[PvP] Dragonknight class

SkysOutThizeOut

@Bashev if you want burst, go mag damage; if you want dots, go stam. If you want to be a tanky wear heavy with tank sets. How do you play?

Bashev

Now I play mainly DM BGs.
Stam - I play with troll king, ravager and 7th. LA, Ranksank, Bash combo. Back bar dual wield. I am descent with that setup. But when I use the same setup on my warden the results are way better.

How do you burst with mDK? I used to play with valkyn, BSW and impregnable heavy, sword and board resto.

NBrookus

Mag DK damage is great this patch and sustain is okay. Tougher than some other classes but not terrible.

Personally, I'm having trouble surviving the high levels of damage other players are dishing out but some of that is just because I've gotten rusty on mDK.

Ramber

I built a staDK JUST for PvP last exp event. they fit my play style perfectly and I can use many different sets along with Bone Pirate. IDK what all the whining is about its better then any NB or Sorc at just overall sustain and mass damage with all the shields it has if used properly. And its the best them being forced to use heavy armor.

I have a stam NB (the class that literally has to hide to do any good) Sorc (class that for now must spin to win) and Temp (the class whose best ability cant hit half the time) and this guy is by far my fav. It eats mag classes easily unless im in a 5 to 1 or something lol. The only other class id put close to it is my stam Warden but its a 9 where my DK is a 9.5, love them both

DTStormfox

I've been running MagDK for the past 2 years in no-cp PVP and it is still performing well.
I run Shackle, Sun and Zaan/Skoria with a two-handed greatsword on the front bar. The class has its flaws but certainly has many strengths too. I know some players that are very good at playing MagDK and StamDK. Sustain is good, the damage is good but not the best it could be, the heals are fine too.

NyassaV

mDK has some open world issues but has always been solid. Stam DK has some sustain issues for instance but has always been a solid class if built right especially since it's stamina.

mDK can out heal a magblade while doing similar damage and completely lock down an opponent. THey can keep you permanently root because if you waste stamina on a dodge roll then they will eventually run you out of stamina from other forms of CCs. But now with wings it gives DKs even more control over some fights and with magblades it's not even worth fighting them even i you are melee spec since cripple is hard to get under wings sometimes and and assuming you do it won't exactly do enough damage to counter all the damage they would be doing to you.

Priyasekarssk

Bashev wrote: »

According to me DKs are underperforming in every role in PvP.

Can anyone share a build that is really strong for DKs and if you use the same build on another class it will be weaker? As DKs are my love, I tried to find a build that is decent but everything that came to my mind works well better on other classes.

Why DKs underperform according to me:

• Expensive class skills
• PvE passives
• Overnerfed skills with the years

One option could be an Acid Spray build but I am still not convinced.

Please dont play DK then. It already OP and top contender for no 1 spot. 1 Less DK would be really nice since everyone flocking to it.

amir412

Vapirko wrote: »

Mag DK is fine, hybrid has been made a very viable option by @SkysOutThizeOut as see above, but if you want to go straight stamina there isn’t a whole lot of options. It’s pretty much go super tanky and wear them down or go home. Similar to Stam sorcs they jsut have no class burst and since dizzy swing is pretty much a none option these days it’s tough. But any changes would have to be done carefully becuse unlike Stam sorcs, Stam DKs still have a couple of very strong dots, Major fracture, major mending, minor brutality, and imo better passives, or at least more passives. So, they don’t need much, just a bit of burst.

That hybrid build wont stand a chance vs a good player.

Zurigorria

The main disadvantage a mgDK has is mobility(vampire not an option)]There are a few very good combos of burst and tankiness/resistances. 1vs1,2 is one of best classes if u know what to do. If you stick to it, you will enjoy, I am happily whipping as a DC.

Baphomet

MagDKs are paradoxal - they underperform in almost all areas, but they are still the most fun class to play regardless.

You can make some pretty strong builds with the class, but it is the one class that takes the most skill to play well.

