Necromancy? Really? You can't even make Magden competitive in PVE.

TheGreatBlackBear

You all still haven't given end game raiders a reason to bring along Magdens (a class that I actually spent money on)but you're (supposedly) introducing another class? What a joke. Will you abandon the new class after a while too? This is very disappointing ZoS.

Morgul667

Id rather have them fix the lag

But necro is a cool addition though

Peekachu99

I think it’s funny that you assume “end game” revolves exclusively around Trials and their respective communities and concerns. I do Trials to get my skins and then never again—not worth the organizational hazards and ego-trips otherwise. To be frank, Trials in this game are an absolute joke given the bugs and hobbled social tools compared to games that treat this content seriously.

Magden performs admirably in 99% of the other areas of the game in each of the three roles, so your complaints are heard in a very small echo-chamber only. One ZoS clearly doesn’t care all that much about.

Even TERA has better functioning and tuned group content. That’s pretty sad.

Turelus

Magden is fine for end game trials if you're not doing them competitively.

Necromancer however it turns out will be the same. You don't have to conform to "the best" in order to beat ESO's content if the group is competent enough.

If you are trying to go for competitive runs then you shouldn't care how good any class is, you should just be playing the best ones as your goal is scores not enjoyment of a class.

TheGreatBlackBear

If you don't think trials matter that much fine. That's your opinion but the fact of the matter is it's an activity that I (and many people) enjoy doing and for harder content magdens are as welcome as a tax collector. It's not just the relative lack of DPS on a magden it's also how poorly the class is designed. You have to back up 15 metres to get max dam out of your spammable (birds) but by doing to you're out of group heals, buffs and Zaan range. You have to cast (an increased cost ) fetcherfor optimal damage you are forced to have bird or prey double barred for beserk plus Netch and I could write on and on about the hot mess that is eternal guardian. So yea the toon has design problems, whether it's in a trial, group dungeons or the tutorial.

Dracan_Fontom

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I think it’s funny that you assume “end game” revolves exclusively around Trials and their respective communities and concerns. I do Trials to get my skins and then never again—not worth the organizational hazards and ego-trips otherwise. To be frank, Trials in this game are an absolute joke given the bugs and hobbled social tools compared to games that treat this content seriously.

Magden performs admirably in 99% of the other areas of the game in each of the three roles, so your complaints are heard in a very small echo-chamber only. One ZoS clearly doesn’t care all that much about.

Even TERA has better functioning and tuned group content. That’s pretty sad.

And TERA also plays much worse.

Stibbons

Magdens got nerfed pretty hard few times. Now the class in pretty much unplayable. Same will hapen to Necromancers. Well i will make necro and power level it to max level in two days. Then traight to pvp with full champion points to fun. Then when nerfhammer hits it you can use it as extra bankslots like i use my magden now.

TheGreatBlackBear

I love how people are so laissez-faire when it comes to Magdens. "Who cares if they suck?" "They're good enough for casuals and non competitive play." "Trials are buggy I can't believe you like them." Replace Magden with any random crown store crap and it's easy to get upset about the lack of value on offer.

Turelus

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I love how people are so laissez-faire when it comes to Magdens. "Who cares if they suck?" "They're good enough for casuals and non competitive play." "Trials are buggy I can't believe you like them." Replace Magden with any random crown store crap and it's easy to get upset about the lack of value on offer.

There is always going to be a class which sucks in competitive play though, if you're goal is to win competitive content you're always going to go for the best classes.
Could the Magden do with a buff? Sure, not many people are going to argue that. However complaining new classes is a stupid idea because one class and build doesn't perform well enough for end game trials isn't a good argument.

If you want Magden buffed, argue for a Magden buff and give information on that.

Lifemocker

Magwardens are perfectly fine in trials unless you want the top score.

TheGreatBlackBear

I brought up Magden because nothing in the way the way ZoS handled the situation of balancing Stamden vs Magden or even warden vs other classes is reason for hope that they'll do better with the new class. If you're trying and failing at juggling five class why would six be a smart idea? And if you read my post nowhere did I ask for a buff. I merely expressed my disappointment that they (seemly) gave up on improving Magden.

