Is the Hero Engine responsible of the bad performance of ESO?

Androconium

Tandor wrote: »

I think the causes are split between some server/coding issues, some networking/ISP issues, and some client-side issues. There are certainly some client-side things that can be done to improve things, like disabling certain addons when in Cyrodiil (or not using addons at all of course), sticking with tried and tested drivers that work, not using any form of wireless connection whether for modem/router, mouse or keyboard, and keeping a clean system with no-one else sharing the internet signal. Loading times can be reduced by limiting the number of quests you're holding. Much also depends on which part of the world you're playing from, and which ISP you're connecting through.

So if you're suffering lag while playing on a notebook with 43 addons installed on wireless equipment in Australasia while your folks are streaming a movie in the next room and your kid brother is in his room downloading p0rn then it's a bit unfair to blame ZOS for their crap servers ! That said, I don't doubt that they are working constantly on further optimisation but that sort of thing tends to be a long-term exercise with the need to ensure that small incremental changes are made and fully tested so that improving one thing doesn't break something else. Always frequent your ISP's technical forum so you can see if other people are having similar issues and whether there are any changes that the ISP can make that will improve the connection. ZOS do need to fix some things at their end, but there are all manner of workarounds that players can implement that just may improve things in the meantime.

I had one person (me) on an ftth connection. Cable to the router. MM off and about eight low impact add-ons.

You response is insulting and shows that zos does not take the Australasian market seriously. This includes Indonesian, Vietnamese, Japanese and Korean potential players.

[edited for baiting/bashing comments]

jcm2606

Androconium wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I think the causes are split between some server/coding issues, some networking/ISP issues, and some client-side issues. There are certainly some client-side things that can be done to improve things, like disabling certain addons when in Cyrodiil (or not using addons at all of course), sticking with tried and tested drivers that work, not using any form of wireless connection whether for modem/router, mouse or keyboard, and keeping a clean system with no-one else sharing the internet signal. Loading times can be reduced by limiting the number of quests you're holding. Much also depends on which part of the world you're playing from, and which ISP you're connecting through.

So if you're suffering lag while playing on a notebook with 43 addons installed on wireless equipment in Australasia while your folks are streaming a movie in the next room and your kid brother is in his room downloading p0rn then it's a bit unfair to blame ZOS for their crap servers ! That said, I don't doubt that they are working constantly on further optimisation but that sort of thing tends to be a long-term exercise with the need to ensure that small incremental changes are made and fully tested so that improving one thing doesn't break something else. Always frequent your ISP's technical forum so you can see if other people are having similar issues and whether there are any changes that the ISP can make that will improve the connection. ZOS do need to fix some things at their end, but there are all manner of workarounds that players can implement that just may improve things in the meantime.

I had one person (me) on an ftth connection. Cable to the router. MM off and about eight low impact add-ons.

You response is insulting and shows that zos does not take the Australasian market seriously. This includes Indonesian, Vietnamese, Japanese and Korean potential players.

[edited for baiting/bashing comments]

It gets even worse when you consider that a VPN designed to optimise traffic routing can shave off up to 100-200ms worth of latency. A year ago, my ping was alright at 300-ish. A couple months back, that 300-ish became 400-500, which made the game borderline unplayable. I try out Mudfish, just sink $3 into it for about 18 gigs worth of data, and suddenly my ping is back to the 300 mark.

Something changed with traffic routing that caused latency to skyrocket, and considering the various threads about Akamai including traces to narrow down the bottleneck, it isn't on our end.

killmove

jcm2606 wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I think the causes are split between some server/coding issues, some networking/ISP issues, and some client-side issues. There are certainly some client-side things that can be done to improve things, like disabling certain addons when in Cyrodiil (or not using addons at all of course), sticking with tried and tested drivers that work, not using any form of wireless connection whether for modem/router, mouse or keyboard, and keeping a clean system with no-one else sharing the internet signal. Loading times can be reduced by limiting the number of quests you're holding. Much also depends on which part of the world you're playing from, and which ISP you're connecting through.