You can kill faster and more easily with all other classes, but when you do it on a DK, you know that you've earned the kill due to skill and not unbalanced abilities.

Once mastered, DKs are quite good (but still somewhat underpowered).

I run Skoria, Bloodthorn and Spinner's and it's a quite good setup.

SkysOutThizeOut

@amir412 have you seen the build? The stats?... you play pc na?

amir412

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@amir412 have you seen the build? The stats?...

Ive seen the build, and i always appreciate theory crafters that going outside the box.
But, hybrid builds will never work.

1. CP system - U need to divide too many points.
2. There is no way that u will win in a duel vs a good player that runs 40k stam + 5.4k WD, or 6.5k WD etc...
3. Pelinal is a waste of a set slots imo
4. You got 9.5k physical resist unbuffed in that video, im not sure how u can play with that resist on console, but in PC-EU u wont survive more than 5 seconds, in duels or either open world.

Fiveboro

Bashev wrote: »

Now I play mainly DM BGs.
Stam - I play with troll king, ravager and 7th. LA, Ranksank, Bash combo. Back bar dual wield. I am descent with that setup. But when I use the same setup on my warden the results are way better.

How do you burst with mDK? I used to play with valkyn, BSW and impregnable heavy, sword and board resto.

For Burst two of those sets are right but you absolutely have to be in light armor and make the third set shackle/innate/sun. Also run dual wield or flame staff instead of S&B. Pump as much into spell dmg and penetration as possible. You obviously won't burst in the same sense as a warden or nightblade but it doesn't matter on the DK because you can maintain constant pressure with dots/valkyn and then absolutely control the fight with fossilize and talons. At some point in the fight you'll have a burst opportunity to hit fossilize into a leap.

Ocelot9x

I think (after 2k+ hours of pvp as a stamina dk) that 1v1 the class is quite good, it’s a decent pugslayer for 1vX (obviously warden and sorc are way better at it) but It’s COMPLETELY GARBAGE when smallscaling. It’s like the worst spec you can play in that environment. No support,no aoe damage,no debuffing, NOTHING.

Ragnarock41

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I think (after 2k+ hours of pvp as a stamina dk) that 1v1 the class is quite good, it’s a decent pugslayer for 1vX (obviously warden and sorc are way better at it) but It’s COMPLETELY GARBAGE when smallscaling. It’s like the worst spec you can play in that environment. No support,no aoe damage,no debuffing, NOTHING.

StamDk utterly lacks group utility and people crying about it always do it based on their salty dueling experiences since thats the only thing the class is good for, dueling.

Hopefully it will become something more in the future,knowing zos it might happen today or 2 years later depending on how good wrobel feels about them.

maybe some more aoe damage, maybe some more group utility. Anything to give the class some identity really.

Flame_of_Hades

I mained mag dk for about a year. About a month ago, I swapped over to stam sorc. What did I notice immediately? Stam sorc melted people. Even against decent/good(ish) players, HA/blood craze/LA/puncture/bash/LA/reverb/LA/S2W was enough to kill them. On my mag dk, it took forever to kill the same players. Mag dk is very annoying to fight due to things such as fossilize and talons, but the damage is severely lacking compared to what stamina classes can pull off, the resistance is much lower than what a stamina class pulls off, and the sustain is lowed than what a stamina class pulls off.

TL:DR mag dk needs its class dots to do more damage than they currently are, so as to not be beaten out by rending slashes. Stamina is the current king in all aspects but full healer.

mursie

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

I mained mag dk for about a year. About a month ago, I swapped over to stam sorc. What did I notice immediately? Stam sorc melted people. Even against decent/good(ish) players, HA/blood craze/LA/puncture/bash/LA/reverb/LA/S2W was enough to kill them. On my mag dk, it took forever to kill the same players. Mag dk is very annoying to fight due to things such as fossilize and talons, but the damage is severely lacking compared to what stamina classes can pull off, the resistance is much lower than what a stamina class pulls off, and the sustain is lowed than what a stamina class pulls off.

