Stop asking for more Tokens

Krayl

For everyone arguing 'So what if your character is slightly less effective now!?!"

I will now direct your attention to in-game leaderboards.

Ladies and gentlemen, you may not partake in this aspect of it, but this game is competitive. It's not necessarily where I find my enjoyment of the game, but I did not implement leaderboards. ZOS did.

Not to mention that guilds running progressions and scores will demand the utmost productivity.

ZOS has created this. ZOS has decided to change things. ZOS should eat the zero-cost of letting everyone change their toons to whatever the heck they want.

OtarTheMad

Krayl wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Okay so I can see both sides of this argument and can agree that if you built your character on a certain race and build then this change can be frustrating but I am leaning more towards the other side.

You shouldn't chase best race for "X" because you will just end up getting annoyed every single DLC and burning out. I have a Imperial magicka templar (mostly melee) and he does just fine and stats are great too. This coming change will not change that. Just make whatever you want, honestly unless you're trying to be elite it won't matter you will still, most likely, hit 30k DPS (or be able to tank a dungeon no problem or heal one).

I almost burned out years ago chasing best race for a build, deleted a lot of characters (no tokens back then) and in the end it wasn't smart. This is a game and in reality you can do any race any build. This update really helps with that.

Plus none of these changes absolutely destroy any race, yes even Khajiit, and aren't final anyway. It'll be fine, if these changes went live as is it'd be a step towards balance imo.

None of these points illustrate why ZOS shouldn't give everyone more free race changes that cost them nothing. It literally has zero negative impact on anyone. Conversely the race changes do in fact have a small negative impact on a great deal of players. This is just more irrelevant information that misses the point entirely. Why anyone is against this is beyond me.

So far no one has made a single compelling argument about why we shouldn't get more tokens, besides "You're getting one, be happy it's so generous of them to even give you one free virtual service that literally costs them zero."

I am saying that they don't have to because either way, whatever race you choose, it won't matter. Plus some of the population won't be happy no matter what and also some players (like me) have all character slots full... so I should get 15 tokens for free even though I won't use them? (One per character I have read by others is what they want).

I am coming from a PvP point of view so take that for what it is worth. My point is either way you end up working on something with the gear/CP you choose. If you're an Altmer then you lower max magicka and focus on Health, stamina and resist. If you're an Imperial then you focus on magicka, magicka recovery and resist.

I know it won't hurt ZOS to do this, and who knows they might, but I am just saying as a PvPer it doesn't make a huge impact.

EDIT- I also think players are over reacting before they even test these changes. Some are so mad it seems that they are ready to leave, lol why? PTS isn't even starting for a few more days and nothing is set in stone (like always) It reminds me when players got so pissed off over Wardens (basing opinions on a photo of skill lines) before testing them and leaving the game and it ends up Wardens were bottom of the barrel. Let's test first and provide HELPFUL feedback.

Krayl

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I am saying that they don't have to because either way, whatever race you choose, it won't matter. Plus some of the population won't be happy no matter what and also some players (like me) have all character slots full... so I should get 15 tokens for free even though I won't use them? (One per character I have read by others is what they want).

I am coming from a PvP point of view so take that for what it is worth. My point is either way you end up working on something with the gear/CP you choose. If you're an Altmer then you lower max magicka and focus on Health, stamina and resist. If you're an Imperial then you focus on magicka, magicka recovery and resist.

I know it won't hurt ZOS to do this, and who knows they might, but I am just saying as a PvPer it doesn't make a huge impact.

Cool I'm glad it doesn't impact you, but saying 'it doesn't matter' when the game has leaderboards for pve content and end-game progression based content is just silly when you admit yourself it doesn't hurt ZOS.

This issue is exacerbated even more for the players that have the most characters, that play the most, that enjoy the most content - so you're exponentially punished the more you have invested money and time wise in the game.

This issue is likewise exacerbated for, once again, console players who don't have a plethora of mods to help them achieve max potential and have to work a lot harder and min-max a lot more to be as effective as the PC players that set the bar for the content.

Next argument please?