SydneyGrey

Magdens are great healers. That's what they're meant to be.

tinythinker

Turelus wrote: »

Magden is fine for end game trials if you're not doing them competitively.

Necromancer however it turns out will be the same. You don't have to conform to "the best" in order to beat ESO's content if the group is competent enough.

If you are trying to go for competitive runs then you shouldn't care how good any class is, you should just be playing the best ones as your goal is scores not enjoyment of a class.

In every MMO with competitive end-game, there is the meta for optimization of speed runs. You can generally do fine on any class otherwise. But because so many people want to emulate those doing speed clears, the notion of what's viable or not filters down. That said, speed runs are a viable form of fun for some people, and all classes should be competent enough to go fast through any content, even if they aren't the most optimal for die-hard number crunchers.

(If I was going to harp on a class combat issue, it would be that not everyone can/wants to weave, so there needs to be and useful options for each class for those people as well even if they aren't #1 for deeps. Which then gets into the weeds with content that makes healing and tanking fun and useful, etc, etc but that would go way off topic.)

Turelus

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I brought up Magden because nothing in the way the way ZoS handled the situation of balancing Stamden vs Magden or even warden vs other classes is reason for hope that they'll do better with the new class. If you're trying and failing at juggling five class why would six be a smart idea? And if you read my post nowhere did I ask for a buff. I merely expressed my disappointment that they (seemly) gave up on improving Magden.

Because regardless of how bad the balance is, without new content and character options (classes/races) an MMO is going to get very stale and people are going to leave for new things.
Necromancer has a huge demand and desire from the community. Look how many times it's been requested since the Warden was released.
If we wait for ZOS to have perfect (or near perfect) balance before we add any new skills or classes we'll all have long grown bored and left.

MLGProPlayer

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Magdens are great healers. That's what they're meant to be.

Templars are top healers and top DPS.

MLGProPlayer

Magden is in a really bad spot right now (and really has been since the class launched in 2017.

- Toughest rotation in the game
- Lowest DPS in the game

You have to put in maximum effort for minimum output. They have no utility either, so they bring absolutely nothing to a team. They're the worst endgame class by a considerable margin. You'll want a magsorc before you even consider a magden (and magsorcs are bad, but nowhere near as bad as magdens).

ZOS actually nerfed them again last patch, despite them being the worst class even before that.

DjMuscleboy02

Turelus wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I love how people are so laissez-faire when it comes to Magdens. "Who cares if they suck?" "They're good enough for casuals and non competitive play." "Trials are buggy I can't believe you like them." Replace Magden with any random crown store crap and it's easy to get upset about the lack of value on offer.

There is always going to be a class which sucks in competitive play though, if you're goal is to win competitive content you're always going to go for the best classes.
Could the Magden do with a buff? Sure, not many people are going to argue that. However complaining new classes is a stupid idea because one class and build doesn't perform well enough for end game trials isn't a good argument.

If you want Magden buffed, argue for a Magden buff and give information on that.

It's not 1 class that isn't performing. It's 4. Dps aren't even truly considered for competitive groups unless it's a nightblade. The other classes each make about one mandatory appearance as a support only for unique buffs and sometimes not even then. For competitive groups, yes there will always be a "best" class that there will be the most of. It's been like that forever, but never to this extent. When EVERY dps in group is the same, there's a problem.

But yes, any class can complete content and yes any class will do fine in non competitive runs, which are a majority of groups. And yes, I too am excited for Necromancer.

MLGProPlayer

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I love how people are so laissez-faire when it comes to Magdens. "Who cares if they suck?" "They're good enough for casuals and non competitive play." "Trials are buggy I can't believe you like them." Replace Magden with any random crown store crap and it's easy to get upset about the lack of value on offer.

There is always going to be a class which sucks in competitive play though, if you're goal is to win competitive content you're always going to go for the best classes.
Could the Magden do with a buff? Sure, not many people are going to argue that. However complaining new classes is a stupid idea because one class and build doesn't perform well enough for end game trials isn't a good argument.