TL:DR mag dk needs its class dots to do more damage than they currently are, so as to not be beaten out by rending slashes. Stamina is the current king in all aspects but full healer.

absolutely agree. btw - care to share that snb build? interested to run a snb / dw stamsorc. been running masters dw with auto 2h forever.

Flame_of_Hades

mursie wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

I mained mag dk for about a year. About a month ago, I swapped over to stam sorc. What did I notice immediately? Stam sorc melted people. Even against decent/good(ish) players, HA/blood craze/LA/puncture/bash/LA/reverb/LA/S2W was enough to kill them. On my mag dk, it took forever to kill the same players. Mag dk is very annoying to fight due to things such as fossilize and talons, but the damage is severely lacking compared to what stamina classes can pull off, the resistance is much lower than what a stamina class pulls off, and the sustain is lowed than what a stamina class pulls off.

TL:DR mag dk needs its class dots to do more damage than they currently are, so as to not be beaten out by rending slashes. Stamina is the current king in all aspects but full healer.

absolutely agree. btw - care to share that snb build? interested to run a snb / dw stamsorc. been running masters dw with auto 2h forever.

5 medium 2 heavy. (all armor is impen...)

2x medium blood spawn, max stam enchant on the shoulder, tri-glyph on the helm.

5x briarheart, belt, gloves, boots, sword, shield, 2x axes. sword and axes are infused, shield is sturdy. sword has a berserk enchant, axes have oblivion and disease damage, shield + armor have max stam enchants.

5x seventh legion, legs, chest, jewelry. armor has tri-glyphs, as for the jewelry, 1x infused weapon damage, 1x robust weapon damage, 1x healthy stam recov.

1h + shield bar = hurricane, reverb, vigor, ransack, dark deal, atro (for the stam regen buff, although it can be used if your fighting a tanky target)

dw bar = streak(im using ball of lighting for the 1/4 chance that it works, helps even the ground with ranged builds that bounce away from you), crit surge, blood craze (less damage, more heals), quick cloak, s2w, DBoS.

Disclaimer : this was designed for no-cp, if you plan on using this for duels/cp cyrodiil, you might need less regen and gain more from using furry/ravager instead of 7th legion. i can post the cp setup, but that took me all of 20 min and you might be able to come up with a better one on your own.

EDIT : Gold food and tri-pots

SkysOutThizeOut

@amir412
1. if you watched the video... I specifically said we put all cp in as if mag damage. So no splitting the cp. 2. We’re not doing physical damage, it’s hybrid in utility.
3. I play pc na on paddled Xbox controller. And I’ve beaten good players. Watch my 1vX and 3vX vids too.
4. The problem is everyone thinks of pelinials incorrectly. Dk is the only class that gets minor brutality. Equipping pelinials will give you 300-400 addditonal spell damage because it opens spell damage to the minor brutality buff. So the 5th piece reads more like 300 spell damage.
5. The set allows you to gain an extra hot that is really strong as well as a “maj sorc” buff in forward/rally.
6. Look at the tooltips... Regular magdks struggle for tooltips like that with sustain and survivability.
7. Watch my videos and actually listen to the video and watch it. I’d gladly duel you on pc na.

We’re not hybrid damage. We free a bar slot cus we combine a heal and major buff. And pelinial is basically just 300-400 damage 5pc outside that.

Tetrafy

I use a medium build. I run 6 med 1 heavy helm I believe. Hundings, spriggans. I use dw and bow, dw main hand weapon enchant back hand poison bow weapon enchant. Skills are usually poison claw, snipe for debuff, timestop for aoe and shield on dw bar by blocking because of psyjic 5k shield. Monster sets I switch between bloodspawn, zaan and veledrith for wd. I run cps in crit. So I can stack more wd on armor and I run batmans or uncle donnies and poison armor is my main burst. It literally makes enemies lose all resists so I lay dw bleeds poison claw dot poison inject then spin to win or spammable and if I get a cheap super use it again. Easy peasy 1v1 for the most part. Run wings or shuffle. And petrify cause why not we dks.

