Stop asking for more Tokens

serigal

I don’t think 1 token is enough, but I also don’t think we should get 15 either

I’ve played this game since pc beta, pay for eso plus on pc as well as Xbox, I have spent thousands on this game and personally when these changes go live And I receive 1 token and am forced to pick between 15 characters to change I’ll just cancel my subs stop playing and move on to black desert

CaptainVenom

idk wrote: »

I am not one asking for more. However, I really do not see much difference between thread being created to tell others to stop expressing their opinions and those asking for more race change tokens.

Zos should manage the forums and merge those threads into a mega thread. However, I do not think we should tell players to stop expressing themselves. That would be worse than those asking for more.

I'm not asking people to stop saying what they want to say. All I ask, however, is to be reasonable. I played a lot of MMORPGs and I know how a pay2win company works, and I assure you Zenimax is not one of them.

Anyways, ZOS is being generous by giving a cash item to everyone, yet they are not satisfied and want more. This is really unkind of them, if not greedy.

Krayl

I’m fine if they wanna drop 5 on us.

I’m also okay with this compromise solution but it may be overly complex:

1. Give everyone a free token

2. Also give all eso+ subscribers a free token. Even if someone subscribed today that’s still income for them they didn’t have before for nothing. They may even stick as a subscriber. Win win.

3.) give everyone a free token for every character slot they have paid to unlock. These people have obviously already invested and this likely is just the tip of the iceburg of what they have invested in the game.

4.) give everyone a free token for both morrowind and summerset if they purchased them.

Seems fair to me. But again probably not worth the time for them to sort all that out.

BustyChicksFTW

This is hilarious. ZOS effectively and reliably monetized gameplay balance and people are defending them. It wouldn't be so obvious if the race change token didn't coincidentally go on sale as these changes were announced. Some of those changes are no jokes. The Dunmers are kind of dead. There's no point, other than for RP, to pick a Dunmer as of the establishment of these changes.

And almost every magDK in the game is a Dunmer.

You're treating ZOS as if they're on the edge of bankruptcy. The amount of people buying crowns, the price of DLCs and expansions, etc. amount to a humongous profit margin. I know so many people that have spent hundreds of dollars and some 1000$+ in this game. This game is NOT running out of money.

Rightfully so too, it's a really damn cool MMORPG. The best one IMO. And it deserves the popularity. But c'mon guys. At least for level 50 characters?

ccmedaddy

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS just gave you a gift. It's a courtesy and nothing more, and they could give us nothing if they want. [snip]

That said, just STOP, for God's sake.

[Edit for bait.]

lol when you shill for ZOS but ZOS still moderates the hell out of your post...

Arrodisia

I was wondering when the clueless white knight defenders would show up to defend ZOS and how they're unjustly charging us to pay for their balancing mistakes. The knights may have responded in poor taste, but they were quickly on the scene.

CipherNine

Who are you to tell people what not to ask for? If they feel they are getting ripped off, which they are. They can ask to be properly compensated. It's amazing how people are such sheep and so anti-consumer even more then company's are.

geonsocal

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS just gave you a gift. It's a courtesy and nothing more, and they could give us nothing if they want. [snip]

That said, just STOP, for God's sake.

LiquidPony

They're making significant changes to an aspect of your character that can only be changed by paying real $$$.

If there were some in-game mechanism for race changing, it wouldn't be an issue.

It's absolutely within everyone's rights to request more tokens.

Race Change Tokens cost 3,000 Crowns. This isn't a trivial cost. Even buying the best value Crown packs (21,000 @ $149.99), that means each Race Change costs $21.42.

If I want to swap 5 characters, that will cost me about $107.00. That's ridiculous. Doubly so considering I, like a lot of other people, already paid to switch many Khajiit characters to Redguard after ZOS completely destroyed sustain in Morrowind.

Arrodisia

so sad

AlienatedGoat

CaptainVenom wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I am not one asking for more. However, I really do not see much difference between thread being created to tell others to stop expressing their opinions and those asking for more race change tokens.

Zos should manage the forums and merge those threads into a mega thread. However, I do not think we should tell players to stop expressing themselves. That would be worse than those asking for more.

I'm not asking people to stop saying what they want to say. All I ask, however, is to be reasonable. I played a lot of MMORPGs and I know how a pay2win company works, and I assure you Zenimax is not one of them.

