Buff Khajiit SUSTAIN passive (wraithstone)???!!!!

nsmurfer

Khajiit - Nimble: 20% Health Recovery and 10% Stamina Recovery → Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75.
Bosmer - Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.

Previously both were pretty similar in overall effectiveness, khajiit offering more regen total but on two different resources while Wood elf got more on one resource. Now bosmer has more total regen on one resource than khajiit has on three resources.

Also Orc - When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. This is equivalent to 380 stam regen (unbuffable) as long as a weapon spammable is used. so better sustain on Stam sorc, stam DK and possibly stam stamnecro as well.
Redguard well, we all know about redguards.

susmitds

Buff khajiit magicka/stamina to 150 but drop health regen all together. (lets be real - 100 health regen is useless - the previous 20% Hp regen is at least useful)

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_Wrobel

Mashille

nsmurfer wrote: »

Also Orc - When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. This is equivalent to 380 stam regen (unbuffable) as long as a weapon spammable is used.

Not that I'm disagreeing with your point about the Khajiit's needing a bit extra but this is incorrect. Recovery applies every 2 Seconds. So the Orc's new passive is the same as 190 Stamina and Health Recovery.

I go into detail on all the new passives here if anyone wants to check it out: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5736722#Comment_5736722

NoTimeToWait

nope

Maybe like 100 regen in Stamina would seem better, but the difference is almost non-existent, so we quite don't need it altogether. I mean, it's better that, than be overpowered and receive massive nerf somewhat later

nsmurfer

Buff Khajiit all resources regen to 120-150 each.

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Maybe like 100 regen in Stamina would seem better, but the difference is almost non-existent, so we quite don't need it altogether.

Every other stamina race (Bosmer, Redguard, Orc +even altmer) including ones with already the best sustain got buffed in the stamina sustain category. If khajiit is the only one unbuffed, it is an indirect nerf. Dunmer already beats khajiit in the raw dps category.

nsmurfer

Buff Khajiit all resources regen to 120-150 each.

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Maybe like 100 regen in Stamina would seem better, but the difference is almost non-existent, so we quite don't need it altogether. I mean, it's better that, than be overpowered and receive massive nerf somewhat later

Khajiit sustain is worse than every other stamina race and the other hybrid race dunmer takes the first place in raw DPS. khajiit pvE DPS lost its niche to basically become a worse universal race than dunmer.

nsmurfer

Buff Khajiit all resources regen to 120-150 each.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Crixus8000

Buff Khajiit all resources regen to 120-150 each.

Lol so I wont have ANY race with hp regen. This is becoming annoying. And if many see hp regen as useless then why not just leave it for us who actually make use of it.

Azyle1

Buff khajiit magicka/stamina to 150 but drop health regen all together. (lets be real - 100 health regen is useless - the previous 20% Hp regen is at least useful)

nsmurfer wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Maybe like 100 regen in Stamina would seem better, but the difference is almost non-existent, so we quite don't need it altogether. I mean, it's better that, than be overpowered and receive massive nerf somewhat later

Khajiit sustain is worse than every other stamina race and the other hybrid race dunmer takes the first place in raw DPS. khajiit pvE DPS lost its niche to basically become a worse universal race than dunmer.

While I think Khajiit should get a boost in sustain, even a little, DarkElf will have trouble sustaining and likely have to substitute damage somewhere down the road.

Seraphayel

Buff Khajiit all resources regen to 120-150 each.

Buff Khajiits, furstocks are my new main race.

Zelos

Buff khajiit magicka/stamina to 150 but drop health regen all together. (lets be real - 100 health regen is useless - the previous 20% Hp regen is at least useful)

This is a good statement 20% health regen was good but 100 health regen is non existent. I'd rather buff magicka and stamina regen and drop health regen.

nsmurfer

Buff Khajiit all resources regen to 120-150 each.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Lol so I wont have ANY race with hp regen. This is becoming annoying. And if many see hp regen as useless then why not just leave it for us who actually make use of it.

