Wrecking Blow - make it instant!

Rukzadlithau

Wrecking Blow

Rework this morph of Uppercut into an instant cast ability: Reduce the damage and cost accordingly.

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The Empower element already suggests this is the way it should work. This would also add some new flavour to main 2h for most classes in PvP and PvE alike, as many lack a consistent spammable in these layouts.

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@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_Gilliam

Ladislao

When Crushing Weapon appeared, I thought that I would never see such topics again.

Vapirko

It’s high time this happened. This would definitely help shift away from the DW meta in PvP. It would also help classes like Stam sorc (if it can be helped rn) and also Stam DK.

Ladislao wrote: »

When Crushing Weapon appeared, I thought that I would never see such topics again.

Everyone hates this skill.

Rukzadlithau

Ladislao wrote: »

When Crushing Weapon appeared, I thought that I would never see such topics again.

Crushing Weapon is very inconvenient to many people and locked behind a Chapter‘s
Guild skill line. This should rather be an additional choice and not a piegonhole.

Lord_Eomer

No it would be a mess in BG!

Vapirko

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

No it would be a mess in BG!

How so? This is wrecking blow, not dizzying swing. It would be no different from any other instant cast spammable.

BaylorCorvette

I would love to see this change. StamSorc could use it. The class is losing more and more each patch.

Vesper_BR

Agree! Up for the topic!

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

Sure, but you will have to balance the damage the cc or the cost cause an instant dizzying as it is atm will be broken
Edit: Didn't read the second part of the op's arguement about the empower morph so I guess my point is invalid. My bad.

Mettaricana

Stam sorc needs a buff i miss my two hander before all the nerfs that ruined it.

Also if not instant cut the cast time in half at the very least. Its only high damage spammable keeps getting the shaft every update first it was too strong pvpers cried pve got nerfed for it now its so weak no one uses it other than to spam execute in bgs.. buff the dmg of wrecking make it cast faster! we lose a huge chunk of crit and dmg not having a crit based weapon and only able to put on 1 enchant compensate 2h with a chunk more raw damage and faster attacks.

Lord_Eomer

Vapirko wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

No it would be a mess in BG!

How so? This is wrecking blow, not dizzying swing. It would be no different from any other instant cast spammable.

It really hits harder, it should lost half damage then can be instant.

TheYKcid

Agreed. People have been asking for this for ages and quite rightly so. Almost nobody uses Wrecking Blow as it is; it's a wasted morph option that's holding-back the entire 2H line.

If you dropped the tooltip to 60%, it would be almost perfectly equalised with Low Slash, Flying Blade, and Force Pulse—all of which are very standard instant spammables from other weapon lines. Leaving the empower would also be reasonable, since all those other spammables have secondary effects, too.

A 2970 base stam cost would be identical to Low Slash & Flying Blade, so that's a good place to start (Pulse is slightly lower at 2700, ostensibly because the destro line doesn't have any cost-reduction passives).

Let's compare this to Surprise Attack, the gold-standard for instant melee spammables—SA would do 11% more damage, cost nearly 700 less stam per cast, while also providing Major Fracture as a debuff. So clearly this version of Wrecking would be far from overperforming.

This change would instantly make 2H an attractive but fair option as a mainbar for classes without a spammable, instead of the dedicated Rally/FM-stick it mostly is right now.

TBois

Lol at the people here who cant differentiate wrecking blow with dizzying swing

Ragnaroek93

I agree. Rapid Strikes and Snipe could get a similar treatment as well.

TBois

It would make this stam sorc combo not so clunky

https://youtu.be/gi2jR5drpdU

As is it is not a reliable combo to lean on.

Itzmichi

Buzo wrote: »

Wrecking Blow

Rework this morph of Uppercut into an instant cast ability: Reduce the damage and cost accordingly.

---

The Empower element already suggests this is the way it should work. This would also add some new flavour to main 2h for most classes in PvP and PvE alike, as many lack a consistent spammable in these layouts.

---

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_Gilliam

You can probably count back from 29292 million an this still would not happen. Can imaging all the spamers instagib everybody then. Definitely the last thing the game needs.

TBois

Itsmichi wrote: »

Buzo wrote: »

Wrecking Blow

Rework this morph of Uppercut into an instant cast ability: Reduce the damage and cost accordingly.

---

The Empower element already suggests this is the way it should work. This would also add some new flavour to main 2h for most classes in PvP and PvE alike, as many lack a consistent spammable in these layouts.

---

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_Gilliam

You can probably count back from 29292 million an this still would not happen. Can imaging all the spamers instagib everybody then. Definitely the last thing the game needs.

How will they instagib with reduced damage? OP says, "reduce the damage and cost accorsingly."

Rukzadlithau

Itsmichi wrote: »

You can probably count back from 29292 million an this still would not happen. Can imaging all the spamers instagib everybody then. Definitely the last thing the game needs.

^

TBois wrote: »

Lol at the people here who cant differentiate wrecking blow with dizzying swing

Mettaricana

Buzo wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

When Crushing Weapon appeared, I thought that I would never see such topics again.

