StamSorc by far has the least usable passives and buffs/debuffs and needs to be looked at

BaylorCorvette

I'll start by saying I've played my StamSorc as my main (primarily PvP but also some PvE) for nearly two years now. StamSorc as it sits on live right now I feel is in a pretty good place overall in the games current meta, at least for PvP. It is far from the best Stam class, but is not nearly as under powered as a lot of people make the class out to be. I feel there just needs to be some slight tweaking and the class can be very close to on par with the top Stam classes. My two largest concerns are from the lack of applicable passives available to it along with lack of buffs/debuffs compared to other classes. When you combine these two categories StamSorc is severely lacking.

Lets look at all the Stam classes in ESO and compare what classes have passives that are and are not applicable to a STAMINA based characters. I'm primarily looking at this from PvP side of things in terms of what is "normal" to be slotted. However most of it is still applicable to PvE as well. Also the excuse of "Sorc isn't a Stam class" doesn't fly. All classes can be played as Stamina or Magicka. Plus in ESO lore there is a thing called a Battle Mage which is a perfect example of a StamSorc.

StamSorc: Dark Magic, Blood Magic is useless unless you're a negate StamSorc running the damage morph and Exploitation is only useful for group buffs. So 2 of the 4 passives here aren't really applicable. Daedric Summoning, Rebate & Expert Summoner is useless and Daedric Protection is almost useless since bar space is at a premium with the 3rd Overload bar being removed it is hard to justify Bound Armor or wasting an Ultimate slot on your bar for Atro can be hard to justify. However I will count it as an applicable passive.. (8/12 applicable, or 7/12 applicable if you don't have Bound Armor slotted)

StamDK: Every single DK passive can be applicable to a StamDK. (12/12 applicable)

StamBlade: Every passive in Assassination & Shadow is applicable to a Stamblade, and three of the four passives in Siphoning are up in the air depending whether or not a Stamblade is using Leeching Strikes/Siphoning Attacks or Power Extraction. (9/12 applicable but possibly 12/12 applicable)

Stamplar: Every passive in Aedric Spear is applicable to a Stamplar, In Dawn's Wrath, Enduring Rays and Illuminate aren't really applicable to a Stamplar, although Illuminate a group buff for your group members but for the sake of this I'll say it isn't applicable. In Restoring Light, all are applicable, but one could make the argument that Light Weaver really isn't applicable unless the Stamplar is running Remembrance back bar, so let's say it isn't applicable. (9/12 applicable but possibly 10/12 applicable)

Stamden: Animal Companions, Bound with nature is really the only non applicable passive in this line. Winters Embrace, Piercing Cold isn't that applicable to a Stamden however since Stamdens do use Permafrost a lot that 6% damage is a nice buff to that, so I'll call it applicable. Green Balance, since Stamdens run Soothing Spores a lot in PvP every passive here is applicable. (11/12 applicable passives).


Based on passives alone, StamSorc is clearly at the bottom, this wouldn't be such a large problem if they had a ton of Buffs/Debuffs in their tool kit. However this isn't the case and StamSorc has the least amount of Buffs/Debuffs in their tool kit. I think the best bang for the buck change for StamSorc is to make Bound Armaments apply a specific buff or debuff that is actually useful, possibly making your next light attack apply major fracture to the target OR when activated it gives Minor Brutality or possibly Minor Berserk. Not only would this give StamSorc access to another buff/debuff but it would also make justifying Bound Armaments to get the Daedric Protection passive worthwhile.

In terms of reworking the other class passives, I would be open to ideas but at this point any sort of useful passive would be welcomed.

Yes a class "spammable" would be nice. However I really don't think it would be necessary if the class passives and buffs/debuffs it had access to were tweaked.

Cres

Pretty much have to agree with everything @BaylorCorvette has said here. Buff/debuffs and passives are a big issue with stam sorc. I agree stam sorc isn't as terrible as people make it out to be, but there are plenty of improvements that could be had.

Stam frag or curse would be nice, I don't think a stam spammable is necessary but some other on demand stam damage skill is needed IMO

Sorc is a difficult class to balance due to 3 specs and only 2 morphs: NoPet, Pet and Stam...all 3 are valid setups. Other classes don't have this issue and this is ignoring tank/healer/DPS roles as well.

