Is Twice Born Back?

EpicRekkoning

I'm on console and can't test anything, but with the race changes and changes to shadow, is twice born a thing again?

If so, the nice thing is white jewelry will allow you to have two mundus stone (no need to gold out). Could be some nice $$ for those of us that learned all 9 traits.

There's been a lot of good feedback and comments here, which got me thinking about crafting in general. I started another thread in the crafting category. I'm curious what this group thinks of the idea. It would be a change in crafting structure, but could make for some interesting and fun game play.

Thanks for the positive feedback.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458144/would-this-work/p1?new=1

Emma_Overload

Sadly, no. But it's still a useful set for PvP sometimes.

I don't think TBS will come back for PvE unless they buff Thief.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

No.

EpicRekkoning

I should clarify that I'm not asking if it's BIS, but close to top tier? It might help new players out or others that can't get into trials.

EpicRekkoning

Cool, thanks to both of you for your replies.

LiquidPony

No.

Think about it like this: your second Mundus has to be stronger than the 3, 4, and 5-piece bonuses of some other meta set *combined*. There was a synergy of many things that made TBS so strong back when it was meta: The Thief was much stronger than it is now (as was The Shadow, but that's just been buffed), Major Force was a 30% bonus *multiplied* on top of your existing crit modifiers so crit was even more powerful than it is today, and we didn't have super strong sets like Relequen/Siroria/Spell Strat/Advancing Yokeda (and even Leviathan/Mother's Sorrow were weaker than they are now).

Take a simple case: TBS with Thief/Shadow + Spell Strategist versus Mother's Sorrow with Shadow + Spell Strategist.

TBS and Mother's Sorrow both have a max magicka bonus, so cancel them out. At that point you're comparing The Thief (~2340 Spell Crit) to the 3/4/5-piece bonuses of Mother's Sorrow (3590 Spell Crit).

SaintSubwayy

No and here's why.

The 2-4 pcs stats on TBS are to weak for PVE.

(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You can have two Mundus Stone boons at the same time.

Health is nice, but not needed
Builds mainly profit from one of the 3 or 4pcs item bonus, since DMG scales with your max resource, one boni is "wasted" in terms of DMG output. Ofc its nice to have additional 1k stam to block, dodge etc. on magicka builds, but its not needed.

Now lets add 2 Stamina Sets into the Comparisson here...Advancing Yokeda (aka. berserking Warrior, and TFS)

Advancing Yokeda:
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, your Critical Strike rating is increased by 400 for 5 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.

This set grants up to 3666 Crit = 16.7% Crit
While the Thief grants up to 10.68% Crit with 7 Divines
So this set on its own is already stronger than the Thief Mundus stone, making the choice for TBS would not make sense.
AY (16,7% Crit) + Mundus X
TBS (Thief 10.68%) + Mundus X


Twice Fanged Serpent
(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you deal damage, your Physical Penetration is increased by 860 for 3 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.

TFS gives up to 4,3k Penetration
The Lover grants up to 4196 Penetration with 7 Divines
On this Comparison, the Lover is in terms of Penetration weaker than TFS.
TFS 4,3k Pen + Mundus Y
TBS (Lover 4196 Pen ) + Mundus Y
Pen-wise It would be wiser to take TFS here, additionally the WD+Crit are stronger than 1,2k Health and 1k Magicka from TBS.

Ergo:

AY can be frontbarred, and provides more critrating than Thief does...so why run TBS, which needs to be double barred, as does Relequen, and sacrifice a Monsterset, for worse stats than with AY, relequena and a Monsterset

TFS is the same story as for AY; but not as drasticly as AY does. (thats also why AY is better than TFS atm, it provides a bigger Plus than TFS does)


IF TBS should become Viable again, then it needs some love either towards its 2-4pcs Bonis, or to the 5pcs Bonus.

2 Suggestions form my side:

Buffing 2-4 PCS Bonis
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Spelldamage
Adds 129 Weapondamage
(5 items) You can have two Mundus Stone boons at the same time.



