Sorc tank question
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Joxer61
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Ok, trying out Sorc tank and its loads of fun. I went cruising the webs for build input and I noticed that none of the builds I found had them using Encase/ morph to Restraining Prison for a cc, very much like DK claws?
Is there a reason for this that I am not seeing....cost, etc.? Because they look like a good skill to use and would help fill those missing gaps of no CC (other than Time Stop and Caltrops) and then there is Silver Leash which works quite nice but a tad costly so use sparingly.
So yea, enlighten me to what I am missing or would a build using these be just fine? Also, how tricky is Dark Deal to use? I read that its great but you have to be careful as you drop your block...so just a timing thing or not take it if to big a risk? Cheers!
Is there a reason for this that I am not seeing....cost, etc.? Because they look like a good skill to use and would help fill those missing gaps of no CC (other than Time Stop and Caltrops) and then there is Silver Leash which works quite nice but a tad costly so use sparingly.
So yea, enlighten me to what I am missing or would a build using these be just fine? Also, how tricky is Dark Deal to use? I read that its great but you have to be careful as you drop your block...so just a timing thing or not take it if to big a risk? Cheers!
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Encase is an AOE immobilize, so you stack with silver leash and hold the mobs still with encase, for your DPS to safely burn them down.
What do your bars currently look like?
Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 25, 2019 7:56AM0 -
Alucu✭✭✭Encase is sorc's talons! Dark deal-spell simmetry is a good combo too.Building communities since 2017
Para los Jugadores Hispanos: LA FUNDACION GM
For advanced PvE: DRAGON VOID Officer
For advanced PvP: PROJECT NOVA Member0 -
Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Encase is an AOE immobilize, so you stack with silver leash and hold the mobs still with encase, for your DPS to safely burn them down.
What do your bars currently look like?
I only just started so nothing but 1h/s skills and pet for now.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't use talons on my dk, and talons have an overwhelming advantage over encase. -15% damage to the enemies. you can still use it if you don't have other skills you want on your bars.0 -
Alucu✭✭✭I don't use talons on my dk, and talons have an overwhelming advantage over encase. -15% damage to the enemies. you can still use it if you don't have other skills you want on your bars.
People tend to not use them a lot prioritizing things like engulfing flames or blockade for crusher (now probably mandatory with the 1 handed enchant changes). However, there are fights in which the talons become pretty much a necessity though, like zaj hassa in vMoL, encase could also work in these scenarios since you will also be able to permaroot unlike other classes or abilities like frost blockade (not guaranteed proc) or time stop (Stun cc cooldown)Building communities since 2017
Para los Jugadores Hispanos: LA FUNDACION GM
For advanced PvE: DRAGON VOID Officer
For advanced PvP: PROJECT NOVA Member1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't use talons on my dk, and talons have an overwhelming advantage over encase. -15% damage to the enemies. you can still use it if you don't have other skills you want on your bars.
Talons also give a synergy. Encase does give a nice advantage to you though, +30% healing received, for up to 8 seconds. That is pretty good.
I only just started so nothing but 1h/s skills and pet for now.
Not really specific. Only 2 skills from the S/b line that are worth running for a pve tank, most of the time are heroic slash and Pierce armor, though it has been recently found out that the 8% damage reduction from absorb magic is addative and not multiplicative with block, making it a lot more attractive.
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Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »
Talons also give a synergy. Encase does give a nice advantage to you though, +30% healing received, for up to 8 seconds. That is pretty good.
Not really specific. Only 2 skills from the S/b line that are worth running for a pve tank, most of the time are heroic slash and Pierce armor, though it has been recently found out that the 8% damage reduction from absorb magic is addative and not multiplicative with block, making it a lot more attractive.
yea sorry, my bad, should have been clearer. Meant I have just the 2 skills, meaning pierce and slash and yea will be slotting absorb magic as well! Also, Bound Armor no longer a thing? Again, all of this is coming from builds I could find, might not be what people are actually using, thus my post. Cheers!0 -
Dumac✭✭Is your sorc tank magicka based or stamina based? I have been looking for more ways to utilise my StamSorcEdited by Dumac on January 25, 2019 12:54PM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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yea sorry, my bad, should have been clearer. Meant I have just the 2 skills, meaning pierce and slash and yea will be slotting absorb magic as well! Also, Bound Armor no longer a thing? Again, all of this is coming from builds I could find, might not be what people are actually using, thus my post. Cheers!
Bound armor is also addative, with both block and absorb magic, though I am not sure you would have enough space on your bars with the pet having to be double barred.
