Sorc tank question

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Joxer61
Joxer61
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Ok, trying out Sorc tank and its loads of fun. I went cruising the webs for build input and I noticed that none of the builds I found had them using Encase/ morph to Restraining Prison for a cc, very much like DK claws?
Is there a reason for this that I am not seeing....cost, etc.? Because they look like a good skill to use and would help fill those missing gaps of no CC (other than Time Stop and Caltrops) and then there is Silver Leash which works quite nice but a tad costly so use sparingly.
So yea, enlighten me to what I am missing or would a build using these be just fine? Also, how tricky is Dark Deal to use? I read that its great but you have to be careful as you drop your block...so just a timing thing or not take it if to big a risk? Cheers!
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Encase is an AOE immobilize, so you stack with silver leash and hold the mobs still with encase, for your DPS to safely burn them down.


    What do your bars currently look like?
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 25, 2019 7:56AM
  • Alucu
    Alucu
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    Encase is sorc's talons! Dark deal-spell simmetry is a good combo too.
    Building communities since 2017

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  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Encase is an AOE immobilize, so you stack with silver leash and hold the mobs still with encase, for your DPS to safely burn them down.


    What do your bars currently look like?

    I only just started so nothing but 1h/s skills and pet for now.
  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    I don't use talons on my dk, and talons have an overwhelming advantage over encase. -15% damage to the enemies. you can still use it if you don't have other skills you want on your bars.
  • Alucu
    Alucu
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    zvavi wrote: »
    I don't use talons on my dk, and talons have an overwhelming advantage over encase. -15% damage to the enemies. you can still use it if you don't have other skills you want on your bars.

    People tend to not use them a lot prioritizing things like engulfing flames or blockade for crusher (now probably mandatory with the 1 handed enchant changes). However, there are fights in which the talons become pretty much a necessity though, like zaj hassa in vMoL, encase could also work in these scenarios since you will also be able to permaroot unlike other classes or abilities like frost blockade (not guaranteed proc) or time stop (Stun cc cooldown)
    Building communities since 2017

    Para los Jugadores Hispanos: LA FUNDACION GM
    For advanced PvE: DRAGON VOID Officer
    For advanced PvP: PROJECT NOVA Member
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    zvavi wrote: »
    I don't use talons on my dk, and talons have an overwhelming advantage over encase. -15% damage to the enemies. you can still use it if you don't have other skills you want on your bars.

    Talons also give a synergy. Encase does give a nice advantage to you though, +30% healing received, for up to 8 seconds. That is pretty good.
    Joxer61 wrote: »

    I only just started so nothing but 1h/s skills and pet for now.

    Not really specific. Only 2 skills from the S/b line that are worth running for a pve tank, most of the time are heroic slash and Pierce armor, though it has been recently found out that the 8% damage reduction from absorb magic is addative and not multiplicative with block, making it a lot more attractive.

  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Talons also give a synergy. Encase does give a nice advantage to you though, +30% healing received, for up to 8 seconds. That is pretty good.

    Not really specific. Only 2 skills from the S/b line that are worth running for a pve tank, most of the time are heroic slash and Pierce armor, though it has been recently found out that the 8% damage reduction from absorb magic is addative and not multiplicative with block, making it a lot more attractive.

    yea sorry, my bad, should have been clearer. Meant I have just the 2 skills, meaning pierce and slash and yea will be slotting absorb magic as well! Also, Bound Armor no longer a thing? Again, all of this is coming from builds I could find, might not be what people are actually using, thus my post. Cheers!
  • Dumac
    Dumac
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    Is your sorc tank magicka based or stamina based? I have been looking for more ways to utilise my StamSorc
    Edited by Dumac on January 25, 2019 12:54PM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Joxer61 wrote: »

    yea sorry, my bad, should have been clearer. Meant I have just the 2 skills, meaning pierce and slash and yea will be slotting absorb magic as well! Also, Bound Armor no longer a thing? Again, all of this is coming from builds I could find, might not be what people are actually using, thus my post. Cheers!

    Bound armor is also addative, with both block and absorb magic, though I am not sure you would have enough space on your bars with the pet having to be double barred.

    If I was to make ansorc tank, I suppose I would have the bars look like this-

    Front bar s/b

    Absorb magic, clannfear, boundless storm, heroic slash, Pierce armor, ulti absorption field/spell wall

    Back bar ice staff

    Dark deal, clannfear, restraining prison, silver leash, wall of elements, ulti warhorn.