Crushing Weapon is very inconvenient to many people and locked behind a Chapter‘s
Guild skill line. This should rather be an additional choice and not a piegonhole.

Crushing just sucks... give it a sorta major brutality effect that buffs dmg rather than wep or spell dmg and let it have a duration that jut adds to all dmg skills atleast lighy and heavy for like 30 secs nerf smg a bit so we not spamming back to back 40k light attacks

Rukzadlithau

@ZOS_RobGarrett
Would be nice to see people actually having more flexibility on stamina builds with such a simple and long requested change.

Twohothardware

Very few run Dizzying Swing any more in PvP because of how inconsistent this skill has become in the lag and how easy it is to just block or roll dodge or even simply walk forward to evade this incredibly telegraphed skill. And Wrecking Blow, it's even worse now with the changes to Empower than it was when nobody was using it before. Wrecking Blow hasn't been used since the time when it had the knockdown CC that Dizzying Swing does now.

I'm all for whatever gets rid of the cast time on this skill. Lower damage, higher cost, whatever. This is not a functioning Class spammable in it's current form. It's only effective against low skill PvP potatoes that don't move out of the way and it's not being used at all in PvE end-game.

Rukzadlithau

And the Dizzying Swing morph urgently needs to be reworked so it can‘t be abort as easylie anymore.

Kadoin

Twohothardware wrote: »

Very few run Dizzying Swing any more in PvP because of how inconsistent this skill has become in the lag and how easy it is to just block or roll dodge or even simply walk forward to evade this incredibly telegraphed skill. And Wrecking Blow, it's even worse now with the changes to Empower than it was when nobody was using it before. Wrecking Blow hasn't been used since the time when it had the knockdown CC that Dizzying Swing does now.

I'm all for whatever gets rid of the cast time on this skill. Lower damage, higher cost, whatever. This is not a functioning Class spammable in it's current form. It's only effective against low skill PvP potatoes that don't move out of the way and it's not being used at all in PvE end-game.

Even instant it would still be easily dodged because its predictable. There will still need to be an animation and when that happens, anyone with a brain will dodge if it still has its stun component. My guess is that ZOS will add a delay to the skill damage like every other stun in the game, but make it appear instant.

Thorstienn

Please dont change this. I use it, plenty do. We use it cause we like 2 handers and dont worry about squeezing the tiniest DPS increase out of everything.
The ability, feels right.
You say you want this change so it can compete with DW? Why? If it becomes better, then 2h will just be the new meta and everyone will complain about DW not being good enough anymore.
Or (more likely) it will barely change 2h dps at all, so meta won't use it as its "useless" because they can pull.more with DW.
And ZoS, maybe revert your OP light attack changes, so people stop complaining about every cast time ability in the game.

dsalter

Thorstienn wrote: »

Please dont change this. I use it, plenty do. We use it cause we like 2 handers and dont worry about squeezing the tiniest DPS increase out of everything.
The ability, feels right.
You say you want this change so it can compete with DW? Why? If it becomes better, then 2h will just be the new meta and everyone will complain about DW not being good enough anymore.
Or (more likely) it will barely change 2h dps at all, so meta won't use it as its "useless" because they can pull.more with DW.
And ZoS, maybe revert your OP light attack changes, so people stop complaining about every cast time ability in the game.

wait so you'd rather a slower swinging ability that deals less damage as well as it leaving you upen to bashes and inturrupts that something you can weave into a true rotation...? sounds like you just enjoy spamming 1 1 1 1 1 win

Rukzadlithau

Thorstienn wrote: »

Please dont change this. I use it, plenty do. We use it cause we like 2 handers and dont worry about squeezing the tiniest DPS increase out of everything.
The ability, feels right.
You say you want this change so it can compete with DW? Why? If it becomes better, then 2h will just be the new meta and everyone will complain about DW not being good enough anymore.
Or (more likely) it will barely change 2h dps at all, so meta won't use it as its "useless" because they can pull.more with DW.
And ZoS, maybe revert your OP light attack changes, so people stop complaining about every cast time ability in the game.

Not „plenty“ of people use it in the context you put it. I never said I want it to compete with DW. What I want is more build flexibility and viability.

As far as I understand you’re contra this change, because you think this would possibly make it the go to option for dps and remove it from the special snowflake status it currently has in PvE. Don‘t worry, you can still keep on useing Dizzying Swing if you‘re in love with the cast time, after all you don‘t worry about the tiniest dps increase, right?

Even after my suggestion, 2h won‘t dethrone DW for PvE dps, there‘s too much lacking: Crit from daggers, generally higher ability cost, less damage oriented passives etc.

Thorstienn

Wow. So as I have a differing opinion to @dsalter and @Buzo I'm just noob spamming, special snowflake?

I'm not getting "interrupted" as i use wrecking blow in PvE not PvP, and i am weaving into a rotation in order to take advantage of empower and that's too many 1 spams as I need to reapply my DoTs, like any other spammable in the game.

Pretty sure I used plenty in the exact context I wanted... I didn't say most, majority, etc. I said plenty; enough people use it that it doesn't necessarily require a rework so that some people MIGHT use the new version.