OtarTheMad

Krayl wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I am saying that they don't have to because either way, whatever race you choose, it won't matter. Plus some of the population won't be happy no matter what and also some players (like me) have all character slots full... so I should get 15 tokens for free even though I won't use them? (One per character I have read by others is what they want).

I am coming from a PvP point of view so take that for what it is worth. My point is either way you end up working on something with the gear/CP you choose. If you're an Altmer then you lower max magicka and focus on Health, stamina and resist. If you're an Imperial then you focus on magicka, magicka recovery and resist.

I know it won't hurt ZOS to do this, and who knows they might, but I am just saying as a PvPer it doesn't make a huge impact.

Cool I'm glad it doesn't impact you, but saying 'it doesn't matter' when the game has leaderboards for pve content and end-game progression based content is just silly when you admit yourself it doesn't hurt ZOS.

This issue is exacerbated even more for the players that have the most characters, that play the most, that enjoy the most content - so you're exponentially punished the more you have invested money and time wise in the game.

This issue is likewise exacerbated for, once again, console players who don't have a plethora of mods to help them achieve max potential and have to work a lot harder and min-max a lot more to be as effective as the PC players that set the bar for the content.

Next argument please?

I edited it to provide "next argument". Basically... this isn't on live, isn't set in stone. Let's test it when it hits PTS and help ZOS out. Overall the changes aren't that bad, I like them, maybe a few adjustments would be nice but people need to chill lol.

Krayl

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I edited it to provide "next argument". Basically... this isn't on live, isn't set in stone. Let's test it when it hits PTS and help ZOS out. Overall the changes aren't that bad, I like them, maybe a few adjustments would be nice but people need to chill lol.

I've already countered this point - whether or not the changes are good or bad is entirely meaningless to the debate. The fact of the matter is that they were changed. I'm overall happy with the changes in general. that does not mean one free change is adequate.

OtarTheMad

Krayl wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I edited it to provide "next argument". Basically... this isn't on live, isn't set in stone. Let's test it when it hits PTS and help ZOS out. Overall the changes aren't that bad, I like them, maybe a few adjustments would be nice but people need to chill lol.

I've already countered this point - whether or not the changes are good or bad is entirely meaningless to the debate. The fact of the matter is that they were changed. I'm overall happy with the changes in general. that does not mean one free change is adequate.

lmao, they weren't changed on live yet. They are going to be but are also able to be adjusted. You obviously have a right to be upset but the player base I am speaking to are the ones who are completely PO'd over this to the point of rage quitting when it can be adjusted in PTS.

Krayl

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I edited it to provide "next argument". Basically... this isn't on live, isn't set in stone. Let's test it when it hits PTS and help ZOS out. Overall the changes aren't that bad, I like them, maybe a few adjustments would be nice but people need to chill lol.

I've already countered this point - whether or not the changes are good or bad is entirely meaningless to the debate. The fact of the matter is that they were changed. I'm overall happy with the changes in general. that does not mean one free change is adequate.

lmao, they weren't changed on live yet. They are going to be but are also able to be adjusted. You obviously have a right to be upset but the player base I am speaking to are the ones who are completely PO'd over this to the point of rage quitting when it can be adjusted in PTS.

I have to believe your response isn't to my post because it looks like you read it in entirely the opposite way than it was posed.

tactx

frostz417 wrote: »

Okay so I should just buy 5 race change tokens for the 6 characters I have to change while I get 1 freebie because zos once again drastically changes everything?
***** no, this is too far. They’re changing things and making us pay for it, we are tired of constant big ass changes every **** patch and 99% of the changes are just massive nerfs. Consistent nerfs. That’s all zos does. I swear I’ll pitch a fit if I have to spend a bunch of money to race change 5 characters because zos just felt like nerfing races out of the blue.

Welcome to MMOs. You must be new in this space...

OtarTheMad

Krayl wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I edited it to provide "next argument". Basically... this isn't on live, isn't set in stone. Let's test it when it hits PTS and help ZOS out. Overall the changes aren't that bad, I like them, maybe a few adjustments would be nice but people need to chill lol.

