Older players, Elseweyr and Race Changes

Anastian

Hi all.
As a player that is here since a while, I am a bit concerned about the current money request on behalf of ZoS. The team is giving us only one free race change when we probably have at least 1 pvp, 1 pve character and usually way more characters than that, while also asking us to purchase Elseweyr for 40€.

I am not complaining about the prices themselves, they are fair, but the older player base might have built their characters on the previous races and, in order to reach the desired performance on that character, would have to purchase 1 race change per char. Isn't this a bit... Too much, considering that race changes cost 3k crowns?

I am sincerely concerned because before, crowns were necessary for cosmetic items, and you could avoid purchasing those, but now just to play the game at its peak, you also need to purchase loads of race change tokens for all of your characters. I don't know, I feel like players who have an X amount of hours on some older characters should get multiple race change tokens, and not just one. What's your opinion, forums?

PS: don't start with: you can play without the BiS race etc, I really want to see you entering a raid group for immortal redeemer with a khajiit mage.

WuffyCerulei

I know a lizard dude who’s gotten IR, so race isn’t the the biggest factor, as OP stated.

Tommy_The_Gun

I think they should simply give as race change token equivalent in crowns. There are a lot of people who will not use this race change token, so it is basically useless for some players. On the other hand we have "altoholics" min-maxers and one race change toke is not enough for them.

zaria

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I think they should simply give as race change token equivalent in crowns. There are a lot of people who will not use this race change token, so it is basically useless for some players. On the other hand we have "altoholics" min-maxers and one race change toke is not enough for them.

I have one Khajiit I will change how look.

VaranisArano

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I know a lizard dude who’s gotten IR, so race isn’t the the biggest factor, as OP stated.

Race is only a factor if your group wants it to be a factor. If a group wants the meta, or a player want to perform at the top tier, race does make a difference,

I've got a Dunmer StamWarden for PVP that I made to roleplay through Morrowind. Mathematically, she's inferior to a current Redguard Stam warden. Fortunately, I dont care about too tier competition and my PVP guild was happy to build to the strengths of the Dunmer instead of insisting on the meta choice of race.

Nevertheless, this is still a matter of ZOS changing the meta in such a way that players either have to pay to follow the meta, grind up lots of new characters, or accept not being meta. Whereas before ZOS mainly changed gear or adjusted which class is most in demand for top tier content, it wasnt as monetized as Race Change tokens are (and I note that the free race change token does not include a Name Change token with it).

As the OP states, for those of us with a lot of time and effort sunk into our characters, the increased monetization of the changes is concerning.

Anastian

Well getting IR with a lizard is possible, for sure. But this was just an example: any proper PvE guild will ask you to have an altmer as a magicka character now; in PvP, races do matter as they account for 6.5 "set items" equipped, so even though the changes are great per se, if you created a character with a certain design in mind (fire DK Dunmer, Redguard Stamplar, etc) the hit will be rather strong, perhaps to the point where you want to move to a different race (consider argonian magicka characters that would now favor breton or altmer; consider stamina characters who might prefer the new orcs now).

As the choice of the race is set in stone, and it's not interchangeable as a set item, being forced to purchase crowns for a race change seems a bit too much, given that the new chapter is dropping soon as well.

Anastian

VaranisArano wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I know a lizard dude who’s gotten IR, so race isn’t the the biggest factor, as OP stated.

Race is only a factor if your group wants it to be a factor. If a group wants the meta, or a player want to perform at the top tier, race does make a difference,

I've got a Dunmer StamWarden for PVP that I made to roleplay through Morrowind. Mathematically, she's inferior to a current Redguard Stam warden. Fortunately, I dont care about too tier competition and my PVP guild was happy to build to the strengths of the Dunmer instead of insisting on the meta choice of race.

Nevertheless, this is still a matter of ZOS changing the meta in such a way that players either have to pay to follow the meta, grind up lots of new characters, or accept not being meta. Whereas before ZOS mainly changed gear or adjusted which class is most in demand for top tier content, it wasnt as monetized as Race Change tokens are (and I note that the free race change token does not include a Name Change token with it).

As the OP states, for those of us with a lot of time and effort sunk into our characters, the increased monetization of the changes is concerning.

