Racial Passives - Suggestion Thread

Rukzadlithau

Read the official upcoming changes here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1

/edited for more clarity

My Suggestions:

Argonian:

• Resourceful: Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion. Reduces the cool down effect of your Potions by 8 seconds. Upon consuming a Potion you gain Minor Fortitude/Intellect/Endurance for 37 seconds.
• Argonian Resistance: Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
• Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 4%. Amphibious Strenght: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.

Bosmer:

• Y’ffre’s Endurance: Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds. Ignore Movement Speed penalty of Sneak. After you use Roll Dodge you gain Major Expedition for 3 seconds.

Dark Elf:

• Dynamic: Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250 2000. Reduces the cost of your Abilities by 3% (global, ult etc.).
• Resist Flame: Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect.
• Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258 129.

Imperial:

• Tough: Increases your Max Health by 2000.
• Conditioning: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
• Red Diamond: When you deal Direct block Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5% 9%.

Khajiit:

• Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 129 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75 129.
• Lunar Blessings: Increases your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 750.
• Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m. Ignore Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.

Orc:

• Brawny: Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500 1000.
• Unflinching: Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. When you deal damage (any) you restore 1000 Health every 4 seconds.
• Swift Warrior: Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%. Increases your Movement Speed by 8%.

ArgonianAustin

Yeah argonians got nothing new added or replaced like the other races. They simply just got nerfed in everything they had.

sneakymitchell

ArgonianAustin wrote: »

Yeah argonians got nothing new added or replaced like the other races. They simply just got nerfed in everything they had.

They are over performing right now needed a tone down. But still keeps most passives not like it’s switching out the pot regen with a random regen of everything like khajiit.
You can still stick too the playstyle but it’s tone done cause the tankness it could provide.

ankeor

Buzo wrote: »

Dark Elf: Weapon/Spell Damage should be halfed to 129 each.

You can not use both weapon and spell damage effectively at the same time. There is no reason to cut them in half. Mag build wise High Elf has the same value of spell damage with larger mag pool and better sustain. Stam build wise orc also has the same value of weapon damage with again better sustain.

Neoauspex

Argonian: needs testing on PTS before final judgement

Bosmer: probably should test on PTS before any final decisions are made

Dark Elf: I'm pretty panicked about this one, but I'm gonna wait until I can test it before I make any rash decisions

Imperial: changes aren't even on PTS yet

Etc: etc etc.

Narvuntien

Dumner MagDK was a common race/class combo these changes make this less optimal.
Proposed solution: know you removed the % damage types from the race classes but fire damage was so important to Dumners current play styles. I propose we lose the random extra hp passive and replace it with a damage bonus to fire and poison to play up their dual natures. It would be strong but sustain will still be an issue but it will retain the dumner dragonknight combo that is important to players.

Bosmers (particularly nightblades) don't have damage and minimal sustain passives.
Proposed soultion: Hmm I would think bonus damage to ranged attack but then you removed the opposite from the orcs so you don't want that and it helps wardens not nightblades. So I propose Stamina cost reduction for Class skills as a sort of mirror to redgaurds and their weapon skills passive. Nightblades use Suprise attack as their major skill.

Vapirko

Not only are there already threads like this, how can you start offering suggestions before even getting on PTS? Also your orc suggestions sound kind of terrible, although I do think their max stam is going to be too low, but that’s why I’ll be downloading the PTS to try and offer legitimate suggestions.

RedTalon

My Imperial Templar perma block is going to rock more now!

Also can dust off my orc now instead of fully retiring them Which would have been a shame given he was my first char

Rukzadlithau

Vapirko wrote: »

Not only are there already threads like this, how can you start offering suggestions before even getting on PTS? Also your orc suggestions sound kind of terrible, although I do think their max stam is going to be too low, but that’s why I’ll be downloading the PTS to try and offer legitimate suggestions.

I could also have told you how terribly op the Enchant proc conditions were before it even hit the pts. But sure go ahead and TeSt it to offer your LeGiTiMaTe suggestions, if u can‘t make out what‘s lacking from spreadsheets.