So if you're suffering lag while playing on a notebook with 43 addons installed on wireless equipment in Australasia while your folks are streaming a movie in the next room and your kid brother is in his room downloading p0rn then it's a bit unfair to blame ZOS for their crap servers ! That said, I don't doubt that they are working constantly on further optimisation but that sort of thing tends to be a long-term exercise with the need to ensure that small incremental changes are made and fully tested so that improving one thing doesn't break something else. Always frequent your ISP's technical forum so you can see if other people are having similar issues and whether there are any changes that the ISP can make that will improve the connection. ZOS do need to fix some things at their end, but there are all manner of workarounds that players can implement that just may improve things in the meantime.

I had one person (me) on an ftth connection. Cable to the router. MM off and about eight low impact add-ons.

You response is insulting and shows that zos does not take the Australasian market seriously. This includes Indonesian, Vietnamese, Japanese and Korean potential players.

[edited for baiting/bashing comments]

It gets even worse when you consider that a VPN designed to optimise traffic routing can shave off up to 100-200ms worth of latency. A year ago, my ping was alright at 300-ish. A couple months back, that 300-ish became 400-500, which made the game borderline unplayable. I try out Mudfish, just sink $3 into it for about 18 gigs worth of data, and suddenly my ping is back to the 300 mark.

Something changed with traffic routing that caused latency to skyrocket, and considering the various threads about Akamai including traces to narrow down the bottleneck, it isn't on our end.

I got the same problem also, used NordVPN and my ping was back to normal

katanagirl1

I know this site is very PC-centric, so I just wanted to give my input as a PS4 player who knows a little bit about software and not much about hardware. We do not have much choice in hardware, but I do play on PS4 Pro, the best we have.

Ever since Summerset launched, I have had problems with fast travel into areas where there is a stuttering frame rate that starts at about 2 fps and slowly increases for about 10 seconds until it finally happens to hit maybe 30 fps. It’s not always, and it’s not just areas in Summerset either. I am guessing that it is due to the Psijic time rewind ability, even though I do not use any of those abilities. Since that ability has to keep track of the player and all other enemies in the area (and probably other players) to do the rewind, it seems to be buffering up when entering new areas. Also, I have noticed it happen just when traveling out from Riften to the stables every single day. I am guessing that the zones are now divided into smaller sub zones that also require buffering.

The problem, from my perspective, started with Summerset. I didn’t get the dlc until later, but the launch was when I experienced these issues. PS4 needs a full optimization before Elsweyr or I expect it will get much worse.

Monsieur

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I know this site is very PC-centric, so I just wanted to give my input as a PS4 player who knows a little bit about software and not much about hardware. We do not have much choice in hardware, but I do play on PS4 Pro, the best we have.

Ever since Summerset launched, I have had problems with fast travel into areas where there is a stuttering frame rate that starts at about 2 fps and slowly increases for about 10 seconds until it finally happens to hit maybe 30 fps. It’s not always, and it’s not just areas in Summerset either. I am guessing that it is due to the Psijic time rewind ability, even though I do not use any of those abilities. Since that ability has to keep track of the player and all other enemies in the area (and probably other players) to do the rewind, it seems to be buffering up when entering new areas. Also, I have noticed it happen just when traveling out from Riften to the stables every single day. I am guessing that the zones are now divided into smaller sub zones that also require buffering.

The problem, from my perspective, started with Summerset. I didn’t get the dlc until later, but the launch was when I experienced these issues. PS4 needs a full optimization before Elsweyr or I expect it will get much worse.

This issue is posted in the PS4 bug reports section, it may be worth bumping it to get it noticed even more.

The ZOS reps will tell you to delete your ESO save game data. This does nothing but delete a lot of your settings, which you’ll need to set back otherwise the game is really annoying.

Of course, the micro-freezing is still there even after deleting the save game and it makes the game genuinely unplayable until it either resolves itself, or you’re able to /reloadui or teleport to another wayshrine - which is immensely difficult at an effective frame rate of 1FPS.

Try submitting an in-game bug report each time it happens.

idk

Much more goes into lag than an engine and many games use Hero without issue.

We know Zos has added much to the game and made other changes that has increased the calculations the server needs to make constantly. This is something we have known for awhile and Zos has even acknowledged it.