Anyways, ZOS is being generous by giving a cash item to everyone, yet they are not satisfied and want more. This is really unkind of them, if not greedy.

As others have stated, it's not generous in the slightest. To think otherwise is just naive.

ZOS created the problem and they're selling the solution.

It's not generosity that motivated them giving you a race change token. It's dealer tactics. They're giving you a taste and hoping you buy more.

If ZOS wanted to actually be generous, understanding, and respectful of their customers, we'd be given at least a limited-time option to change all of our characters, free of charge. Because that's what a good game developer does when you implement game-wide changes that affect everyone.

Arrodisia

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS just gave you a gift. It's a courtesy and nothing more, and they could give us nothing if they want. [snip]

That said, just STOP, for God's sake.

[Edit for bait.]

I'm sorry to inform you, but this is no gift. This is a large burden for the players to carry for balance mistakes ZOS made. It won't cost them anything to do the right thing here. We shouldn't have to foot one cent of this mess. If we don't let them know how wrong this is, and hold our ground, this will continue to happen over and over. No thanks. According to their own comments over the years we pay for balancing already, and this is a balancing issue. We shouldn't repay for things we already pay in this game. They can sell whatever cosmetics they want, but they can't resell us balancing outside of the sub, expansions and dlcs. The next expansion, by the way, is also more expensive this time around. What are people who have 6,10,12,or even max amount of chars going to with one half a token. No thanks. It's flat out wrong. We should be getting race and name changes for free on all chars. It's as simple as that.
#41
10:35PM

Taleof2Cities

1. Of the players “complaining” about not enough race change tokens to fully respec their characters ... how many of you players are actually playing end game content where race change would even matter?

2. Of those “end game” players, how many of you are actually going to notice a difference in DPS, heals, or tanking ability when the patch drops?

Thought so.

Krayl

Lets be clear about one thing - ZOS has made the first step by offering one free change and they must have anticipated this would not be viewed adequate. I think it's fair to give them feedback and time to respond before accusing them of a blatant cash grab. If they listen to feedback and do the right thing, we should all see more than 1 meager token. I think they will meet us half way. No reason they shouldn't as I don't think they are basing their fiscal projections for the year on race change tokens.

Overall while I have some gripes, I'm positive about the changes. But they are large and even if it's not to 'min max', all players deserve the opportunity to re-evaluate their race choices with such changes and not pay out of pocket for them.

Now, cue the people who will say, "players wanted more balance and options!" Cool. Yes some players requested this, but the number of people vocalizing this is dwarfed by the people who either didn't have it as a priority or don't even visit the forums, submit feedback, or have anything to do with the game besides logging in and playing.

This shouldn't be a ZOS bashing thread anymore than it should be coddling them for the 'courtesy' and benevolent offering of one meager token.

brandonv516

I've paid for 5 race changes in the last 2 years. It would be nice if they took this into consideration when issuing tokens.

I won't pay for even 1 more race change though, won't subscribe, won't buy crates, etc.

And any further DLC purchases for me weigh heavily on the next patch notes and what they intend on fixing/changing.

There's not much we can do with our words (that much is evident), but not paying them more money than they deserve is fair.

AlienatedGoat

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

1. Of the players “complaining” about not enough race change tokens to fully respec their characters ... how many of you players are actually playing end game content where race change would even matter?

2. Of those “end game” players, how many of you are actually going to notice a difference in DPS, heals, or tanking ability when the patch drops?

Thought so.

How many players are impacted is irrelevant. Your strawman argument doesn't refute what's already been said about this.

These shady af business practices that ZOS uses to push people to the Crown Store are inexcusable.

Krayl

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

1. Of the players “complaining” about not enough race change tokens to fully respec their characters ... how many of you players are actually playing end game content where race change would even matter?

2. Of those “end game” players, how many of you are actually going to notice a difference in DPS, heals, or tanking ability when the patch drops?

Thought so.

Cool so next time you go buy a sandwich and order ham and swiss and they give you roast beef and cheddar, I expect you to either get back in line and pay full price for another sandwich, or eat your roast beef and cheddar becuase "it's still a sandwich - I should just be grateful for the chance to eat it!"

Matchimus

I'm a new player so changes have little impact on me but I can understand if someone has invested a lot of time into several toons only for it to feel like they have been shafted. Compassion.

pod88kk

No we wont

These changes are mainly are mainly going to affect the end game PVE and the min/maxing PVP players. Players who will more than likely have spent a large amount of time and money on this game already.