If I was to make ansorc tank, I suppose I would have the bars look like this-
Front bar s/b
Absorb magic, clannfear, boundless storm, heroic slash, Pierce armor, ulti absorption field/spell wall
Back bar ice staff
Dark deal, clannfear, restraining prison, silver leash, wall of elements, ulti warhorn.
This has everything you need. Maybe swap boundless and dark deal. You could try bound armor instead of absorb magic, 36% increase in damage for 3 seconds for 4k mag or 3.5k Stam, depending on your morph choice. Depends on how confident you are at predicting damage, personally, I would rather have the constant, free effect.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 25, 2019 1:08PM0 -
Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »
Bound armor is also addative, with both block and absorb magic, though I am not sure you would have enough space on your bars with the pet having to be double barred.
If I was to make ansorc tank, I suppose I would have the bars look like this-
Front bar s/b
Absorb magic, clannfear, boundless storm, heroic slash, Pierce armor, ulti absorption field/spell wall
Back bar ice staff
Dark deal, clannfear, restraining prison, silver leash, wall of elements, ulti warhorn.
This has everything you need. Maybe swap boundless and dark deal. You could try bound armor instead of absorb magic, 36% increase in damage for 3 seconds for 4k mag or 3.5k Stam, depending on your morph choice. Depends on how confident you are at predicting damage, personally, I would rather have the constant, free effect.
THANKS for that!! that gives me some other options to look at other than the builds out there. And yea, I will play around with bound armor vs absorb mag for sure! Also, wasn't aware pet had to be double barred...damnit......that's silly, but ah well.
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Porter_H✭✭✭Having to dual bar the pet (for the heal) uses up bar space. I run encase some on my Sorc Tank.... all depends on what I'm doing. Double S/B I have room for it but if I use a lightning staff backbar I use WoE instead.
I tried the Matriarch instead of the Clanfear for runs with 3 DDs but it's only slightly larger heal then vigor (and only affects 3 people) and has the same dual-bar issue.Edited by Porter_H on January 25, 2019 2:57PM0 -
Schattenfluegel✭✭✭✭The Problem with the sorc Talons is (if i remember correctly), they can miss the target...in PvP AND PvE.
Dark Deal is very very strong on the SorcTank, but you have to find your Timewindow for it. You can use it on much bosses, if you activate it at the right time. Its basicly like the DK Ressourcereg, if you build on Magickareg - you can use Dark Deal very often. Even if you play with pets (which i dont).
My Sorctank is based on Magicka, Highelf - and it will be an Highelf after the patch.Edited by Schattenfluegel on January 25, 2019 3:09PMLove my Stamsorc0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Schattenfluegel wrote: »The Problem with the sorc Talons is (if i remember correctly), they can miss the target...in PvP AND PvE.
not sure what you mean "it misses", it is directional yes, you have to be looking at the mobs you what to use encase on, but that really ought no be a problem with it being 18 x 6 meters large, which is 108 square meters, talons has a radius of 6 meters, which is an area of 113.097 square meters, so they are basically the same size.Dark Deal is very very strong on the SorcTank, but you have to find your Timewindow for it. You can use it on much bosses, if you activate it at the right time. Its basicly like the DK Ressourcereg, if you build on Magickareg - you can use Dark Deal very often. Even if you play with pets (which i dont).
solid points. what makes you not use the clannfear?My Sorctank is based on Magicka, Highelf - and it will be an Highelf after the patch.
tanks are hybrids, if you are not using both your resources, you are wasting your potential.
Health! I believe a tank needs the health and my pet heal is based off that. I an get resources from other places.
all tank ought to aim for 30-40k health and 20k resources, with a little bit more stam then mag, so you get stam back from orbs/shards for blocking.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 25, 2019 3:48PM3 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=107929
OP, this is my current loadout.
With the exception of Clannfear/Wall, the entire backbar is flex spots. Plenty room for encase + leash+ another skill although I would NOT use leash on trash pulls without dark deal.0331
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troomar✭✭✭✭You can check my build I use: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441925/jack-iprits-sorcerer-builds-collection-murkmire
I'm using both Restraining Prison and the synergy with Vigor (check the notes in my build).Yes.0 -
iam117✭✭✭Is your sorc tank magicka based or stamina based? I have been looking for more ways to utilise my StamSorc
my sorc tank has 33k HP, 25K stam, and 19K mag. Seems like a great split to me. You dont want to corner yourself into too little of either stat. Higher HP seems to be the think nowa days, I havent been in or completed anything past Vmol with a sorc tank so i have no idea what would be needed there HP wise.<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ok, trying out Sorc tank and its loads of fun. I went cruising the webs for build input and I noticed that none of the builds I found had them using Encase/ morph to Restraining Prison for a cc, very much like DK claws?
