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Please address perma rooting and snares, it is beyond good and bad.

Dr.NRG
Dr.NRG
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This constant rooting and being snared to a point where you cant kite or get out of situations is out of control.This effects all kind of pvp. Literally every second action once takes applies a snare and it is way to easy and rewarding to run broken perma root builds which so so many people do due to how broken this mechanic is.

Run solo and you will get lock in place so hard you dont have a chance of doing anything unless you run such a tanky build to which point you cannot kill anyone anymore and vise versa.
Run in a small or larg group then you have 2 armies face to face locked in one place either trying to break free/ dodge or endlessly beating each other in the face until people slowly start dropping cause they run out of resources. If your team is the one trying to get out of roots and snares then your team will lose as they will run outta resources first and are most likely still stuck.
This has gotten so bad that often you cannot even kill 3-4 pve telvar farmers as even they will just lock you in one place, dump their skills on you and good night. You run into them with a templar and due to their cleanse you will shredd these guys in a sec. This is not balanced and foces you to run cheasy tank builds else being slow, almost unkillable and unable to kill decent any decent pvper. So besides that no matter how you play (unless you spam snipe from the back) this is not fun and very frustrating.
These are just some examples of the issue at hand, this problem extends much further but I think you get the idea.

Zos please get this fixed in this upcoming patch, tell me if im wrong yall but I believe besides sever performance this is once of the most important things that need to be adressed for pvp.
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  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    U can break free from hard CCs and then get 8 seconds of hard CC immunity.

    Instead of nerfing snares and roots we need reliable counter to them. How about making roll dodge to give you 4 seconds of root and snare immunity afterwards?
  • ZonasArch
    ZonasArch
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    U can break free from hard CCs and then get 8 seconds of hard CC immunity.

    Instead of nerfing snares and roots we need reliable counter to them. How about making roll dodge to give you 4 seconds of root and snare immunity afterwards?

    Not when you have literally 3 or 4 of those on you at the same time.
  • cpuScientist
    cpuScientist
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    This. I have begun to actively hate frost tank Wardens, and I say that as someone who often plays a Warden in PvP. They are now always at the absolute top of my kill list in BGs, even if going after them isn't particularly strategic, simply because they're so deeply annoying I feel they must die before they can snare my entire team forever.

    It's not really wardens tbh. It's just chilled with ice staff. Now wardens do add some annoying aspects to it for sure. So do magDK for that matter.

    But I mean anything with ice staff can really do well in this role. Especially if they also have access to a class root. So sorc dk and warden.
  • cpuScientist
    cpuScientist
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    Now DK especially relies on snares/roots. They need control. They need to not have their skills be useless for too long.

    All that needs to be added is a Magicka snare immunity. Something that does something else and gives 2 seconds of snare immunity. Something like that one psijic skill perhaps......
  • OrdoHermetica
    OrdoHermetica
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    This. I have begun to actively hate frost tank Wardens, and I say that as someone who often plays a Warden in PvP. They are now always at the absolute top of my kill list in BGs, even if going after them isn't particularly strategic, simply because they're so deeply annoying I feel they must die before they can snare my entire team forever.

    It's not really wardens tbh. It's just chilled with ice staff. Now wardens do add some annoying aspects to it for sure. So do magDK for that matter.

    But I mean anything with ice staff can really do well in this role. Especially if they also have access to a class root. So sorc dk and warden.

    Other classes are indeed quite capable of it, yes, but in my experience Wardens are the most annoying of the bunch by far. Having an entire Class skill line that deals with ice and an ulti that snares and roots everyone around them pushes it to a whole new level.
    Edited by OrdoHermetica on January 30, 2019 9:21AM
  • Dr.NRG
    Dr.NRG
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    This. I have begun to actively hate frost tank Wardens, and I say that as someone who often plays a Warden in PvP. They are now always at the absolute top of my kill list in BGs, even if going after them isn't particularly strategic, simply because they're so deeply annoying I feel they must die before they can snare my entire team forever.

    Since they are sitting in the storm themselves they should at least get the same effect applied on them too so that when they cast this crap they would be stationary. This would allow some counterplay and require them to use this more carfully.
    .
  • Dr.NRG
    Dr.NRG
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    Now DK especially relies on snares/roots. They need control. They need to not have their skills be useless for too long.

    All that needs to be added is a Magicka snare immunity. Something that does something else and gives 2 seconds of snare immunity. Something like that one psijic skill perhaps......


    I dont think DKs are the issue unless they spam heroic slash and snare the crap outta ya. For magica dks the and even the fossilise stun/root can be dealt with as these have a short range and can be countered easy through doge rolls or crating some distance. They become an issue if other players are around who add to that by snaring, freezing or rooting you on top of it.

    We start to get problems when these things start to stack, with snares as the main issue. Especially on ice wardens you get rooted, then frozen and at the same time you are snared. So you barly any chance to get out of that situation and surely dont wanna get into it either. So how do you kill like that. Its really dumb it only take a couple of noobs to destroy a really good pvper with these mechanics which is really sad.