TBois

I agree, and I'm crossing my fingers, hoping that they don't give us an air atronach and call it a day.

BahometZ

Just frees up more skill points to put into crafting!

But yeah, stamsorc seems even more of an afterthought than any other stambuild. You might be forgiven for thinking ZOS only just recently introduced stam morphs, it's so undercooked.

Tannus15

The 2 changes I'd give stam sorc would be Air Atro & to change crystal blast into a stam version of Crystal Frags. literally works exactly the same way, just does physical damage.

If they gave stam frags major fracture i'd lose. my. ***.

Crixus8000

Well said. I would love to be able to have a few more usable passives and just one class ult that was actually worth it for stamsorc.

Morgul667

stamsorc need some love and i share your idea that the passive should be tweaked

Would be enough for me

Maybe somethinf to make it more mobile

I really sont feel the air atronach thing unless it is hurricane type of skill (player based)

LiquidPony

Morgul667 wrote: »

stamsorc need some love and i share your idea that the passive should be tweaked

Would be enough for me

Maybe somethinf to make it more mobile

I really sont feel the air atronach thing unless it is hurricane type of skill (player based)

The thing about the Air Atronach is that it would deal physical damage. Even with the same tooltip values as the Storm Atro it would be a DPS buff for stamsorcs just because of that (penetration, scaling with bonuses, etc.). But it's really a more PvE-oriented change.

I've always thought it'd be interesting to have the Crystal Blast morph work something like Flames of Oblivion. Make it a crystal that hovers around you and passively deals damage at some interval over some period of time after being cast. It would be a small DPS boost, fits with the kind of "passive damage" theme, and gives stamsorcs a way to proc Exploitation.

SodanTok

I always find funnier pointing out Sorcerer as class has 11 abilities that focus on damage and just one of them has physical morph.

BaylorCorvette

Morgul667 wrote: »

I really sont feel the air atronach thing unless it is hurricane type of skill (player based)

Agreed 100%. Air Atro will be useless (in PvP) if it worked the same way the Atro works right now. The big advantage StamSorc has is mobility and an Air Atro that is stationary would be very useless and counterproductive to that play style. Now if the Air Atro followed you like Eye of the Storm that might me useful. Another option is, like the Necromancer class that is coming where one ulti turns you into a Bone Colossus, maybe a StamSorc could turn into an Air Atro. However I feel like it would be more of a gimmick than anything.

Vapirko

Bound armaments definitely needs to change, they really *** that skill up and it should probably be a normal buff with a duration instead of having to slot on both bars or lose its effect on own bar and honestly it would be great if Stam sorcs didn’t have so few skills and such crappy passives that BA was necessary to slot even in its horrible state. I think no other class has fallen as far as stam sorcs. At one time they were one of the greatest classes in PvP and they are arguably now the worst.

templesus

Excuse me? Stamplar has 9/12 or 10/12?

Im all for buffing passives but don't overplay passives of other classes to further your own..that isnt how you gain support. Furthermore, it throws those classes under the bus by somebody who clearly doesn't play it.

For a STAMINA TEMPLAR only:

Aedric Spear uses all passives that's 4.

Dawns Wrath uses prism and restoring spirit that makes 6. (as for Illuminate buffing Magicka allies, if you include this you have to also include Exploitation for StamSorc as it buffs Magicka allies Crit by 6%)

Restoring Light uses Sacred ground. All the others either A: dont apply to stamplar or B: do something unrelated to stamina as a whole. Rez speed doesnt buff stamplar or even magplar at all, In no way shape or form will it increase your individual performance in PvP. The fact you listed that as an applicable passive is honestly baffling and to be honest discredits your entire argument severely. On top of this no good stamplar still runs remembrance, every single one runs Psijic Ult on backbar for the damage mitigation so the other 2 passives in this tree are negated as well (this was the same reasoning you used for not including Expert Summoner which would increase your HP by 8% with atro up, people dont slot it).