Yeah this is the main concern: I don't mind paying for new content, but if I sank my time to get level 9 undaunted, unlock psijic, mages and fighters guild and I levelled all the abilities and skill lines I would possibly ever need AND unlock all the passives, having to recreate even one character becomes a hassle. And again, I have been an argonian NB since one tamriel, and it surely wasn't as performing before due to the different meta and the waaaaay lower resources constraints. I chose that race just for RP intentions, I know that currently it deserved a nerf, and I will probably keep that character as an argonian NB. Nevertheless, if I wanted to maintain peak performance, I'd have to race change, and I can't do that as I have other characters and no willingness to spend 3k crowns per race change on each of them. Thus the other characters, which were minmaxed, are all out of meta in a single swipe. That's a bit disconcerning as it's not just a matter of farming new sets, or changing abilities, or figuring out new builds: I have to pay to get back in the meta, and this is the wrong way to go, imo.

FlyingSwan

My view, as a player since beta:

1 - Elswyr appears too pricey for what - at the moment anyway - seems rather lacking in content. So am holding off buying
2 - The race change token thing comes across as a cash grab to me, a really blatant one that preys on FUD
3 - That said, I am not that worried about the race changes at this point, because I am just not sure what they mean, I suspect usual game forum noise and FUD
4 - I would use the one 'free' race token on my main char (which is min-maxed) and leave the others because I simply won't be sucked into any cash grab from any company. What will be will be, it's just a game, not something I consider to have any form of high importance in my life

NoTimeToWait

Anastian wrote: »

Yeah this is the main concern: I don't mind paying for new content, but if I sank my time to get level 9 undaunted, unlock psijic, mages and fighters guild and I levelled all the abilities and skill lines I would possibly ever need AND unlock all the passives, having to recreate even one character becomes a hassle. And again, I have been an argonian NB since one tamriel, and it surely wasn't as performing before due to the different meta and the waaaaay lower resources constraints. I chose that race just for RP intentions, I know that currently it deserved a nerf, and I will probably keep that character as an argonian NB. Nevertheless, if I wanted to maintain peak performance, I'd have to race change, and I can't do that as I have other characters and no willingness to spend 3k crowns per race change on each of them. Thus the other characters, which were minmaxed, are all out of meta in a single swipe. That's a bit disconcerning as it's not just a matter of farming new sets, or changing abilities, or figuring out new builds: I have to pay to get back in the meta, and this is the wrong way to go, imo.

I see your point, but the counter argument is that you can't be a true min\maxer without ability and resources to cope with balance changes. Just settle with an idea that you won't be 100% meta, because racial changes are actually not that fundamental or disruptive, like some class changes.

Anastian

FlyingSwan wrote: »

My view, as a player since beta:

1 - Elswyr appears too pricey for what - at the moment anyway - seems rather lacking in content. So am holding off buying
2 - The race change token thing comes across as a cash grab to me, a really blatant one that preys on FUD
3 - That said, I am not that worried about the race changes at this point, because I am just not sure what they mean, I suspect usual game forum noise and FUD
4 - I would use the one 'free' race token on my main char (which is min-maxed) and leave the others because I simply won't be sucked into any cash grab from any company. What will be will be, it's just a game, not something I consider to have any form of high importance in my life

Fair enough, you are right

Palidon

Simple solution to the upcoming crap coming down the line with the new content and class passive changes. If you have a sub cancel it. Move on to another game.

FlyingSwan

Palidon wrote: »

Simple solution to the upcoming crap coming down the line with the new content and class passive changes. If you have a sub cancel it. Move on to another game.

Yes, I've not renewed my sub for about 1 year now. I like the game but it's certainly not my primary game, it's too inconsistent right now.

Mik195

While I doubt it, maybe the token won't be locked to your account. If the people who don't need to race change could sell it in game, it would help the people who need more than one.

Arrodisia

Basically, we accept the changes just not the cost they are throwing at the player base for their balancing issues. The expansion is already priced higher than the last one. This will have an impact on all players directly and indirectly. If this goes through the shady money grabs will only get worse each time, and the population will dwindle to all time lows.

