AD has no "brawler race" for PvP

TimeDazzler

I consider a brawler to be someone who can fight on the front lines and take damage but also deal a good amount of damage. Racial stats that match that playstyle are max stamina and max health. AD is the only faction that does not have a race with both max stamina and max health, instead, there are a total of two passives in the game that give bonuses to stealth and both of them belong to AD. The passive I am referring to: "Stealthy – Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3 meters. Increases damage done while in Stealth by 10%" which belong to woodelf and khajit.

This passive promotes a sit-in stealth and gank playstyle and not a frontline brawler, really only benefiting nightblades, snipe spammers, or both. I believe this playstyle doesn't teach players proper mechanics & skill when it comes to PvP. This is the reason why AD has so many unskilled snipers who sit on keep walls or nightblades in stealth. You can ask any small man group which faction is the easiest to farm in an open field and the answer is always AD. This would not be an issue if "Any Alliance, Any Race" was part of the base game, brand new players who want to play as an assassin from other MMO's are automatically funneled into choosing AD due to the only stealth passives belonging to AD races.

I hope that the racial rebalancing gives each faction one race with the stealthy passive or remove it altogether and gives AD a race with max health and max stamina.

DC brawler race is orc: Increases Max Health and Max Stamina by 6%, Increases Healing Received by 5% and Health Recovery by 20%, Increases your melee damage by 4% & Increases sprint speed by 10% and reduces sprint cost by 12%.

EP brawler race is nord: Increases Max Stamina by 6% and Health Recovery by 20%. Increases Max Health by 9% and Cold Resistance by 2079. Increases damage reduction by 6% & Gain immunity to the chilled status effect.

AD supposed brawler race is khajit: Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Stamina Recovery by 10%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3 meters & Increases damage done while in Stealth by 10%. Increases Weapon Critical by 8%.

If AD already has access to the stealthy passive on woodelf why do khajits have it as well? It is literally useless unless you are a nightblade or stealth ganker/sniper. Remove that passive from khajits and give them max health, +/- 9% is a good value imo and then each faction will have access to a race giving max health and max stamina. If this happens AD would actually get new players who want to play on the front lines and learn mechanics and not people who want to role play as Legolas in stealth.

idk

First, khajiit used to be very popular in PvP. Heck, the bosmer would still be a good choice given their good regen which we tend to go heavy on with our PvP builds.

Regardless, Zos is looking at re-balancing the passives in 2019. Pretty sure they mean next update.

Thogard

AD is the nightblade alliance. Why brawl when you can cloak?

heavier

Thogard wrote: »

AD is the nightblade alliance. Why brawl when you can cloak?

especially since cloaking is so poorly implemented (beyond OP it's broken)

interested to hear more about racial rebalance maybe helf will be less useless in my build (penetrating stamplar endurance with some points in the bloodbar)
orc is insane and I would racechange perhaps if I could keep my good looks

Kartalin

Agree with @Cries, AD kind of gets shafted in AvA because many of our new players are the ones that chose stealthy races and naturally paired that with nightblades. Bosmer can work for stam brawlers even though they’re not optimal, but veteran AD players looking for optimal builds and looking to get back at the poor AD that have failed to be as helpful as pugs from other factions end up joining other factions.

I understand that the race choices were made to be lore friendly, however in the AvA environment AD falls behind when Any Race, Any Alliance is not readily available.

TimeDazzler

Kartalin wrote: »

veteran AD players looking for optimal builds and looking to get back at the poor AD that have failed to be as helpful as pugs from other factions end up joining other factions.

So true. All the good AD players get picked up from DC/EP guilds. I get asked constantly to come play for established groups on DC/EP. It's frustrating knowing that you could leave and have a much easier time/make more AP fighting against AD then playing for them. That appeal is why so many leave AD. Anyways, happy new years Kart, good seeing you as always.

MaxJrFTW

So? Lorewise both khajiit and bosmer are stealth oriented, and altmer are wizards.

Nothing stops you from creating an orc, nord, or imperial, and play AD.

idk

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

So? Lorewise both khajiit and bosmer are stealth oriented, and altmer are wizards.

Nothing stops you from creating an orc, nord, or imperial, and play AD.

@MaxJrFTW

How is this? Please state how anyone can create an orc, nord and especially imperial within the AD alliance.

Edit:

BTW, I am aware of the answer. No one can create an imperial character at all without owning the Imperial Edition. This is an absolute. Further, everyone is restricted to only the three races for any given alliance unless they have unlocked Any Race, Any Alliance.

Many of us that started when the game launched squired these way back then. Today they can be aquired in the crown store for 2100 and 1900 crowns respectively.

That is a total of 4k crowns. While it is a choice to not spend that money (28 USD will get you 5500 crowns right now) I do understand what is "stopping" some from doing as Max incorrectly suggests.

Minno

As someone said, stat swap. Kitty gets weapon crit, so that's extra heals along with health recovery and 10% Stam recovery. Sounds pretty brawler to me, except Regen based.

Wood elf gets 21% Stam recovery and resist to poison+disease with small percent to Max Stam.

Both let you roll heavy armor stamina, with kitties seeing better benefit since that crit chance is hard to build for on stamina heavy. Wood elf can go mostly max stats due to the Regen boost.

Obviously not as crazy as Argonian or orc or even Breton, but it takes different builds.

MaxJrFTW

idk wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

So? Lorewise both khajiit and bosmer are stealth oriented, and altmer are wizards.

Nothing stops you from creating an orc, nord, or imperial, and play AD.

@MaxJrFTW

How is this? Please state how anyone can create an orc, nord and especially imperial within the AD alliance.