If you want Magden buffed, argue for a Magden buff and give information on that.

It's not 1 class that isn't performing. It's 4. Dps aren't even truly considered for competitive groups unless it's a nightblade. The other classes each make about one mandatory appearance as a support only for unique buffs and sometimes not even then. For competitive groups, yes there will always be a "best" class that there will be the most of. It's been like that forever, but never to this extent. When EVERY dps in group is the same, there's a problem.

But yes, any class can complete content and yes any class will do fine in non competitive runs, which are a majority of groups. And yes, I too am excited for Necromancer.

Magplar is a competitive DPS class right now too.

DPS would be the easiest role to achieve parity in as you just need to play with damage values on abilities/passives. But that seems to be too difficult for ZOS.

Healer/tank is tougher to balance because it requires reworking entire abilities. But DPS can be done with minimal effort.

But really, there is no reason why every class shouldn't be competitive in every role, if ZOS' balance team was doing their job.

GreenhaloX

You can't make Magden competitive in PvE.. really?.. What is so competitive about PvE, anyways? Any sets will work in PvE, if you really think about it. PvE is about what sets and build that work for you. My Magden is quite brutal in PvE. It's using the right skillset, combos and rotation; plus having the right sets that maximize the resources and spell damage to your liking, and not whatever other peeps think it's supposedly BiS or meta.

DjMuscleboy02

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I love how people are so laissez-faire when it comes to Magdens. "Who cares if they suck?" "They're good enough for casuals and non competitive play." "Trials are buggy I can't believe you like them." Replace Magden with any random crown store crap and it's easy to get upset about the lack of value on offer.

There is always going to be a class which sucks in competitive play though, if you're goal is to win competitive content you're always going to go for the best classes.
Could the Magden do with a buff? Sure, not many people are going to argue that. However complaining new classes is a stupid idea because one class and build doesn't perform well enough for end game trials isn't a good argument.

If you want Magden buffed, argue for a Magden buff and give information on that.

It's not 1 class that isn't performing. It's 4. Dps aren't even truly considered for competitive groups unless it's a nightblade. The other classes each make about one mandatory appearance as a support only for unique buffs and sometimes not even then. For competitive groups, yes there will always be a "best" class that there will be the most of. It's been like that forever, but never to this extent. When EVERY dps in group is the same, there's a problem.

But yes, any class can complete content and yes any class will do fine in non competitive runs, which are a majority of groups. And yes, I too am excited for Necromancer.

Magplar is a competitive DPS class right now too.

DPS would be the easiest role to achieve parity in as you just need to play with damage values on abilities/passives. But that seems to be too difficult for ZOS.

Healer/tank is tougher to balance because it requires reworking entire abilities. But DPS can be done with minimal effort.

But really, there is no reason why every class shouldn't be competitive in every role, if ZOS' balance team was doing their job.

It's not though.

O_LYKOS

Not everything is about end game pve. But that being said I’ve seen plenty of wardens end game. There has always been more of one class than others. I remember trials with no mag dks or magblades. It happens.

Viscous119

NM

TheGreatBlackBear

GreenhaloX wrote: »

You can't make Magden competitive in PvE.. really?.. What is so competitive about PvE, anyways? Any sets will work in PvE, if you really think about it. PvE is about what sets and build that work for you. My Magden is quite brutal in PvE. It's using the right skillset, combos and rotation; plus having the right sets that maximize the resources and spell damage to your liking, and not whatever other peeps think it's supposedly BiS or meta.

Mag Warden DPS is a pure DPS without the DPS. There's also no group utility in terms of synergies or buffs provided. I might get lucky and heal a teammate with lotus when attacking but that's it. Even as a master architect slave a warden is not desirable to have in the raid as a magblade or magplar can do that and pump out more DPS.

TheGreatBlackBear

Viscous119 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

You all still haven't given end game raiders a reason to bring along Magdens (a class that I actually spent money on)but you're (supposedly) introducing another class? What a joke. Will you abandon the new class after a while too? This is very disappointing ZoS.