It's crystal clear to people who are honest with themselves and honest with the community members they play with. This isn't player vs. player right now. There is no need to attack each other's play styles or RP habits or anything else here. We're all the player base together not just one of us is important. We're all important. I see some comments in the forums on this topic that say things like, So what i don't need those tokens because I only have one char, or stop chasing the meta. Well, let your fellow players play the way they want. If they want the meta let them have it. If they want to RP let them. If they want to trade only or pvp only let them. If they want to log on just to craft items for people. Fine. If they want to complain about an unfair situation to ZOS. Let them be.

Now, I could've said "ok to hell with it. I can afford the race and name changes for all of my chars, and as a player since Beta I have every slot unlocked and full. So it doesn't really have anything to do with me directly, but instead I read the complaints of my fellow players and the info from ZOS. I then looked at the situation closer, and saw something is foul here. So I got down in trenches here with my fellow players and said this is where the buck stops right here and right now, because I don't agree with ZOS's stance and I do agree the player base is right to complain and right to ask for free race and name changes for all chars. This shouldn't be a player burden to bear. If I go buy those tokens now. I'd be supporting ZOS charging people for a mistake that ZOS made. I won't do that.

This is a balancing issue. We didn't pick the wrong races and just willy nilly want to change. No. They made a mistake and instead of owning it and giving us the name and race changes free per char, they want us to foot the bill, a very expensive one at that. They claim in multiple posts that they've been actively working on balancing and that ESO plus pays for things like servers, balancing, and all of the other costs they have. Now add the expansions and dlcs costs to that over the years.

So why? Why are we to pay for a balancing issue when we already pay for balance? We sometimes get our skill respecs for free, and sometimes reduced for 1 gold per point for each char when they do balancing. So now, because these changes cost real money for us, they don't want to give us the race/name changes for free even though the changes were caused by their mistake and are part of supposed balancing. I think not. The race/name changes cost nothing for them. They only cost something for us, but we didn't make the mistake so why? why should we pay our hard earned money for someone else's mistake?

They could give us tokens with timers that last only until the next scheduled patch date just like any other respec, or patch in resets for all of our characters names and races, but instead they shifted the cost on us. No thanks ZOS. YOu can do better.

Starlock

My general assessment of the situation is this:

Some Players: I have decided I want to be a power gamer and min-maxer, and must be competitive at PvP/trials/etc

Developers: *inevitable changes to game mechanics*

Some Players: How dare you make changes that make me change my characters because of my decision to be a power gamer and min-maxer!

Take responsibility for your decisions, guys. If you decide to be a power gamer, you need to either accept the consequences of that decision or consider amending your fixation on power gaming. There is only a cost because YOU insist on holding to particular expectations; that's not the developer's responsibility, it's YOURS. You WILL have to deal with this again. Over, and over, and over. You are not entitled to ANY developer compensation for this.

eso_nya

They seem to be very concerned on how much new players join per timeframe and try very hard to show ppl who have been here for a while the door.

Or maybe they just hate me, for sitting around here saying stuff like "there once was loyalty rewards for being subbed for x month/years", "subs got extras on f2p weekends", "i can drop the game and return in 5 years and will still be above cp cap", "there is no endgame", "craglorn has more 'features' than any chapter and was free", "u said subs will never have to pay for dlc", "spellcrafting was 'nearly done' in 2014".
yeah, is prolly easier to deal with new ppl without expectations that never heard the promisses of the past.

Tandor

It doesn't affect me as I won't be changing any of my many characters, they are what they are, but I do think there should be unlimited free race changes for a strictly limited time.

Synnastix

I have been a main cat templar hybrid since beta, no intention of changing so long as my pickpocket and stealth bonuses stick around.

That said, my other toons are bit sad.

Lizard tank - sad, but glad to see swim speed stick around
Redguard stamblade - sad, wanted ultimate stams
Dunmer magDK - sad, wanted flamey flames

The reality of it all is i never played min/max anything, just not my thing.

AlnilamE

And what did we do when they changed racial passives in the past and there wasn't even a race change to begin with?

Or are you not that old?

Arrodisia

People complained about every balance change not just this one, but the threads ended locked just like the others yesterday and today. Yes, even though some of those threads offered solutions.they were shut down, because we don't agree with this shady business disguised as balancing, and the people who have no clue what's going on defend them. Btw balance is included in our Eso plus according to ZOS's statements over the years. So why are we repaying for balance?

jainiadral

...and here middle-aged and crustifying me was wondering if the changes were going to be different for those of us on the downslope of life's mountain.