Buffing 5 PCS Bonus
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You can have two Mundus Stone boons at the same time.
Increases the Potency of Mundusstones by XX % (additional to Divines)

Elwendryll

I'm not good with parses. But I did 32k with TBS. Lover+Shadow, and VO front bar.
I have around 32-34k dps on live. So... It's viable, I guess. Depends what you want to do. I'll test further once the CP are fixed. For stamina it should be better than on magicka, because of the lover stone being nearly the same as TFS full bonus, with a 100% uptime.

aaisoaho

Shortly, TBS is not a top set.

A bit longer explanation:
(list is a bit unfinished, please forgive me)
When comparing other sets to TBS, you need to subtract the things that stays the same. For my comparisons, I presumed both setups have shadow - therefore we do not need to compare them. So, what needs to be compared: an extra mundus vs 5-piece bonus and in some cases look at the 2-4 piece bonuses.

Pen
Lover 4196
TFS 4300
Spriggan 3450

Def
Lady 4196
Fortified Brass 5170

HP
Lord 3402
Plague Doctor 4000

Stam
Tower 3092
Draugr Hulk 2540 (+3x 1096, which 1 is negated by TBS bonus)

Crit
Thief 10.68% (equals to: 219*10.68 = 2339)
Berserking 2000
Leviathan 1924 (but other bonuses makes this 3590)
(and same for mag side)

Wep dmg
Warrior 363
HR 299

Spell dmg
Apprentice 363
Julianos 299

Speed&HP rec
Steed 363 (&10% speed)
Beekeeper 400 H. Rec

In the weapon/spell damage cases, you need to evaluate if 1666 crit is better than the little extra spell/weapon damage and stats you get from TBS.

TBS is a solid starting set tho. Like if you need more physical penetration, but are not yet up to doing normal sanctum ophidia to get TFS, you only lose 104 penetration and trade 129 Weapon Damage and 833 Weapon Critical for 1k health and magicka.

PS. If somebody wants to fill the rest of the cases, please do. (missing comparisons for the mundus stones: Serpent, Atronach, Ritual, Mage)

SaintSubwayy

Elwendryll wrote: »

I'm not good with parses. But I did 32k with TBS. Lover+Shadow, and VO front bar.
I have around 32-34k dps on live. So... It's viable, I guess. Depends what you want to do. I'll test further once the CP are fixed. For stamina it should be better than on magicka, because of the lover stone being nearly the same as TFS full bonus, with a 100% uptime.

Viable is a very specific term ^^

Purely Mathematicly TBS is NOT worth it on any setup atm, since there's always a better option at hand, due to sets beeing stronger then mundusstones, and TBS not providing enough of a plus in their 2-4 pcs bonis

Elwendryll

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

I'm not good with parses. But I did 32k with TBS. Lover+Shadow, and VO front bar.
I have around 32-34k dps on live. So... It's viable, I guess. Depends what you want to do. I'll test further once the CP are fixed. For stamina it should be better than on magicka, because of the lover stone being nearly the same as TFS full bonus, with a 100% uptime.

Viable is a very specific term ^^

Purely Mathematicly TBS is NOT worth it on any setup atm, since there's always a better option at hand, due to sets beeing stronger then mundusstones, and TBS not providing enough of a plus in their 2-4 pcs bonis

The point of TBS is the flexibility. And with the CP scaling, it might be better than some sets if you take max resources stone? Maybe? Does not being the best make it not viable? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you could still manage to hit 40k+ dps with hit and clear pretty much any content.

I don't think that "not the best" = "not worth it", as I don't do any leaderboard content. But otherwise, yes, it's not the best.

SaintSubwayy

Elwendryll wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

I'm not good with parses. But I did 32k with TBS. Lover+Shadow, and VO front bar.
I have around 32-34k dps on live. So... It's viable, I guess. Depends what you want to do. I'll test further once the CP are fixed. For stamina it should be better than on magicka, because of the lover stone being nearly the same as TFS full bonus, with a 100% uptime.

