMikem

mairwen85 wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

How much larger, some having TES 3 installed could take some screenshots. Think interior was much larger as it was buildings inside, on the other hand movement speed was slower

Here

Not just bigger, more of them -- which makes sense after ~700 years.

Found this.



So it seems there's only a difference of three more structures. And actually the far left and far right ones are already under construction in the ESO version of the city, which just leaves the far north one left to be planned.

nine9six

Everything is definitely smaller.

Slow travel?

Boots of Blinding Speed + Cuirass of Saviors Hide + Levitate.

myskyrim26

TES3 Morrowind is a game, not a DLC. So Vvardenfell is really big. I love it. ESO Morrowind is just a chapter - alas. So Vvardenfell is small.

mairwen85

ArchMikem wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

How much larger, some having TES 3 installed could take some screenshots. Think interior was much larger as it was buildings inside, on the other hand movement speed was slower

Here

Not just bigger, more of them -- which makes sense after ~700 years.

Found this.



So it seems there's only a difference of three more structures. And actually the far left and far right ones are already under construction in the ESO version of the city, which just leaves the far north one left to be planned.

Here's the TESO version


Smaller cantons, and fewer. Especially the plateaus the cantons sit on seem to have a smaller surface area -- looks like renovation and growth over the course of 700-800 years. Alternatively, larger polygons and meshes in older games would also require more space for collision detection than current tech...

Odnoc

Well, TES3 does take place nearly 1,000 years after ESO...