Is there a reason for this that I am not seeing....cost, etc.? Because they look like a good skill to use and would help fill those missing gaps of no CC (other than Time Stop and Caltrops) and then there is Silver Leash which works quite nice but a tad costly so use sparingly.
So yea, enlighten me to what I am missing or would a build using these be just fine?
For me personally I prefer blockade of frost to encase. A lot more utility (blockade keeps high uptime on backbar enchantment), less magicka cost, and maims the target. Not to mention it has a duration that roots after the initial cast.
Both are good options imho though. Encase root is instant and affects multiple targets simultaneously, plus gives vitality.Also, how tricky is Dark Deal to use? I read that its great but you have to be careful as you drop your block...so just a timing thing or not take it if to big a risk? Cheers!
Dark deal (or conversion) is 100% worth the risk. Timing can certainly be tricky, but your best bet is to use it directly after a boss' heavy attack, with some exceptions (Rilis XII on BC I sometimes uses the force orb directly after his heavy attack ie). The most recent change to it was highly benefiting for tanks, as resources now trickle in making timing it a bit less rigid to "low on resources."
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Schattenfluegel✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »not sure what you mean "it misses", it is directional yes, you have to be looking at the mobs you what to use encase on, but that really ought no be a problem with it being 18 x 6 meters large, which is 108 square meters, talons has a radius of 6 meters, which is an area of 113.097 square meters, so they are basically the same size.
Yeah, and they've missed the mobs last time i casted it on them. I was standing in the right direction, too. And that wasnt just one time, happens often.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »solid points. what makes you not use the clannfear?
Good Question, i am not interested in pet tanking, i guess. Sure Clannfear isnt bad with his heal and his spot...but it fells wrong.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »]
tanks are hybrids, if you are not using both your resources, you are wasting your potential.
Thats not what i said. I am playing Magicka Highelf to get Magicka for Dark Deal and Shields. But i always blocking with Stamina
Or....i am switching Magicka for Stamina
Love my Stamsorc0 -
TimX✭✭At the moment I got every class pretty good to work as a tank...although I not rly like the resource reg with ulty of the dk -> that's why I prefer warden, templar and nightblade but sorc does also makes fun...but that's a rly long other topic
some thing before
I play as imperial
With athronarc mundus
With 3 infused jewelry pieces 2 with shield cost and one with stamina cost resuction
...that works pretty good
I play with darkdeal but mostly not with balance because I don't like how the skill works and it isn't mostly needed because sorc has overall best stamina gain if u would compare it to the other classes and if dark deal is always aktive
So my frontbars look mostly like
Pierce armor, heroic slash then flex spot for conduit untaunded shield or the sorc armor thingy or restraining prision, then dark deal and the clannban
Ulti wise u could use the healing depression field on front bar
Back bar depends whether u want a staff or not
Silver leash or purge or ball of lightning, blockade or crushing shock or restraining shield, inner rage, hurricane or balance and the clannban
And of course warhorn
As normal for tank u have a lot of skill choices
Also u could use guard instead of 2 skills or vigor, speed buff, fighters guild circle and sometimes very helpful healing orbs
I sustain even without balance pretty good and I just use regular cheap potions, mostly the stamina ones... I switch sometimes to the magica ones in the fight...
but u need to take care when to press dark deal but keep in mind it does provide a buff to ur group members for 20 sec...so use it every 20 sec or often
Cp wise I prefere
Green:
100 shadow ward
48 tumbling
47 acanist
36 warlord
39 sprinter
Blue:
100 blessed
100 elfborn
70 precise strikes
ReD:
81 ironclad
56 hardy
56 elemental defender
37 thick skinned
10 heavy armor focus
19 quick recovery
In terms of monster set I recommend lord Warden so u hit 33k resis on both physical and magical
or u need to adjust a lot resis with other sets
In terms of other gear u can run everything u want with lighning or frost staff backbar or 2 shield and sword
But keep in mind lightning is better for off balance and vulnerability
But try to activate crusher with the two sword and bord skills...and on back at best is with blockade the weakening glyph... At least at the moment before the next patch...
