Older players, Elseweyr and Race Changes

Tigerseye

As I have said before, they should probably just get rid of racials.

Then everyone is on an even footing and no one has to pay for a race change.

There is more than enough to think about, in this game, in terms of class, magicka/stamina/hybrid choice, skills, CP points, gear (there is way too much random gear!) and so on, without needing the added complications of racials, which you can't even change without having to pay to abandon your character.

I don't want to lose QOL/mild survivability things, like my fall damage reduction and I like that I will be able to get a slight speed boost without bow; but, things like that could always be optional extras gained in other ways (like via skill points).

They don't have to be linked to race.

ArchMikem

Racials barely mattered at all to begin with, and why is there such an adamant need to have your character be the best possible Race based on stats? Your character stops being a character and ends up being nothing more than a spreadsheet.

I'm a player of 3+ years. I have 5 characters. 3 are Khajiit, 2 Argonian. I got Mageslayer, Peak Scaler etc. on a Khajiit MagSorc of all things. I think people will live if your Race isnt Meta anymore.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

12 race changes are worth about $350 to ZOS really.

mxxo

ArchMikem wrote: »

Racials barely mattered at all to begin with, and why is there such an adamant need to have your character be the best possible Race based on stats? Your character stops being a character and ends up being nothing more than a spreadsheet.

I'm a player of 3+ years. I have 5 characters. 3 are Khajiit, 2 Argonian. I got Mageslayer, Peak Scaler etc. on a Khajiit MagSorc of all things. I think people will live if your Race isnt Meta anymore.

You make it sound like passives could be randomly generated in character creation. But what sense do they have then?

Cryptical

Anastian wrote: »

What's your opinion, forums?

PS: don't start with: you can play without the BiS race etc, I really want to see you entering a raid group for immortal redeemer with a khajiit mage.

If you already have an altmer mage good enough for immortal redeemer right now, are you going to change it after the race passives update?

None of the proposed changes affect current characters so much that they would be unable to continue in their current role, so your complaint is baseless.

Elwendryll

Anything in this game is subject to change, more or less. That's a choice to use the most adequate race for a specific role/ressource type at a given time. BiS races are the most likely to get nerfed. The min/max life is the most hazardous one, you have to rebuild each update, race change, etc...
If you pick a race you love, you're less likely to feel the need to change. And, honestly, the new racials are not worth a race change. Unless you're as committed as a leaderboard runner, and you need that extra 1k dps.

PS: Wait for my khajiit mage

Trashkan

Anastian wrote: »

PS: don't start with: you can play without the BiS race etc, I really want to see you entering a raid group for immortal redeemer with a khajiit mage.

This is where zos failed us. I know khajit is stam all day but why cant people very creative and have a kajit mage. Creativity is out the door watch an alcast stream and l2p noob is how I feel the game is being broadcasted across the board. It's really sad.

BoneShatterer

Anastian wrote: »

Hi all.
As a player that is here since a while, I am a bit concerned about the current money request on behalf of ZoS. The team is giving us only one free race change when we probably have at least 1 pvp, 1 pve character and usually way more characters than that, while also asking us to purchase Elseweyr for 40€.

I am not complaining about the prices themselves, they are fair, but the older player base might have built their characters on the previous races and, in order to reach the desired performance on that character, would have to purchase 1 race change per char. Isn't this a bit... Too much, considering that race changes cost 3k crowns?

I am sincerely concerned because before, crowns were necessary for cosmetic items, and you could avoid purchasing those, but now just to play the game at its peak, you also need to purchase loads of race change tokens for all of your characters. I don't know, I feel like players who have an X amount of hours on some older characters should get multiple race change tokens, and not just one. What's your opinion, forums?

PS: don't start with: you can play without the BiS race etc, I really want to see you entering a raid group for immortal redeemer with a khajiit mage.

30$ to avoid working on a new char for 3 days... fair enough dont you think? lazyness and credit are a dangerous mix. specially when a company relies on the stupidity of lazy players to live

InvictusApollo

One race change token is not enough. We should be given as many race change tokens as many chars we have since most smart players have almost all of their characters min maxed to fit meta and role.
This is obvious cash grab on ZOS side.

Latios

I think the correct approach in their part should be giving one race change token, as they said they would, AND to allow for a free race respec for one week after the update arrives, with a e-mail sent to everyone at least a month prior so no one misses out.