    Another problem with this (especially in no cp) is that this is synerging with another huge issue; pve ground abilities. So you bring one Ice warden or a mag dk then everyone else drops caldrops, destruction walls, hail and other and the all they need to do is hold block or heal. Or you just bring some no sustain squishy pure damage Snipers and have them kill you while you are stuck. Im sorry ZOS but this is beyond stupid and absolutely no fun.
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  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    I swear to *** if they nerf the damage on ice damage skills instead of the snares im gonna hurt someone.
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    Let's make frost better for everyone!
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    Here's what needs to happen,

    The movement speed equation needs to be changed from:
    Speed = Base * (1.0 + Buffs + Sprint) * (1.0 - Snare)
    

    To:
    Speed = Base * (1.0 + Buffs + Sprint - Snare)
    

    Currently, movement speed is calculated using the former equation, which means a 40% snare disproportionately hits a faster moving build more than a slower moving build. Changing to the latter will simply subtract 40% from your bonuses, so a build with a movement speed of 140% (Base + Major Expedition + Minor Expedition) will become 100%, instead of the 84% we have now.

    Next, all snares need to be reevaluated and toned down. I went over this in more detail in another thread, but generally, it should go something like:

    Area Denial > Deliberate Single Target > Deliberate AOE > Passive

    Area denial skills should have the strongest snares, counterbalanced by small radiuses to make it easy to get out of them, then deliberate single target, then deliberate AOE, then finally any snares attached to any given skill, such as Rending Slashes or whatever. By reducing snares overall, they still retain their functionality without being crippling.

    Roots should have some sort of cooldown, or diminishing returns, to prevent endlessly chaining them. Either introduce a longer cooldown on roll dodge, or introduce a diminishing returns mechanic where if you're hit with a root within x seconds of breaking out of another, the effectiveness is reduced. First root could be 100% effectiveness, next could be 50%, then 25%, then 12.5%, etc. Something like that.
    @jcm2606 | PC NA | CP 940+ | Stormproof | Boethia's Scythe
  • barshemm
    barshemm
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    Dr.NRG wrote: »
    Now DK especially relies on snares/roots. They need control. They need to not have their skills be useless for too long.

    All that needs to be added is a Magicka snare immunity. Something that does something else and gives 2 seconds of snare immunity. Something like that one psijic skill perhaps......


    I dont think DKs are the issue unless they spam heroic slash and snare the crap outta ya. For magica dks the and even the fossilise stun/root can be dealt with as these have a short range and can be countered easy through doge rolls or crating some distance. They become an issue if other players are around who add to that by snaring, freezing or rooting you on top of it.

    We start to get problems when these things start to stack, with snares as the main issue. Especially on ice wardens you get rooted, then frozen and at the same time you are snared. So you barly any chance to get out of that situation and surely dont wanna get into it either. So how do you kill like that. Its really dumb it only take a couple of noobs to destroy a really good pvper with these mechanics which is really sad.


    Another problem with this (especially in no cp) is that this is synerging with another huge issue; pve ground abilities. So you bring one Ice warden or a mag dk then everyone else drops caldrops, destruction walls, hail and other and the all they need to do is hold block or heal. Or you just bring some no sustain squishy pure damage Snipers and have them kill you while you are stuck. Im sorry ZOS but this is beyond stupid and absolutely no fun.

    Mag dks shut down melee builds.
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    U can break free from hard CCs and then get 8 seconds of hard CC immunity.

    Instead of nerfing snares and roots we need reliable counter to them. How about making roll dodge to give you 4 seconds of root and snare immunity afterwards?

    No, they need to be nerfed. It's absolutely ridiculous how much and how common they are. Seriously feel like my character is walking through molasses sometimes just trying to get into some LOS when I'm getting 10v2'd )':
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  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    It wouldn't be so prevalent if 3 classes didn't need to crutch on them by design + ZOS didn't nerf LA wearers so much. Ut's funny how the forums still hasn't figured out that every nerf results in a WORSE reactive change in gameplay that's not fun for anyone. Well, guess lessons must be taught the hard way...
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    Kadoin wrote: »
    It wouldn't be so prevalent if 3 classes didn't need to crutch on them by design + ZOS didn't nerf LA wearers so much. Ut's funny how the forums still hasn't figured out that every nerf results in a WORSE reactive change in gameplay that's not fun for anyone. Well, guess lessons must be taught the hard way...

    I think removing some sources of snares and roots will actually result in a more pleasant gameplay experience.
    Bee/Karstyll
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
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    Wyress Bee~Breton Warden~AR43
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    Bee Devani~Dunmer Sorcerer~AR31

    Despair~Altmer Sorcerer~AR29 Former Empress of Azura's Star
    Fairly Beeweather~Bosmer Nightblade~AR19
  • Dreyloch
    Dreyloch
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    I'm just curious OP, do you use Immoveable pots?