I'm against the change as I feel it's the only "powerful" attack 2h has. I dont care if 2h becomes meta, I'll still use it on my stamsorc and stamden, just as I'll still use DW on my stamplar and stamdk.

I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind, which is fine. Just wanted to put my opinion in, in the off chance the devs decide to read this and think about doing it.

dsalter

Thorstienn wrote: »

Wow. So as I have a differing opinion to @dsalter and @Buzo I'm just noob spamming, special snowflake?

I'm not getting "interrupted" as i use wrecking blow in PvE not PvP, and i am weaving into a rotation in order to take advantage of empower and that's too many 1 spams as I need to reapply my doors, like any other spammable in the game.

Pretty sure I used plenty in the exact context I wanted... I didn't say most, majority, etc. I said plenty; enough people use it that it doesn't necessarily require a rework so that some people MIGHT use the new version.

I'm against the change as I feel it's the only "powerful" attack 2h has. I dont care if 2h becomes meta, I'll still use it on my stamsorc and stamden, just as I'll still use DW on my stamplar and stamdk.

I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind, which is fine. Just wanted to put my opinion in, in the off chance the devs decide to read this and think about doing it.

you called yourself a "noob spamming snowflake" so i'll just let you carry on thinking i did.
the thing is the way current wrecking works is you HAVE to spam it, weaving it only allows a simple light attack at the end of every cast and guess what? that weave is actually COSTING you dps, not gaining. it might generate one ulti per LA but the thing is your losing dps by doing so.

by being instant it becomes more flexible and allows you to truely weave it into a rotation and also opening up said rotations with debuffs in them for enemies speeding up other group members damage as well.

Thorstienn

dsalter wrote: »

Thorstienn wrote: »

Wow. So as I have a differing opinion to @dsalter and @Buzo I'm just noob spamming, special snowflake?

I'm not getting "interrupted" as i use wrecking blow in PvE not PvP, and i am weaving into a rotation in order to take advantage of empower and that's too many 1 spams as I need to reapply my doors, like any other spammable in the game.

Pretty sure I used plenty in the exact context I wanted... I didn't say most, majority, etc. I said plenty; enough people use it that it doesn't necessarily require a rework so that some people MIGHT use the new version.

I'm against the change as I feel it's the only "powerful" attack 2h has. I dont care if 2h becomes meta, I'll still use it on my stamsorc and stamden, just as I'll still use DW on my stamplar and stamdk.

I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind, which is fine. Just wanted to put my opinion in, in the off chance the devs decide to read this and think about doing it.

you called yourself a "noob spamming snowflake" so i'll just let you carry on thinking i did.
the thing is the way current wrecking works is you HAVE to spam it, weaving it only allows a simple light attack at the end of every cast and guess what? that weave is actually COSTING you dps, not gaining. it might generate one ulti per LA but the thing is your losing dps by doing so.

by being instant it becomes more flexible and allows you to truely weave it into a rotation and also opening up said rotations with debuffs in them for enemies speeding up other group members damage as well.

I'm confused about what your saying here. If you dont weave a light attack after wrecking blow, your wasting the empower.
What you're describing is more how wrecking blow worked before summerset, where it would "empower" itself.

dsalter

Thorstienn wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Thorstienn wrote: »

Wow. So as I have a differing opinion to @dsalter and @Buzo I'm just noob spamming, special snowflake?

I'm not getting "interrupted" as i use wrecking blow in PvE not PvP, and i am weaving into a rotation in order to take advantage of empower and that's too many 1 spams as I need to reapply my doors, like any other spammable in the game.

Pretty sure I used plenty in the exact context I wanted... I didn't say most, majority, etc. I said plenty; enough people use it that it doesn't necessarily require a rework so that some people MIGHT use the new version.

I'm against the change as I feel it's the only "powerful" attack 2h has. I dont care if 2h becomes meta, I'll still use it on my stamsorc and stamden, just as I'll still use DW on my stamplar and stamdk.

I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind, which is fine. Just wanted to put my opinion in, in the off chance the devs decide to read this and think about doing it.

you called yourself a "noob spamming snowflake" so i'll just let you carry on thinking i did.
the thing is the way current wrecking works is you HAVE to spam it, weaving it only allows a simple light attack at the end of every cast and guess what? that weave is actually COSTING you dps, not gaining. it might generate one ulti per LA but the thing is your losing dps by doing so.

by being instant it becomes more flexible and allows you to truely weave it into a rotation and also opening up said rotations with debuffs in them for enemies speeding up other group members damage as well.

I'm confused about what your saying here. If you dont weave a light attack after wrecking blow, your wasting the empower.
What you're describing is more how wrecking blow worked before summerset, where it would "empower" itself.

i'll dig around for the information of what i ment, someone else did the math and basically wrecking is more of a loss if you weave in light attacks due to how dumb the system works

usmcjdking

It doesn't need to be made instant, and I strongly encourage to move away from making it instant.

It could use a bit of an animation tweaking to make the animation more consistent, and you could remove any to-hit checks except the final to-hit check.

The skill really just needs to be adjusted in it's damage/buffs due to the light attack DPS methodology..