Get your facts straight kiddo. The Necromancer SKILL LINE is just that.. a new skill line...It is not a new class. Just like the Psijic SKILL line from summerset. You don't have to use the skill line if you dont want to. Just remember the Necromancer is not a bonafide class.

Ok Daddy/Mommy.

lagrue

Yeah I'm sure they'll "abandon" MagDen just like they abandoned the other 4 classes when Warden came out -

Oh wait? they didn't do that?

They continue, to this day, to tweak and change all classes?

You don't say...

MLGProPlayer

lagrue wrote: »

Yeah I'm sure they'll "abandon" MagDen just like they abandoned the other 4 classes when Warden came out -

Oh wait? they didn't do that?

They continue, to this day, to tweak and change all classes?

You don't say...

They actually abandoned magden after it released. They haven't buffed it once in those 20 months. I guess nerfs count as tweaks. Not sure what kind of pleasure the ZOS balance team derives drom nerfing the weakest class in the game every patch.

MLGProPlayer

Viscous119 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

You all still haven't given end game raiders a reason to bring along Magdens (a class that I actually spent money on)but you're (supposedly) introducing another class? What a joke. Will you abandon the new class after a while too? This is very disappointing ZoS.

Get your facts straight kiddo. The Necromancer SKILL LINE is just that.. a new skill line...It is not a new class. Just like the Psijic SKILL line from summerset. You don't have to use the skill line if you dont want to. Just remember the Necromancer is not a bonafide class.

It's been datamined as a new class.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

Magdens are indeed non-existent in non-casual end game trials. Mageblades and Magplars are the meta now + 1 sorc (which under performs in sustain and damage) to buff the group with crit chance and give conduits to the tank. There is just no reason to run as Magden.

Hope Magcros will be better. As most games do it is a good strategy to over buff them to get more people to play them to see their full potential. Then the nerfs need to come to make them similar to other classes.

lagrue

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

Yeah I'm sure they'll "abandon" MagDen just like they abandoned the other 4 classes when Warden came out -

Oh wait? they didn't do that?

They continue, to this day, to tweak and change all classes?

You don't say...

They actually abandoned magden after it released. They haven't buffed it once in those 20 months. I guess nerfs count as tweaks. Not sure what kind of pleasure the ZOS balance team derives from nerfing the weakest class in the game every patch.

That's fair, and I don't pretend to understand the "logic" of their choices, as most are seen as universally bad or unnecessary. Though I wouldn't consider changes, even if bad and poorly thought out, to be abandonment.

I think it's just a bit silly of OP to sing songs of doom and gloom for 1 class because a new one is being added. The two aren't even really correlated, something being added is unlikely to have any effect on MagDen.

Zardayne

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Magden is in a really bad spot right now (and really has been since the class launched in 2017.

- Toughest rotation in the game
- Lowest DPS in the game

You have to put in maximum effort for minimum output. They have no utility either, so they bring absolutely nothing to a team. They're the worst endgame class by a considerable margin. You'll want a magsorc before you even consider a magden (and magsorcs are bad, but nowhere near as bad as magdens).

ZOS actually nerfed them again last patch, despite them being the worst class even before that.

The rotation due to all of the clunkiness of skills, double casting of skills, and rebuffing is what kills it for me.I mainly heal nowadays because when I'm forced to DPS either in group or solo it just isn't smooth and feels off.

Don't get me started on the nerfed double ult bear crap..

Wifeaggro13

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I think it’s funny that you assume “end game” revolves exclusively around Trials and their respective communities and concerns. I do Trials to get my skins and then never again—not worth the organizational hazards and ego-trips otherwise. To be frank, Trials in this game are an absolute joke given the bugs and hobbled social tools compared to games that treat this content seriously.

Magden performs admirably in 99% of the other areas of the game in each of the three roles, so your complaints are heard in a very small echo-chamber only. One ZoS clearly doesn’t care all that much about.

Even TERA has better functioning and tuned group content. That’s pretty sad.

Ya ESO is not a game you can even take serious as a true MMO anymore. Not that it's a horrible game it's just not something you play with long term in mind.