I've already countered this point - whether or not the changes are good or bad is entirely meaningless to the debate. The fact of the matter is that they were changed. I'm overall happy with the changes in general. that does not mean one free change is adequate.

lmao, they weren't changed on live yet. They are going to be but are also able to be adjusted. You obviously have a right to be upset but the player base I am speaking to are the ones who are completely PO'd over this to the point of rage quitting when it can be adjusted in PTS.

I have to believe your response isn't to my post because it looks like you read it in entirely the opposite way than it was posed.

That is probably my bad lol. I was doing an emp push in a campaign so I have had very little sleep in three/four days.

Okay so I will just say this: ZOS promises to give us one token per character but then the changes made in PTS make the player base overall very happy and now they gave away all those tokens for nothing. It's a smarter business move to say yes to one per account but then if players still aren't happy by late PTS giving more.

Ohtimbar

I'll never understand why some customers love to carry water for corporations. Count me out. I will continue to complain because I have a good reason to. Don't like it? Don't read it.

Arrodisia

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I am saying that they don't have to because either way, whatever race you choose, it won't matter. Plus some of the population won't be happy no matter what and also some players (like me) have all character slots full... so I should get 15 tokens for free even though I won't use them? (One per character I have read by others is what they want).

I am coming from a PvP point of view so take that for what it is worth. My point is either way you end up working on something with the gear/CP you choose. If you're an Altmer then you lower max magicka and focus on Health, stamina and resist. If you're an Imperial then you focus on magicka, magicka recovery and resist.

I know it won't hurt ZOS to do this, and who knows they might, but I am just saying as a PvPer it doesn't make a huge impact.

Cool I'm glad it doesn't impact you, but saying 'it doesn't matter' when the game has leaderboards for pve content and end-game progression based content is just silly when you admit yourself it doesn't hurt ZOS.

This issue is exacerbated even more for the players that have the most characters, that play the most, that enjoy the most content - so you're exponentially punished the more you have invested money and time wise in the game.

This issue is likewise exacerbated for, once again, console players who don't have a plethora of mods to help them achieve max potential and have to work a lot harder and min-max a lot more to be as effective as the PC players that set the bar for the content.

Next argument please?

I edited it to provide "next argument". Basically... this isn't on live, isn't set in stone. Let's test it when it hits PTS and help ZOS out. Overall the changes aren't that bad, I like them, maybe a few adjustments would be nice but people need to chill lol.

It doesn't matter if it is live yet or not. It doesn't matter which races end in the front and it doesn't matter by how much. This will have an impact on meta and non meta players for different reasons. We agree with change but not the cost to the player base. The player base shouldn't have to foot the cost of balancing issues, which according to ZOS are already included in sub fees. So no. We don't want to be recharged for balancing mistakes.

frostz417

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

1. Of the players “complaining” about not enough race change tokens to fully respec their characters ... how many of you players are actually playing end game content where race change would even matter?

2. Of those “end game” players, how many of you are actually going to notice a difference in DPS, heals, or tanking ability when the patch drops?

Thought so.

The ignorance is astounding

Krayl

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Okay so I will just say this: ZOS promises to give us one token per character but then the changes made in PTS make the player base overall very happy and now they gave away all those tokens for nothing. It's a smarter business move to say yes to one per account but then if players still aren't happy by late PTS giving more.

I still don't understand what the resistance is to letting people change race as they want however the changes end up. However their need for handing out changes would, yes, be greatly reduced if they didn't change the order of BiS races for magicka DPS, healing, and tanking. If they had/will be balanced in such a way that didn't change the order of effectiveness for these roles, there would be much less demand for more tokens.

However, I'm still a firm believer that if you alter something in an MMO that the player has no path to change themselves without paying for a service (meaning via in-game means), and you already have a viable system in place for that change to happen (token system) there is no reason to not make that option available for a limited time to everyone it affects.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

Empathy and Compassion

Some players have invested many hours and many dollars or other foreign currencies into their avatars. Ethnic outfits, name creation,character creation and identified with their character on a personal level.

For some their avatar is a digital sibling.And these players care deeply for their creation/s.These proposed changes are very upsetting to them. I say if they want to ask for a thousand tokens let them ask. It hurts not to ask.