So, it is incorrect to blame the engine, regardless of what engine it is.

katanagirl1

Monsieur wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I know this site is very PC-centric, so I just wanted to give my input as a PS4 player who knows a little bit about software and not much about hardware. We do not have much choice in hardware, but I do play on PS4 Pro, the best we have.

Ever since Summerset launched, I have had problems with fast travel into areas where there is a stuttering frame rate that starts at about 2 fps and slowly increases for about 10 seconds until it finally happens to hit maybe 30 fps. It’s not always, and it’s not just areas in Summerset either. I am guessing that it is due to the Psijic time rewind ability, even though I do not use any of those abilities. Since that ability has to keep track of the player and all other enemies in the area (and probably other players) to do the rewind, it seems to be buffering up when entering new areas. Also, I have noticed it happen just when traveling out from Riften to the stables every single day. I am guessing that the zones are now divided into smaller sub zones that also require buffering.

The problem, from my perspective, started with Summerset. I didn’t get the dlc until later, but the launch was when I experienced these issues. PS4 needs a full optimization before Elsweyr or I expect it will get much worse.

This issue is posted in the PS4 bug reports section, it may be worth bumping it to get it noticed even more.

The ZOS reps will tell you to delete your ESO save game data. This does nothing but delete a lot of your settings, which you’ll need to set back otherwise the game is really annoying.

Of course, the micro-freezing is still there even after deleting the save game and it makes the game genuinely unplayable until it either resolves itself, or you’re able to /reloadui or teleport to another wayshrine - which is immensely difficult at an effective frame rate of 1FPS.

Try submitting an in-game bug report each time it happens.

Well, I am not sure there is an option on PS4 to do an in-game bug report. I am not aware of any and will have to look into it. Thanks for the advice.

This happpens so frequently I could do 10 of them per day. Also, this seems to be a universal problem, pretty much everyone on my friends list complains about it, so it’s not just an isolated case.

Peekachu99

Game seems smoother than ever? Like, I was in Cyrodiil on seven characters to do a bum rush of 25K AP before the campaign close and I didn’t dc once? (PS4 Pro)

This was at prime time even. Come to think, I haven’t had a random app crash in months. I legitimately think the Murkmire performance patch or Wrathstone fixed the memory leak, at least on console.

Keewo

Peekachu99 wrote: »

. I legitimately think the Murkmire performance patch or Wrathstone fixed the memory leak, at least on console.

100% NOT on PC..

StormeReigns

Not shocking that ESO uses two engines. Havok and Hero.

Havok is the primary game play / world engine.
Hero from what I have noticed is the quest accepts/turn in dialog, in game mini cuts (Blade of Woe for example) and Character Select Menu "Play Cinematic" game animation, and some of the class combat skills animations - Sorc, NB, and Warden (from what I can account for) have some features that are Hero Engine.

It's not that Hero engine isn't bad. It is rather good (it does have its issues, like any and all games engines do) It is far easier to blame one engine while ignoring the other one. Just many don't know how it (Hero) operates, or how to use it when they get their hands on a version. It's not just solely a Game Engine, it can create many things; from world / zone building, basic to complex combat animations and 2D-3D environmental / Character Designs, and function as a primary engine for games, or support.

These below are all what I've personally done with "Free" version of Hero Engine, while they did a promo back when SWtOR was about to launch, not great, but sure did have a blast seeing what I was able to make using it.

zyk

Oh wow. Everyone, please take what you read in this thread with like a zillion grains off salt. It's 99.999% baseless conjecture that's not really relevant in any way.

For people actually interested in game development, this isn't the place to learn about it.

katanagirl1

Peekachoo, what campaign are you running on PS4? People on Vivec are constantly getting disconnected and I see loading screens in the middle of battle on Shor. Most of the people I know who do strictly PVP have just given up completely.

My PS4 can’t tell when ESO freezes so I don’t even get a chance to give a bug report anymore. I have to manually close the app and restart.

Androconium

zyk wrote: »

Oh wow. Everyone, please take what you read in this thread with like a zillion grains off salt. It's 99.999% baseless conjecture that's not really relevant in any way.

For people actually interested in game development, this isn't the place to learn about it.

I'm not interested in game development. I'm interested in game play.

