[Update 21 ]"Core mantra of the game - freedom"

Hellviolin

I hope someone will forward this thread to developers

Silver_Strider

Personally, I feel that all races should have gotten the same treatment as Dunmer and Khajiit and become more open ended so they could be played however they wanted, even if it meant losing out on some of what made the race powerful in the 1st place.

zaria

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Personally, I feel that all races should have gotten the same treatment as Dunmer and Khajiit and become more open ended so they could be played however they wanted, even if it meant losing out on some of what made the race powerful in the 1st place.

Khajiit should be better at healing and tanking.
Yes that would make us an potato race
Still Dunmer and Khajiit would be very nerf resistant, so biz race for necromancer.

RogueShark

Hellviolin wrote: »

[*] I can't make a Khajiit - tank or healer (PvP/PvE doesn't matter). Khajiit has no passives for it and I have to choose another races to play or forget about high-end content.
If you didn't noticed requirements for the raids are quite strict.
[*] I have to create two different characters - templars! One for PvE and 2nd for PvP. Because I have to use different races to create effective builds!
[/list]
What freedom are we talking about?!

I've cleared every vet trial, vBRP, etc and DLC dungeon challenger achieves with a sorcerer khajiit healer... before we even get the tasty magicka bonuses.
As for raid "requirements"... it's not hard to find a group doing or progressing on end-game content who doesn't require the absolute meta. I didn't try very hard to find my current groups and they accept me for the meme I am.

IronWooshu

ecru wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Did you know one of the most knowledgeable tanks in the game uses a khajiit? Player skill and gear build determines whether or not they will be good at their role, Race helps but if a player is competent at their core, that is more than enough to pull them though any meaningful content.

The race you pick for a tank doesn't matter if you're a good player. On the other hand, picking a different race for stam or magicka dps can make a noticeable difference in dps or sustain.

There's no real freedom. If they wanted to give us the freedom to pick whatever race we wanted, they would have disconnected racial passives from races entirely, but they didn't.

@ecru disagree, here is the updated calculations for magicka and stamina so just say you are Nord like I am and want to play Magicka, you would still be able to reach 42,422 in the magicka pool whereas a Altmer and Breton will get you 45,490 .. now Altmer and Breton will be better magicka DPS for end game but the difference between the two for anything non leaderboards won't mean jack. You will be able to still pull your weight as a Magicka Nord as long as you're good on your rotations.

EDIT: Picture won't load but the link is

https://ibb.co/gTX7ZZc

Tigerseye

Totally agree.

What they say they're doing and what they are actually doing are totally different things.

sharquez wrote: »

Did you know one of the most knowledgeable tanks in the game uses a khajiit? Player skill and gear build determines whether or not they will be good at their role, Race helps but if a player is competent at their core, that is more than enough to pull them though any meaningful content.

That is nice, but it's also irrelevant.

Of course a really good player will overcome race disadvantages, to an extent.

However, we all know that he would be an even more effective tank if he also, obediently, picked the best race for tanking.

That is how min/maxing works, sadly.

Every little counts.

Not only that, but even if you are better than most of the other players of the OP race, most other people will not see you that way.

They will not see you as the maverick genius, who picked the race you preferred most and overcame any difficulties with your superior brains and/or ability.

They will see you as the idiot who can't even follow a guide and needs to "learn 2 play".

Nisekev

Freedom with 6 classes and racial passives favoring specific builds - yeah, right.

shaielzafine

AGREED. They identified the problem, they said they didn't like that one race has more advantage at doing some other things than others. Yet with the changes they want to implement, they just shuffled the racials around.They might as well just remove all racial passives or leave them alone if they won't fix the problem that they have already mentioned. I still won't be an optimal Breton stamina dps, redguard is still best for that, maybe dunmer now. I still won't be an optimal Nord healer, breton / high elf / argonian will still be better. Bosmer still won't be a better tank than before, although they buffed Nord and Imperials to be better tanks. What is being solved then? There's still no balance, things for people like me who bought race change token before just need to spend more money to race change again? It's a slap in the face to people who have something like 61 days in game for 1 character, that is now going to be underperforming "just because". What if I have multiple toons?

This is a balancing problem, especially with Argonian passives being too strong currently in PVP (for all roles) & PVE (esp. for tank / healer). However, why should we have to pay for it when there isn't even real balance? For class changes we get free respecs at the shrine in game, or for a small amount of gold. When they decide they want to nerf or buff class abilities we go to the shrine and that's it. For this race change, we have to go to the crown store if we have more than 1 character, and it conveniently got marked down on sale right as they announced the race changes. Race change tokens are digital items, they do not need to manufacture a physical good and they do not need to be producing more after the item is originally coded. It doesn't run out and it isn't limited time for ZOS.

AlienSlof

Hellviolin wrote: »

[*] I can't make a Khajiit - tank or healer (PvP/PvE doesn't matter). Khajiit has no passives for it and I have to choose another races to play or forget about high-end content.
If you didn't noticed requirements for the raids are quite strict.