Porter_H

One token isn't enough!!! If we've paid for a race change in the past, we should be able to change that character to any race at the very minimum. I like the idea of adding race changes for bought character slots too. Wasn't cheap getting the 15 slots anyway.

BoneShatterer

bethessda//zenimaxc shoudl simply stop breaking the racials and the elitist should pipe down. they complain non stop and thats what gets the cash grab wheel going. also zenimax//betehsda needs to remvoe now the race change token period. as long as the min max army of crybabies that you guys are eso will be a cash grab. stop acting like donald biebers and you will see that bethesda will be the first one to eat in your hands .

BoneShatterer

usmcjdking wrote: »

Step 1) Roll meta/BIS/overperforming.
Step 2) Clamor for balance.
Step 3) Get balanced.
Step 4) Complain about getting balanced.
Step 5) Go back to step 1.

meta = how to give birth to a bunch of drama queens. thats where you dolts get hurt. stp caring about being the best of the best ofthe top of the barrel at dps. meta AKA how to keep a dog running for his tail strategy, is build exactly to keep you guys going in the cash shop

paulychan

Can I has token?

BoneShatterer

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of posts, we must ask that all posts be kept civil and constructive. Venting frustrations and voicing opinions are allowed, encouraged even, but should be kept within the rules. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

within the rules: as long as we dont bash on zenimaxand bethgesda? xD

Lab3360

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of posts, we must ask that all posts be kept civil and constructive. Venting frustrations and voicing opinions are allowed, encouraged even, but should be kept within the rules. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Close this topic please. A topic ordering people to stop asking Developer for items can only end 1 way.

Please close this topic.

OtarTheMad

Just lock this, not constructive anymore sadly.

Arrodisia

The topic wasn't constructive to begin with. You can't order people around who feel they are being unfairly treated by ZOS in your topic heading and expect positive feedback.

ralphylauren

Can’t believe people actually are blind to the greed zos is displaying

mxxo

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS just gave you a gift. It's a courtesy and nothing more, and they could give us nothing if they want. [snip]

That said, just STOP, for God's sake.

[Edit for bait.]

Stop makin such posts.

pshift

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Some players have invested many hours and many dollars or other foreign currencies into their avatars. Ethnic outfits, name creation,character creation and identified with their character on a personal level.

For some their avatar is a digital sibling.And these players care deeply for their creation/s.These proposed changes are very upsetting to them. I say if they want to ask for a thousand tokens let them ask. It hurts not to ask.

If they've invested all this energy/time/money into the ethnicity of their character, then WTF would they want to change it?

None of these arguments make any sense to me. The one freebie change is nice for people who decide to change their main, but I don't see why anybody would care about needing more.

Roleplayers, casuals, questers, overland people won't need to change race over a few minor changes to passives since they will not make any real difference to them. The BiS nerds with 15 alts who are up in arms make even less sense because BiS changes with literally every update, so they should be used to having to change up their game play and/or reroll toons. I don't think ZoS is being greedy or whatever other tinfoil hat theory you guys have about it. In fact I feel sorry for ZoS because spending 10 minutes in the forums makes one realize how Special Ed their player base is.

Arrodisia

pshift wrote: »

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Some players have invested many hours and many dollars or other foreign currencies into their avatars. Ethnic outfits, name creation,character creation and identified with their character on a personal level.

For some their avatar is a digital sibling.And these players care deeply for their creation/s.These proposed changes are very upsetting to them. I say if they want to ask for a thousand tokens let them ask. It hurts not to ask.

If they've invested all this energy/time/money into the ethnicity of their character, then WTF would they want to change it?

None of these arguments make any sense to me. The one freebie change is nice for people who decide to change their main, but I don't see why anybody would care about needing more.

Roleplayers, casuals, questers, overland people won't need to change race over a few minor changes to passives since they will not make any real difference to them. The BiS nerds with 15 alts who are up in arms make even less sense because BiS changes with literally every update, so they should be used to having to change up their game play and/or reroll toons. I don't think ZoS is being greedy or whatever other tinfoil hat theory you guys have about it. In fact I feel sorry for ZoS because spending 10 minutes in the forums makes one realize how Special Ed their player base is.