Viable is a very specific term ^^

Purely Mathematicly TBS is NOT worth it on any setup atm, since there's always a better option at hand, due to sets beeing stronger then mundusstones, and TBS not providing enough of a plus in their 2-4 pcs bonis

The point of TBS is the flexibility. And with the CP scaling, it might be better than some sets if you take max resources stone? Maybe? Does not being the best make it not viable? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you could still manage to hit 40k+ dps with hit and clear pretty much any content.

I don't think that "not the best" = "not worth it", as I don't do any leaderboard content. But otherwise, yes, it's not the best.

I guess this lies in the eyes of the viewer...

Lets assume I can hit 45k with TBS, Relequen and Veli on a 3mio Dummy.

Now I take TBS out, and TFS in

I hit 46k with TFS, Relequen and Veli on the same 3 mio dummy

Would you use TBS, if you have TFS already in your bank?
Prob not, i wouldnt either.

Yes the set could be good "enough" for certain builds or players, but the problem with it is, that there's always a "better" option, which does the Job better than the Mundusstone, and the stats form TBS do, so theoreticly it is jus tnot a good set, when compared to others
on its own it sounds decent enough to use it, but since the value of mundusstones are "low" they directly lower the value of TBS.

For a starter the set might be great, also for Leveling it may be very solid (fixed Pen for example, while TFS on CP10 wont grant you 4,3k pen, but Lover will alway sgrant 4,2k then its strong, specially with low CP Penetration etc.)
Endgame wise its overperformed by nearly every other set that provides good stats over the whole set.

and here comes the Ironie...starters definetly cannot craft TBS, since its a 9 Trait set, nor do they have enough money to buy it from traders (prob very few pieces of TBS are sold, if any at all)
IF tehy're lucky they have a friend or guildmembers which will craft it for them.

ToRelax

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Sadly, no. But it's still a useful set for PvP sometimes.

I don't think TBS will come back for PvE unless they buff Thief.

It's atrociously bad for PvP because divines is not a good PvP trait.

SaintSubwayy

ToRelax wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Sadly, no. But it's still a useful set for PvP sometimes.

I don't think TBS will come back for PvE unless they buff Thief.

It's atrociously bad for PvP because divines is not a good PvP trait.

jeah, but same goes for impen and well fitted tbh...

thats okey IMO, certain traits have strengths in PVE but not in PVP

Elwendryll

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

I'm not good with parses. But I did 32k with TBS. Lover+Shadow, and VO front bar.
I have around 32-34k dps on live. So... It's viable, I guess. Depends what you want to do. I'll test further once the CP are fixed. For stamina it should be better than on magicka, because of the lover stone being nearly the same as TFS full bonus, with a 100% uptime.

Viable is a very specific term ^^

Purely Mathematicly TBS is NOT worth it on any setup atm, since there's always a better option at hand, due to sets beeing stronger then mundusstones, and TBS not providing enough of a plus in their 2-4 pcs bonis

The point of TBS is the flexibility. And with the CP scaling, it might be better than some sets if you take max resources stone? Maybe? Does not being the best make it not viable? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you could still manage to hit 40k+ dps with hit and clear pretty much any content.

I don't think that "not the best" = "not worth it", as I don't do any leaderboard content. But otherwise, yes, it's not the best.

I guess this lies in the eyes of the viewer...

Lets assume I can hit 45k with TBS, Relequen and Veli on a 3mio Dummy.

Now I take TBS out, and TFS in

I hit 46k with TFS, Relequen and Veli on the same 3 mio dummy

Would you use TBS, if you have TFS already in your bank?
Prob not, i wouldnt either.

Well. You know, some people just really want to use some sets. Orgnum's scale, Armor Master and TBS were my motivation to research the traits. I idealized them over months. I just want them to be viable you know.
I already use Armor Master in a medium pvp build. And I used TBS with impregnable armor.

SaintSubwayy

Elwendryll wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

I'm not good with parses. But I did 32k with TBS. Lover+Shadow, and VO front bar.
I have around 32-34k dps on live. So... It's viable, I guess. Depends what you want to do. I'll test further once the CP are fixed. For stamina it should be better than on magicka, because of the lover stone being nearly the same as TFS full bonus, with a 100% uptime.