Ah and attribute points:
8 magicka
46 health
10 Stamina
I'm vamp rank 4
And use tri stat food with nearly all the time cheap potions (mostly stamina ones)
In some situations mostly as off tank u can swap out the pet and use vigor, dark deal and orbs to support the ground heal urself... If powerfull assault is needed
And keep in mind that the untaunded shield is pretty strong but sometimes if u get rly hard hits with a lot of single dmg bound armaments performs very well also it does mitigate over a certain time and not a fixed amount like the untaunded shield
...so just try it and compare what works best for u
Only problem on sorcs is that most of the time u don't have any or good heals on ur grp
It's something more selfish and tanky as a class, because the heal of the clannban is rly rly good...despite the 5k cost of it so use it in good times to save ur magicka
Btw I'm tested my tank builds in most of the veteran trials as offtank and main tank ... Not all with every char so far but I can tell when the build works and when not that good -> Should work for vAA axes( despite I would equip the sword and shield ulti and in emergency use dark deal while it is active if u run out of stamina- just safer), Hrc main tank, and vHofEdited by TimX on January 25, 2019 11:10PM0 -
Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=107929
OP, this is my current loadout.
With the exception of Clannfear/Wall, the entire backbar is flex spots. Plenty room for encase + leash+ another skill although I would NOT use leash on trash pulls without dark deal.
Do you use the altar to give some heals to group?0 -
Schattenfluegel✭✭✭✭@TimX Why do you play vigor on a Sorctank? It doesnt make sense, because you can go Hurricane/Magickamorph (this is the Class Armorbuff) + Critsurge. Its better Healing than vigor...you can play Swarmmother as Monsterset instead of Silverleash.Love my Stamsorc0
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TimX✭✭@Schattenfluegel I do just use vigor in certain fights like the assembly general for powerful assault
Sure u can run swarmmother but u lose then around 6k resistance again lord Watson that provides ur group also resistance... 4k should be around 8% dmg mitigation for grp
And if u run the clannbann u don't need an additional healing skill for urself
Some fights require u to use specific skills and tanking is more of grp support then self healing... In general I would never use vigor as my own heal...its just to weakEdited by TimX on January 26, 2019 9:57AM0 -
Schattenfluegel✭✭✭✭Mhmm i already have full cap ressis with my sorctank - well ok, its magicka shield tank.
Clannbann needs also two slots, dont know, critsurge and hurricane are very good @multiple targets like axes, atros etc. Hurricane can procc sets and take them on the other bar too....and the aoe is a natural dmg spot. At least, surge needs one slot. You dont hit all DDs with Warden Monsterset, too. They have to stand in the Range.
I would never use Vigor too, i am wearing the yokeda set which heal if you block. Sustain works over Dark Deal, Meditate.Edited by Schattenfluegel on January 26, 2019 10:08AMLove my Stamsorc0 -
TimX✭✭@Schattenfluegel
The think with sets is that selfish sets like yojeda do have seldom use...in hard times I would stick to plague doctor for great hp pool
but normally:
Ebon +alkosh/torugs/pa
Torigs+ alkosh
Plague doctor + almost/torugs
Akaviri/ galenwe is as well also an good option an provides grp support0 -
Schattenfluegel✭✭✭✭Are you really sure about that?
As a tank, selfish sets arent bad. They give you a higher chance to survive - and that is, what you really want by tanking bosses. A dead tank is a group wipe (normally).
There are only two points, you would go for support sets, experience and dd buffing. Its not because yokeda is selfish or something else, and it depends on the class you play. I dont play with a high HP Pool and i am doing fine - on my sorctank and on my DK Tank. I am more around 30-40k Health and this is also working in all Vettrials + HM, with and without the Supportsets.
Actually i play an old Ultiregbuild, and it works. Metatanking is only ONE way to tank, but there are more.
Edited by Schattenfluegel on January 26, 2019 1:00PMLove my Stamsorc1 -
Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭Schattenfluegel wrote: »Are you really sure about that?
Actually i play an old Ultiregbuild, and it works. Metatanking is only ONE way to tank, but there are more.
AMEN!! btw...whats Ultiregbuild ?
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Schattenfluegel✭✭✭✭
Its an old DK Tank Build, not a strong as it was before Morrowindrelease.Love my Stamsorc0 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Encase is not used a lot because of the way it is targeted. Talons are an AoE around you, encase is only in front of you. In many fights mobs generally move around you so you will be unable to keep them all stuck with encase, even with silver leash pulls.
There are certain fights however, like moonhunterkeep hm, where encase is very powerful.Jo'Khaljor0