The problem with giving multiple race change tokens is that it could just let people hang on to them to use multiple times on a single toon. That’s why a free respec for a limited time would be the correct approach.

zaria

Elwendryll wrote: »

Anything in this game is subject to change, more or less. That's a choice to use the most adequate race for a specific role/ressource type at a given time. BiS races are the most likely to get nerfed. The min/max life is the most hazardous one, you have to rebuild each update, race change, etc...
If you pick a race you love, you're less likely to feel the need to change. And, honestly, the new racials are not worth a race change. Unless you're as committed as a leaderboard runner, and you need that extra 1k dps.

PS: Wait for my khajiit mage

Some people might want to change their Altmer mage into Khajiit or an Redguard into Dunmer now that this works much better, yes you loose 1% but you can play the race you wanted.

Has an Khajiit stamblade and an Bosmer magblade who will need to learn new skills.

VaranisArano

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Anastian wrote: »

Hi all.
As a player that is here since a while, I am a bit concerned about the current money request on behalf of ZoS. The team is giving us only one free race change when we probably have at least 1 pvp, 1 pve character and usually way more characters than that, while also asking us to purchase Elseweyr for 40€.

I am not complaining about the prices themselves, they are fair, but the older player base might have built their characters on the previous races and, in order to reach the desired performance on that character, would have to purchase 1 race change per char. Isn't this a bit... Too much, considering that race changes cost 3k crowns?

I am sincerely concerned because before, crowns were necessary for cosmetic items, and you could avoid purchasing those, but now just to play the game at its peak, you also need to purchase loads of race change tokens for all of your characters. I don't know, I feel like players who have an X amount of hours on some older characters should get multiple race change tokens, and not just one. What's your opinion, forums?

PS: don't start with: you can play without the BiS race etc, I really want to see you entering a raid group for immortal redeemer with a khajiit mage.

30$ to avoid working on a new char for 3 days... fair enough dont you think? lazyness and credit are a dangerous mix. specially when a company relies on the stupidity of lazy players to live

If it takes you 3 days to level a new character, collect enough skyshards to have enough skill points to be decent at trials/PVP, level up the Alliance war lines, and grab Undaunted passives, more power to you. And if you have the gold to throw down for bag space and at least 60 days for mount training, not to mention if you want to do crafting writs...

The rest of us, sitting here looking at our maxed characters we sunk time and effort into, with all those skills points and mount training and bag space and passives, etc. will be considering the race changes (as well as a Name Change because some of us named our characters according to their race, not "dkh967ohjre" or "Bob".)

In short, you are minimizing the work of actually re-leveling a character to be suitable for end-game content or Cyrodiil combat in favor of insulting "lazy" players.


Sure, people who want a race change could make a new character to replace the one they feel is useless now.

But let's not pretend there isn't a significant effort that would go into recreating that character to match the one they are replacing. ZOS knows that full well and is banking on that to drive sales of Race and Name Change tokens.

You call it sales to the lazy. I call it monetizing major gameplay changes.

SugaComa

Anastian wrote: »

Hi all.
As a player that is here since a while, I am a bit concerned about the current money request on behalf of ZoS. The team is giving us only one free race change when we probably have at least 1 pvp, 1 pve character and usually way more characters than that, while also asking us to purchase Elseweyr for 40€.

I am not complaining about the prices themselves, they are fair, but the older player base might have built their characters on the previous races and, in order to reach the desired performance on that character, would have to purchase 1 race change per char. Isn't this a bit... Too much, considering that race changes cost 3k crowns?

I am sincerely concerned because before, crowns were necessary for cosmetic items, and you could avoid purchasing those, but now just to play the game at its peak, you also need to purchase loads of race change tokens for all of your characters. I don't know, I feel like players who have an X amount of hours on some older characters should get multiple race change tokens, and not just one. What's your opinion, forums?

PS: don't start with: you can play without the BiS race etc, I really want to see you entering a raid group for immortal redeemer with a khajiit mage.

I'm a long term player with 8 characters and I partly disagree ...

Based on cost output V time input I've had a very good rate of return ... Almost like living in Tamriel rent free. Especially if you're a none subscriber ....

If however you've been a subscriber for a lot of it then yes maybe a race chance scroll for ever quarter you've subscribed

SugaComa

Tigerseye wrote: »

As I have said before, they should probably just get rid of racials.

Then everyone is on an even footing and no one has to pay for a race change.

There is more than enough to think about, in this game, in terms of class, magicka/stamina/hybrid choice, skills, CP points, gear (there is way too much random gear!) and so on, without needing the added complications of racials, which you can't even change without having to pay to abandon your character.

I don't want to lose QOL/mild survivability things, like my fall damage reduction and I like that I will be able to get a slight speed boost without bow; but, things like that could always be optional extras gained in other ways (like via skill points).

They don't have to be linked to race.

