Templar tank's self-healing needs a fix!

Rimasaurus

Why doesn't Templar have any per centual (%) healing skills? Compared to any other class for me and my friends Templar is the most difficult class to make a tank for veteran DLC dungeons.

We have tried stam, mag and hybrid tanks but they just wouldn't work the same way the other classes do. Vigor isn't strong and fast enough and the quick heal from Templar doesn't do horse poo and heals other players anyway stealing spot from the real healer. Repentance is good yes but not every boss has enough adds to cover that up.

I've also tried vampire tank but from my understanding, you cannot block while healing with Drain Essence.

I think this should be fixed the way NB tanks got fixed last summer. Replace a morph for one of the Restoring Light skills.

Anyone else has this problem or is it just us?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Every class is missing something, see no class ward for a nb. Repentance is a flat amount of heals though, as you said is fine and can be used by a tank just fine.

Stx

Templars have blazing shield which isnt a heal but if used correctly increases your effective health by a ton which can be better.

idk

Because there needs to be differences between classes. Some slight variance that gives each something unique. Templars do make sturdy tanks and if built right a skilled templar tank can also heal the group.

kojou

Blazing Shield used to fulfill that role, but it was nerfed many times and is much less viable now.

You can also use absorb magic from 1h and shield if there are a lot of ranged attacks.

Honor the Dead is probably your best bet. If your heal goes to another player with low health then at least you get magic back. You can also keep extended ritual down for an additional HoT and back bar a restoration staff and use ward ally.

The most successful Templar tanks I've seen have high health and high magic regen.

mocap

agree. Green Dragon can heal like 35k, especially after Igni Shield combo. Value that can reach only a full healer templar BoL.
Currently there is no emergency strong burst self-heal for templar.

However, most of dungeons (even DLC) can be tanked with 25-30k hp, though it is very hard and you need to be a very skilled tank. You can put the rest in magicka and use BoL.

usmcjdking

Just be a boss, and equip Veiled + Ravager and use manly weapon power pots. You don't need a % based heal when you have like a 22k tooltip AOE heal.

Tasear

Honor of dead is cheap to cast.

Elsterchen

Tasear wrote: »

Honor of dead is cheap to cast.

I think the problem ist, that all templar healing spells are linked to magica (and spell damage), hence their magnitude is really really bad for a tank not having a big mag-pool. (main reason why stamplars won't use these btw cost:effect ratio is just too bad).

As for vigor ... its the same problem with stamina + its (only) healing over time (partly a problem, bc i can imagine a tank tanking just can't step out of red / away from mob when at low health, like a DD would do).

BejaProphet

It is certainly ironic that templar tanks are one of the worst at healing themselves.

Kadoin

BejaProphet wrote: »

It is certainly ironic that templar tanks are one of the worst at healing themselves.

I agree, but if they had a reliable self-heal and/or hp% heal I can easily see templars being too strong...

ZeroXFF

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Every class is missing something, see no class ward for a nb. Repentance is a flat amount of heals though, as you said is fine and can be used by a tank just fine.

I'll take a heal over a ward any time. For blazing shield to be anywhere near as good as even the worst of the HP% heals, it would have to be twice as strong, because it doesn't benefit from block, minor/major vitality/mending, has only one CP star associated with it that is competing with other useful stars (unlike Blessed that is in the blue constellations), and doesn't benefit from healing received set bonuses either. Also, it can't be spammed if you got a big hit, it's only doing something if you're actually being hit.

Also, repentance is trash. And templars miss not just a proper self heal but also a CC.

WrathOfInnos

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Every class is missing something, see no class ward for a nb. Repentance is a flat amount of heals though, as you said is fine and can be used by a tank just fine.

I'll take a heal over a ward any time. For blazing shield to be anywhere near as good as even the worst of the HP% heals, it would have to be twice as strong, because it doesn't benefit from block, minor/major vitality/mending, has only one CP star associated with it that is competing with other useful stars (unlike Blessed that is in the blue constellations), and doesn't benefit from healing received set bonuses either. Also, it can't be spammed if you got a big hit, it's only doing something if you're actually being hit.

Also, repentance is trash. And templars miss not just a proper self heal but also a CC.

I think Templar tanks are intended to build more into Magicka and Spell Damage to make their healing strong.

For CC, just use Time Stop.

ZeroXFF

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Every class is missing something, see no class ward for a nb. Repentance is a flat amount of heals though, as you said is fine and can be used by a tank just fine.

I'll take a heal over a ward any time. For blazing shield to be anywhere near as good as even the worst of the HP% heals, it would have to be twice as strong, because it doesn't benefit from block, minor/major vitality/mending, has only one CP star associated with it that is competing with other useful stars (unlike Blessed that is in the blue constellations), and doesn't benefit from healing received set bonuses either. Also, it can't be spammed if you got a big hit, it's only doing something if you're actually being hit.