The end game PVE scene is losing players quicker than it's gaining them so nerfing their builds and making them pay real money to make them viable again is very insulting.

Role players aren't going to care about these changes, they picked their race regardless of the passives.

Pvp players will be a bit peeved too I imagine(especially if they're dark elf) but the other races don't seem to have been hit quite as hard with the Nerfhammer making most builds still viable.

End PVE will suffer for this Zos

Arrodisia

Sergykid wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

Anyone saying that a free token is "generous" or asking for more is "entitlement" - you do realize you're talking about literally a zero-cost virtual service, right? A company is not 'generous' for giving you an item that literally costs them nothing. [...]

it costs them the price of a token. You won't spend money to buy a token, because u got one for free.

and this whole thing is overrated. Nobody needs a token for each of their characters. If you had a redguard before, you won't change it now, same with altmer etc. You maybe had a dunmer that you won't like anymore so you`ll use the free token.

1st.) DO you know what characters people have? no. Do you know their play style? no. If they want play their way they can. If they wantto reroll each char and race on 2 or 6 or a full load of chars it's their business, not yours. Live and let live. If you don't want to reroll yours fine don't, but don't criticize and knock those who do want that.


2nd.) So, you're suggesting that the player base foot a real life money cost for balancing issues, which is already supposedly included in their ESO plus according to ZOS's statements over the years? Are you trolling or serious here? People will still buy those tokens later on for many other reasons. There's no reason for ZOS to alienate the player base and recharge them for balancing issues.

Arrodisia

CaptainVenom wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I am not one asking for more. However, I really do not see much difference between thread being created to tell others to stop expressing their opinions and those asking for more race change tokens.

Zos should manage the forums and merge those threads into a mega thread. However, I do not think we should tell players to stop expressing themselves. That would be worse than those asking for more.

I'm not asking people to stop saying what they want to say. All I ask, however, is to be reasonable. I played a lot of MMORPGs and I know how a pay2win company works, and I assure you Zenimax is not one of them.

Anyways, ZOS is being generous by giving a cash item to everyone, yet they are not satisfied and want more. This is really unkind of them, if not greedy.

I'm sorry, but this is no gift. I must, respectfully, disagree. This is a large burden for the players to carry for balance mistakes ZOS made. It won't cost them anything to do the right thing here. We shouldn't have to foot one cent of this mess. According to their own comments over the years we pay for balancing already, and this is a balancing issue. We shouldn't repay for things we already pay in this game. They can sell whatever cosmetics they want, but they can't resell us balancing outside of the sub, expansions and dlcs. No thanks. This is a whole new level of wrong here. The players are justified to ask for race and name changes in this case.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

The solution is so freaking obvious. Dont give us race change tokens. Make race changes free for the first week after it goes live. That way nobody can complain, just like when they radically alter skills and make skill changes (almost) free for a week or so.

And for the record, people have VERY good reason to complain right now. I have 15 characters, and I picked all of their races based on passives and nothing more. Now I doubt I will need to change all 15 of them, but I am positive there are going to be more than one that I want to change.

From my point of view, this is a cash grab disguised as a balance change. Prove me wrong and make them free for a week.

zaria

I changed my mind here, lots of people are not chasing the *** meta but has an option to break out.
Dunmer and Khajiit, they have the major nerf immunity stat as primary racial.
You started as an Nord wanting to be an heroic tank leading raids.
Now is the hour.
You wanted an magic Khajiit build or an Dunmer Stamina one, now drop ultimate and run.

OtarTheMad

Okay so I can see both sides of this argument and can agree that if you built your character on a certain race and build then this change can be frustrating but I am leaning more towards the other side.

You shouldn't chase best race for "X" because you will just end up getting annoyed every single DLC and burning out. I have a Imperial magicka templar (mostly melee) and he does just fine and stats are great too. This coming change will not change that. Just make whatever you want, honestly unless you're trying to be elite it won't matter you will still, most likely, hit 30k DPS (or be able to tank a dungeon no problem or heal one).

I almost burned out years ago chasing best race for a build, deleted a lot of characters (no tokens back then) and in the end it wasn't smart. This is a game and in reality you can do any race any build. This update really helps with that.

Plus none of these changes absolutely destroy any race, yes even Khajiit, and aren't final anyway. It'll be fine, if these changes went live as is it'd be a step towards balance imo.