    This has everything you need. Maybe swap boundless and dark deal. You could try bound armor instead of absorb magic, 36% increase in damage for 3 seconds for 4k mag or 3.5k Stam, depending on your morph choice. Depends on how confident you are at predicting damage, personally, I would rather have the constant, free effect.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 25, 2019 1:08PM
  • Joxer61
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    Bound armor is also addative, with both block and absorb magic, though I am not sure you would have enough space on your bars with the pet having to be double barred.

    If I was to make ansorc tank, I suppose I would have the bars look like this-

    Front bar s/b

    Absorb magic, clannfear, boundless storm, heroic slash, Pierce armor, ulti absorption field/spell wall

    Back bar ice staff

    Dark deal, clannfear, restraining prison, silver leash, wall of elements, ulti warhorn.

    This has everything you need. Maybe swap boundless and dark deal. You could try bound armor instead of absorb magic, 36% increase in damage for 3 seconds for 4k mag or 3.5k Stam, depending on your morph choice. Depends on how confident you are at predicting damage, personally, I would rather have the constant, free effect.

    THANKS for that!! that gives me some other options to look at other than the builds out there. And yea, I will play around with bound armor vs absorb mag for sure! Also, wasn't aware pet had to be double barred...damnit......that's silly, but ah well. ;)
  • Joxer61
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    Dumac wrote: »
    Is your sorc tank magicka based or stamina based? I have been looking for more ways to utilise my StamSorc

    Health! I believe a tank needs the health and my pet heal is based off that. I an get resources from other places. ;)
  • Porter_H
    Porter_H
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    Having to dual bar the pet (for the heal) uses up bar space. I run encase some on my Sorc Tank.... all depends on what I'm doing. Double S/B I have room for it but if I use a lightning staff backbar I use WoE instead.


    I tried the Matriarch instead of the Clanfear for runs with 3 DDs but it's only slightly larger heal then vigor (and only affects 3 people) and has the same dual-bar issue.
    Edited by Porter_H on January 25, 2019 2:57PM
  • Schattenfluegel
    Schattenfluegel
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    The Problem with the sorc Talons is (if i remember correctly), they can miss the target...in PvP AND PvE.

    Dark Deal is very very strong on the SorcTank, but you have to find your Timewindow for it. You can use it on much bosses, if you activate it at the right time. Its basicly like the DK Ressourcereg, if you build on Magickareg - you can use Dark Deal very often. Even if you play with pets (which i dont).

    My Sorctank is based on Magicka, Highelf - and it will be an Highelf after the patch.
    Edited by Schattenfluegel on January 25, 2019 3:09PM
    Love my Stamsorc
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    The Problem with the sorc Talons is (if i remember correctly), they can miss the target...in PvP AND PvE.

    not sure what you mean "it misses", it is directional yes, you have to be looking at the mobs you what to use encase on, but that really ought no be a problem with it being 18 x 6 meters large, which is 108 square meters, talons has a radius of 6 meters, which is an area of 113.097 square meters, so they are basically the same size.

    Dark Deal is very very strong on the SorcTank, but you have to find your Timewindow for it. You can use it on much bosses, if you activate it at the right time. Its basicly like the DK Ressourcereg, if you build on Magickareg - you can use Dark Deal very often. Even if you play with pets (which i dont).

    solid points. what makes you not use the clannfear?
    My Sorctank is based on Magicka, Highelf - and it will be an Highelf after the patch.

    tanks are hybrids, if you are not using both your resources, you are wasting your potential.


    Joxer61 wrote: »

    Health! I believe a tank needs the health and my pet heal is based off that. I an get resources from other places. ;)

    all tank ought to aim for 30-40k health and 20k resources, with a little bit more stam then mag, so you get stam back from orbs/shards for blocking.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 25, 2019 3:48PM
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=107929

    OP, this is my current loadout.

    With the exception of Clannfear/Wall, the entire backbar is flex spots. Plenty room for encase + leash+ another skill although I would NOT use leash on trash pulls without dark deal.
    0331
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  • troomar
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    You can check my build I use: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441925/jack-iprits-sorcerer-builds-collection-murkmire
    I'm using both Restraining Prison and the synergy with Vigor (check the notes in my build).
    Yes.
  • iam117
    iam117
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    Dumac wrote: »
    Is your sorc tank magicka based or stamina based? I have been looking for more ways to utilise my StamSorc

    my sorc tank has 33k HP, 25K stam, and 19K mag. Seems like a great split to me. You dont want to corner yourself into too little of either stat. Higher HP seems to be the think nowa days, I havent been in or completed anything past Vmol with a sorc tank so i have no idea what would be needed there HP wise.
    <Liv3mind>
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    Snowflake Patrol
  • DocFrost72
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Ok, trying out Sorc tank and its loads of fun. I went cruising the webs for build input and I noticed that none of the builds I found had them using Encase/ morph to Restraining Prison for a cc, very much like DK claws?
    Is there a reason for this that I am not seeing....cost, etc.? Because they look like a good skill to use and would help fill those missing gaps of no CC (other than Time Stop and Caltrops) and then there is Silver Leash which works quite nice but a tad costly so use sparingly.
    So yea, enlighten me to what I am missing or would a build using these be just fine?