Vapirko

Buzo wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Not only are there already threads like this, how can you start offering suggestions before even getting on PTS? Also your orc suggestions sound kind of terrible, although I do think their max stam is going to be too low, but that’s why I’ll be downloading the PTS to try and offer legitimate suggestions.

I could also have told you how terribly op the Enchant proc conditions were before it even hit the pts. But sure go ahead and TeSt it to offer your LeGiTiMaTe suggestions, if u can‘t make out what‘s lacking from spreadsheets.

I guarantee you that none of the racial changes are anywhere near as bad as the enchant proc issue. Wtf do you think ZOS is gonna do? Buff all the races to help power creep? This is a BALANCE pass. Not a buff my favorite race pass.

Rukzadlithau

Vapirko wrote: »

Buzo wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Not only are there already threads like this, how can you start offering suggestions before even getting on PTS? Also your orc suggestions sound kind of terrible, although I do think their max stam is going to be too low, but that’s why I’ll be downloading the PTS to try and offer legitimate suggestions.

I could also have told you how terribly op the Enchant proc conditions were before it even hit the pts. But sure go ahead and TeSt it to offer your LeGiTiMaTe suggestions, if u can‘t make out what‘s lacking from spreadsheets.

I guarantee you that none of the racial changes are anywhere near as bad as the enchant proc issue. Wtf do you think ZOS is gonna do? Buff all the races to help power creep? This is a BALANCE pass. Not a buff my favorite race pass.

Great Balance if people can already make out what‘s significantly better - BUT, you‘ll need to see that on pts... Also did you figure what‘s my fav race already?

Tommy_The_Gun

Argonian ideas /sugestion:
Resourceful:
Leave it as it is but add 44 sec cooldown to it (so the combo with infused potion cooldown jewelry wont be cousing super-high sustain anymore).

Or:

Buff base value for stamina and magicka by 200 (3600 -> 3800) and make health restore slightly higher (in line with set bonuses from gear that provide 10% more health bonus than magicka & stamina) - so 4060 health. So the bonuses will be:
3800 stamina, 3800 magicka, 4060 health.

Otherwise, simply speaking Redguards will be a far better option for tanking & sustain - since % health bonus are removed.

Qiuck to Mend (Live Mender):
Change inreased healing done by 4% to healing done & healing received. If necessary change the values to 3%.

Part of the reason why argonians were good tanks is that it was easier for healers to heal them.

Or (if it is going to be passive exclusively for healers):

Change 4% to 8% healing done.
Otherwise argonias will have nothing to offer as a healers simply because bretons with 7% magicka skill cost reduction will be better in every posible way.

Mayrael

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Argonian ideas /sugestion:
Resourceful:
Leave it as it is but add 44 sec cooldown to it (so the combo with infused potion cooldown jewelry wont be cousing super-high sustain anymore).

Or:

Buff base value for stamina and magicka by 200 (3600 -> 3800) and make health restore slightly higher (in line with set bonuses from gear that provide 10% more health bonus than magicka & stamina) - so 4060 health. So the bonuses will be:
3800 stamina, 3800 magicka, 4060 health.

Otherwise, simply speaking Redguards will be a far better option for tanking & sustain - since % health bonus are removed.

Qiuck to Mend (Live Mender):
Change inreased healing done by 4% to healing done & healing received. If necessary change the values to 3%.

Part of the reason why argonians were good tanks is that it was easier for healers to heal them.

Or (if it is going to be passive exclusively for healers):

Change 4% to 8% healing done.
Otherwise argonias will have nothing to offer as a healers simply because bretons with 7% magicka skill cost reduction will be better in every posible way.

Nah, you don't know how forum works. They blame X race/class/skill/set for being op, whine untill it gets nerfed and ZOS doesn't know such term as "slight reduction", they go nerferker mode and nerf it to the ground so nobody plays it. Few months later the same people ask for buff to X because it's UP, so what ZOS do? They go in Buffinado mode... so the cycle closes.

Nerftheforums

Thank god you are not in the balancing team

Rukzadlithau

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Thank god you are not in the balancing team

Likewise. I‘ll just leave this here as an example. This pretty much sums up your understanding on issues.

