POLL - More Race Change Tokens?

Skwor

Biased poll. No other option, there should be no race tokens.

As such I could not vote.

desciviib14_ESO

No race tokens isn't even an options since they already said we get 1

xMovingTarget

Seraphayel wrote: »

One is more than enough. They don't even have to provide one but they still do.

There is NO NEED to race change at all, even after the racial changes. It's your fault that you chose a race based on something that could easily change in the future (like it does now).

We need to "lol" button back. Now that is the biggest yikes I have seen in a long time.

CaffeinatedMayhem

Or put race change tokens on sale again. Taking them off sale right as notes were released was a bit of a *** move. I was waiting to buy tokens until i knew if I would need them. I need a few and now they're full price.

RavenEye

It's not my case, but I can certainly understand the frustration of those who have multiple characters and will want to change the race of their characters

randomkeyhits

Another didn't vote as there is no other option person here.

If race passives are so critical to high end builds then like gear they should not be locked behind the crown store, if it has to be a thing then earn it yes but not crown store as its holding the most dedicated player base to ransom because they feel they have to changepay to achieve min/max awesomeness.

I'd sooner race was just ornamental and the passives treated in the same way as skill points/attribs and the racials themselves tuned to be more a fun thing than critical.

SydneyGrey

I think three name-and-race tokens would be ok, actually. It needs to be more than one, but doesn't have to be one per character, in my opinion.

forthwinds

from FatalForce

"1 race change token is pretty insignificant for the number of changes people have to make. With 12 toon slots, even if you wanted to race change half of them (with the current sale) that would break down to be 2500 * 6 = 15k; a 14k crown pack costs $99.99... that's a ton of money to spend"

this is only for 6 characters, some people have 10+. THIS IS HIGHWAY ROBBERY!

Sir_Xalvador

this race change is so pay to win, because if you already have established characters and you want the best race for them and have to change you have to pay ZO$ money to change.

JadonSky

I feel like giving 1 is a kind gesture. I mean when they nerf class skills you don't even have an option to switch classes you have to start from scratch. So be grateful you get a free race change token and if your lucky maybe a discount on them.

No one likes change but it was a change that was needed. When it comes to MMO's this is how it always is. Every MMO I have played they end up doing major changes for balance and you live with it or you don't. This is not a normal single player Elder Scrolls game so expect balance changes and live with the fact you made the choice to stay with the meta. Meta never last it will always move around in some way or forum.

Krayl

Anyone against MORE free race changes - I have to wonder what kinda world you live in. Especially those of you making it sound like the one free one we are getting is some kind of "special gift". WOW! Thanks ZoS for deciding to revamp all races and giving us the honor of a virtual item that literally puts the company out 0 dollars! Thank you thank you thank you! Is there anything ELSE we can do for you?!

JadonSky

Krayl wrote: »

Anyone against MORE free race changes - I have to wonder what kinda world you live in. Especially those of you making it sound like the one free one we are getting is some kind of "special gift". WOW! Thanks ZoS for deciding to revamp all races and giving us the honor of a virtual item that literally puts the company out 0 dollars! Thank you thank you thank you! Is there anything ELSE we can do for you?!

I mean they don't give you a class change option when they nurfed sorc to the ground last patch. And the last few nurfs and skill changes they have made they haven't even discounted the skill reset. So yeah compared to what we have received in the past its nice that they are even giving you a free race change token at all.

Now should it be this way, no I feel like when they do a major change in a specific area they should allow a time frame for you to make a change (race, skills, class). But I have played many MMO's and it's pretty rare that they do this for people especially in FTP environment. And maybe instead they make it for the people that do sub monthly get free race changes and anyone else gets a discount.

sp_korshun

JadonSky wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

Anyone against MORE free race changes - I have to wonder what kinda world you live in. Especially those of you making it sound like the one free one we are getting is some kind of "special gift". WOW! Thanks ZoS for deciding to revamp all races and giving us the honor of a virtual item that literally puts the company out 0 dollars! Thank you thank you thank you! Is there anything ELSE we can do for you?!

I mean they don't give you a class change option when they nurfed sorc to the ground last patch. And the last few nurfs and skill changes they have made they haven't even discounted the skill reset. So yeah compared to what we have received in the past its nice that they are even giving you a free race change token at all.

Now should it be this way, no I feel like when they do a major change in a specific area they should allow a time frame for you to make a change (race, skills, class). But I have played many MMO's and it's pretty rare that they do this for people especially in FTP environment. And maybe instead they make it for the people that do sub monthly get free race changes and anyone else gets a discount.