Tetrafy

Bashev wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

If you're trying to play a dk like a warden or a nightblade then of course they do it better. Play to the dks strengths and youll do fine.

So according to you what are DK's strengths?

Ultigen bleeds and poison dots with lots of burst. Honestly but you need to bring every weapon to the toolbar. Petrify wings or shuffle are needed.

Tetrafy

Vapirko wrote: »

Mag DK is fine, hybrid has been made a very viable option by @SkysOutThizeOut as see above, but if you want to go straight stamina there isn’t a whole lot of options. It’s pretty much go super tanky and wear them down or go home. Similar to Stam sorcs they jsut have no class burst and since dizzy swing is pretty much a none option these days it’s tough. But any changes would have to be done carefully becuse unlike Stam sorcs, Stam DKs still have a couple of very strong dots, Major fracture, major mending, minor brutality, and imo better passives, or at least more passives. So, they don’t need much, just a bit of burst.

You don't have to play heavy armor. There are niche builds out there in med.

Flame_of_Hades

Tetrafy wrote: »

I use a medium build. I run 6 med 1 heavy helm I believe. Hundings, spriggans. I use dw and bow, dw main hand weapon enchant back hand poison bow weapon enchant. Skills are usually poison claw, snipe for debuff, timestop for aoe and shield on dw bar by blocking because of psyjic 5k shield. Monster sets I switch between bloodspawn, zaan and veledrith for wd. I run cps in crit. So I can stack more wd on armor and I run batmans or uncle donnies and poison armor is my main burst. It literally makes enemies lose all resists so I lay dw bleeds poison claw dot poison inject then spin to win or spammable and if I get a cheap super use it again. Easy peasy 1v1 for the most part. Run wings or shuffle. And petrify cause why not we dks.

Wait time stop for aoe? Snipe for debuff? Who are you fighting? Level 10 players? Or are you zerging..

Tetrafy

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

I use a medium build. I run 6 med 1 heavy helm I believe. Hundings, spriggans. I use dw and bow, dw main hand weapon enchant back hand poison bow weapon enchant. Skills are usually poison claw, snipe for debuff, timestop for aoe and shield on dw bar by blocking because of psyjic 5k shield. Monster sets I switch between bloodspawn, zaan and veledrith for wd. I run cps in crit. So I can stack more wd on armor and I run batmans or uncle donnies and poison armor is my main burst. It literally makes enemies lose all resists so I lay dw bleeds poison claw dot poison inject then spin to win or spammable and if I get a cheap super use it again. Easy peasy 1v1 for the most part. Run wings or shuffle. And petrify cause why not we dks.

Wait time stop for aoe? Snipe for debuff? Who are you fighting? Level 10 players? Or are you zerging..

Nope I even use it in small group and bgs. Snipe poison armor snipe bleed poison claw time stop stw team wipe. You push on me ill just petrify speed pot roll dodge dip out or batman to keep me alive to get away. Generally Ill 2.0 plus with the build in BGs.

TheRedRavenTR

Checkmath wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Like what? More aoe damage to pressure multiple targets simultaniously (like warden shalks) rather than applying single targets skills to each enemy?

Magicka DK already have that skill - inhale. The difference is that shalk cost 2.4k magicka while inhale is 4050k magicka.

The question was about stamdks, not magdks. Sry for the confusion.

Tankyness=Good
Damage=Good
Sustain=Good
Group utility=Bad
Healing=Good
Mobility=Bad

Im actually 100% fine with mobility being bad because DK puts so much pressure with dots and hits hard while tanking alot and shaking it all off.
Stamsorc with the kite and mobile fast paced style,Stamden with the tank it all up and wait for perfect time to burst,Stamplar utilizing bleeds and alot of Dots(jabs is a dot too kinda)stacking up for burst,Stamnb with the assasin playstyle going in and out contuniously, StamDK is the "dont try to fight me" kind of class. But it is one of the only stam classes that doesnt bring anything good to the group, the other being stamnb. I can understand stamnb because they are more like the solo assasin style but dk is the tank but it isnt usefull to the group.It is a really strong class but not worth running if not playing solo but in a smallscale grouo.

