NB tanks

Llilium

just came back and was super happy to see a new heal/ damage resistance buff with dark cloak, but saw that a number of nerfs have occurred to NB tanks regarding some of our other abiltiies.

now, NB tanks weren't all that amazing to begin with, but now i dont really know what to do with myself. leeching strikes is nice, bolstering darkness is good for the group but has a huge cost. but like... my NB is awful now. i play a DK tank as well and wow, its great. but i would prefer to play my NB.

anyone have any recommendations? any other nb tanks out there?

what kind of thing can we request for this class? i'd like to see some passive health regen (or like a 20% bonus like how DKs have when using dragon blood), and ult regen. we have some nice ults for tanking, great damage reduction for the group and heals with soul tether, so being able to generate some ult would be a good thing for both pve and pvp group play

Kilnerdyne

I'm not a NB tank unfortunately but if I was i'd focus on ultimate regen. Here's a link: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=87013

FlyingSwan

I had a NB saptank since, well, forever, but ZOS have killed it. Except for use in vet 4 man content - NOT including vet DLC dungeons as they are too punishing for him - the NB tank is dead as a Dodo.

I repurposed my NB tank as a hybrid tank/DD so I can complete the 4-man vet pledges (excluding vet DLC pledges) rapidly. This works well, as the bane of 4 man content is the weak DPS chars you seem to get in there, so I can bolster the DPS while still taking aggro etc. I have focused my NB tank on ultimate generation so I can fire off Warhorns regularly if the group is good, or drop my own damage dealing ultimates if they are weak, as I usually seem to be able to do more DPS than the combined group in vets these days!

But for vet trials or vet DLC dungeons, the NB tank can no longer compete and I use a Warden tank or my trustee DK tank. DK tanking is frigging boring IMO, and the Warden tank plays more dynamically, like my old NB tank used to.

Nolic1

NB Tanks work good and can be good for all content as tanks its just there not meta. So depending on what you want it to do its to hard to say.

MartiniDaniels

NB is worst of class for tanking now and got ripped of his unique features too. RIP.
It's viable still, but rather pointless imo.

I may only think about some fun magtank dps-hybrid for random normals.

josiahva

Llilium wrote: »

just came back and was super happy to see a new heal/ damage resistance buff with dark cloak, but saw that a number of nerfs have occurred to NB tanks regarding some of our other abiltiies.

now, NB tanks weren't all that amazing to begin with, but now i dont really know what to do with myself. leeching strikes is nice, bolstering darkness is good for the group but has a huge cost. but like... my NB is awful now. i play a DK tank as well and wow, its great. but i would prefer to play my NB.

anyone have any recommendations? any other nb tanks out there?

what kind of thing can we request for this class? i'd like to see some passive health regen (or like a 20% bonus like how DKs have when using dragon blood), and ult regen. we have some nice ults for tanking, great damage reduction for the group and heals with soul tether, so being able to generate some ult would be a good thing for both pve and pvp group play

Health regen is worthless. As a main tank, the 2 abilities I hate the most are health regen and healing received...I would much rather have magicka(or stamina) regen in the place of either...its far more useful to me since my health only rarely drops below 75%(though I suppose I use more damage shields than the average tank) As for nightblade tanking...well, you are swimming against the ZOS current there, the powers that be have decreed nightblade isn't meant to tank as well as DK(or even close) but I suppose its a fair tradeoff since DKs dont do the best DPS either.

They could plug so many holes in custom builds though with skillcrafting(as doubtful as it is currently)

exeeter702

When tanks lost the ability to use evasion due to armor type restriction, it inadvertently gave NBs a unique boon with tavas plus mirage. That coupled with their catalyst and siphoner passives and in some cases akaviri set, NB tanks had unrivalled ult gen vs the others.

Then zos decided to leave tavas completely untouched along side the major evasion buff changes, and the rest is history.

Thats twice now that NB tanks lost their unique strengths via indirect nerfs to unrelated universal changes to the core game. Collateral nerfs if you will.

max_only

We were gods, now, on top of everything else, we take 25% less red circle damage. Great. Yay.

No I’ve permanently retired my NB tank, nerf after nerf after nerf. I don’t even know why we still have that heavy armor passive in our class skill line.

I miss my saptank.

BlazingDynamo

NB tanks need the original major evasion back. It tied into the core play style. With Mirage it was the bread and butter on NB tanks. They need a better class sustain. Siphoning strikes is garbo now. Dark cloak is amazing but not enough on it's own. Not sure when they nered bolstering darkness but it use to be 70% mitigation for the caster.