The 100 HP regen is not even a proper regen passive. hP regen lesser Than 400-500 at least, is hardly even feelable. The previous passive was a multiplier, so you can stack regen and get even as high 1k regen out of it.

Crixus8000

Buff Khajiit all resources regen to 120-150 each.

nsmurfer wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Lol so I wont have ANY race with hp regen. This is becoming annoying. And if many see hp regen as useless then why not just leave it for us who actually make use of it.

The 100 HP regen is not even a proper regen passive. hP regen lesser Than 400-500 at least, is hardly even feelable. The previous passive was a multiplier, so you can stack regen and get even as high 1k regen out of it.

Yes thats why I would like it increased. It should be much more than 100, as the mag and stam should be higher too.

Ahzek

Buff khajiit magicka/stamina to 150 but drop health regen all together. (lets be real - 100 health regen is useless - the previous 20% Hp regen is at least useful)

susmitds wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_Wrobel

Wrobble's tag was just @wrobble. Thats irrelevant however, since Wrobble is no longer with ZOS. If you want to tag the leat comabt designer you gotta tag @ZOS_BrianWheeler .

Elwendryll

nope

Why don't you wait for the PTS to actually test the changes? On the paper, Khajiit stamina regen got BUFFED in pve, and we get max stats. But now, all the bonuses have been mirrored to magicka. I don't see anything to complain about. Can you play magicka bosmer?

susmitds

Buff khajiit magicka/stamina to 150 but drop health regen all together. (lets be real - 100 health regen is useless - the previous 20% Hp regen is at least useful)

Elwendryll wrote: »

Why don't you wait for the PTS to actually test the changes? On the paper, Khajiit stamina regen got BUFFED in pve, and we get max stats. But now, all the bonuses have been mirrored to magicka. I don't see anything to complain about. Can you play magicka bosmer?

It didn't get buffed. In the best case scenario with blue food, you gain 10 stam regen. In other cases, like with 3k Stam regen PvP rollerblades, you lose 200+ stam regen.
All other stamina races got a massive stamina regen buff, except Khajiit. PvPwise, it is a big nerf. Bosmer 20% speed is probaly the most broken non-stat passive in the game. MagTemp bosmer is looking great.

Also, dont forget the 20% Health Regen passive we had. WIth just Troll king, it essentially allowed Stage 3 vampires to nullify Vampire health regen debuff. 100 Health regen is woefully low.

MartiniDaniels

nope

There are 3 underperfoming races in comparison to khajiit - dunmer, bosmer, imperial. Before buffing those, buffing khajiit will only make gap wider.
Given how dps scales, 8% crit is MUCH better in PVE then raw 258 damage. In PVP khajiit is under dog of course due to impen gear, and extra 50-75 regen won't save it.

MartiniDaniels

nope

nsmurfer wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Maybe like 100 regen in Stamina would seem better, but the difference is almost non-existent, so we quite don't need it altogether.

Every other stamina race (Bosmer, Redguard, Orc +even altmer) including ones with already the best sustain got buffed in the stamina sustain category. If khajiit is the only one unbuffed, it is an indirect nerf. Dunmer already beats khajiit in the raw dps category.

How dunmer can beat khajiit in dps category?

8% crit with 90% crit damage = + 7.2% to all damage on top all the buffs, cp, etc.
258 dunmer's damage is good, but look nobody uses warrior mundus in PVE, every dps run either thief or lover.

susmitds

Buff khajiit magicka/stamina to 150 but drop health regen all together. (lets be real - 100 health regen is useless - the previous 20% Hp regen is at least useful)

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

There are 3 underperfoming races in comparison to khajiit - dunmer, bosmer, imperial. Before buffing those, buffing khajiit will only gap wider.
Given how damage scales, 8% crit is MUCH better in PVE then raw 258 damage. In PVP khajiit is under dog of course due to impen gear, and extra 50-75 regen won't save it.

258 Raw Damage is buffable. 8% crit is not. 8% crit is better only in perfect group and if your class has crit damage bonus and no weapon damage bonus.