So that makes 7 passives. Which is in fact less then Stam Sorcs or equal if you don't include Daedric protection, so then it becomes a toss-up which truly has less passives that directly buff the user in PvP.

Like I said, I'm all for asking for buffs, but falsifying data is not the way to do it. Thats called a Texas Sharpshooter and is a logical fallacy. Dont throw other classes under the bus to further your own.

Neloth

First, I want to notice that I’m going to speak from purely PvP point of view.

I don’t think that a lack of useful passives is the main issue of StamSorc.

Just look at stamden - it also has many useless passives (let’s be honest, it’s bond with nature, piercing cold and some from green balance, which I can’t even name - since many wardens don’t run spores or permafrost in CP PvP. Passive snare reduction and resistances from winter skillline are meh.). However, it’s clearly in top 2 of stam classes, and is really fun to play. Why? Cause it has a lot of class-based ACTIVE skills, which are fun and efficient to use.

The burst from shalks, class spammable, unique class defensive mechanic (shimmering), 2 class based heals. 3 not-so-bad class ultimates (bear is more a PvE thing, yes). Notch giving you major sorcery/brutality. And weapon-based skills just supplement that toolkit, what allow you to chose almost any weapon combination. Like 2H? Sure, you can even front bar it, without relying on clunky dizzying swing. DW, S&S, bow, all can be efficient on stamden.

When I play the class, it really feels like magsorc - I’m using all my class toolkit, but also utilize weapons heavily. The old ZoS approach “class skills for magicka, weapon skills for stamina” has to go away for all stam classes, not only for stamden/stamNB/stamplar.

IMHO, StamSorc should get:

- either stam frag or stam curse
- Class spammable (that ZoS excuse “sorc has burst, so no class-based sustained dmg tool” is just silly, show me StamSorc burst).
- Air atro (completely different, moving one)
- major fracture as a debuff on one of the new stam skills

This will allow StamSorcs to go away from DB+ spin to win play style (which is not fun for both stamsorc and their opponents), which will be a good start.

Vapirko

Neloth wrote: »

First, I want to notice that I’m going to speak from purely PvP point of view.

I don’t think that a lack of useful passives is the main issue of StamSorc.

Just look at stamden - it also has many useless passives (let’s be honest, it’s bond with nature, piercing cold and some from green balance, which I can’t even name - since many wardens don’t run spores or permafrost in CP PvP. Passive snare reduction and resistances from winter skillline are meh.). However, it’s clearly in top 2 of stam classes, and is really fun to play. Why? Cause it has a lot of class-based ACTIVE skills, which are fun and efficient to use.

The burst from shalks, class spammable, unique class defensive mechanic (shimmering), 2 class based heals. 3 not-so-bad class ultimates (bear is more a PvE thing, yes). Notch giving you major sorcery/brutality. And weapon-based skills just supplement that toolkit, what allow you to chose almost any weapon combination. Like 2H? Sure, you can even front bar it, without relying on clunky dizzying swing. DW, S&S, bow, all can be efficient on stamden.

When I play the class, it really feels like magsorc - I’m using all my class toolkit, but also utilize weapons heavily. The old ZoS approach “class skills for magicka, weapon skills for stamina” has to go away for all stam classes, not only for stamden/stamNB/stamplar.

IMHO, StamSorc should get:

- either stam frag or stam curse
- Class spammable (that ZoS excuse “sorc has burst, so no class-based sustained dmg tool” is just silly, show me StamSorc burst).
- Air atro (completely different, moving one)
- major fracture as a debuff on one of the new stam skills

This will allow StamSorcs to go away from DB+ spin to win play style (which is not fun for both stamsorc and their opponents), which will be a good start.

They might not run spores but vines and or lotus is very popular. Stam warden can easily make use of all the passives. If you don’t use permafrost the two don’t apply but they’re very inconsequential given the Stamden toolkit and strength of the other passives.

Zekka

Neloth wrote: »

Just look at stamden - it also has many useless passives (let’s be honest, it’s bond with nature, piercing cold and some from green balance, which I can’t even name - since many wardens don’t run spores or permafrost in CP PvP. Passive snare reduction and resistances from winter skillline are meh.). However, it’s clearly in top 2 of stam classes, and is really fun to play. Why? Cause it has a lot of class-based ACTIVE skills, which are fun and efficient to use.