Just restore everything they nerfed please. Best class to tank on hands down.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

im playing NB tank after 4 years of perma stamblade...and I can say its solid as hell...however its nothing like warden and DK...so you cannot use the same playstyle that somehow fits dk/warden...NB its different and stronger in terms of it...the only setback for groups is the engulfing flames which DKs have...but then again...that's for min/max ladderboard runs...and if you need EF for the raid grp to perform then the grp itself has serious issues. as for what im using...im sorry but I dont like to share...for free >:3

P.S.: they say gold opens every door...but makes a khajiit loose a word.

ccfeeling

I respec my 2 NB tanks to DPS after ZOS nerfed our major evasion. Im pretty sure the dev team never play this class tank deeply. Anyway they can do whatever they want.

I got a DK and Templar tank too, but respect to DPS as well, I dont wanna tank anymore when I lost my NB tank.

DK vs NB tank, its freaking ez mode, ZOS buffed the strong class and nerfed the weak, is that a joke? Lol

Llilium

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

im playing NB tank after 4 years of perma stamblade...and I can say its solid as hell...however its nothing like warden and DK...so you cannot use the same playstyle that somehow fits dk/warden...NB its different and stronger in terms of it...the only setback for groups is the engulfing flames which DKs have...but then again...that's for min/max ladderboard runs...and if you need EF for the raid grp to perform then the grp itself has serious issues. as for what im using...im sorry but I dont like to share...for free >:3

P.S.: they say gold opens every door...but makes a khajiit loose a word.

eh... i've played a stam NB tank since day 1 of this game. i used my gear on my DK tank and it's 500% better.

I prefer my NB but to say it's solid is questionable. i want to see what you're doing and what your build is to be able to feel like i can agree

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

ccfeeling wrote: »

I respec my 2 NB tanks to DPS after ZOS nerfed our major evasion. Im pretty sure the dev team never play this class tank deeply. Anyway they can do whatever they want.

I got a DK and Templar tank too, but respect to DPS as well, I dont wanna tank anymore when I lost my NB tank.

DK vs NB tank, its freaking ez mode, ZOS buffed the strong class and nerfed the weak, is that a joke? Lol

passive dodging its something that no game should ever have...im so glad its gone...for the simple fact that 1st year of the game I had a build that hit 80% combat dodge...gl landing a hit...sure it was annoying cuz back then u could dodge healing ticks so u needed only direct healings...but since u barely got any hit and as a tank nothing could 1 shot...it didn't rly matter at all...then after major/minor buffs were implemented somehow passive dodge from mirage was still bugged and the proc ratio was smt like dodge/dodge/dodge/dodge/hit/dodge repeat instead of hit/hit/hit/hit/dodge/hit repeat...so yes now its just better and I like this this way.
I quite hate that people always complain about new stuff and changes be they nerfs or buffs instead of working around it and make it work right for you...yes I agree dk its still best tanking class but looking from far picture then u can see nb its the best stam/mag this game have so yeah also it would be rly pointless to have all class perform equally with no difference just different icons/skill names that do the same thing? no thx...as I said my nb tank its rly strong and if I screw up right now its cuz l2p issues which for me are understandable since my brain using dps behavior after all time so yeah im good...cant wait for new changes and new racials...hopefully khajiit gets something this time instead of a damn passive name and icon change(yes robust constitution its you im talking about!)

ccfeeling

Well said .

Yeah I am pretty sure there are many excellent players in the game .

Have you main tank the harder trial such as VMOL , VHOF , VAS+ , VCR+ and tank the latest DLC - VFL , VSCP , VMOS , MHK HM and VBRP ?

Can you share some youtubes , no offence , I honestly wanna L2P , maybe my NB tank will return one day .

Thank you !

Llilium

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

I'm not a NB tank unfortunately but if I was i'd focus on ultimate regen. Here's a link: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=87013

i like it i had a similar build for my DK but i didn't like it for that toon. maybe i should swaps some stuff around to my nb

MartiniDaniels

It's hilarious how people are stable on "passive dodge is inappropriate" in game where ton of meta sets rely on "proc chance".

"It was headache for somebody in PVP so we ditched it in PVE, tank should be dk or warden, healer should be templar or warden.. who cares about non-dps NB?" (c) devs, reps etc

_Salty_

I played a sap tank since console launch. It has been systematically gutted with every patch. What's left is a cruel joke compared to what it once was.

Silver_Strider

They really ruined NB Tanks (and Healers) in Murkmire. The removal of Minor Vitality from Swallow Soul, the damage removal of Refreshing Path, and the reworking of Major Evasion pretty much scrapped everything that made NB Tanking unique or useful in the 1st place.