Dunmer is actually beating Khajiit significantly in raw damage numbers, Bosmer has the exact same sustain as Redguard this time around without its conditional nature by gaining on average 200 stam regen in meta PvE builds and given how good Redguard is, Bosmer is very close to the number one spot.

Imperial easily swap the 2k Health for more stamina by not investing in health at all and do just fine.

Previously, Khajiit had the highest PvE raw numbers and the best PvE stamina race if your class had innate good sustain and good group sustain support. Now, they are in the middle of the pack in PvE being overtaken by Orc, dunmer and bosmer and bottom tier in PvP.

MartiniDaniels

nope

susmitds wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

There are 3 underperfoming races in comparison to khajiit - dunmer, bosmer, imperial. Before buffing those, buffing khajiit will only gap wider.
Given how damage scales, 8% crit is MUCH better in PVE then raw 258 damage. In PVP khajiit is under dog of course due to impen gear, and extra 50-75 regen won't save it.

258 Raw Damage is buffable. 8% crit is not. 8% crit is better only in perfect group and if your class has crit damage bonus and no weapon damage bonus.

Dunmer is actually beating Khajiit significantly in raw damage numbers, Bosmer has the exact same sustain as Redguard this time around without its conditional nature by gaining on average 200 stam regen in meta PvE builds and given how good Redguard is, Bosmer is very close to the number one spot.

Imperial easily swap the 2k Health for more stamina by not investing in health at all and do just fine.

Previously, Khajiit had the highest PvE raw numbers and the best PvE stamina race if your class had innate good sustain and good group sustain support. Now, they are in the middle of the pack in PvE being overtaken by Orc, dunmer and bosmer and bottom tier in PvP.

It's all against the practice. In practice 8% crit >> 258 damage. I repeat - no person caring about his/her dps uses damage mundus in pve. Now on live servers dunmer has 9% magicka which gives ~ 3.5-4k bonus on maxmagicka builds + 7% damage to fire, obviously it's good stats which better then just 8% crit on current khajiit stambuilds. But after patch dunmer will have only 500 more magicka or stamina and no sustain at all.

nsmurfer

Buff Khajiit all resources regen to 120-150 each.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Maybe like 100 regen in Stamina would seem better, but the difference is almost non-existent, so we quite don't need it altogether.

Every other stamina race (Bosmer, Redguard, Orc +even altmer) including ones with already the best sustain got buffed in the stamina sustain category. If khajiit is the only one unbuffed, it is an indirect nerf. Dunmer already beats khajiit in the raw dps category.

How dunmer can beat khajiit in dps category?

8% crit with 90% crit damage = + 7.2% to all damage on top all the buffs, cp, etc.
258 dunmer's damage is good, but look nobody uses warrior mundus in PVE, every dps run either thief or lover.

You reach 90% crit damage if you consider 100% Major force uptime. Average crit damage bonus is around 70-80% max. 258 weapon damage becomes (258)*(1+0.2 major brut+0.08FDB+0.03trap+0.1Minor brut+0.15Medium armor)=403 Weapon Damage. For Stamplar, it is 416 Weapon damage.

416 Weapon Damage>8% crit in Pve and massively greater than 8% crit in PvP


This is the main reason, redgaurd is BiS and not Khajiit. also not all classes have crit damage bonus in which case, it is even lower. Also Dunmer has 500 higher stamina as well as magcika as khajiit, which gets boost by 20% CP and other passives so more like 600-700 extra both resources. This can translate to 60 more Weapon damage. Acco

susmitds

Buff khajiit magicka/stamina to 150 but drop health regen all together. (lets be real - 100 health regen is useless - the previous 20% Hp regen is at least useful)

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

There are 3 underperfoming races in comparison to khajiit - dunmer, bosmer, imperial. Before buffing those, buffing khajiit will only gap wider.
Given how damage scales, 8% crit is MUCH better in PVE then raw 258 damage. In PVP khajiit is under dog of course due to impen gear, and extra 50-75 regen won't save it.

258 Raw Damage is buffable. 8% crit is not. 8% crit is better only in perfect group and if your class has crit damage bonus and no weapon damage bonus.