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Instead of making bleeds *** and ask for nerfs, why not ask for a change? Rather, let's have bleed ignore a % of armour so that they deal more damage to HA builds and less to medium/light armor builds.

Rukzadlithau

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Argonian ideas /sugestion:
Resourceful:
Leave it as it is but add 44 sec cooldown to it (so the combo with infused potion cooldown jewelry wont be cousing super-high sustain anymore).

Or:

Buff base value for stamina and magicka by 200 (3600 -> 3800) and make health restore slightly higher (in line with set bonuses from gear that provide 10% more health bonus than magicka & stamina) - so 4060 health. So the bonuses will be:
3800 stamina, 3800 magicka, 4060 health.

Otherwise, simply speaking Redguards will be a far better option for tanking & sustain - since % health bonus are removed.

Qiuck to Mend (Live Mender):
Change inreased healing done by 4% to healing done & healing received. If necessary change the values to 3%.

Part of the reason why argonians were good tanks is that it was easier for healers to heal them.

Or (if it is going to be passive exclusively for healers):

Change 4% to 8% healing done.
Otherwise argonias will have nothing to offer as a healers simply because bretons with 7% magicka skill cost reduction will be better in every posible way.

Technically this makes sense, I just don‘t like how almost every Race got something new and Argonian just feels flat out nerfed.

Redguards also don‘t feel „new“ but Adrenaline Rush was one of the best passives since ever and simply buffing it (still a nerf compared to when it was % based) is satisfying enough I guess. The new Weapon Skill cost redux makes it interesting for non class spammable chars, where as Bosmer will offer the best sustain to specs with a class spammable.

Rukzadlithau

ankeor wrote: »

Buzo wrote: »

Dark Elf: Weapon/Spell Damage should be halfed to 129 each.

You can not use both weapon and spell damage effectively at the same time. There is no reason to cut them in half. Mag build wise High Elf has the same value of spell damage with larger mag pool and better sustain. Stam build wise orc also has the same value of weapon damage with again better sustain.

You‘re right.
I‘d still prefer to leave the values halved and maybe giving them a 3% general cost reduce (on skills, actions, ult etc.), so they also have a sustain element. I just don‘t like it the way it is, the damage bipolarity and highest effective weaponpower on this race seems abit too much.

ccmedaddy

My suggestion: ZOS should ignore all of the suggestions in the OP and just fine tune what they already have.

gmap516

I actually really like the new racial changes and I applaud the balance team and whoever else is in charge of these decisions for giving it a fairly good first pass.

My recommendation/suggestion is for a small tweak to Dunmer. In my opinion, they should get a small increase to their weapon/spell damage bonus to make up for their lack of a sustain bonus. This will bring them closer in line with their current place on live: better for damage if sustain isn't a concern.


I won't claim to be a balance expert so I won't have a solid numbers suggestion, but I think this is a fair approach. Maybe remove the health bonus as it stands in the current pass to allow for the increase to the damage bonus.

This will allow the new "meta" Magicka races to fill niches while not being as impactful as they are on live.

Altmer for well-balanced between sustain and damage

Breton for sustain focus

Dunmer for raw damage focus

Khajiit for crit damage focus


Thanks for listening!

Rukzadlithau

ccmedaddy wrote: »

My suggestion: ZOS should ignore all of the suggestions in the OP and just fine tune what they already have.

I see why you‘re contra balance :-)

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Wrobel was (and presumably still is) cute af. I'll miss him.

susmitds

gmap516 wrote: »

I actually really like the new racial changes and I applaud the balance team and whoever else is in charge of these decisions for giving it a fairly good first pass.

My recommendation/suggestion is for a small tweak to Dunmer. In my opinion, they should get a small increase to their weapon/spell damage bonus to make up for their lack of a sustain bonus. This will bring them closer in line with their current place on live: better for damage if sustain isn't a concern.


I won't claim to be a balance expert so I won't have a solid numbers suggestion, but I think this is a fair approach. Maybe remove the health bonus as it stands in the current pass to allow for the increase to the damage bonus.

This will allow the new "meta" Magicka races to fill niches while not being as impactful as they are on live.