Also, repentance is trash. And templars miss not just a proper self heal but also a CC.

I think Templar tanks are intended to build more into Magicka and Spell Damage to make their healing strong.

For CC, just use Time Stop.

That's what I do. But that means less health, which in turn means less tankiness. Templars are forced to choose between being able to survive big hits and being able to sustain themselves, while other classes get both by stacking health.

Also, time stop is bad. It either requires to drop block or it takes so long to stun that all the adds will walk out of the area before it fully charges. DK, warden and sorc CC is instant and doesn't give immunity, allowing you to keep mobs stationary for way longer.

Pulque

Templar tank is designed to offset damage through shield not through self-healing. Sun shield combined with bone shield, Templar tank has the highest shield stacking number in mirkmure. With both shields on you have around 30k shield, now mitigated by armor, damage reduction and cp.
Since shield doesn’t take damage mitigation from blocking, Templar tank mechanics is fundamentally different from all others. A Templar tank don’t need to block most attacks except some CC and tank buster. Compared to other tanks, Templar gets effective stamina regen, and redistributes its stamina to shields not blocking.
Why Templar tank was *** before mirkmure? Because damage mitigation on shield doesn’t count resistance. Now you got multiplicative ~47% mitigation to your shield. Dis this change make Templar OP? No, 3k magicka/stam in exchange for ~>30k raw damage is not super effective, but Templar tank is at least viable now, not trash any more.

Nolic1

Templars do have the strongest shield in the game for a tank that is based on 30% of your max health at base at 30k hp its over 10k and with Vigor you can self heal if you build for stamina and some weapon damage but honor the dead works to if you build for good magicka recovery you can self sustain.

DoobZ69

If you're serious about tanking then roll a DK. If not then keep playing the Templar and live with what you got.

Elsterchen

Nolic1 wrote: »

Templars do have the strongest shield in the game for a tank that is based on 30% of your max health at base at 30k hp its over 10k and with Vigor you can self heal if you build for stamina and some weapon damage but honor the dead works to if you build for good magicka recovery you can self sustain.

Have a look at other shields too please before jumping to the hilarious conclusion sun shield and its morphs is better than any other comparable shield, its a waste of a skill point ... and has been for a long, long time. especially for stamina users (vigor) spiked shield (fighters guild shield offers more defence + defence for allies(!) as well as more damage to the enemy for a better cost ratio (less percent of ressource pool - remember sun shield and morphs are costly for a stamina player with a mag pool of only a little more then 10k mag) .

edit: In short: I disagree!

Soris

#BuffBlazingShield2k19

Soris

I mean it.

Rimasaurus

DoobZ69 wrote: »

If you're serious about tanking then roll a DK. If not then keep playing the Templar and live with what you got.

Why should I live with what I got if NB tanks got their %-healing skill too? That is why I made this post, in hope Templar would get a similar treatment in somewhere in the future. Funny enough I had this same problem with NB tank too year ago but it got fixed so maybe we might get the same update for Templar too.

DoobZ69

Rimasaurus wrote: »

DoobZ69 wrote: »

If you're serious about tanking then roll a DK. If not then keep playing the Templar and live with what you got.

Why should I live with what I got if NB tanks got their %-healing skill too? That is why I made this post, in hope Templar would get a similar treatment in somewhere in the future. Funny enough I had this same problem with NB tank too year ago but it got fixed so maybe we might get the same update for Templar too.

Because everyone (ZOS and hardcore players) wants DK to be the META tank. I should have said "and keep pushing *** up hill". My bad.

If you're serious about tanking then roll a DK. If not then keep playing the Templar and keep pushing *** up hill.

datgladiatah

Honestly I think the worst thing this thread is pointing out about ESO self healing design is, that every class is wasting a morph on a percentile or flat health/no scaling heal rather than making a guild spell designed around that for most classes to take advantage of with their passives and other abilities. There's no reason Arctic Wind's heal should even exist because they have a whole class line for healing, yet an entire class spellslot was wasted on a tank only healing skill. It's super lame. Might as well make a Fighter's Guild or Undaunted ability do that and give those slots back for something the classes is missing, so everyone can potentially build a decent health-focused tank build

Alucu

Sorc> Clannfear, Restraining Prison
Warden> Polar Wind and vines, Gripping Shards
DK> Igneous and dragon Blood, Talons
NB> Dark Cloak, Ice Blockade
Templar> 5,5k (maybe a bit more if malubeth procs) Honor the dead tooltips on 20k Magicka that can hit other player instead of yourself, Ice Blockade

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Alucu wrote: »

Sorc> Clannfear, Restraining Prison
Warden> Polar Wind and vines, Gripping Shards
DK> Igneous and dragon Blood, Talons
NB> Dark Cloak, Ice Blockade
Templar> 5,5k Honor the dead tooltips on 20k Magicka that can hit other player instead of yourself, Ice Blockade

Ice wall is not used for the same reason the rest of the skills you have on that list. Time freeze or bows bombard would be the skills you would use in place on temps and nb tanks. Wall is use for procing back bar enchantments, you can't rely on it to cc mobs.