    For me personally I prefer blockade of frost to encase. A lot more utility (blockade keeps high uptime on backbar enchantment), less magicka cost, and maims the target. Not to mention it has a duration that roots after the initial cast.

    Both are good options imho though. Encase root is instant and affects multiple targets simultaneously, plus gives vitality.
    Also, how tricky is Dark Deal to use? I read that its great but you have to be careful as you drop your block...so just a timing thing or not take it if to big a risk? Cheers!

    Dark deal (or conversion) is 100% worth the risk. Timing can certainly be tricky, but your best bet is to use it directly after a boss' heavy attack, with some exceptions (Rilis XII on BC I sometimes uses the force orb directly after his heavy attack ie). The most recent change to it was highly benefiting for tanks, as resources now trickle in making timing it a bit less rigid to "low on resources."
  • Schattenfluegel
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    not sure what you mean "it misses", it is directional yes, you have to be looking at the mobs you what to use encase on, but that really ought no be a problem with it being 18 x 6 meters large, which is 108 square meters, talons has a radius of 6 meters, which is an area of 113.097 square meters, so they are basically the same size.

    Yeah, and they've missed the mobs last time i casted it on them. I was standing in the right direction, too. And that wasnt just one time, happens often.

    solid points. what makes you not use the clannfear?

    Good Question, i am not interested in pet tanking, i guess. Sure Clannfear isnt bad with his heal and his spot...but it fells wrong.
    ]
    tanks are hybrids, if you are not using both your resources, you are wasting your potential.

    Thats not what i said. I am playing Magicka Highelf to get Magicka for Dark Deal and Shields. But i always blocking with Stamina :) Or....i am switching Magicka for Stamina

    Love my Stamsorc
  • TimX
    TimX
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    At the moment I got every class pretty good to work as a tank...although I not rly like the resource reg with ulty of the dk -> that's why I prefer warden, templar and nightblade but sorc does also makes fun...but that's a rly long other topic

    some thing before
    I play as imperial
    With athronarc mundus
    With 3 infused jewelry pieces 2 with shield cost and one with stamina cost resuction
    ...that works pretty good

    I play with darkdeal but mostly not with balance because I don't like how the skill works and it isn't mostly needed because sorc has overall best stamina gain if u would compare it to the other classes and if dark deal is always aktive

    So my frontbars look mostly like
    Pierce armor, heroic slash then flex spot for conduit untaunded shield or the sorc armor thingy or restraining prision, then dark deal and the clannban
    Ulti wise u could use the healing depression field on front bar

    Back bar depends whether u want a staff or not
    Silver leash or purge or ball of lightning, blockade or crushing shock or restraining shield, inner rage, hurricane or balance and the clannban
    And of course warhorn

    As normal for tank u have a lot of skill choices
    Also u could use guard instead of 2 skills or vigor, speed buff, fighters guild circle and sometimes very helpful healing orbs

    I sustain even without balance pretty good and I just use regular cheap potions, mostly the stamina ones... I switch sometimes to the magica ones in the fight...
    but u need to take care when to press dark deal but keep in mind it does provide a buff to ur group members for 20 sec...so use it every 20 sec or often

    Cp wise I prefere
    Green:
    100 shadow ward
    48 tumbling
    47 acanist
    36 warlord
    39 sprinter
    Blue:
    100 blessed
    100 elfborn
    70 precise strikes
    ReD:
    81 ironclad
    56 hardy
    56 elemental defender
    37 thick skinned
    10 heavy armor focus
    19 quick recovery

    In terms of monster set I recommend lord Warden so u hit 33k resis on both physical and magical

    or u need to adjust a lot resis with other sets

    In terms of other gear u can run everything u want with lighning or frost staff backbar or 2 shield and sword

    But keep in mind lightning is better for off balance and vulnerability

    But try to activate crusher with the two sword and bord skills...and on back at best is with blockade the weakening glyph... At least at the moment before the next patch...