When your class is nerfed you can change skills/build/gear and it would cost you only some gold (1g per skillpoint) and in-game time. But when your race is nerfed the only way to change it is to spent 2,5k (at sale now) or more crowns and it has nothing common with "adapt" reasons that many people like. So why it's nice that we have free token? It could be possibly ok if token price would be about 100 crowns after patch, but we understand that it would be as always 3k. And yep, lots of my friends and me also have 15 chars, all races were chosen by racial passives for specific roles, and now we have re-vamp for pseudobalance and feeling of lost money and time for our chars.

AlnilamE

"None" would have been a better option.

To quote the NPC from Belkarth, "Cry me a river. Maybe you'll float out of Craglorn."

Dojohoda

(Some) people are really upset over this. I like to wait until the PTS is out (and see the how the math works) before I pick up a pitchfork.

That said, maybe a per character thingy-do to change its race one time could be made available, but no tokens.

(edit)

Akrasjel

But i wont use it anyway, maybe something else

PapaWeeb

Why are you people so eager to defend ZOS on this?


"I'm not gonna change race on my 3 roleplaying characters so screw the other guys!" right?


No, 1 token for free isn't being generous. This is a massive change to build synergies, sustain, DPS. Anyone who plays competitively has the potential for 15 characters to change in a substantial way, and you think they should shell out hundreds of $$$ to change that? After races were the way they were for so long?


You're delusional. Try looking through other peoples' eyes before you and your bow build Altmer are so quick to put others down.

CipherNine

Stop being slaves to a meta and you won't have to spend money on race changes everytime something changes.
All content in the game can be cleared even without racial passives.

I don't give a damn about the very small minority that goes for leaderboard runs then creates a meta that everyone else puts as a requirement to do everything. It's beyond stupidity. Losing 2% of dmg isn't the freaking end of the world.
If ZOS never added racial passives to begin with then you would have to do all the same content without this meta bs anyway.

When you create a meta built around something as trivial as racial passives and are a slave to it. Then deal with the consequences when it changes. You deserve no sympathy. It's all your own faults.

Thorstienn

The percentage differences between classes has always been small and by the look of it, will become even smaller.
Besides, the "Meta" won't of changed that much. Redguard is still stam for sure, Altmer Mag. Only a problem if you race changed all your Altmers to Dunmer a while back... in which case, cough it up for being Lemmings.

jlmurra2

It should be a race, and name change token. That is what I will buy, and the race change token will go unused.

qbit

I've already capped out my alt list with trash chars I'll never play so I can get those free tokens banked up...

ZOS isn't falling for this one because everyone will keep paying them money.

I find it unlikely every alt needs a race change. Claims that people are going to have to change 15 alts seem exaggerated.

richo262

One per account, then one per fundamentally changed races.

So if you have an account that is +1

If you have a Dunmer that is +1

So 2.

ccfeeling

ZOS decided to change the basic elements , I accept .

But only one race change token per account ? Sounds fair ? NO ! You must be kidding me !

We have to think deeply before we create a char , because we all know racial passives affect the char development even we are not min / maxer . Wood elf mag dps ? High elf stam dps ?

ZOS , please provide one race change token per char , you guys could set the limited time , such as within 1 week after update 21 , there is no token banking , all unused token will be removed after that .

Could you guys consider ? Thank you !

eso_lags

PapaWeeb wrote: »

Why are you people so eager to defend ZOS on this?


"I'm not gonna change race on my 3 roleplaying characters so screw the other guys!" right?


No, 1 token for free isn't being generous. This is a massive change to build synergies, sustain, DPS. Anyone who plays competitively has the potential for 15 characters to change in a substantial way, and you think they should shell out hundreds of $$$ to change that? After races were the way they were for so long?


You're delusional. Try looking through other peoples' eyes before you and your bow build Altmer are so quick to put others down.

This is what i dont understand. I am mainly a small scale pvp player. That is what i mostly care about in the game, but I can see the difference between right and wrong. I care about what happens to things in the game that will not impact me. Because there is no reason to be ignorant about something just because it doesn't impact your play style. But it seems a lot of pve players and non competitive players, are the opposite. Unless its something going on with their play style then they dont care.

Why is it so wrong for zos to give us a race change for each of our characters? Why should some of us who have had characters for years have to restart?

Comments like this dont help.