Viable is a very specific term ^^

Purely Mathematicly TBS is NOT worth it on any setup atm, since there's always a better option at hand, due to sets beeing stronger then mundusstones, and TBS not providing enough of a plus in their 2-4 pcs bonis

The point of TBS is the flexibility. And with the CP scaling, it might be better than some sets if you take max resources stone? Maybe? Does not being the best make it not viable? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you could still manage to hit 40k+ dps with hit and clear pretty much any content.

I don't think that "not the best" = "not worth it", as I don't do any leaderboard content. But otherwise, yes, it's not the best.

I guess this lies in the eyes of the viewer...

Lets assume I can hit 45k with TBS, Relequen and Veli on a 3mio Dummy.

Now I take TBS out, and TFS in

I hit 46k with TFS, Relequen and Veli on the same 3 mio dummy

Would you use TBS, if you have TFS already in your bank?
Prob not, i wouldnt either.

Well. You know, some people just really want to use some sets. Orgnum's scale, Armor Master and TBS were my motivation to research the traits. I idealized them over months. I just want them to be viable you know.
I already use Armor Master in a medium pvp build. And I used TBS with impregnable armor.

Oh id also love to see sets like TBS again, the idea behind this set is great, but certain aspects of it are to weak to make them usefull on the lvl I play the game.

I'd loe to see more sets be viable in top endgame content, but as long as there are other sets performing way better than they should perform, we wont use them. ...looking ar you relequen aka freedps provider

danno8

It's not.

And I hope it never is until they address the way the mundus stones are dropped when you switch out sets. So annoying to have to go get the stone again whenever you want to change gear.

Kolzki

I’d love to stam and magic versions of twice born star. A pair of sets with the twice born star 5 piece but having stam or magic damage setups on the 2-4 piece bonuses.

Two sets, Elsweyr coming, two moons, khajiit lore ... you know you want to zos.

susmitds

It might be back for specifically Khajiit, as they don't need more crit and can use Apprentice+Shadow to boost Crit damage to an all time high. BIS? No. Julianos almost does the same.

SaintSubwayy

susmitds wrote: »

It might be back for specifically Khajiit, as they don't need more crit and can use Apprentice+Shadow to boost Crit damage to an all time high. BIS? No. Julianos almost does the same.

Na even there its not good enough, same areason as in Stamina Builds...other sets to the job better than the 2nd mundus does.

MS > Thief
SS, Sirora > Apprentice
Pen, already covered by Light armor

You already use 1 SD set on ever magicka class: Siroria, SS or BSW / Julianos
and one other set, like MS, or MA, SS etc.

especially on magicka Khajit builds, MS will be the best option besides the SD set. and Combining MS with TBS might sound good, Siroria and SS will grant more flat stats than Apprentice will.

It may be even stronger to wear 2 1pcs critpieces instead of a monsterset, when you cant get into meele range for zaan...testing needs to be done about that.

as for now, theorycrafting for raid setups on magicka builds will end up with either:
(moving fights, SS and BSW > siroria)
Kahjit -> MS, Siroria, Zaan or skoria with shadow
Breton -> MS, Siroria, Zaan or skorai with Shadow or thief

jaws343

ToRelax wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Sadly, no. But it's still a useful set for PvP sometimes.

I don't think TBS will come back for PvE unless they buff Thief.

It's atrociously bad for PvP because divines is not a good PvP trait.

You don't have to run Divines on it in PVP. You still get that second mundus and the bonus off stats. On a a magblade, you could get away with running Divines, but it isn't necessary.

I will personally be using this on my crit build PVP mag blade, replacing julianos in the next patch. Mother's Sorrow, TBS, and Skoria. The added stamina and health will be nice, and being able to run Thief and Shadow will boost my damage more than Julianos currently does. And with the racial changes to Dunmer, I actually won't be losing any base damage for the build, since the julianos spell damage buff will be replaced by the Dunmer spell damage buff.

DPShiro

Ehl Oh Ehl

kojou

For end game DPS I agree with everything said. It is not as good as other options.