    Ah and attribute points:
    8 magicka
    46 health
    10 Stamina

    I'm vamp rank 4
    And use tri stat food with nearly all the time cheap potions (mostly stamina ones)

    In some situations mostly as off tank u can swap out the pet and use vigor, dark deal and orbs to support the ground heal urself... If powerfull assault is needed

    And keep in mind that the untaunded shield is pretty strong but sometimes if u get rly hard hits with a lot of single dmg bound armaments performs very well also it does mitigate over a certain time and not a fixed amount like the untaunded shield
    ...so just try it and compare what works best for u

    Only problem on sorcs is that most of the time u don't have any or good heals on ur grp
    It's something more selfish and tanky as a class, because the heal of the clannban is rly rly good...despite the 5k cost of it so use it in good times to save ur magicka

    Btw I'm tested my tank builds in most of the veteran trials as offtank and main tank ... Not all with every char so far but I can tell when the build works and when not that good -> Should work for vAA axes( despite I would equip the sword and shield ulti and in emergency use dark deal while it is active if u run out of stamina- just safer), Hrc main tank, and vHof
    Edited by TimX on January 25, 2019 11:10PM
  • Joxer61
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=107929

    OP, this is my current loadout.

    With the exception of Clannfear/Wall, the entire backbar is flex spots. Plenty room for encase + leash+ another skill although I would NOT use leash on trash pulls without dark deal.

    Do you use the altar to give some heals to group?
  • Schattenfluegel
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    @TimX Why do you play vigor on a Sorctank? It doesnt make sense, because you can go Hurricane/Magickamorph (this is the Class Armorbuff) + Critsurge. Its better Healing than vigor...you can play Swarmmother as Monsterset instead of Silverleash.
    Love my Stamsorc
  • TimX
    TimX
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    @Schattenfluegel I do just use vigor in certain fights like the assembly general for powerful assault
    Sure u can run swarmmother but u lose then around 6k resistance again lord Watson that provides ur group also resistance... 4k should be around 8% dmg mitigation for grp
    And if u run the clannbann u don't need an additional healing skill for urself

    Some fights require u to use specific skills and tanking is more of grp support then self healing... In general I would never use vigor as my own heal...its just to weak
    Edited by TimX on January 26, 2019 9:57AM
  • Schattenfluegel
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    Mhmm i already have full cap ressis with my sorctank - well ok, its magicka shield tank.

    Clannbann needs also two slots, dont know, critsurge and hurricane are very good @multiple targets like axes, atros etc. Hurricane can procc sets and take them on the other bar too....and the aoe is a natural dmg spot. At least, surge needs one slot. You dont hit all DDs with Warden Monsterset, too. They have to stand in the Range.

    I would never use Vigor too, i am wearing the yokeda set which heal if you block. Sustain works over Dark Deal, Meditate.
    Edited by Schattenfluegel on January 26, 2019 10:08AM
    Love my Stamsorc
  • TimX
    TimX
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    @Schattenfluegel
    The think with sets is that selfish sets like yojeda do have seldom use...in hard times I would stick to plague doctor for great hp pool

    but normally:
    Ebon +alkosh/torugs/pa
    Torigs+ alkosh
    Plague doctor + almost/torugs
    Akaviri/ galenwe is as well also an good option an provides grp support
  • Schattenfluegel
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    Are you really sure about that?

    As a tank, selfish sets arent bad. They give you a higher chance to survive - and that is, what you really want by tanking bosses. A dead tank is a group wipe (normally).


    There are only two points, you would go for support sets, experience and dd buffing. Its not because yokeda is selfish or something else, and it depends on the class you play. I dont play with a high HP Pool and i am doing fine - on my sorctank and on my DK Tank. I am more around 30-40k Health and this is also working in all Vettrials + HM, with and without the Supportsets.

    Actually i play an old Ultiregbuild, and it works. Metatanking is only ONE way to tank, but there are more.

    Edited by Schattenfluegel on January 26, 2019 1:00PM
    Love my Stamsorc
  • FrancisCrawford
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    Porter_H wrote: »

    I tried the Matriarch instead of the Clanfear for runs with 3 DDs but it's only slightly larger heal then vigor (and only affects 3 people) and has the same dual-bar issue.

    3? I think it's only 2, plus the Matriarch herself.
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Are you really sure about that?



    Actually i play an old Ultiregbuild, and it works. Metatanking is only ONE way to tank, but there are more.

    AMEN!! btw...whats Ultiregbuild ? ;)
  • Schattenfluegel
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    Joxer61 wrote: »

    AMEN!! btw...whats Ultiregbuild ? ;)

    Its an old DK Tank Build, not a strong as it was before Morrowindrelease.
    Love my Stamsorc
  • Ahzek
    Ahzek
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    Encase is not used a lot because of the way it is targeted. Talons are an AoE around you, encase is only in front of you. In many fights mobs generally move around you so you will be unable to keep them all stuck with encase, even with silver leash pulls.
    There are certain fights however, like moonhunterkeep hm, where encase is very powerful.
    Jo'Khaljor
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