The burst from shalks, class spammable, unique class defensive mechanic (shimmering), 2 class based heals. 3 not-so-bad class ultimates (bear is more a PvE thing, yes). Notch giving you major sorcery/brutality. And weapon-based skills just supplement that toolkit, what allow you to chose almost any weapon combination. Like 2H? Sure, you can even front bar it, without relying on clunky dizzying swing. DW, S&S, bow, all can be efficient on stamden.

This.
Enough with the "but someone should be forced to use weapon skill lines" crap, stamsorc and stamdk need more damage morphs.
When I look at my stamblade and my stamplar frontbars, their ENTIRE offensive kits are class skills, meanwhile my stamdk and stamsorc have venomous claw and hurricane, that's pathetic.

Aliyavana

Why do people keep asking for an air atro? If its immoble it would be a bad idea

Wuuffyy

Love
Their
Passives
For
Werewolf...

BaylorCorvette

templesus wrote: »

Excuse me? Stamplar has 9/12 or 10/12?

Im all for buffing passives but don't overplay passives of other classes to further your own..that isnt how you gain support. Furthermore, it throws those classes under the bus by somebody who clearly doesn't play it.

For a STAMINA TEMPLAR only:

Aedric Spear uses all passives that's 4.

Dawns Wrath uses prism and restoring spirit that makes 6. (as for Illuminate buffing Magicka allies, if you include this you have to also include Exploitation for StamSorc as it buffs Magicka allies Crit by 6%)

Restoring Light uses Sacred ground. All the others either A: dont apply to stamplar or B: do something unrelated to stamina as a whole. Rez speed doesnt buff stamplar or even magplar at all, In no way shape or form will it increase your individual performance in PvP. The fact you listed that as an applicable passive is honestly baffling and to be honest discredits your entire argument severely. On top of this no good stamplar still runs remembrance, every single one runs Psijic Ult on backbar for the damage mitigation so the other 2 passives in this tree are negated as well (this was the same reasoning you used for not including Expert Summoner which would increase your HP by 8% with atro up, people dont slot it).

So that makes 7 passives. Which is in fact less then Stam Sorcs or equal if you don't include Daedric protection, so then it becomes a toss-up which truly has less passives that directly buff the user in PvP.

Like I said, I'm all for asking for buffs, but falsifying data is not the way to do it. Thats called a Texas Sharpshooter and is a logical fallacy. Dont throw other classes under the bus to further your own.

I excluded Magicka passive buffs because it doesn't help a Stam build and it is common to run a small man group with only Stam classes. My Stamplar for 4-8 man groups is dual wield and 2h. Sometimes we don't have a healer depending on group comp and as such I'll run Remembrance back bar in case there is a situation that calls for. If Ravager is up my tool tip is over 9.5k. So almost a 4.8k AoE heal in Cyrodiil every second for four seconds is certainly substantial healing for the group. So for me Mending becomes applicable. Light Weaver is only marginally useful but if you're running Remembrance it still applies. Master Ritualist is also loosely useful but it is still technically applied to a Stamplar.

Agreed that Dawn's Wrath is only 2 useful passives for Stamplar.

My point wasn't to say how useful each passive was to each class but simply to point if a class could reasonably make use of a passive. My example above it is more likely and useful if a Stamplar ran an AoE heal that heals for over 4.5k in Cyrodiil every second than it is for a StamSorc to be running Atro. Furthermore, I spend so little time on my back bar that the 8% damage reduction from the Psijic Order skill line provides minimal use from a damage mitigation perspective. I use that Ult more to juke opponents. I definitely agree that Stamplar's passive's aren't particularly great either.

Furthermore, my original post wasn't solely about class passives but also the combination (or lack thereof) of class passives and class abilities and buffs/debuffs is what is a problem for StamSorc. With the change of the Rune, a Stamplar's sustain is a lot better than it used to be and now multiple Templars can Repentance off the same bodies making that a viable skill to slot. It's also a fantastic heal if you're playing with a solid group that is able to kill sufficient numbers. Stamplar also has access to Major Savagery, Minor Fracture and a cleanse. The only thing StamSorc has that is unique is Minor Expedition.