Looks like someone was skimming and missed all the other reasons in the thread why people are justified to want the race and name changes for free and nice way to go insult the player base for expressing their opinions in the forums.

People already see through this whole money grab. That one half change token is no kind gesture at all. It's a ploy, and a bad one at that.

I completely disagree with ZOS's stance on this subject. It seems similar to a bait and switch tactic. It's one thing to open a crown store to sell some outfits and mounts, but it's a whole other thing to charge players for their own balancing mistakes. They can happily sell whatever cosmetic outfits, mounts and pets they want, but don't try to resell the player base balancing changes outside of the existing sub, dlc's and expansions. yes balancing according to ZOS over the years is included in the ESO plus model.

When class ability changes came they weren't all game breaking. Yet because the skill changes only cost gold it was given almost for free, and sometimes they were just flat out reset. So people could play using other abilities. So now because tokens are RL money and not gold they want to cash in. I think not and definitely not to this extreme. Even at a reduced price these would be ridculously expensive for people with a full load of chars, and this isn't a burden the players should be carrying at all, not one cent of it.

Unfortunately, I must agree with the majority on this one.

They can't say "ok. You're paying for the dlc's and expansions, and now pay for something we (ZOS)changed within them."
The point remains that they changed the races and people should be able to change to whatever they want regardless of reason for free.
1 time race and name change per char for free.

The charge is not even remotely justified and too costly to push on the player base. It will cost more than the expansion and sub together for those who already have many chars they actively play which a lot of players do.

They (ZOS) even comment that people may have made these races to be competitive with those passives available to them and now they should feel they can play what they want, with less disadvantages, but it's going to cost them. Why? They should've always been able to play what they want "without being at a disadvantage". I do get they want the changes, and so do we. That normally wouldn't be a problem, but the entire change stems from their balancing problems from the beginning. So no. It shouldn't rest on the players to pay extra for those changes. Giving us the race/name changes will cost them nothing. They'll still make plenty of money in the crown store. This is just imho.

You feel sorry for ZOS? They're using an underhanded business tactic(intentionally or not) rather than owning their mistakes and making it right with their customers? That's sad for you.

ValorieW

I am one of those end game players. And yes, I WILL notice the changes. There’s been a lot of discussion in my trials guilds about this and many are unsure they will keep playing. Personally, I’m not preordering the new chapter yet. I won’t until I decide if I’m going to keep playing. From what I can tell, to fix all my characters that will need it, it’s going to be around 150 bucks. That’s INSANE. I’ve paid for race changes before when I screwed up... but this isn’t my fault, I shouldn’t have to pay for this. Just make the race changes free for a limited time, or grant more tokens!!

eso_lags

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS just gave you a gift. It's a courtesy and nothing more, and they could give us nothing if they want. [snip]

That said, just STOP, for God's sake.

[Edit for bait.]

lol, seriously? Well the answer is no, and I hope every single person that sees this will open a thread about it.. I know i will be, you're welcome in advance

And just so you are aware, its not a "courtesy". Its a joke that this *** costs IRL money and not gold. Changing your characters race or appearance? lol. This is just a cash grab aimed at competitive/somewhat competitive players. Nothing more.

eso_lags

frostz417 wrote: »

Okay so I should just buy 5 race change tokens for the 6 characters I have to change while I get 1 freebie because zos once again drastically changes everything?
***** no, this is too far. They’re changing things and making us pay for it, we are tired of constant big ass changes every **** patch and 99% of the changes are just massive nerfs. Consistent nerfs. That’s all zos does. I swear I’ll pitch a fit if I have to spend a bunch of money to race change 5 characters because zos just felt like nerfing races out of the blue.

Yes. This *** is trash. I am sick to *** death of nerfs. Its actually disgusting at this point. WE ARE STILL IN NERFMIRE!

And the blanket nerfs. Blanket nerf to speed this update and now a blanket nerf to racial percentage bonuses. Great.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

Seeing as how this thread has gone off topic and members insist on poking at other instead of being civil and constructive, we have decided it best to close this thread. In the future, when creating posts/threads, we ask that they be kept within the guidelines of the rules that we have in place. If there are any questions about the rules, feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-