As for ideas on improving NB Tank's tookit, I have a laundry list of suggestions.
1) Have Blur apply to Teammates. Since this skill is now AoE mitigation instead of Dodge Chance, I feel it would be akin to DK's Obsidian Shield and Warden's Frost Cloak in terms of defensive utility. While AoE mitigation might be somewhat more powerful in terms of PvP and the like, the fact of the matter is, its not a unique buff at all since its easily replicated with the Gossamer set, not to mention all the other methods of acquiring this buff (Blade Cloak, Shuffle, etc). The only problem with this suggestion is that Magblade would be even more powerful in PvE content since they'd have access to it too and while it would be a DPS loss for them to run it, it would be a small price to pay for such utility.

2) Give Path of Darkness a synergy that grants Empower w/ Refreshing Path granting 2 Empower stacks. This is honestly a very minor change to NB utility but one that I feel that would greatly benefit NB Tanks and Healers since we're losing out on the damage we had from Refreshing Path and gaining next to nothing for it and while again, Magblade gaining more utility in the form of Twisting Path getting an Empower Synergy for allies to use (easily dealt with by removing the synergy from Twisting) I feel that's a small price to pay to make NB Tanks and Healers more useful.

3) Have Debilitate apply Minor Lifesteal to the target. Trash skill that gains some minor utility for Tanks and Healers to run it. DPS won't use it because it's a DPS loss but at least it'll finally get a functional, albeit minor, purpose and it let's Tanks/Healers get back some of the damage we'd otherwise lose for using Refreshing Path.

4) Have Dark Shade scale on Health and root enemies hit by the AoE attack. I'm also fine with the Trap morph of Fear getting the root but I feel that Dark Shade would benefit from a slight buff since even with the AoE Maim, people still prefer Heroic Slash for obvious reasons. Or have Shade's Snare enemies while Fear Trap becomes a root.

5) Reduce the cost of Soul Siphon down to 100 Ultimate. Simply put, this ultimate is bad when compared to other Healer Ultimates on any level. It costs twice as much as Warden's Tree, which also have several other benefits to them, such as Minor Toughness, Major Mending AND refunding some of the Ultimate cost, Templar Ultimate that is a super powerful PvP tool for groups and the Resto Ultimate is godly with all that it does for a slightly lower cost than Soul Siphon. Lowering the cost of this ultimate is hardly gamebreaking.

6) Have Reaper's Mark restore X Max Magic/Stamina (whichever is lower) upon enemy death, instead of Major Berserk. If effect ends before target dies, restore only 20% of X instead. Again, a sustain buff for the downtrodden NB Tanks that can't catch a break. It's a direct nerf to the DPS potential of this skill with the loss of Major Berserk but honestly, who was using this skill outside of vMA runs, if even that. Even with Piercing Mark being nerfed, it's still the go to morph for PvP purposes and Reaper Mark becoming a half decent sustain tool as well as a means of applying Major Fracture should Ice Staff Tanking come into play, so it seems like an alright adjustment to an otherwise meh skill.

7) Alter the Dark Vigor passive to increase healing received for each Shadow ability slotted by 1/2% each on top of its current effects. We've lost Minor Vitality and this is compensation for it. It won't fully make up the difference but a buff's a buff. Hell, you could even increase it to 2/4% and it honestly would still be weaker than DK in any practical application but that would be somewhat powerful in PvP so I'll settle for 2% per skill.

8) Change Dark Veil to a 7/15% dodge chance while blocking. Bake the increased duration previously granted into the skills directly. Keeping Tava Dodge Tanks alive while keeping the flavor for Tanking purposes only, since blocking is a Stamina killer otherwise. It's not like NB has the sustain nor burst heal required to be permablockers in PvP that this change wouldn't alter NB in PvP all that much but offer NB Tanks much needed support in PvE content and it allows them to keep Tava utility.

MLGProPlayer

This is what ZOS does. They look at an area where a class is underperforming, and then they nerf them there. Nobody knows why, not even ZOS themselves.

I've been gaming for 20+ years and can confidently say that ESO is one of the worst balanced games I've ever played.

MartiniDaniels

^ great insights
still, i don't understand a heck about damage on tanks, at least in vets. If mob is 400k hp, those extra 2-3k dps from tank means nothing. Better spent those slot and resources on something useful for group or survival.

I just had example in wgt.. we got templar tank.. what's he doing - he runs to daedroth and throws spears before taunting, as a result daedroth ignores tank and chases second dps which hits daedroth with bow before tank do. And as we have ~6 lonely daedroth in that dungeon, situation repeats EACH time.. that's how wish to do something useful or do some damage ends up in failing in simplest thing like taunt mob before he run to dps. Of course he can throw spears earlier, but in harsh conditions when everything is burning, half of battlefield is covered with deadly aoe, tank should think about blocking, taunting, interrupting and cc'ing adds while following one-shot mechanics and so on, not about how he can deal extra 2k dps.