Again, when you look at the classes as a collective whole (not just passives) StamSorc lacks in identity. Streak is nice but its terrain navigation is really bad.

Zekka wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Just look at stamden - it also has many useless passives (let’s be honest, it’s bond with nature, piercing cold and some from green balance, which I can’t even name - since many wardens don’t run spores or permafrost in CP PvP. Passive snare reduction and resistances from winter skillline are meh.). However, it’s clearly in top 2 of stam classes, and is really fun to play. Why? Cause it has a lot of class-based ACTIVE skills, which are fun and efficient to use.

The burst from shalks, class spammable, unique class defensive mechanic (shimmering), 2 class based heals. 3 not-so-bad class ultimates (bear is more a PvE thing, yes). Notch giving you major sorcery/brutality. And weapon-based skills just supplement that toolkit, what allow you to chose almost any weapon combination. Like 2H? Sure, you can even front bar it, without relying on clunky dizzying swing. DW, S&S, bow, all can be efficient on stamden.

This.
Enough with the "but someone should be forced to use weapon skill lines" crap, stamsorc and stamdk need more damage morphs.
When I look at my stamblade and my stamplar frontbars, their ENTIRE offensive kits are class skills, meanwhile my stamdk and stamsorc have venomous claw and hurricane, that's pathetic.

This is exactly the point I'm making. While a Stamplar does compete with StamSorc with the least amount of applicable passives at least Stamplar has a lot more useful class abilities. Rune, Cleanse, Jabs, Power of the Light, Javelin, Repentance.

Typical_T_ReX

I don't even care what it is, but just make it better cause wow it's flavorless right now. Losing implosion on top of that? I forgot there was things to take away lol.

Wuuffyy

Typical_T_ReX wrote: »

I don't even care what it is, but just make it better cause wow it's flavorless right now. Losing implosion on top of that? I forgot there was things to take away lol.

Ikr. Thought it was a staple. Lol.

TimeDazzler

They should have either but not both; conjured ward stamina morph or stamina morph of curse.
Either but not both; stamina mines with lowered cost but ranged similar to lightweight beast trap (also instead of a circle maybe a line shape) or stamina encase morph.
Finally the new passive should be passive minor berserk, 8% damage at all times instead of 10% to 1%.

Vapirko

Cries wrote: »

They should have either but not both; conjured ward stamina morph or stamina morph of curse.
Either but not both; stamina mines with lowered cost but ranged similar to lightweight beast trap (also instead of a circle maybe a line shape) or stamina encase morph.
Finally the new passive should be passive minor berserk, 8% damage at all times instead of 10% to 1%.

No, minor berserk as a given is too strong. Stam sorcs hit plenty hard they just don’t have enough variation to hit with and secondly their bar space gets filled up very fast because skills and passive synergy is low, making most skills very one dimensional and single use. A stam curse could definitely help but you’d be hard pressed to find room for it and you’d still need either rending and spin to win or reverb and reverse slice or whatever. Stam sorcs jjst have to slot too many skills to get their main benefits right now. Crit surge, hurricane, dark deal, bound armaments all need to be slotted before you even think about damage skills or the basics like vigor, FM/shuffle, etc. On my stamplar I only need ritual, rune and repent, and then jabs and PoL mean I don’t need an execute. And I’m being offered way more utility and passive synergy.

ZarkingFrued

Tannus15 wrote: »

The 2 changes I'd give stam sorc would be Air Atro & to change crystal blast into a stam version of Crystal Frags. literally works exactly the same way, just does physical damage.

If they gave stam frags major fracture i'd lose. my. ***.

I would much rather have a stam haunting curse. Id take that anyday: curse-crit rush-dizzy-Dawnbreaker-reverse slice all day.

Ocelot9x

Stam dk enters the chat

gepe87

Some not used magsorc abilities could be reworked to stam:
Daedric tomb to instant stam trap like the one from eternal hunt set.
Crystal blast as stam fragments version;
Lightning flood to a stam aoe
Mage wrath to stam execute (endless fury stam version)
Atronach Ulti to Air atronach that follows you.