CipherNine wrote: »

Stop being slaves to a meta and you won't have to spend money on race changes everytime something changes.
All content in the game can be cleared even without racial passives.

I don't give a damn about the very small minority that goes for leaderboard runs then creates a meta that everyone else puts as a requirement to do everything. It's beyond stupidity. Losing 2% of dmg isn't the freaking end of the world.
If ZOS never added racial passives to begin with then you would have to do all the same content without this meta bs anyway.

When you create a meta built around something as trivial as racial passives and are a slave to it. Then deal with the consequences when it changes. You deserve no sympathy. It's all your own faults.

Again, another person who completely disregards pvp like it doesn't exist. I would like you to go try to solo for a few weeks. Send me some clips and let me know if you would like to have the best race for your class.

You are so salty and biased for no damn reason. Because you dont like that there are meta builds, races, and classes? Fine but this is how mmos usually are. But that still doesnt explain why you think the argument doesnt work in reverse.

Why cant we min max and have the best? Why cant we do that? Because you dont like it? Im just confused why there are so many people defending zos on this. I mean so many changes are a nerf. Every percentage change is a nerf. But even if you like every single one of the new changes, why would you not want zos to give us 1 token per character? I literally cannot think of anything more fair than doing that..

And please dont say "if zos never added racial passives".. They did, and they have been pretty much the same for a long time. Now they are flipping everything upside down and certain people will have no use for the passives their "new" race will have.

Sylvermynx

marius_buys wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

*sigh* Where's the "OTHER" option?

"OTHER": I don't care. I'm not changing race on any of my girls, on either account.

Soz bro this was my first poll so excuse the uber noob feel of it

Um. "Sis" more aptly describes me. I am NOT a "bro".

Anyway, no worries, didn't know you'd not done a poll before. But that's one of the main things with a poll: always include a "generic" option, usually phrased as "Other".

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

One is more than enough. They don't even have to provide one but they still do.

There is NO NEED to race change at all, even after the racial changes. It's your fault that you chose a race based on something that could easily change in the future (like it does now).

No they dont have to provide one, but I dont wana see the ammount of numbers leaving the game because ZOS is not willing to provide some QoL, and trying to grab even more money from us, based upon their decicion to change races so drastically.

I would predict, that the ammopun of token they may sell, will not exceed the potential cash they coiul dgain from the part of the playerbase which stops subbing, or leaves the game because of this change.

I rather think that's an exaggeration. Since I've been playing I've seen a fair amount of threats to leave. I still see most of those who threatened to leave in game.

I figure this is going to wind up same. People post a lot of fire and brimstone. But then, they realize they still love the game.... I saw this so many times in the other MMOs I played - hundreds of times....

The population isn't going to change materially. Those who have issues with the final changes will adapt.

We all adapt - every day IRL, and every major change in a game we love. Some will leave, yes. But I don't believe it will be enough to cause anything approaching a major blip on the radar. And my guess is in a few months, most of those will be back.

There's something - addictive.... about TES and ESO. Many of us aren't able to - forego that moon sugar.

Arrodisia

CipherNine wrote: »

Stop being slaves to a meta and you won't have to spend money on race changes everytime something changes.
All content in the game can be cleared even without racial passives.

I don't give a damn about the very small minority that goes for leaderboard runs then creates a meta that everyone else puts as a requirement to do everything. It's beyond stupidity. Losing 2% of dmg isn't the freaking end of the world.
If ZOS never added racial passives to begin with then you would have to do all the same content without this meta bs anyway.

When you create a meta built around something as trivial as racial passives and are a slave to it. Then deal with the consequences when it changes. You deserve no sympathy. It's all your own faults.

Good for you if you like to play that way. I understand your dislike of the meta, but I, respectfully, disagree with how you tell people not to play how they want to here, especially when ZOS says they should play their way, but at a new RL cost. Basically, to each his own and all. If people want to min max or play leaderboards they can. ZOS sold that to them in multiple ways. If they want to maintain top dps, that'S fine too.

No player should foot the bill for ZOS's race imbalance on their toons, and ZOS should do the right thing and give them free race and name changes. this isn't a flavor of the month issue only. They can't all just swap mains. Some people played their chars for years and this breaks those characters in some way for them. Some people have multiple mains. other reasons exist but these seem to be more common right now.

That one half change token is no kind gesture at all. It's a ploy, and a bad one at that.

