Can't seem to find a build that makes a Dunmer mDK "shine" like its counterparts. Need suggestions.

Savos_Saren

I'm trying to find a hybrid build (since that's what Dunmer are supposed to be now) which makes an mDK shine like the other Archetype builds.

Usually, we see Altmer MagSorcs, Bosmer StamBlades, OrcStamSorcs, Redguard StamPlars, Breton MagPlars, etc... that seem to be tailored to certain builds. However, I can't seem to make a Dunmer hybrid build that is as powerful as those other archetypes. Because, face it, there are Archetypes for certain races to be on certain classes.

I've tried Pelinal- which unfortunately, only gives you max weapon OR spell damage... but not both. I've tried heavy armor mDK builds that use Take Flight buffed by Igneous Weapons- but everything eventually ends up gimped. You don't get to maximize CP like the other races do... because you end up having to invest between Spell AND Weapon penetration while also investing between Elemental Expert AND Mighty. You also have to invest more into recovery and penetration instead of damage for a pure damage dealer spec.

I think that's a problem we're going to constantly run into as a Dunmer. Most races can invest their CP toward one spec... but in order for us to maximize our racial passives- we have to spread our CP and weap/spell power all over the place.

Does anyone have a build that utilizes both Magic and Stamina abilities on an mDK in order to take full advantage of the racial changes?

Dracane

If you think that Dunmer has to be a hybrid, then you got it entirely wrong.
Dunmer is merely good with magicka and stamina, nobody is great with both at the same time. As you said, once we get to the point where we must plan our penetration stat, it ends.

The strenght of Dunmer is that they get pleasant all around stats. When you go for a magicka build, you have to worry less about stamina and health, because you already get more of it than the other, pure races.
As a stamina build you get a good amount of magicka to spend on magicka dumps.

And if you consider that fire resistance and burning immunity is always relevant in pvp, you have a very good all around race that can be good with any class and spec, not just one specific one like the other races.

While other races are best forced into one specific role, Dunmer can fit them all.

MashmalloMan

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I've tried Pelinal- which unfortunately, only gives you max weapon OR spell damage... but not both.

You are going to need to clarify what you mean by this because thats the exact reason to USE Pelinal's Aptitude Set, it copies whichever max dmg you have to the other stat.

I'm guessing you are trying to use this build for pvp, a hybrid is def possible for pvp. Pve, not as much..

It's easier to stack weapon dmg then it is to stack spell dmg.

Medium armor provides 15% wpd, fighters guild has 3% per ability slotted, minor brutality is easy to access for 10% wep dmg here too. Ults restore both resources not just 1 or the other, DK is probably the best for hybrid. There is also some pretty good heavy armor sets that boost weapon dmg like veiled heritance, 7th legion and ravager where there is less options available to light armor - this synergies well with Pelinal's.

Magicka DD's usually gets bonuses to max mag, but the problem is there isn't any set in the game that does what Pelinal's does for max resource and as you said for CP, you're forced to invest in to 2 types of CP's and there just isn't enough CP to use.

If this is for pvp though, it's better to go heavy armor, it will allow you to restore both your resource pools at the same time when being dmged as well as being tanky. Get all tri-stat glyphs on armor. Stack weapon dmg, slot flawless dawnbreaker on front bar for 8% dmg or smiting for 3% if you need the cc and can't use a back bar ult.

With more CP cap raises hybrids got closer to viability, but looks like they're holding off on that. If you play in battlegrounds or no CP pvp, you will have an easier time because they're is no cp for everyone!

Either use thief or lover for mundus because it double dips.

Also I don't really see what you mean by every class has a race made for it, maybe dunmers on live with DK.. but your talking pts here. At this point the changes made are to open every race for every class more so then before.

You don't need to play Dunmer as a hybrid, it just helps with pvp or if you want to reset your build to mag dd or sta dd whenever you want.

MashmalloMan

Dracane wrote: »

If you think that Dunmer has to be a hybrid, then you got it entirely wrong.
Dunmer is merely good with magicka and stamina, nobody is great with both at the same time. As you said, once we get to the point where we must plan our penetration stat, it ends.

The strenght of Dunmer is that they get pleasant all around stats. When you go for a magicka build, you have to worry less about stamina and health, because you already get more of it than the other, pure races.
As a stamina build you get a good amount of magicka to spend on magicka dumps.

And if you consider that fire resistance and burning immunity is always relevant in pvp, you have a very good all around race that can be good with any class and spec, not just one specific one like the other races.

While other races are best forced into one specific role, Dunmer can fit them all.

This.