Altmer for well-balanced between sustain and damage

Breton for sustain focus

Dunmer for raw damage focus

Khajiit for crit damage focus


Thanks for listening!

Dunmer is already highest raw damage on stamina side. That would make them broken.

gmap516

susmitds wrote: »

gmap516 wrote: »

I actually really like the new racial changes and I applaud the balance team and whoever else is in charge of these decisions for giving it a fairly good first pass.

My recommendation/suggestion is for a small tweak to Dunmer. In my opinion, they should get a small increase to their weapon/spell damage bonus to make up for their lack of a sustain bonus. This will bring them closer in line with their current place on live: better for damage if sustain isn't a concern.


I won't claim to be a balance expert so I won't have a solid numbers suggestion, but I think this is a fair approach. Maybe remove the health bonus as it stands in the current pass to allow for the increase to the damage bonus.

This will allow the new "meta" Magicka races to fill niches while not being as impactful as they are on live.

Altmer for well-balanced between sustain and damage

Breton for sustain focus

Dunmer for raw damage focus

Khajiit for crit damage focus


Thanks for listening!

Dunmer is already highest raw damage on stamina side. That would make them broken.

Did not consider that! Maybe then just an increase to max magicka, a small sustain bonus, or an increase to spell damage or crit.
I personally think Dunmer is ALMOST there for magicka, but needs a little love to make up for the lack of sustain.

Cinbri

gmap516 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

gmap516 wrote: »

I actually really like the new racial changes and I applaud the balance team and whoever else is in charge of these decisions for giving it a fairly good first pass.

My recommendation/suggestion is for a small tweak to Dunmer. In my opinion, they should get a small increase to their weapon/spell damage bonus to make up for their lack of a sustain bonus. This will bring them closer in line with their current place on live: better for damage if sustain isn't a concern.


I won't claim to be a balance expert so I won't have a solid numbers suggestion, but I think this is a fair approach. Maybe remove the health bonus as it stands in the current pass to allow for the increase to the damage bonus.

This will allow the new "meta" Magicka races to fill niches while not being as impactful as they are on live.

Altmer for well-balanced between sustain and damage

Breton for sustain focus

Dunmer for raw damage focus

Khajiit for crit damage focus


Thanks for listening!

Dunmer is already highest raw damage on stamina side. That would make them broken.

Did not consider that! Maybe then just an increase to max magicka, a small sustain bonus, or an increase to spell damage or crit.
I personally think Dunmer is ALMOST there for magicka, but needs a little love to make up for the lack of sustain.

Boosting only magicka is not contradict lore as dunmers are literally same altmers that just chose other way in life.

gmap516

Cinbri wrote: »

gmap516 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

gmap516 wrote: »

I actually really like the new racial changes and I applaud the balance team and whoever else is in charge of these decisions for giving it a fairly good first pass.

My recommendation/suggestion is for a small tweak to Dunmer. In my opinion, they should get a small increase to their weapon/spell damage bonus to make up for their lack of a sustain bonus. This will bring them closer in line with their current place on live: better for damage if sustain isn't a concern.


I won't claim to be a balance expert so I won't have a solid numbers suggestion, but I think this is a fair approach. Maybe remove the health bonus as it stands in the current pass to allow for the increase to the damage bonus.

This will allow the new "meta" Magicka races to fill niches while not being as impactful as they are on live.

Altmer for well-balanced between sustain and damage

Breton for sustain focus

Dunmer for raw damage focus

Khajiit for crit damage focus


Thanks for listening!

Dunmer is already highest raw damage on stamina side. That would make them broken.

Did not consider that! Maybe then just an increase to max magicka, a small sustain bonus, or an increase to spell damage or crit.
I personally think Dunmer is ALMOST there for magicka, but needs a little love to make up for the lack of sustain.

Boosting only magicka is not contradict lore as dunmers are literally same altmers that just chose other way in life.