The salient point of this argument is:
If a company sells its product into every market around the globe, it should be able to deliver the same product in the same way. Otherwise, stop taking people's money and delivering a variable level of service, that is dependent on physical location.

ALL the current limitations would have been known in 2013, so there is no excuse.

Thank you for your belated, but ultimately irrelevant input.

Monsieur

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Monsieur wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I know this site is very PC-centric, so I just wanted to give my input as a PS4 player who knows a little bit about software and not much about hardware. We do not have much choice in hardware, but I do play on PS4 Pro, the best we have.

Ever since Summerset launched, I have had problems with fast travel into areas where there is a stuttering frame rate that starts at about 2 fps and slowly increases for about 10 seconds until it finally happens to hit maybe 30 fps. It’s not always, and it’s not just areas in Summerset either. I am guessing that it is due to the Psijic time rewind ability, even though I do not use any of those abilities. Since that ability has to keep track of the player and all other enemies in the area (and probably other players) to do the rewind, it seems to be buffering up when entering new areas. Also, I have noticed it happen just when traveling out from Riften to the stables every single day. I am guessing that the zones are now divided into smaller sub zones that also require buffering.

The problem, from my perspective, started with Summerset. I didn’t get the dlc until later, but the launch was when I experienced these issues. PS4 needs a full optimization before Elsweyr or I expect it will get much worse.

This issue is posted in the PS4 bug reports section, it may be worth bumping it to get it noticed even more.

The ZOS reps will tell you to delete your ESO save game data. This does nothing but delete a lot of your settings, which you’ll need to set back otherwise the game is really annoying.

Of course, the micro-freezing is still there even after deleting the save game and it makes the game genuinely unplayable until it either resolves itself, or you’re able to /reloadui or teleport to another wayshrine - which is immensely difficult at an effective frame rate of 1FPS.

Try submitting an in-game bug report each time it happens.

Well, I am not sure there is an option on PS4 to do an in-game bug report. I am not aware of any and will have to look into it. Thanks for the advice.

This happpens so frequently I could do 10 of them per day. Also, this seems to be a universal problem, pretty much everyone on my friends list complains about it, so it’s not just an isolated case.

You can type /bug in chat and it will open the bug report window. I’m only playing for about half an hour a day at most at the moment but seeing it happen at least once, it’s definitely got worse.

zyk

Androconium wrote: »

I'm not interested in game development. I'm interested in game play.

Then why are you responding to what I wrote about game development with something that's not at all relevant to what I wrote?

The salient point of this argument is:
If a company sells its product into every market around the globe, it should be able to deliver the same product in the same way. Otherwise, stop taking people's money and delivering a variable level of service, that is dependent on physical location.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.

Androconium wrote: »

Thank you for your belated, but ultimately irrelevant input.

Rightbackatcha.

Malmai

Cuz its morrowind updated engine... Morrowind was running on computers that had 1 core, and guess what eso is running same horse pie, so go figure...

Ogou

Malmai wrote: »

Cuz its morrowind updated engine... Morrowind was running on computers that had 1 core, and guess what eso is running same horse pie, so go figure...

That's just plain wrong. Only the Single Player games use Bethesda's in house engine. ZOS uses a modified version of the Hero engine.

Delparis

yeah the game has all those performance issues because Zenimax choose to use the Hero Engine.

don't expect any fix

Knootewoot

It's not the HERO engine, nor a modified version of it.

ESO (supposedly) uses it's own in-house engine, and the Hero Engine was used only to prototype the game.

Delparis

Knootewoot wrote: »

It's not the HERO engine, nor a modified version of it.

ESO (supposedly) uses it's own in-house engine, and the Hero Engine was used only to prototype the game.

that's a unicorn lol read this



if Zenimax didn't use the Hero Engine why would they put their logo in the game opening ?

and why do we see ESO in the Hero Engine website http://www.heroengine.com/he-games

Zenimax did use that crappy hero engine thing because they didn't want to spend money doing their own that's all. the engine costs about hundred dollars a year to access their server's and build the game.

Now you understand why this game is in this state

ZOS_RogerJ

Greetings! As this thread was a few months old, we've closed this thread as some information may be out of date. Feel free to create a new thread to discuss this topic.