I think stuff like swim speed and fall damage should be linked to CP ... Have the CP be a way to increase racial passives but unique to the race flat fixed unlock not top up percentages

ku5h

Starlock wrote: »

My general assessment of the situation is this:

Some Players: I have decided I want to be a power gamer and min-maxer, and must be competitive at PvP/trials/etc

Developers: *inevitable changes to game mechanics*

Some Players: How dare you make changes that make me change my characters because of my decision to be a power gamer and min-maxer!

Take responsibility for your decisions, guys. If you decide to be a power gamer, you need to either accept the consequences of that decision or consider amending your fixation on power gaming. There is only a cost because YOU insist on holding to particular expectations; that's not the developer's responsibility, it's YOURS. You WILL have to deal with this again. Over, and over, and over. You are not entitled to ANY developer compensation for this.

This is why gaming industry is going to ***. This type of mindset.

Minyassa

I will never purchase a race change token, or use a free one. My characters are all the race they are for RP purposes and they stay that way; I'll be "adjusting", for good or ill, to whatever ridiculousness these racial changes cause for my play styles. But I know I'm in the minority. For most people, race is a mechanical choice. Since ZOS is changing the mechanics entirely so that people's original mechanical choice is being rendered ineffective, it's ZOS's responsibility to make sure that the average player is not forced to pay money to continue to play without handicap. Since it is very clear that they are making certain races good for certain styles and terrible for others, they are forcing race to be a major mechanical choice, and that means they are jerking the rug out from under a lot of people's feet. Free race change tokens for all characters is the ONLY honorable option under these circumstances.

Starlock

eso_lags wrote: »

This hostility always seems to come from people who RP or people who play casual. I mean you are 100% entitled to your opinion and at least you are nice enough to show it to us all. I know when you are questing or role playing it doesnt mean anything to have the right race, but for some of us it does.

I'm confused as to why you perceive hostility in what I wrote, because I certainly don't feel that way about it. Race choices actually mean quite a lot to me, contrary to what you say here. It's a big part of my character's identities, which is why I would never consider changing it for any of my characters. My "right race" just looks different, just like my "meta" looks different.

eso_lags wrote: »

For some of us who like to do the hardest content the game has to offer, it does. For some of us who like to go into cyrodil alone, every little bit matters. If you understood pvp, or endgame pve content, you would know that someone with a race that does nothing for them will usually do worse than someone who has a race that benefits them in multiple ways. At least if the players are both competent with what they are doing.

I've done some of that content, though it's not really my thing. I find not caring so much about a video game - knowing how to laugh and just have fun with it instead - is a good approach. Less life stress is a good thing, and gods know many of us really cannot be spending our energy stressing about a game. XD

eso_lags wrote: »

You are literally blaming people for not wanting to be sucked into a blatant cash grab aimed at any competitive-somewhat competitive players in the game. Thats truly sad. Im sorry i dont want to go into pvp on an orc stam sorc, or any class tbh, thats lost nearly all the healing i had and a good amount of my max health/stam.

That's your perception of it, and while understandable, it's not mine. The narrative stems from player expectations - "I want to play like this" - and because of that, the developers don't owe us a darned thing. That doesn't make what they're doing right, but they're not responsible for OUR decisions about how WE play the game. To put things in perspective, please understand that I've had to deal with this myself on other issues in the game. I'll even complain about it here and there; at the end of the day, I understand that it is MY decisions that cause problem on these fronts and therefore the developers really do not owe me for something that is MY decision. That's the main thing I wanted to point out, really.

Or, you know, if they owe min-maxers free race changes they owe me several free outfit slots....

eso_nya

ArchMikem wrote: »

Racials barely mattered at all to begin with, and why is there such an adamant need to have your character be the best possible Race based on stats? Your character stops being a character and ends up being nothing more than a spreadsheet.

I'm a player of 3+ years. I have 5 characters. 3 are Khajiit, 2 Argonian. I got Mageslayer, Peak Scaler etc. on a Khajiit MagSorc of all things. I think people will live if your Race isnt Meta anymore.

I agree and disagree with that.

My mismatched racials never stopped my magickal bosmers. at first it was cool, to shine on a non meta setup. over the years tho, the voice in my head telling me "u could do better" was getting louder. one of the reasons why i stopped doing groupcontent. I'm refusing to play a char where i dont like the looks and i'm refusing not to bring my best possible performance when playing with ppl i like.

If they had said, the goal is, to make races more distinct towards a certain role or aspect of the game, as in vision for 2019: "nord will be the absolute best tanks in pve, imperials in pvp; altmer shall be the best race for pve magDD and bretons will be designated healers", well fine by me, snippy approach, but whatever.