    Sure I get stuck here and there, it's a little worse on a magicka build, but if you have some stam, hit your pot, have some resources left to dodge roll with. Then getting stuck doesn't happen that often. Even as a magicka user.

    I see a TON of PvP build videos where they suggest speed and stam pots, crit pots, all kinds of stuff that makes them hit harder, but will almost certainly get them locked down eventually and die. I don't know the exact specifics, but I have heard rumor Immove. pots are not working right. Maybe that's a better place to start your crusade?
    "The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Dreyloch wrote: »
    I'm just curious OP, do you use Immoveable pots?

    Sure I get stuck here and there, it's a little worse on a magicka build, but if you have some stam, hit your pot, have some resources left to dodge roll with. Then getting stuck doesn't happen that often. Even as a magicka user.

    I see a TON of PvP build videos where they suggest speed and stam pots, crit pots, all kinds of stuff that makes them hit harder, but will almost certainly get them locked down eventually and die. I don't know the exact specifics, but I have heard rumor Immove. pots are not working right. Maybe that's a better place to start your crusade?

    OP isn´t complaining about being CC´d/stunned. Immovable pots prevents you from being stunned and does nothing against snares and roots.
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  • FrankonPC
    FrankonPC
    ✭✭✭
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    Here's what needs to happen,

    The movement speed equation needs to be changed from:
    Speed = Base * (1.0 + Buffs + Sprint) * (1.0 - Snare)
    

    To:
    Speed = Base * (1.0 + Buffs + Sprint - Snare)
    

    Currently, movement speed is calculated using the former equation, which means a 40% snare disproportionately hits a faster moving build more than a slower moving build. Changing to the latter will simply subtract 40% from your bonuses, so a build with a movement speed of 140% (Base + Major Expedition + Minor Expedition) will become 100%, instead of the 84% we have now.

    Next, all snares need to be reevaluated and toned down. I went over this in more detail in another thread, but generally, it should go something like:

    Area Denial > Deliberate Single Target > Deliberate AOE > Passive

    Area denial skills should have the strongest snares, counterbalanced by small radiuses to make it easy to get out of them, then deliberate single target, then deliberate AOE, then finally any snares attached to any given skill, such as Rending Slashes or whatever. By reducing snares overall, they still retain their functionality without being crippling.

    Roots should have some sort of cooldown, or diminishing returns, to prevent endlessly chaining them. Either introduce a longer cooldown on roll dodge, or introduce a diminishing returns mechanic where if you're hit with a root within x seconds of breaking out of another, the effectiveness is reduced. First root could be 100% effectiveness, next could be 50%, then 25%, then 12.5%, etc. Something like that.

    I like the top half, because I understand it. Would have to read more on your area denial etc to comment further but I think this is a good step.
  • mb10
    mb10
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    Shares are fine

    Kiting freely is a much bigger problem to PvP than snares are

  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    U can break free from hard CCs and then get 8 seconds of hard CC immunity.

    Instead of nerfing snares and roots we need reliable counter to them. How about making roll dodge to give you 4 seconds of root and snare immunity afterwards?

    You can break free the first time but your stamina doesn't regen fast enough to break the second or third time. If you're not getting rooted you're getting knocked down or stunned or feared. Your stamina doesn't stand a chance.
  • Dr.NRG
    Dr.NRG
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    Well there are many ways this could be fixed. What’s important is that something is being done about it, even if its a bandage fix for now please do something.
    .
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    I know what I've done about it. I've stopped getting back up or breaking free if there isn't an eminent threat of death. When I get knocked down, I just lay there and hope I can get a second to recover some stamina. Unfortunately this means that I'm not going to be CC immune so I've been frozen and rooted while flat on the ground. Sometimes I've wanted to get up but didn't have the stamina. Other times, I'm just laying there saving up stamina so that I can break free from the next CC that's coming in a few seconds.
  • Dr.NRG
    Dr.NRG
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    I know what I've done about it. I've stopped getting back up or breaking free if there isn't an eminent threat of death. When I get knocked down, I just lay there and hope I can get a second to recover some stamina. Unfortunately this means that I'm not going to be CC immune so I've been frozen and rooted while flat on the ground. Sometimes I've wanted to get up but didn't have the stamina. Other times, I'm just laying there saving up stamina so that I can break free from the next CC that's coming in a few seconds.

    That might work when you duel a low dps gamer but open world or bgs you are guaranteed to die if you just sit on the ground waiting it out.
    We need some serious fixing but given that ZOS just added a snare reduction to redguards it seems like they are not gonna do anything about it. Are they expecting us to all be redguards, wardens or both next patch? Whats happening here...? Im wondering if they are trolling us since we have been asking for this to get fixed for so long and now they just add that passive. If so that would actually be quite funny if not then its a huge slap in the face saying we will not address this.
    .
  • Dr.NRG
    Dr.NRG
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    Still nothing on this it’s saddening:(
    .
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