mursie

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

I mained mag dk for about a year. About a month ago, I swapped over to stam sorc. What did I notice immediately? Stam sorc melted people. Even against decent/good(ish) players, HA/blood craze/LA/puncture/bash/LA/reverb/LA/S2W was enough to kill them. On my mag dk, it took forever to kill the same players. Mag dk is very annoying to fight due to things such as fossilize and talons, but the damage is severely lacking compared to what stamina classes can pull off, the resistance is much lower than what a stamina class pulls off, and the sustain is lowed than what a stamina class pulls off.

TL:DR mag dk needs its class dots to do more damage than they currently are, so as to not be beaten out by rending slashes. Stamina is the current king in all aspects but full healer.

absolutely agree. btw - care to share that snb build? interested to run a snb / dw stamsorc. been running masters dw with auto 2h forever.

5 medium 2 heavy. (all armor is impen...)

2x medium blood spawn, max stam enchant on the shoulder, tri-glyph on the helm.

5x briarheart, belt, gloves, boots, sword, shield, 2x axes. sword and axes are infused, shield is sturdy. sword has a berserk enchant, axes have oblivion and disease damage, shield + armor have max stam enchants.

5x seventh legion, legs, chest, jewelry. armor has tri-glyphs, as for the jewelry, 1x infused weapon damage, 1x robust weapon damage, 1x healthy stam recov.

1h + shield bar = hurricane, reverb, vigor, ransack, dark deal, atro (for the stam regen buff, although it can be used if your fighting a tanky target)

dw bar = streak(im using ball of lighting for the 1/4 chance that it works, helps even the ground with ranged builds that bounce away from you), crit surge, blood craze (less damage, more heals), quick cloak, s2w, DBoS.

Disclaimer : this was designed for no-cp, if you plan on using this for duels/cp cyrodiil, you might need less regen and gain more from using furry/ravager instead of 7th legion. i can post the cp setup, but that took me all of 20 min and you might be able to come up with a better one on your own.

EDIT : Gold food and tri-pots

I like it. double infused axes are interesting (I run one nirned). I have a similar setup with auto / prisoners except dw is master's and prisoners snb is backbar only. bars are very similar but I use temporal guard for minor protection on the snb bar and bound armaments for quick cloak on the dw bar. (I wish I could use quick cloak - I prefer that skill).

overall I really feel like snb gives stamsorc those very key missing debuffs for armor / heals that they don't have in dw/2h. just feels a little noodle sometimes though.

thanks for sharing.

DirkRavenclaw

My main MagDk PVP has 5 Heavy Schacklebreaker,5 Bloodthorn 2 Valkyn Skoria

DirkRavenclaw

Ah my StamDk is still in Kyne, testing, I'm cp935, he wears 5 medium (will switch to Heavy) Schacklebreaker,5 Ashen Grip,2 Allesian Bulwark. He is fun in non cp at least

Sylphie

StamDK is one of the best dueling spec, alongside StamNB on PC NA.

MagDK imo is the second best magicka 1vX class this patch, losing to magsorc.

JumpmanLane

1kena 1 Balorgh, spinners Julianos DW Destro. Slap ele Drain on EVERYTHING. Psijic Deep thoughts in a pinch.

Attack attack and attack some more. Damage is your friend. You’ll hit them so hard they’ll die or run (to reset or just to RUN!).

All magicka, all spell damage glyphs.

Main sword nirnhoned beserker, off hand sharp crusher, Destro nirnhoned flame damage.

Use speed pots immovables stam, detect pots immovables magicka, tri pots and even spell power pots. Hot key them with addons

Takes a lot of skill. By that I mean you have to DO something to get something like resources back. Or leap up quick (weave light attacks with every whip). The damage is worth it.

You’ll run out of resources. You’ll die some. So what, rez out and punish those peasants.