Krayl

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Okay so I can see both sides of this argument and can agree that if you built your character on a certain race and build then this change can be frustrating but I am leaning more towards the other side.

You shouldn't chase best race for "X" because you will just end up getting annoyed every single DLC and burning out. I have a Imperial magicka templar (mostly melee) and he does just fine and stats are great too. This coming change will not change that. Just make whatever you want, honestly unless you're trying to be elite it won't matter you will still, most likely, hit 30k DPS (or be able to tank a dungeon no problem or heal one).

I almost burned out years ago chasing best race for a build, deleted a lot of characters (no tokens back then) and in the end it wasn't smart. This is a game and in reality you can do any race any build. This update really helps with that.

Plus none of these changes absolutely destroy any race, yes even Khajiit, and aren't final anyway. It'll be fine, if these changes went live as is it'd be a step towards balance imo.

None of these points illustrate why ZOS shouldn't give everyone more free race changes that cost them nothing. It literally has zero negative impact on anyone. Conversely the race changes do in fact have a small negative impact on a great deal of players. This is just more irrelevant information that misses the point entirely. Why anyone is against this is beyond me.

So far no one has made a single compelling argument about why we shouldn't get more tokens, besides "You're getting one, be happy it's so generous of them to even give you one free virtual service that literally costs them zero."

Thoragaal

Turelus wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS just gave you a gift. It's a courtesy and nothing more, and they could give us nothing if they want. [snip]

That said, just STOP, for God's sake.

[Edit for bait.]

The problem is normally when ZOS makes radical changes to something (like a class) there is a period where we get free or massively reduced costs in respecs for our characters.

This time however as the changes may warrant a full race change people can't get that discount on all their characters and many have more than one max level character they will want to change due toe the balance pass.

TBH I feel ZOS would be better not giving out racial tokens but finding some way that everyone can do it for free in game for a period of time or adding an in game item (bound to character) which they can place on each persons character.

Yeah I was actually thinking along the same lines.
Like sometimes when lots of changes have been made, you can change your skills for free for a period of time. Why not make it with your race? Like, free race change for a week after the patch goes live?

Splattercat_83

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ZOS just gave you a gift. It's a courtesy and nothing more, and they could give us nothing if they want. [snip]

That said, just STOP, for God's sake.

[Edit for bait.]

If they didn't go around messing with race passives because someone wants to play a sorc kitty cat while they kill mudcrabs in auridon it wouldn't be an issue.

But yet here we are, some people might have their characters slotted for max damage or max performance for certain roles, and now we have to spend real life money to completely change the race of almost every single character they have.

Ulfgarde

It wouldn't be so bad if the races weren't so radically different as they were before the patch. The gap between picking 1 over the other has increased tremendously. Btw it's not a gift lol. They're a business; by giving away 1 mere token it's encouraging people to purchase race change tokens even more

Riverlynn

I have to open with the fact that I'm not fussed either way about the race change - I don't play bleeding-edge scoreboard stuff so a few extra per-cent of sustain has never bothered me...all my toons are rolled for fun, not stats, so this issue does not have any impact on me.

However, we all know that a VAST number of players choose a specific race in order to obtain a performance boost - ZO$ has now changed the goal posts for all those people, many of whom will have more than one toon. Those players are now going to have to re-roll, or dip into their pockets to achieve the same performance they were getting. I'm betting that ZO$ are figuring that if a player wants to stay competitive (as far as that player is concerned anyway) then pocket dipping will ensue.

Also, to those people saying 'stop complaining - they just gave you a gift' ...yes, you do have a point, but lets look at that 'gift'. Is it something they had to manufacture, with all the associated costs that they're giving players? Is it something they have to distribute?

Nope, it's a zero cost item. The only difference between a one time per account which we are being offered, and a one time per character per account which we should be offered is the loss of potential revenue to ZO$ - revenue gained to solve a problem of their own creation.

Yes, some of the threads are out of control with the entitlement - this IS the ESO forums after all...but we're not talking about people crying because they can't afford whatever eye-candy the crown store is currently crapping out - this issue is a real one. It doesn't effect me, but I really empathise with those it does.

The base stats of everybody's characters are being changed, and ZO$ has just monetized the solution (for all but one toon per account) to a problem THEY have created.

So yeah, I say let people vent.

JaZ2091

We'll ask for whatever god damn thing we want. We're the ones paying for the subscription, the expansion and so forth. *** on customers and you get no revenue and a empty game with only die-hards left