Never mind

eso_lags

Starlock wrote: »

My general assessment of the situation is this:

Some Players: I have decided I want to be a power gamer and min-maxer, and must be competitive at PvP/trials/etc

Developers: *inevitable changes to game mechanics*

Some Players: How dare you make changes that make me change my characters because of my decision to be a power gamer and min-maxer!

Take responsibility for your decisions, guys. If you decide to be a power gamer, you need to either accept the consequences of that decision or consider amending your fixation on power gaming. There is only a cost because YOU insist on holding to particular expectations; that's not the developer's responsibility, it's YOURS. You WILL have to deal with this again. Over, and over, and over. You are not entitled to ANY developer compensation for this.

This hostility always seems to come from people who RP or people who play casual. I mean you are 100% entitled to your opinion and at least you are nice enough to show it to us all. I know when you are questing or role playing it doesnt mean anything to have the right race, but for some of us it does.

For some of us who like to do the hardest content the game has to offer, it does. For some of us who like to go into cyrodil alone, every little bit matters. If you understood pvp, or endgame pve content, you would know that someone with a race that does nothing for them will usually do worse than someone who has a race that benefits them in multiple ways. At least if the players are both competent with what they are doing..

A race nerf is not the same as a class nerf. If they nerf some aspect of a class, or a skill, you can work around it. There are still other options most of the time. If they remove something theres a chance you can get it back, sure at the cost of something else but you still can try to work around it. Nerfing races is different. Zos does not allow you to change your race without paying.

You are literally blaming people for not wanting to be sucked into a blatant cash grab aimed at any competitive-somewhat competitive players in the game. Thats truly sad. Im sorry i dont want to go into pvp on an orc stam sorc, or any class tbh, thats lost nearly all the healing i had and a good amount of my max health/stam.

But in the end i suppose it just comes down to people only caring about what they care about. This is how people are. Its sad that some players have so much resentment towards other types of players.. Sure I have a bias when it comes to pvp, but i dont want to see zos ruin the rest of the game for so many people just to make pvp better.

Its also funny how a lot of people cant see that this is a cash grab. Who does it hurt to give 1 race change per character? The fact that you have to pay money, and not gold, to change your race/appearance is a joke. But after massive changes like this it seems only logical. And zos isnt losing anything. Thankfully some people who dont care about these changes, like the post below, still have common sense to see its a bit unreasonable for them to not give more than 1 per account.

Tandor wrote: »

It doesn't affect me as I won't be changing any of my many characters, they are what they are, but I do think there should be unlimited free race changes for a strictly limited time.

Couldnt agree more.

Sylvermynx

jainiadral wrote: »

...and here middle-aged and crustifying me was wondering if the changes were going to be different for those of us on the downslope of life's mountain.

Never mind

Me too.... and I specifically left off the hashtag.... for obvious reasons!

jcm2606

Starlock wrote: »

My general assessment of the situation is this:

Some Players: I have decided I want to be a power gamer and min-maxer, and must be competitive at PvP/trials/etc

Developers: *inevitable changes to game mechanics*

Some Players: How dare you make changes that make me change my characters because of my decision to be a power gamer and min-maxer!

Take responsibility for your decisions, guys. If you decide to be a power gamer, you need to either accept the consequences of that decision or consider amending your fixation on power gaming. There is only a cost because YOU insist on holding to particular expectations; that's not the developer's responsibility, it's YOURS. You WILL have to deal with this again. Over, and over, and over. You are not entitled to ANY developer compensation for this.

Stop defending a corporation screwing their consumers over. Actually getting really tired of seeing this as of late. Zenimax is getting ready to screw over the player base, and not only are you bending over, but you're also ridiculing others who don't bend over. Stand up for yourself. Stand up for the consumer. Don't be a sheep.

Girl_Number8

Anastian wrote: »

Hi all.
As a player that is here since a while, I am a bit concerned about the current money request on behalf of ZoS. The team is giving us only one free race change when we probably have at least 1 pvp, 1 pve character and usually way more characters than that, while also asking us to purchase Elseweyr for 40€.