I do use it for leveling alts though. You can make white jewelry and training pieces of it, and some other set that has a "flat" 5 piece bonus (seducer, mechanical acuity, etc) and the 5 piece bonuses will not decrease as you level saving time and materials crafting new sets of armor.

SaintSubwayy

kojou wrote: »

For end game DPS I agree with everything said. It is not as good as other options.

I do use it for leveling alts though. You can make white jewelry and training pieces of it, and some other set that has a "flat" 5 piece bonus (seducer, mechanical acuity, etc) and the 5 piece bonuses will not decrease as you level saving time and materials crafting new sets of armor.

jeah the set bonis are tied to the lvles, while Mundusstones always provide the same ammount, makeing it a very strong set for lvling.

but for Endgame its not good, since mundusstones are "to weeak" compared to the stats another set could provide

John_Falstaff

To add to the pile of issues - I think that TBS isn't a good set for newbies not only because it's 9-trait, but because managing it is such a headache. Swap out a single piece for a moment - and the second mundus will be lost; slot back in - and you still have one mundus and have to go and retake the other one. It's a pain for someone who's just starting.

SaintSubwayy

John_Falstaff wrote: »

To add to the pile of issues - I think that TBS isn't a good set for newbies not only because it's 9-trait, but because managing it is such a headache. Swap out a single piece for a moment - and the second mundus will be lost; slot back in - and you still have one mundus and have to go and retake the other one. It's a pain for someone who's just starting.

well if you always wear 5 bodypieces, then its not a problem...but yes the mundus mess is real there

templesus

Lol no not even close.

josiahva

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

I'm not good with parses. But I did 32k with TBS. Lover+Shadow, and VO front bar.
I have around 32-34k dps on live. So... It's viable, I guess. Depends what you want to do. I'll test further once the CP are fixed. For stamina it should be better than on magicka, because of the lover stone being nearly the same as TFS full bonus, with a 100% uptime.

Viable is a very specific term ^^

Purely Mathematicly TBS is NOT worth it on any setup atm, since there's always a better option at hand, due to sets beeing stronger then mundusstones, and TBS not providing enough of a plus in their 2-4 pcs bonis

The point of TBS is the flexibility. And with the CP scaling, it might be better than some sets if you take max resources stone? Maybe? Does not being the best make it not viable? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you could still manage to hit 40k+ dps with hit and clear pretty much any content.

I don't think that "not the best" = "not worth it", as I don't do any leaderboard content. But otherwise, yes, it's not the best.

I guess this lies in the eyes of the viewer...

Lets assume I can hit 45k with TBS, Relequen and Veli on a 3mio Dummy.

Now I take TBS out, and TFS in

I hit 46k with TFS, Relequen and Veli on the same 3 mio dummy

Would you use TBS, if you have TFS already in your bank?
Prob not, i wouldnt either.

Yes the set could be good "enough" for certain builds or players, but the problem with it is, that there's always a "better" option, which does the Job better than the Mundusstone, and the stats form TBS do, so theoreticly it is jus tnot a good set, when compared to others
on its own it sounds decent enough to use it, but since the value of mundusstones are "low" they directly lower the value of TBS.

For a starter the set might be great, also for Leveling it may be very solid (fixed Pen for example, while TFS on CP10 wont grant you 4,3k pen, but Lover will alway sgrant 4,2k then its strong, specially with low CP Penetration etc.)
Endgame wise its overperformed by nearly every other set that provides good stats over the whole set.

and here comes the Ironie...starters definetly cannot craft TBS, since its a 9 Trait set, nor do they have enough money to buy it from traders (prob very few pieces of TBS are sold, if any at all)
IF tehy're lucky they have a friend or guildmembers which will craft it for them.