Dunmer is actually beating Khajiit significantly in raw damage numbers, Bosmer has the exact same sustain as Redguard this time around without its conditional nature by gaining on average 200 stam regen in meta PvE builds and given how good Redguard is, Bosmer is very close to the number one spot.

Imperial easily swap the 2k Health for more stamina by not investing in health at all and do just fine.

Previously, Khajiit had the highest PvE raw numbers and the best PvE stamina race if your class had innate good sustain and good group sustain support. Now, they are in the middle of the pack in PvE being overtaken by Orc, dunmer and bosmer and bottom tier in PvP.

It's all against the practice. In practice 8% crit >> 258 damage. I repeat - no person caring about his/her dps uses damage mundus in pve. Now on live servers dunmer has 9% magicka which gives ~ 3.5-4k bonus on maxmagicka builds + 7% damage to fire, obviously it's good stats which better then just 8% crit on current khajiit stambuilds. But after patch dunmer will have only 500 more magicka or stamina and no sustain at all.

Check Masel's breakdown using standard Relequen+AY gear. Believe it or not, Dunmer has the highest raw damage of the pack.

nsmurfer

Buff Khajiit all resources regen to 120-150 each.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

There are 3 underperfoming races in comparison to khajiit - dunmer, bosmer, imperial. Before buffing those, buffing khajiit will only gap wider.
Given how damage scales, 8% crit is MUCH better in PVE then raw 258 damage. In PVP khajiit is under dog of course due to impen gear, and extra 50-75 regen won't save it.

258 Raw Damage is buffable. 8% crit is not. 8% crit is better only in perfect group and if your class has crit damage bonus and no weapon damage bonus.

Dunmer is actually beating Khajiit significantly in raw damage numbers, Bosmer has the exact same sustain as Redguard this time around without its conditional nature by gaining on average 200 stam regen in meta PvE builds and given how good Redguard is, Bosmer is very close to the number one spot.

Imperial easily swap the 2k Health for more stamina by not investing in health at all and do just fine.

Previously, Khajiit had the highest PvE raw numbers and the best PvE stamina race if your class had innate good sustain and good group sustain support. Now, they are in the middle of the pack in PvE being overtaken by Orc, dunmer and bosmer and bottom tier in PvP.

It's all against the practice. In practice 8% crit >> 258 damage. I repeat - no person caring about his/her dps uses damage mundus in pve. Now on live servers dunmer has 9% magicka which gives ~ 3.5-4k bonus on maxmagicka builds + 7% damage to fire, obviously it's good stats which better then just 8% crit on current khajiit stambuilds. But after patch dunmer will have only 500 more magicka or stamina and no sustain at all.

ALso you are effectively ignoring that Dunmer is significantly superior to khajit in pvP. pve is not everything. no reason why khajiit should be one of the weakest there.

MartiniDaniels

nope

About bosmer i already calculated in another post - he will reach same recovery as redguard only if ALL possible stam recovery bonuses are active. And with nerf to max pool, maybe khajiit will be top stamina dps next patch, not redguard.

Khajiit is the only race in this patch who didn't get his resource pool nerfed (since there were no resource pool passives) and instead kitties got increased by 750 in each resource. Basically, khajiit is the only race which was buffed actually (lose of 10-15 stam recovery is nothing), while all others are nerfed. And you ask for further buff 0_o ??

susmitds

Buff khajiit magicka/stamina to 150 but drop health regen all together. (lets be real - 100 health regen is useless - the previous 20% Hp regen is at least useful)

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

About bosmer i already calculated in another post - he will reach same recovery as redguard only if ALL possible stam recovery bonuses are active. And with nerf to max pool, maybe khajiit will be top stamina dps next patch, not redguard.

Khajiit is the only race in this patch who didn't get his resource pool nerfed (since there were no resource pool passives) and instead kitties got increased by 750 in each resource. Basically, khajiit is the only race which was buffed actually (lose of 10-15 stam recovery is nothing), while all others are nerfed. And you ask for further buff 0_o ??