I am not complaining about the prices themselves, they are fair, but the older player base might have built their characters on the previous races and, in order to reach the desired performance on that character, would have to purchase 1 race change per char. Isn't this a bit... Too much, considering that race changes cost 3k crowns?

I am sincerely concerned because before, crowns were necessary for cosmetic items, and you could avoid purchasing those, but now just to play the game at its peak, you also need to purchase loads of race change tokens for all of your characters. I don't know, I feel like players who have an X amount of hours on some older characters should get multiple race change tokens, and not just one. What's your opinion, forums?

PS: don't start with: you can play without the BiS race etc, I really want to see you entering a raid group for immortal redeemer with a khajiit mage.

I agree. They should offer a simple race change option (once) for each character you have now, with a time limit of 7 to 14 days. This would be fair to us that have been here since the start and a lot of people that have invested so much into their many builds because of how the game was designed. I don't feel we should have to pay enough to buy a console for Zos's greed and incompetence in balancing issues.

Gronk

jcm2606 they cant help it. Born without spines they are. Conditioned to kowtow and conform. Brainwashed to group think and newspeak.

I have a few slots still open and no need to change my characters they are what they are. The money grab is disturbing. It is calculated and pre-planned. Off line I talked to me GM about how this is progressing and escalating. Maybe this was EW's hill.

Catlandia is pricey and for those who do not purchase it and are waiting for it to be free like Morrowind are faced with another check system pay to fix race change they are not happy with. Money.

It's about money on tokens that would not be needed otherwise.

jluchau

Interestingly enough, i've been in the game since beta and my first toon at game launch was a khajiit mage. I wasn't too concerned about BiS at the time or even playing the game at that level. When it did become important to me to perform at a higher level I did a race change to high elf and focused on being the best I could. The game has changed a lot over the years. It changes every major update. I don't think ZoS owes older players anything free, but I do think it's nice that they are giving us one free race change token. I think the idea that anyone NEEDS to buy LOADS of tokens is a bit of an exaggeration. Perhaps you may want to buy a few, but honestly if you were really against spending money you could just as easily re-roll a character. The time investment to level to max for someone who's been around as long as you seem to be indicating isn't really that much. I personally am happy for changes and balances like this, they keep me coming back to try new things and make adjustments. Also, I think I may go back to my khajiit mage, while he was never the best DPS he sure was a lot of fun, I think that's how i'll spend my free race change

SilentFox22

Race change token does not include a Name Change....Wuuuut?!?!?

Rudyard

Older players , at least the ones at release, signed onto this game when it was a pay-to-play game in part so that we wouldn't have to put up with the crowd in most MMOs complaining because they didn't get yet another thing free.

VaranisArano

SilentFox22 wrote: »

Race change token does not include a Name Change....Wuuuut?!?!?

I know, right?

Its not like most Elder Scroll races have distinctive naming patterns or anything like that.

You certainly can't tell what race characters named Titus Aurelius, Rulindarwe, Harrald the Hungry, Morza gra-Bolok, or Suraya al-Elinhir are supposed to be...


ZOS needs to include a free name change with that free race change. Otherwise, people are going to be stuck with mis-matched names or have to buy a name change token to fix it.

Sibenice

Starlock wrote: »

My general assessment of the situation is this:

Some Players: I have decided I want to be a power gamer and min-maxer, and must be competitive at PvP/trials/etc

Developers: *inevitable changes to game mechanics*

Some Players: How dare you make changes that make me change my characters because of my decision to be a power gamer and min-maxer!

Take responsibility for your decisions, guys. If you decide to be a power gamer, you need to either accept the consequences of that decision or consider amending your fixation on power gaming. There is only a cost because YOU insist on holding to particular expectations; that's not the developer's responsibility, it's YOURS. You WILL have to deal with this again. Over, and over, and over. You are not entitled to ANY developer compensation for this.

The difference is, until now, fixing your character back to meta after changes has never cost real money. It's one thing to have to go grind out another set of gear, mats for upgrading, enchants, etc because you're playing the game to get what you need to be the best you can. It's another to simply have to drop $30 per character after the first. This is why people are upset.