If it were that close, just 1K DPS...I would certainly consider TBS over TFS. Sure, you are doing 1k less DPS....but say you convince a whole trial group to do the same thing...lose 1k DPS and gain 1200 health. That allows the tank to drop Ebon and use a set like Dragonguard....reducing ult cost by 15%...pair it with bloodspawn and that means significantly more warhorns. It wouldnt even have to be Dragonguard...could be anything that helped increase group DPS...in the end, it would be a net gain for group DPS. Of course, it depends on what the real difference is in the end. The real test would be on the tank trying different damage boosting sets instead of Ebon

SaintSubwayy

josiahva wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

I'm not good with parses. But I did 32k with TBS. Lover+Shadow, and VO front bar.
I have around 32-34k dps on live. So... It's viable, I guess. Depends what you want to do. I'll test further once the CP are fixed. For stamina it should be better than on magicka, because of the lover stone being nearly the same as TFS full bonus, with a 100% uptime.

Viable is a very specific term ^^

Purely Mathematicly TBS is NOT worth it on any setup atm, since there's always a better option at hand, due to sets beeing stronger then mundusstones, and TBS not providing enough of a plus in their 2-4 pcs bonis

The point of TBS is the flexibility. And with the CP scaling, it might be better than some sets if you take max resources stone? Maybe? Does not being the best make it not viable? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you could still manage to hit 40k+ dps with hit and clear pretty much any content.

I don't think that "not the best" = "not worth it", as I don't do any leaderboard content. But otherwise, yes, it's not the best.

I guess this lies in the eyes of the viewer...

Lets assume I can hit 45k with TBS, Relequen and Veli on a 3mio Dummy.

Now I take TBS out, and TFS in

I hit 46k with TFS, Relequen and Veli on the same 3 mio dummy

Would you use TBS, if you have TFS already in your bank?
Prob not, i wouldnt either.

Yes the set could be good "enough" for certain builds or players, but the problem with it is, that there's always a "better" option, which does the Job better than the Mundusstone, and the stats form TBS do, so theoreticly it is jus tnot a good set, when compared to others
on its own it sounds decent enough to use it, but since the value of mundusstones are "low" they directly lower the value of TBS.

For a starter the set might be great, also for Leveling it may be very solid (fixed Pen for example, while TFS on CP10 wont grant you 4,3k pen, but Lover will alway sgrant 4,2k then its strong, specially with low CP Penetration etc.)
Endgame wise its overperformed by nearly every other set that provides good stats over the whole set.

and here comes the Ironie...starters definetly cannot craft TBS, since its a 9 Trait set, nor do they have enough money to buy it from traders (prob very few pieces of TBS are sold, if any at all)
IF tehy're lucky they have a friend or guildmembers which will craft it for them.

If it were that close, just 1K DPS...I would certainly consider TBS over TFS. Sure, you are doing 1k less DPS....but say you convince a whole trial group to do the same thing...lose 1k DPS and gain 1200 health. That allows the tank to drop Ebon and use a set like Dragonguard....reducing ult cost by 15%...pair it with bloodspawn and that means significantly more warhorns. It wouldnt even have to be Dragonguard...could be anything that helped increase group DPS...in the end, it would be a net gain for group DPS. Of course, it depends on what the real difference is in the end. The real test would be on the tank trying different damage boosting sets instead of Ebon

Tank dropping ebon sorry but this will never happen, unless its nerfed into oblivion....but thx for the laugh

Yes it depends on the number ofc, could also have made the example with a 5k difference...wouldnt matter
The 2,3and 4 pcs bonis on TBS are just weak when looking at them compared to effective combatstats like crit and wd.
Thats the main problem, and in combo with sets beeing way stronger than their mundus boon counterpart is why TBS is a weaker choice than the set providing the same 5pc effect (but stronger)

firedrgn

Tbs is a mental trick. Its a set were 5th bonus is one mundas stone. You gcan get way more out of most 5th bonuses than u can from one mundus stone.

It qn ok set while your grinding others to replace it.

SaintSubwayy

firedrgn wrote: »

Tbs is a mental trick. Its a set were 5th bonus is one mundas stone. You gcan get way more out of most 5th bonuses than u can from one mundus stone.

It qn ok set while your grinding others to replace it.

well it once was good on stamina DD's, when thief and shadow were stronger than sets ike AY; but due to jewelry crafting / retraiting , sets which before werent used, started to overpower the Stones

still great for lvling, end of story