Also, if you're serious about a hybrid DK build.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/452387/hybrid-dk-build-video-4500-sd-wd-3k-mag-recov-13-8k-lash-22k-leap/p1

Savos_Saren

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I've tried Pelinal- which unfortunately, only gives you max weapon OR spell damage... but not both.

You are going to need to clarify what you mean by this because thats the exact reason to USE Pelinal's Aptitude Set, it copies whichever max dmg you have to the other stat.

I'm guessing you are trying to use this build for pvp, a hybrid is def possible for pvp. Pve, not as much..

It's easier to stack weapon dmg then it is to stack spell dmg.

Medium armor provides 15% wpd, fighters guild has 3% per ability slotted, minor brutality is easy to access for 10% wep dmg here too. Ults restore both resources not just 1 or the other, DK is probably the best for hybrid. There is also some pretty good heavy armor sets that boost weapon dmg like veiled heritance, 7th legion and ravager where there is less options available to light armor - this synergies well with Pelinal's.

Magicka DD's usually gets bonuses to max mag, but the problem is there isn't any set in the game that does what Pelinal's does for max resource and as you said for CP, you're forced to invest in to 2 types of CP's and there just isn't enough CP to use.

If this is for pvp though, it's better to go heavy armor, it will allow you to restore both your resource pools at the same time when being dmged as well as being tanky. Get all tri-stat glyphs on armor. Stack weapon dmg, slot flawless dawnbreaker on front bar for 8% dmg or smiting for 3% if you need the cc and can't use a back bar ult.

With more CP cap raises hybrids got closer to viability, but looks like they're holding off on that. If you play in battlegrounds or no CP pvp, you will have an easier time because they're is no cp for everyone!

Either use thief or lover for mundus because it double dips.

Also I don't really see what you mean by every class has a race made for it, maybe dunmers on live with DK.. but your talking pts here. At this point the changes made are to open every race for every class more so then before.

You don't need to play Dunmer as a hybrid, it just helps with pvp or if you want to reset your build to mag dd or sta dd whenever you want.

For the first bolded part of your statement- yes, medium armor gives you 15% more damage- but if you're using that damage to buff up your spell damage- remember- you're now missing out on 4884 spell penetration, spell crit, and reduced cost of spells from NOT using light armor.

For the second bolded part- if you go with heavy armor- now you're not getting the weapon damage or spell penetration- so using Pelinals isn't really giving you much at all.

Also, if you're constantly spreading your CP to accommodate spell/weapon penetration or mighty/ele expert- you're always going to fall short of optimized builds like an Altmer MagSorc.

For the third bolded part... not so much. An Altmer is clearly tailored toward MagSorc… not MagDK or MagBlade or MagDen. Look at their newest racial passive:

Spellcharge: Gain 9% Magicka Recovery → Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time. (DKs and Nightblades have ZERO channeled abilities.. Sorcs have four.)

You can't tell me that there isn't some racial prejudice toward certain classes.

Savos_Saren

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

If you think that Dunmer has to be a hybrid, then you got it entirely wrong.
Dunmer is merely good with magicka and stamina, nobody is great with both at the same time. As you said, once we get to the point where we must plan our penetration stat, it ends.

The strenght of Dunmer is that they get pleasant all around stats. When you go for a magicka build, you have to worry less about stamina and health, because you already get more of it than the other, pure races.
As a stamina build you get a good amount of magicka to spend on magicka dumps.

And if you consider that fire resistance and burning immunity is always relevant in pvp, you have a very good all around race that can be good with any class and spec, not just one specific one like the other races.

While other races are best forced into one specific role, Dunmer can fit them all.

This.

Also, if you're serious about a hybrid DK build.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/452387/hybrid-dk-build-video-4500-sd-wd-3k-mag-recov-13-8k-lash-22k-leap/p1

@Marshall1289
I think I'm the one who pointed out @SkysOutThizeOut build to you when this PTS first came out. The only problem is that his hybrid build received the 7% flame damage buff while using Pelinal's build. It wouldn't hit nearly as hard now... because he wouldn't be utilizing weapon damage AND a flame damage buff. The damage would only be based off of your weapon damage... and you'd be losing out on 7% flame damage.

I spoke to @skysout about his build with the new PTS in place. He's focusing on a Warden instead, now.

Banana

Just drop the hybrid idea and become a breton and youll become better looking

Dracane

Savos_Saren wrote: »

You can't tell me that there isn't some racial prejudice toward certain classes.

Nobody tells you this. Because prejudice is needed.
Dunmer is not as good with magic as Bretons and Altmer and these changes finally put Dunmer where they belong lore wise.