I completely disagree with ZOS's stance on this subject. It seems similar to a bait and switch tactic. It's one thing to open a crown store to sell some outfits and mounts, but it's a whole other thing to charge players for their own balancing mistakes. They can happily sell whatever cosmetic outfits, mounts and pets they want, but don't try to sell the player base balancing changes outside of the existing sub, dlc's and expansions.

When class ability changes came they weren't all game breaking. Yet because the skill changes only cost gold it was given almost for free, and sometimes they were just flat out reset. So people could play using other abilities. So now because tokens are RL money and not gold they want to cash in. I think not and definitely not to this extreme. Even at a reduced price these would be ridculously expensive for people with a full load of chars, and this isn't a burden the players should be carrying at all, not one cent of it.The charge is not even remotely justified and too costly to push on the player base. It will cost more than the expansion and sub together for those who already have many chars, and a lot of players do.

Unfortunately, I must agree with the majority on this one.

They can't say "ok. You're paying for the dlc's and expansions, and now pay for something we (ZOS)changed within them."
The point remains that they changed the races and people should be able to change to whatever they want regardless of reason for free.
1 time race and name change per char for free.

They (ZOS)even comment that people may have made these races to be competitive with those passives available to them and now they should feel they can play what they want. However, it's going to cost them to do so. Why? They should've always been able to play what they want "without being at a disadvantage". I do get they want the changes, and so do we. That normally wouldn't be a problem, but the entire change stems from their balancing problems from the beginning. So no. It shouldn't rest on the players to pay extra for those changes. I think they have a right to be upset about it all, to complain and search for solutions together here in the forums. This is just imho.

CipherNine

Again, another person who completely disregards pvp like it doesn't exist. I would like you to go try to solo for a few weeks. Send me some clips and let me know if you would like to have the best race for your class.

You are so salty and biased for no damn reason. Because you dont like that there are meta builds, races, and classes? Fine but this is how mmos usually are. But that still doesnt explain why you think the argument doesnt work in reverse.

Why cant we min max and have the best? Why cant we do that? Because you dont like it? Im just confused why there are so many people defending zos on this. I mean so many changes are a nerf. Every percentage change is a nerf. But even if you like every single one of the new changes, why would you not want zos to give us 1 token per character? I literally cannot think of anything more fair than doing that..

And please dont say "if zos never added racial passives".. They did, and they have been pretty much the same for a long time. Now they are flipping everything upside down and certain people will have no use for the passives their "new" race will have.

Oh don't get me wrong. I never said I don't want them to give 1 token per character. I don't care if they do or not. But if they do then good for you if it helps you so much.

But when it comes to meta's I will always despise them. Mainly cause of how the community then shoves it down everyone's throats. It's idiotic. Everyone sees that leaderboard runs require certain things then turn around and put that bs as a requiremnet on everything else that isn't even a leaderboard group. It's just beyond stupidity. So that is why i HATE the meta bs and just wish ZOS would completely remove racial passives. Then the idiots can't hide behind their meta race nonsense.

Tawniey

Mayrael wrote: »

Tawniey wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Tawniey wrote: »

I honestly feel like...

No, actually, you don't need to choose optimal races to be successful in ESO unless you play competitive PVE or PVP. After the change, one will still need to play optimal races for competitive play, it will just be a different group of races.

In theory, they've made life less bad for casual players with sub-optimal builds who play in pug raids, but in practice I would bet those dumb raid leads still discriminate based on the new BIS racial hierarchy.

I'd really like you to explain to me how the very specific changes being made are going to turn all the tables on build choices. Please. I've got time. Make a chart, do some math, whatever. Here is the list of specific changes.

As you so aptly put it in your first post-- Khajiit have a better chance as casters now. I'm so sure that Khajiit has now become the clear magdps choice. Everyone go change your Altmer casters while you have the chance!

Sidenote-- dude, do you really have to be so negative about a relatively small quality of life change that likely barely impacts you? Berating players who want a Khajiiti caster? Asking Zos to buy your silence (lmao)? Now going on about how the intended benefit of this was somehow specifically directed at "sub-optimal pug casuals" (bc anyone who doesn't spend their life measuring the metric difference between a point spent in Piercing and one in Precise Strikes is probably a loser babygamer who doesn't understand l33t sk1llz)-- and that it'd fail regardless? Are you okay?

Small change you say? Let's see.

My Altmer MagSorc currently has arround 40k magicka, and 2,2 magicka recovery. Around 10% of my max magicka ~3600 comes from passive, now it will be flat 2000, it's almost twice worse. Around 200 of my magicka recovery comes from my passives, now it will be (575)/6=96 recovery per second. Again almost twice as bad.