Also all you are forgetting about deep thoughts, which is a flat heal, heals and gives resources back, pop sun sheild and go into deep thoughts to bring your health up, the major protection from the pysjic skill line will apply to sun sheild and keep you up longer and you get resources back.

Alucu

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Sorc> Clannfear, Restraining Prison
Warden> Polar Wind and vines, Gripping Shards
DK> Igneous and dragon Blood, Talons
NB> Dark Cloak, Ice Blockade
Templar> 5,5k Honor the dead tooltips on 20k Magicka that can hit other player instead of yourself, Ice Blockade

Ice wall is not used for the same reason the rest of the skills you have on that list. Time freeze or bows bombard would be the skills you would use in place on temps and nb tanks. Wall is use for procing back bar enchantments, you can't rely on it to cc mobs.

Also all you are forgetting about deep thoughts, which is a flat heal, heals and gives resources back, pop sun sheild and go into deep thoughts to bring your health up, the major protection from the pysjic skill line will apply to sun sheild and keep you up longer and you get resources back.

Good luck with that after a nocturnal favor in shadowrealm But the bow backbar for bombard is fairly viable!

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Alucu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Sorc> Clannfear, Restraining Prison
Warden> Polar Wind and vines, Gripping Shards
DK> Igneous and dragon Blood, Talons
NB> Dark Cloak, Ice Blockade
Templar> 5,5k Honor the dead tooltips on 20k Magicka that can hit other player instead of yourself, Ice Blockade

Ice wall is not used for the same reason the rest of the skills you have on that list. Time freeze or bows bombard would be the skills you would use in place on temps and nb tanks. Wall is use for procing back bar enchantments, you can't rely on it to cc mobs.

Also all you are forgetting about deep thoughts, which is a flat heal, heals and gives resources back, pop sun sheild and go into deep thoughts to bring your health up, the major protection from the pysjic skill line will apply to sun sheild and keep you up longer and you get resources back.

Good luck with that after a nocturnal favor in shadowrealm But the bow backbar for bombard is fairly viable!

I have no idea what you mean by this. Could you please explain in detail?

Also, if I ran a tankplar, this is what my bars would look like-

Front bar s/b

Extended ritual- radiant ward- repentance(switch out for deep thoughts if needed)- heroic slash- pierce armor- ulti empowering sweep/shield discipline

Back bar ice/lighting staff

Silver leash, time freeze, wall of elements, power of the light, restoring focus- ulti warhorn

This has everything you need.

Alucu

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Sorc> Clannfear, Restraining Prison
Warden> Polar Wind and vines, Gripping Shards
DK> Igneous and dragon Blood, Talons
NB> Dark Cloak, Ice Blockade
Templar> 5,5k Honor the dead tooltips on 20k Magicka that can hit other player instead of yourself, Ice Blockade

Ice wall is not used for the same reason the rest of the skills you have on that list. Time freeze or bows bombard would be the skills you would use in place on temps and nb tanks. Wall is use for procing back bar enchantments, you can't rely on it to cc mobs.

Also all you are forgetting about deep thoughts, which is a flat heal, heals and gives resources back, pop sun sheild and go into deep thoughts to bring your health up, the major protection from the pysjic skill line will apply to sun sheild and keep you up longer and you get resources back.

Good luck with that after a nocturnal favor in shadowrealm But the bow backbar for bombard is fairly viable!

I have no idea what you mean by this. Could you please explain in detail?

It's a mechanic in vcr, z'maja "heavy attack" if you will. In the shadow realm you dont have a healer to back you up, and you need means to keep yourself alive from dots and heavy pressure, say burst healing. I believe every class has a chance at achieving this with their class toolkit, except templars most likely

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Alucu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Sorc> Clannfear, Restraining Prison
Warden> Polar Wind and vines, Gripping Shards
DK> Igneous and dragon Blood, Talons
NB> Dark Cloak, Ice Blockade
Templar> 5,5k Honor the dead tooltips on 20k Magicka that can hit other player instead of yourself, Ice Blockade

Ice wall is not used for the same reason the rest of the skills you have on that list. Time freeze or bows bombard would be the skills you would use in place on temps and nb tanks. Wall is use for procing back bar enchantments, you can't rely on it to cc mobs.