The fact that Khajiit never had any resource bonus was a massive unbalance during the previous racial balancing. You lose over 150 stam recovery on a roller blade build with 3k stam regen. If you used Troll king, you lost 200 health regen as well. Khajiit regen passive had 20% hp regen and 10% stam regen compared to the Bosmer 21 stam regen. Now, the Bosmer stam regen is higher than the Khajiit total regen, which goes against the set effeciency passive system ZOS stated to use here as mixed bonuses in the set system is always higher in total than a single resource bonus.

Sheezabeast

Buff khajiit magicka/stamina to 150 but drop health regen all together. (lets be real - 100 health regen is useless - the previous 20% Hp regen is at least useful)

Yes buff up the kitters

MartiniDaniels

nope

About imperial - as dps yes you can (and should) go for stamina/stamina recovery food while maintaining same health as with camorane by adding several health glyphs.
Camorane gives 319 stam recovery, 3192 stamina and health by 3511. So to reach same health you need 1 big health enchantment and 1-2 small. That way you will lose 1200-1500 stamina from enchantments. With new food (lava foot soup) you will receive 4574 stamina and 457 recovery, which is + 1382 stamina and + 138 recovery.
Result: if you go with 1 big and 1 small health glyph, imperial will have slightly more stamina then redguard (~2150) and much worse recovery (+138 to base build). Clearly imperial is underdog, worse even then bosmer.

mxxo

Other

Buff Dunmer

MartiniDaniels

nope

nsmurfer wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

There are 3 underperfoming races in comparison to khajiit - dunmer, bosmer, imperial. Before buffing those, buffing khajiit will only gap wider.
Given how damage scales, 8% crit is MUCH better in PVE then raw 258 damage. In PVP khajiit is under dog of course due to impen gear, and extra 50-75 regen won't save it.

258 Raw Damage is buffable. 8% crit is not. 8% crit is better only in perfect group and if your class has crit damage bonus and no weapon damage bonus.

Dunmer is actually beating Khajiit significantly in raw damage numbers, Bosmer has the exact same sustain as Redguard this time around without its conditional nature by gaining on average 200 stam regen in meta PvE builds and given how good Redguard is, Bosmer is very close to the number one spot.

Imperial easily swap the 2k Health for more stamina by not investing in health at all and do just fine.

Previously, Khajiit had the highest PvE raw numbers and the best PvE stamina race if your class had innate good sustain and good group sustain support. Now, they are in the middle of the pack in PvE being overtaken by Orc, dunmer and bosmer and bottom tier in PvP.

It's all against the practice. In practice 8% crit >> 258 damage. I repeat - no person caring about his/her dps uses damage mundus in pve. Now on live servers dunmer has 9% magicka which gives ~ 3.5-4k bonus on maxmagicka builds + 7% damage to fire, obviously it's good stats which better then just 8% crit on current khajiit stambuilds. But after patch dunmer will have only 500 more magicka or stamina and no sustain at all.

ALso you are effectively ignoring that Dunmer is significantly superior to khajit in pvP. pve is not everything. no reason why khajiit should be one of the weakest there.

PVP is underwhelming for khajiit now, he lost his health recovery exploit. But those extra 50-75 stam recovery won't change anything. And recovery is important in PVP too, even more important then in PVE and dunmer have zero recovery bonus, who said it will be more effective overall? Yes, dunmer will have highest burst, but ok he ganked experienced tough player, burst didn't ended with victory what's next?

FrancisCrawford

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Given how dps scales, 8% crit is MUCH better in PVE then raw 258 damage. I

What numbers do you think are typical for crit %, crit damage and effective weapon power?

E.g., if they're 70%, 70% and 60K, the the Khajiit buff is better than the Dunmer weapon power buff alone, but the advantage gets flipped if you recall Dunmer also get max stamina. (And on the third paw, the tiny regen benefit Khajiit get makes things even closer.)

Latios

nope

So Khajiit should be strong in absolutely every kind of damage dealing and have sustain for it? That's not a good way to 'balance'.