IwakuraLain42

Ignore the non-sense about "every class can fulfill every role", after playing this game for a few years it's plainly obvious that this is not the way how ZOS "balances" the classes. This is how the classes are supposed to be played:

• Tanks: the tank class that needs to work is DK, to a lesser extent Warden.
• Healer: the healing class the needs to work is Templar, to a lesser extent Warden.
• DPS: Sorcs, Nightblade, evtl. Templar. Will be shuffled regularly
• PvP: Warden is meant mainly as PvP class, as is MagDK. Everything else will be shuffled regularly

Everything else that falls outside these parameters (i.e. Nightblade healer or tanks) simply don't matter. If they work, fine, if a patch/nerf destroys them, tough luck.

If you care about balanced classes in the Trinity system I would recommend looking for another games because ZOS simply does not care and will in all likelihood never archive this.

Knootewoot

Llilium wrote: »

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

I'm not a NB tank unfortunately but if I was i'd focus on ultimate regen. Here's a link: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=87013

i like it i had a similar build for my DK but i didn't like it for that toon. maybe i should swaps some stuff around to my nb

This one doesn't work anymore unless you dodge roll.

Tavas favor was supposed to generate ultimate when Mirage still gave you 15% dodge chance. It doesn't anymore so Tavas Favor is useless now.

Dracan_Fontom

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Ignore the non-sense about "every class can fulfill every role", after playing this game for a few years it's plainly obvious that this is not the way how ZOS "balances" the classes. This is how the classes are supposed to be played:

• Tanks: the tank class that needs to work is DK, to a lesser extent Warden.
• Healer: the healing class the needs to work is Templar, to a lesser extent Warden.
• DPS: Sorcs, Nightblade, evtl. Templar. Will be shuffled regularly
• PvP: Warden is meant mainly as PvP class, as is MagDK. Everything else will be shuffled regularly

Everything else that falls outside these parameters (i.e. Nightblade healer or tanks) simply don't matter. If they work, fine, if a patch/nerf destroys them, tough luck.

If you care about balanced classes in the Trinity system I would recommend looking for another games because ZOS simply does not care and will in all likelihood never archive this.

That is an awful idea and I'm positive many people will disagree with you.

redlink1979

I have an argonian NB tank, atm running Battalion Defender + Ebon + Lord Warden.

FlyingSwan

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

^ great insights
still, i don't understand a heck about damage on tanks, at least in vets. If mob is 400k hp, those extra 2-3k dps from tank means nothing. Better spent those slot and resources on something useful for group or survival.

I just had example in wgt.. we got templar tank.. what's he doing - he runs to daedroth and throws spears before taunting, as a result daedroth ignores tank and chases second dps which hits daedroth with bow before tank do. And as we have ~6 lonely daedroth in that dungeon, situation repeats EACH time.. that's how wish to do something useful or do some damage ends up in failing in simplest thing like taunt mob before he run to dps. Of course he can throw spears earlier, but in harsh conditions when everything is burning, half of battlefield is covered with deadly aoe, tank should think about blocking, taunting, interrupting and cc'ing adds while following one-shot mechanics and so on, not about how he can deal extra 2k dps.

You have to remember that all normal dungeons and all non-DLC vet dungeons do not *need* a 'proper' tank, due to them being faceroll and light on any tank specific mechanics. I tend to include vWGT and vICP in this, because whilst they were tough on release, they are quite straightforward these days and I regularly PUG them, mostly with success.

So for me, when I run vet pledges, I tank them in medium damage sets but of course my priority is controlling the battlefield: Taunt and CC as a bare minimum and then join in despatching the threat as quickly as I can. So all I need to do is slot Inner Fire, PA, Vigor and my chosen CC. With my remaining 6 slots I can line up some damage dealing skills, self and group buffs. I tend to view it that I am soloing those basic dungeons but if some other people want to come along for the ride, then I am cool with that.

The issue in vet pledges is not that I can't contol the battlefield, it's that I am usually thrown in with a pair of DDs (and I use the term loosely) who can only pull 10k combined DPS, but with a medium armour wearing tank I can retain the aggro constantly, self-heal, CC, buff and still do over 20k DPS extra, this just makes life easier for the whole group, as survivability is intrinsically related to sustain and sustain is improved by getting the fight over with ASAP. There is zero point buffing group damage on a group pulling a mere 10k combined damage, if I can bring in a char that's going to outstrip that damage on her own. 20% of a metaphorical nothing is still nothing...

I do however have 2 sets of heavy tanking armour in my Dressing Room loadout, so on the rare occasion we're dealing with a boss that's challenging, I can move into the health tank role for real.

My caveat is of course I am CP-capped and have all the meta-sets and monster gear in the appropriate traits for my vet trials chars, I just have not min-maxed this 'pledge tank' as there's no need for min-maxing in the run of the mill four man content.