If they try to sell it as "balance for freedom and diversity" with a subgoal of "making u feel stronger when u level up", i ask how that is supposed to help my bosmer getting a better healer?

on the flipside:
If racials dont matter anyways, why r they there in the first place and why do they need balancing?
If the stats r only intresting to minmaxing meta chasers, why r they based on lore?
If racial features determine stats, why dont u get -50% max magicka, spell dmg/crit and mag regen when picking blonde hair?

In other less funny words, why is that "halfarsed" looks-determine-stat system only present in some few areas of the game (that r additionally hard/expensive to change)?
Could do a lot more for immersion, by having "amount of skin covered by gear" determining if u take frost damage in skyrim or overheat in alikr; bodyhight impacting movementspeed and staminadrain from sprint (longer legs); age slider impacting magicka by being "wiser"; soft <-> muscular impacting weapondmg/stam regen ... up to female chars being better at clothing and cooking while males r better at smithing. Or well just seperate stats and looks completely.

Arrodisia

BoneShatterer wrote: »

Anastian wrote: »

Hi all.
As a player that is here since a while, I am a bit concerned about the current money request on behalf of ZoS. The team is giving us only one free race change when we probably have at least 1 pvp, 1 pve character and usually way more characters than that, while also asking us to purchase Elseweyr for 40€.

I am not complaining about the prices themselves, they are fair, but the older player base might have built their characters on the previous races and, in order to reach the desired performance on that character, would have to purchase 1 race change per char. Isn't this a bit... Too much, considering that race changes cost 3k crowns?

I am sincerely concerned because before, crowns were necessary for cosmetic items, and you could avoid purchasing those, but now just to play the game at its peak, you also need to purchase loads of race change tokens for all of your characters. I don't know, I feel like players who have an X amount of hours on some older characters should get multiple race change tokens, and not just one. What's your opinion, forums?

PS: don't start with: you can play without the BiS race etc, I really want to see you entering a raid group for immortal redeemer with a khajiit mage.

30$ to avoid working on a new char for 3 days... fair enough dont you think? lazyness and credit are a dangerous mix. specially when a company relies on the stupidity of lazy players to live

Fair enough? No it isn't, not even close, and this isn't even remotely about laziness. Explain to me how a person with all slots full will reroll a char without deleting one that they spent years playing? and get their skill points and passives ready for PvP and raiding within 3 days. You know. 1st.) That is a total exaggeration on your part. 2nd.)Let the players play the way they want.

Further more, explain to me why we should pay for their(ZOS's) balancing errors. Especially since balancing according to ZOS is included in ESO PLus. This doesn't just impact Meta characters either. There are a lot of threads with some really helpful information on this subject. They may enlighten you a bit, or not. It's your choice.

You can eat the turd soup if you want but don't push others to accept it if they don't want it, and don't knock people for wanting what's fair and wanting ZOS to make this right. ZOS can defend their own business tactics themselves or maybe even rectify it with their customers. That's pretty much their choice.

supaskrub

Having thought about this, I myself would like a little more from ZOS than what they are giving, throw your diehard players a bone. How about next months daily rewards contain a race change token for the highest daily login reward?, put more mount upgrades in as daily rewards in the run up to Elsweyr etc

Emmagoldman

I dont plan on changing any toon at this point.

rafaelcsmaia

eso_nya wrote: »

female chars being better at clothing and cooking while males r better at smithing.

Oh boy, you have placed the bait for the SJW horde, I can already hear them marching here

Noisivid

I'll wait till I can test my characters on the PTS. I don't really think just one free race change token per account is enough in a game that allows 15(?) characters per account though. Maybe one token per 3 characters?

Anastian

Sibenice wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

My general assessment of the situation is this:

Some Players: I have decided I want to be a power gamer and min-maxer, and must be competitive at PvP/trials/etc

Developers: *inevitable changes to game mechanics*

Some Players: How dare you make changes that make me change my characters because of my decision to be a power gamer and min-maxer!

Take responsibility for your decisions, guys. If you decide to be a power gamer, you need to either accept the consequences of that decision or consider amending your fixation on power gaming. There is only a cost because YOU insist on holding to particular expectations; that's not the developer's responsibility, it's YOURS. You WILL have to deal with this again. Over, and over, and over. You are not entitled to ANY developer compensation for this.

The difference is, until now, fixing your character back to meta after changes has never cost real money. It's one thing to have to go grind out another set of gear, mats for upgrading, enchants, etc because you're playing the game to get what you need to be the best you can. It's another to simply have to drop $30 per character after the first. This is why people are upset.

Totally agreed there

Lifemocker

You can buy them with gold from other players, yes? I see people ”wtb race change” in chats all the time now. Go get some gold and someone else will spend the money for you.