Oh, I absolutely agree but if they want them to stand apart from altmer a little bit aside from being a worse option for magicka, they can add a bonus that altmer don't have. As it stands now for magicka characters the only thing dunmer get that altmer don't is, what, 500 health? And they lose 750 magicka AND the sustain bonuses

Ragnaroek93

Buzo wrote: »

Bosmer: Roll Dodge should provide Major Expedition for 4 sec, this should be a niche for mobile Stamina specs without Bow/DW.

I see the reason behind your thoughts but I think excluding bow builds from this passive is wrong. It might help other classes than Nb to become viable on bow builds (they would still need a good spammable ability tho) and it might be balanced on Nb either since I'm pretty sure they'll nerf Nb (word on the street is that Incap gets rekt). Need to wait for other changes and for PTS to test this, also heavily depends if the passive is applied at the beginn of the roll or afterwards.

jpl7340

I don’t really care where the land as far as changes go honestly. The only thing that I’m VERY concerned about is how many race change tokens we get. And imo anything less than the amount of characters we have at the time of the change will be horribly inadequate. I have TWELVE lvl50 characters, and I’ve put in ALOT of time and effort into all of them. And I chose their race based on what was considered “best” for the build that I was going for. At the very least, race change tokens should be heavily discounted for a period (as in ~$1). Limit them to 15/account or to however many characters are currently on the account, idc. Just PLEASE don’t make me spend a small fortune if I want to update the race on my characters after these huge changes (because I simply won’t and I’ll just be very angry about it).

lokipestilence

I am a bit disappointing in the overall bland aspects given to the dark elf, Its loss of identity when compared to the other races and uniqueness given to them, Dark elves now seem bland. Im really hoping that the revisit this and think of better changes. The imperial may need to be looked at as well and the wood elf is a bit too intense with that dodge roll skill.
But if deciding to change up some passives, especially to point that a race is either no longer quite sufficient or feasible with certain builds or play style, at least give some race change tokens at low cost... Like mentioned prior, I have specific builds with specific specs that are maximised by said chosen races. Eg, Dark Elf Dragon Knight, with its once flame damage bonus that's now gone. I now have to revisit this build to maximise it due to the overall damage towards the Dark Elf passives. Dark Elves, though seem to be now more suitable for position for stamina builds but still, I think flame damage and bonus with its flame resistances were apart of their over all skill identity.
I suppose there is good and bad, but with a stamina, dps build and what looks like the low sustain, well who is to say. I do know some aspects I hope get re looked at such as the Dark Elf.

Rukzadlithau

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Buzo wrote: »

Bosmer: Roll Dodge should provide Major Expedition for 4 sec, this should be a niche for mobile Stamina specs without Bow/DW.

I see the reason behind your thoughts but I think excluding bow builds from this passive is wrong. It might help other classes than Nb to become viable on bow builds (they would still need a good spammable ability tho) and it might be balanced on Nb either since I'm pretty sure they'll nerf Nb (word on the street is that Incap gets rekt). Need to wait for other changes and for PTS to test this, also heavily depends if the passive is applied at the beginn of the roll or afterwards.

The problem here is Cloak, specifically the force miss - not Incap which is another problem in itself. A Dodge Roll into Cloak and then escapeing at 50% movement speed will be more out of control than it is now. Even on other classes I don‘t like the change, as said, this doesn‘t build a niche but rather allows the stack with Major Expedition to overperform via Dodge Roll as defensive Maneuver (imagine a dodge roll into Blackrose Quick Cloak). 10% on the other hand is lackluster as would be Minor Expedition. Let‘s see what tomorrows notes bring. I still think this should become the pick for Melee Stam builds that don‘t have a reliable way to incorporate Major Expedition and I‘d love if Major Expedition would generally get better uptimes again.

Carbon

Yeah, give to the bosmers major expedition, make them completely useless...

TankHealz2015

I like the changes overall, but some people have mentioned that Nord is now far better than Imperial
This is for a PvE Tank - dungeons and trials (mostly PUG & dungeon finder groups)
What adjustment would make Imperial vs Nord a more competitive decision?

actosh

Imperialös need either way more flat ressources, or a truly special 3rd passive that doesnt limit them to tanking only.
The costreduction is a fail, no matter how big the values would be, cause as a tank u got enough of that allready.