Rukzadlithau

Stamplar has worse passives.
Stamsorc is not in a bad spot but needs slight adjustment.

My wishlist:

• Increase Hurricane base damage slightly
  • The over time % modifier was nerfed previously
• Make Bound Armaments a toggle again for permanent block mitigation
  • adjust mitigation to 25%
• Air Attronach
• Expert Mage passive 3% at rank II
  • Currently 2% at rank II
• Rework Amplitude treshold so you keep the full 10% up to 90% HP
• Make the Wrecking Blow morph from 2h instant

TiZzA93

The air atro will be used in pve only, why not make 1 of the overload morphs physical dmg with mini relequen effects going up ur arms

Morgul667

Stamplar

Buzo wrote: »

Stamplar has worse passives.
Stamsorc is not in a bad spot but needs slight adjustment.

My wishlist:

• Increase Hurricane base damage slightly
  • The over time % modifier was nerfed previously
• Make Bound Armaments a toggle again for permanent block mitigation
  • adjust mitigation to 25%
• Air Attronach
• Expert Mage passive 3% at rank II
  • Currently 2% at rank II
• Rework Amplitude treshold so you keep the full 10% up to 90% HP
• Make the Wrecking Blow morph from 2h instant

Stamplar is pretty awesome

Aznox

I don't think stamsorc is lacking raw stats/power.

However i'd appreciate a bit more options :
- Stamina scaling Clanfear (not so strong it would be insta-pick, just viable)
- Physical Damage ultimate (even a niche option like immobile Atro)
- Another stam morph in the Dark Magic Skill Line (not a spammable, something strategic)

ATreeGnome

Speaking purely from a PvE viewpoint, I'd like to see a stamina morph of Lightning Splash. If stam sorcs can offer a synergy for more Alkosh uptime they will be a lot more desirable in trials without giving them too much of a direct buff to their damage.

They also need a useful and non-clunky way to activate the Exploiter passive, then they will at least be close to on par with mag sorcs in terms of group utility.

Doctor_Zeuss

I agree that Stam Sorc needs to be looked at, but not fully in line with your suggestions. I main a stam sorc and am mostly PvE, though I hold my own in PvP too. I love the lightning/storm theme of the class, and I always prefer melee builds in games, so stam sorc means a lot to me.

Stam sorcs imo, are all about buffing themselves right now. Bound Armaments, Crit Surge, Hurricane: all buff type abilities. They need more active abilities, and maybe those active abilities should apply the major/minor buffs/debuffs that Stam Sorc is severely lacking. Some very important ones they’re lacking now are major/minor fracture, minor berserk, major savagery.

Another thing that they lack - in my opinion is unique flavor. They have hurricane which is visible, but very passive. Crit surge, bound armaments, dark deal are all very passive and not thematically impactful imo.

My suggestion: double down on the fun, badass lightning warrior theme, while making the combat more engaging and dynamic.

•Change the unused morph of crystal fragments into a stamina version that procs off of stamina skills. With more lightning visuals! Instead of a crystal, shoot a single bolt of electricity at a target(like the Storm Atronach’s attack, but a single hit). So you could use cast time lightning bolts and/or procced instant lightning bolts, just as Crystal Frags currently works. More sorc theme added and more engaging combat added with one change. Pleeeease.

•Combine the two magicka morphs of Mage’s Fury into one with both effects(just slightly lessened). Make the other morph a stamina version. Either a spammable or an execute. Both ability types would work well. This would also allow stam sorcs to show off their inherent theme more by using lightning effectively in combat.

•A mobile, physical damage Air Atronach ultimate in Daedric Summoning is a wonderful idea.

This could open up so much variety in both PvE and PvP for stam sorcs. If you don’t like an ability, there are other choices already in the game, but more options are better in this case. It would give so much more flavor to my favorite class, which it’s severely lacking atm.

I don’t propose these with the intention of taking anything away from mag sorcs, so if my proposed changes would negatively affect my mag brothers and sisters in any way, let me know how you’d change it.