This is nonsense.

My Khajiit healer regularly completes vet content without a problem. She is not the only high-end Khajiit healer either.

myskyrim26

Hellviolin wrote: »

Other "just for fun" passives like an Argonian's swimming or Khajiit's pocket-picking we can leave as they are. But, honestly, most of them are useless.

This! Passives should be for fun, just outlining the unique abilities of races. Not combat, though.

idk

The OP is very much incorrect.

Many high end raiders PvP on the same character they raid on. While some do have specific characters for PvP and others for PvE, many do not and do extremely well at both.

Also, there are not extremely high requirements for clearly high end content. Some groups have high requirements because they raid competitively, but there are many more that push even the more recent content that have much lighter restrictions. Even with a competitive guild I have seen a khatjiit heal vet trials when it was not a competitive run.

At first glance I am not keep on some details about the proposed changes, but more so because it limits some choices compared to what we have now.

mxxo

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Hellviolin wrote: »

Other "just for fun" passives like an Argonian's swimming or Khajiit's pocket-picking we can leave as they are. But, honestly, most of them are useless.

This! Passives should be for fun, just outlining the unique abilities of races. Not combat, though.

Agree. Right now it´s a mess.

Sergykid

requirements for raids aren't strict, the people who can't complete it are. Milk out every 1% power to finish the raid, because they can't otherwise

Merlight

CipherNine wrote: »

For example. Shalidor is said to be the greatest mage of the 1st era. Guess what he is a NORD! So the lore defense is baseless. Our characters are unique beings in the world so we should be able to be unique characters in the world for however we wish to be.

Shalidor is an outlier. He didn't become the greatest mage just because he got the same innate traits as every other Nord. If you want to play a great Nord mage, you need to be an outlier as well, otherwise the game would be full of Shalidor-wannabes. Show your great abilities without your passives carrying you.

iiYuki

"Play how you want... unless its not how we intended you to play in which case we'll nerf it!"
- ZO$

Facefister

Removing racial passives wont turn your 10k dps into 50k.

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

Hellviolin

Make the freedom real again!

SugaComa

Why not give hereditary passive or blood line passive

Example would be you choose Nord as your character you get "X" major bonus for bring a Nord

Next select lineage

Are you pure Nord both parents increase that major bonus

Or are you half breed Nord Father, Altmer Mother

This way you get "X" major bonus and "X" minor bonus.

Making race choices more interesting and tailorable to users

Hellviolin

SugaComa wrote: »

Why not give hereditary passive or blood line passive

Hard to balance. And looks quite strange

zaria

AlienSlof wrote: »

Hellviolin wrote: »

[*] I can't make a Khajiit - tank or healer (PvP/PvE doesn't matter). Khajiit has no passives for it and I have to choose another races to play or forget about high-end content.
If you didn't noticed requirements for the raids are quite strict.

This is nonsense.

My Khajiit healer regularly completes vet content without a problem. She is not the only high-end Khajiit healer either.

Healed most vet dlc on Khajiits.

RogueShark wrote: »

Hellviolin wrote: »

[*] I can't make a Khajiit - tank or healer (PvP/PvE doesn't matter). Khajiit has no passives for it and I have to choose another races to play or forget about high-end content.
If you didn't noticed requirements for the raids are quite strict.
[*] I have to create two different characters - templars! One for PvE and 2nd for PvP. Because I have to use different races to create effective builds!
[/list]
What freedom are we talking about?!

I've cleared every vet trial, vBRP, etc and DLC dungeon challenger achieves with a sorcerer khajiit healer... before we even get the tasty magicka bonuses.
As for raid "requirements"... it's not hard to find a group doing or progressing on end-game content who doesn't require the absolute meta. I didn't try very hard to find my current groups and they accept me for the meme I am.

This most raid groups has an dps requirement 30-40k dps.
So an Redguard magblade can join if he hit that number.
They might wand some class mix, and ask for various to wear specific gear for group effects.
And no you will not do competitive trials before spending an long time in progressive trial groups.

Far more impressed with sorcerer healer than Khajiit in vet trials. Sorc is an very nice dungeon healer but dislike them in normal trials and templar has more group utility.

Darkstorne

SugaComa wrote: »

Why not give hereditary passive or blood line passive

Example would be you choose Nord as your character you get "X" major bonus for bring a Nord

Next select lineage

Are you pure Nord both parents increase that major bonus

Or are you half breed Nord Father, Altmer Mother

This way you get "X" major bonus and "X" minor bonus.

Making race choices more interesting and tailorable to users

I think morphs for passives is an easier way to achieve something similar. Allows players choice in how their racials develop (so all races can have tank/healer/dps morphs somewhere) and makes use of all those skyshard points we’ve built up over the years of DLC and Chapter locations.

Hellviolin

Developers have to see this thread )