Also all you are forgetting about deep thoughts, which is a flat heal, heals and gives resources back, pop sun sheild and go into deep thoughts to bring your health up, the major protection from the pysjic skill line will apply to sun sheild and keep you up longer and you get resources back.

Good luck with that after a nocturnal favor in shadowrealm But the bow backbar for bombard is fairly viable!

I have no idea what you mean by this. Could you please explain in detail?

It's a mechanic in vcr, z'maja "heavy attack" if you will. In the shadow realm you dont have a healer to back you up, and you need means to keep yourself alive from dots and heavy pressure, say burst healing. I believe every class has a chance at achieving this with their class toolkit, except templars most likely

Fair enough but what vet trial guild would let a non dk/warden in anyway? For the vast majority of the game, tankplars work just fine.

Alucu

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Sorc> Clannfear, Restraining Prison
Warden> Polar Wind and vines, Gripping Shards
DK> Igneous and dragon Blood, Talons
NB> Dark Cloak, Ice Blockade
Templar> 5,5k Honor the dead tooltips on 20k Magicka that can hit other player instead of yourself, Ice Blockade

Ice wall is not used for the same reason the rest of the skills you have on that list. Time freeze or bows bombard would be the skills you would use in place on temps and nb tanks. Wall is use for procing back bar enchantments, you can't rely on it to cc mobs.

Also all you are forgetting about deep thoughts, which is a flat heal, heals and gives resources back, pop sun sheild and go into deep thoughts to bring your health up, the major protection from the pysjic skill line will apply to sun sheild and keep you up longer and you get resources back.

Good luck with that after a nocturnal favor in shadowrealm But the bow backbar for bombard is fairly viable!

I have no idea what you mean by this. Could you please explain in detail?

It's a mechanic in vcr, z'maja "heavy attack" if you will. In the shadow realm you dont have a healer to back you up, and you need means to keep yourself alive from dots and heavy pressure, say burst healing. I believe every class has a chance at achieving this with their class toolkit, except templars most likely

Fair enough but what vet trial guild would let a non dk/warden in anyway? For the vast majority of the game, tankplars work just fine.

That's exactly my point mate, this shouldnt be a thing. There's good reasons behind this refusal, to be honest. My guild trusted me enough lo let me do as I pleased. And I went tankplar a couple of times. But after trying, this is my clear conclusion. And every class should be able to be competitive in any role. Dont you think? Sadly, this is not the case right now.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Alucu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Alucu wrote: »

Sorc> Clannfear, Restraining Prison
Warden> Polar Wind and vines, Gripping Shards
DK> Igneous and dragon Blood, Talons
NB> Dark Cloak, Ice Blockade
Templar> 5,5k Honor the dead tooltips on 20k Magicka that can hit other player instead of yourself, Ice Blockade

Ice wall is not used for the same reason the rest of the skills you have on that list. Time freeze or bows bombard would be the skills you would use in place on temps and nb tanks. Wall is use for procing back bar enchantments, you can't rely on it to cc mobs.

Also all you are forgetting about deep thoughts, which is a flat heal, heals and gives resources back, pop sun sheild and go into deep thoughts to bring your health up, the major protection from the pysjic skill line will apply to sun sheild and keep you up longer and you get resources back.

Good luck with that after a nocturnal favor in shadowrealm But the bow backbar for bombard is fairly viable!

I have no idea what you mean by this. Could you please explain in detail?

It's a mechanic in vcr, z'maja "heavy attack" if you will. In the shadow realm you dont have a healer to back you up, and you need means to keep yourself alive from dots and heavy pressure, say burst healing. I believe every class has a chance at achieving this with their class toolkit, except templars most likely

Fair enough but what vet trial guild would let a non dk/warden in anyway? For the vast majority of the game, tankplars work just fine.

That's exactly my point mate, this shouldnt be a thing. There's good reasons behind this refusal, to be honest. My guild trusted me enough lo let me do as I pleased. And I went tankplar a couple of times. But after trying, this is my clear conclusion. And every class should be able to be competitive in any role. Dont you think? Sadly, this is not the case right now.

i suppose it depends on what you mean as "competitive", mate. If your vision of the the game is nothing but the latest timed Vet HM trials, then no, i don't think every class should be "competitive" because that mean all the classes would have to be the exact same becuase even if it was a 1% difference, those type of players would accept nothing less.

if you mean anything less then that, in my opinion, all classes are "competitive", if you know how to play your class and role. all the tools are in the game for every class to be an effective tank, something that could not be said when i started the game in 2014.