Savos_Saren

Dracane wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

You can't tell me that there isn't some racial prejudice toward certain classes.

Nobody tells you this. Because prejudice is needed.
Dunmer is not as good with magic as Bretons and Altmer and these changes finally put Dunmer where they belong lore wise.

Dunmer are supposed to have more raw spell damage than Altmer and Breton. In order to equalize it- Dunmer have to spec toward magicka regeneration. Altmer are the perfect in between. Breton have huge regen so they have to spec toward spell damage. It all evens out.

Dracane

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

You can't tell me that there isn't some racial prejudice toward certain classes.

Nobody tells you this. Because prejudice is needed.
Dunmer is not as good with magic as Bretons and Altmer and these changes finally put Dunmer where they belong lore wise.

Dunmer are supposed to have more raw spell damage than Altmer and Breton. In order to equalize it- Dunmer have to spec toward magicka regeneration. Altmer are the perfect in between. Breton have huge regen so they have to spec toward spell damage. It all evens out.

And how do you get the idea that Dunmer are supposed to have more raw spell damage ? Based on how overtuned Dunmer was for the past 1-2 years ? This was not representative of how Dunmer are and they were portraied much stronger with magic in ESO than they should have been.

Dunmer never even was a contender for the best Spellcaster, yet people were let to believe otherwise thanks to eso. Things are pretty much where they should be now. Altough I think Dunmer should have gotten a significant amount of fire damage and less spell damage instead.

grannas211

How many threads are you going to make? I get it Dark Elf is your favorite race. But stop these pouting threads

ak_pvp

Dracane wrote: »

If you think that Dunmer has to be a hybrid, then you got it entirely wrong.
Dunmer is merely good with magicka and stamina, nobody is great with both at the same time. As you said, once we get to the point where we must plan our penetration stat, it ends.

The strenght of Dunmer is that they get pleasant all around stats. When you go for a magicka build, you have to worry less about stamina and health, because you already get more of it than the other, pure races.
As a stamina build you get a good amount of magicka to spend on magicka dumps.

And if you consider that fire resistance and burning immunity is always relevant in pvp, you have a very good all around race that can be good with any class and spec, not just one specific one like the other races.

While other races are best forced into one specific role, Dunmer can fit them all.

That's er, pointless. Why would you choose a race that is obviously far sub par in a game where minmaxing matters so much. PvE its almost useless cause max deeps matters heavily, and sustain is Its not even a great PvP race. If you want to switch, just spend gold on crowns. Or maybe choose a race that is good for switching on demand for PvP and one of the classes that can do something best and switch decently. I.e. Khajiit, which works out as one of the best both DPSs. Maybe nord, one of the best tanks and decent DPS/PvP chars.

Dracane

ak_pvp wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

If you think that Dunmer has to be a hybrid, then you got it entirely wrong.
Dunmer is merely good with magicka and stamina, nobody is great with both at the same time. As you said, once we get to the point where we must plan our penetration stat, it ends.

The strenght of Dunmer is that they get pleasant all around stats. When you go for a magicka build, you have to worry less about stamina and health, because you already get more of it than the other, pure races.
As a stamina build you get a good amount of magicka to spend on magicka dumps.

And if you consider that fire resistance and burning immunity is always relevant in pvp, you have a very good all around race that can be good with any class and spec, not just one specific one like the other races.

While other races are best forced into one specific role, Dunmer can fit them all.

That's er, pointless. Why would you choose a race that is obviously far sub par in a game where minmaxing matters so much. PvE its almost useless cause max deeps matters heavily, and sustain is Its not even a great PvP race. If you want to switch, just spend gold on crowns. Or maybe choose a race that is good for switching on demand for PvP and one of the classes that can do something best and switch decently. I.e. Khajiit, which works out as one of the best both DPSs. Maybe nord, one of the best tanks and decent DPS/PvP chars.

It only matters to minmaxers, not to anyone else.
The differences between races are smaller than ever now and you can just play what suits you the most visually.
There will always be something that will be ahead by a few percents and if that matters to you, you probably must use it.

However if you expect Dunmer to be on the exact same level with Bretons and Altmer in terms of magic, then this is merely an unfounded expectation that you are having. In terms of raw damage, Dunmer is the best with stamina and 2nd best with magicka (I will never mention Khajiit, as it has been proven their dps is highly unreliable)

So what ? In total Dunmer ranks higher than any other race. No other race can claim to be almost as strong as the top race of the opposing.... ressource I should say ?
Minmaxers will be salty that Dunmer is no longer the king of Magicka. Everyone else will likely see in what a good position Dunmer are damage wise.