But let's look at Bretons.
Yes they will suffer the same fate with max mag but:
Now they receive flat 100 mag recovery (more than high elves) which they haven't at all but also they get buffed their cost reduction passive over 2x from 3 to 7%.

Yeah pretty meaningless changes, riiiight.

Okay, friend, look. The most magicka you can have in the game, per my calculations (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)-- on an Altmer sorc-- is 50467

3192: Witchmother's Potent Brew
1041: Max Mag Enchant on Infused legs
1041: Max Mag Enchant on Infused chest
1041: Max Mag Enchant on Infused head
351: Max Mag Enchant on Divines shoulders
351: Max Mag Enchant on Divines hands
351:Max Mag Enchant on Divines waist
351: Max Mag Enchant on Divines feet
2028: The Mage mundus stone
760: The Divines armor x5 bonus
870: Arcane Neck
870: Arcane Ring
870: Arcane Ring
1096: Ilambris bonus 1
1096: Necropotence bonus 2
1096: Necropotence bonus 3
1096: Necropotence set bonus 4
3150: Necropotence set bonus 5
1096: Bright-Throat's Boast set bonus 2
1096: Bright-Throat's Boast set bonus 3
2000: Bright-Throat's Boast set bonus 5
28% Light Armor: Grace 3 (4% per piece of light armor worn x7 pieces ((7/7 better than undaunted mettle at 5/1/1)))
8%: Mages Guild: Magicka Controller 2 passive from slotting 4/5 Mages Guild abilities available.
2%: Undaunted: Undaunted Mettle 2 (2% per type of armor worn x1 type)
8%: Daedric Summonng: Bound Aegis 4 slotted
5%: Mages Guild: Inner Light slotted

And finally
9% Altmer Racial: Gift of Magnus 3

Now, I separate out the Altmer Racial because you can't take that added % into consideration when calculating the difference between the 10% and the 2k flat.
So, with all this, again we are at 50467 max magicka. (We are also at 3108 magicka recovery, but I am not going to break that down right now) The total actual points given by your 10% GoM3 bonus would appear at first glance to be 5047, HOWEVER. you can't factor the points given by GoM3 when dividing by 10, as stated before. Without GoM3, your max magicka is 46728, meaning your lost magicka is 4673. That means that the absolute maximum loss from this update is 2673 max magicka.
Yes, that is a significant % nerf from it's original form, but that is only the case if you are spending absolutely every point you can on max magicka. No spell power, no spell crit, no spell pen, and of course no resistances or health/stam. Your skills have also been limited to Bound Aegis, Inner Light, and 3 of the following skills and their morphs: Entropy, Fire Rune, Equilibrium and Meteor. On both bars.

Which, assuming you'd like more than 2 damage skills besides your pet, means that your only damage-dealing abilities are Entropy morphs, Fire Rune morphs and Meteor morphs. (You can still have two flame magic abilities to proc Ilambris, so I guess that's a plus, gg.)

Even if we're going with the best damage morphs of those 3 skills, most of your damage is now coming from dots that don't stack on themselves, a burst of damage from a trap that has to be triggered to take effect, and an ultimate that costs 170 to cast. Even if you somehow did manage to keep interest in playing this in combat, you've nerfed yourself past the point of viability for most group content.

So, now we know what it would take for this change to affect your max magicka gained by a factor of 57%. Each time you remove something from that list and replace it with something else, you're reducing that that factor, until eventually?

The difference is negligable.

XiDiabolismiX

jcm2606 wrote: »

1 change per character.

When you make sweeping changes like this that would require players to recreate characters to deal with, then you should offer some form of recompense. Another game I play, Warframe, often does things like this, and each time they always refund players for anything they've committed into the old system. Reworking mods/upgrades? We'll refund your Endo and any cores you put into them. Reworking the focus system? We'll refund all points and any Eidolon shards you've put into the waybounds. All of these things is dozens upon dozens of hours worth of grinding, oh, and did I mention, it's a free game?

When a free game can offer players some form of recompense, there's no reason why a premium game shouldn't be able to, outside of pure corporate greed.

Say it louder for the people in the back!! Preach it!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

richo262

If ZOS has conceded that many of us will want to change the race of at least 1 character, they should also give us a Name change token given we will no doubt want to change the name to a lore friendly name as well.

I think it should be 1 race and name change per account. Then on top of that, 1 race and name change per Dunmer on the account.