Edit:

BTW, I am aware of the answer. No one can create an imperial character at all without owning the Imperial Edition. This is an absolute. Further, everyone is restricted to only the three races for any given alliance unless they have unlocked Any Race, Any Alliance.

Many of us that started when the game launched squired these way back then. Today they can be aquired in the crown store for 2100 and 1900 crowns respectively.

That is a total of 4k crowns. While it is a choice to not spend that money (28 USD will get you 5500 crowns right now) I do understand what is "stopping" some from doing as Max incorrectly suggests.

You can buy 3000 crowns for $17.49. If you don't have that money, then you have bigger worries than "AD has no brawler race for PvP".

There's also nothing stopping you from building a khajiit, bosmer, or altmer, the same way you would build an orc, nord, or imperial. Vandstyle is one of the best stamina templars i've played against and he plays a khajiit.

idk

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

So? Lorewise both khajiit and bosmer are stealth oriented, and altmer are wizards.

Nothing stops you from creating an orc, nord, or imperial, and play AD.

@MaxJrFTW

How is this? Please state how anyone can create an orc, nord and especially imperial within the AD alliance.

Edit:

BTW, I am aware of the answer. No one can create an imperial character at all without owning the Imperial Edition. This is an absolute. Further, everyone is restricted to only the three races for any given alliance unless they have unlocked Any Race, Any Alliance.

Many of us that started when the game launched squired these way back then. Today they can be aquired in the crown store for 2100 and 1900 crowns respectively.

That is a total of 4k crowns. While it is a choice to not spend that money (28 USD will get you 5500 crowns right now) I do understand what is "stopping" some from doing as Max incorrectly suggests.

You can buy 3000 crowns for $17.49. If you don't have that money, then you have bigger worries than "AD has no brawler race for PvP".

There's also nothing stopping you from building a khajiit, bosmer, or altmer, the same way you would build an orc, nord, or imperial. Vandstyle is one of the best stamina templars i've played against and he plays a khajiit.

Thank you for agreeing your previous comment is inaccurate.

It is irrelevant if someone can or cannot buy the crowns, though your math is clearly wrong. It would take 4k crowns to obtain both unlocks.

MaxJrFTW

idk wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

So? Lorewise both khajiit and bosmer are stealth oriented, and altmer are wizards.

Nothing stops you from creating an orc, nord, or imperial, and play AD.

@MaxJrFTW

How is this? Please state how anyone can create an orc, nord and especially imperial within the AD alliance.

Edit:

BTW, I am aware of the answer. No one can create an imperial character at all without owning the Imperial Edition. This is an absolute. Further, everyone is restricted to only the three races for any given alliance unless they have unlocked Any Race, Any Alliance.

Many of us that started when the game launched squired these way back then. Today they can be aquired in the crown store for 2100 and 1900 crowns respectively.

That is a total of 4k crowns. While it is a choice to not spend that money (28 USD will get you 5500 crowns right now) I do understand what is "stopping" some from doing as Max incorrectly suggests.

You can buy 3000 crowns for $17.49. If you don't have that money, then you have bigger worries than "AD has no brawler race for PvP".

There's also nothing stopping you from building a khajiit, bosmer, or altmer, the same way you would build an orc, nord, or imperial. Vandstyle is one of the best stamina templars i've played against and he plays a khajiit.

Thank you for agreeing your previous comment is inaccurate.

It is irrelevant if someone can or cannot buy the crowns, though your math is clearly wrong. It would take 4k crowns to obtain both unlocks.

Get a job, and you won't be crying on the forums over $17.49

idk

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

So? Lorewise both khajiit and bosmer are stealth oriented, and altmer are wizards.

Nothing stops you from creating an orc, nord, or imperial, and play AD.

@MaxJrFTW

How is this? Please state how anyone can create an orc, nord and especially imperial within the AD alliance.

Edit:

BTW, I am aware of the answer. No one can create an imperial character at all without owning the Imperial Edition. This is an absolute. Further, everyone is restricted to only the three races for any given alliance unless they have unlocked Any Race, Any Alliance.

Many of us that started when the game launched squired these way back then. Today they can be aquired in the crown store for 2100 and 1900 crowns respectively.

That is a total of 4k crowns. While it is a choice to not spend that money (28 USD will get you 5500 crowns right now) I do understand what is "stopping" some from doing as Max incorrectly suggests.

You can buy 3000 crowns for $17.49. If you don't have that money, then you have bigger worries than "AD has no brawler race for PvP".

There's also nothing stopping you from building a khajiit, bosmer, or altmer, the same way you would build an orc, nord, or imperial. Vandstyle is one of the best stamina templars i've played against and he plays a khajiit.

Thank you for agreeing your previous comment is inaccurate.

It is irrelevant if someone can or cannot buy the crowns, though your math is clearly wrong. It would take 4k crowns to obtain both unlocks.

Get a job, and you won't be crying on the forums over $17.49

LOL. I have had imperial and any race since the game went live. I am merely correcting the inaccuracies of your statement. Maybe get it right next time.

heavier

I paid for the game expecting there would be little in terms of artificial restriction in race.

1 alliance per account I say
any race any alliance so long as the player has a level 50 of a proper race for that alliance

I'm still mad that only orcs have a speed passive
speed is ubiquitous throughout IRL races practically.
running is probably the most diverse sport.

there could easily be an ingame cost to have a character of a race not belonging to the alliance participate.
it's not that I lack the funds to pay for these silly little microtransaction perks...it's the idea I don't want to throw money on a dumpster fire, more like.
hyperbole aside the game needs earnest improvement before I shell out cash beyond what I first paid.

heavier

idk wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

So? Lorewise both khajiit and bosmer are stealth oriented, and altmer are wizards.

Nothing stops you from creating an orc, nord, or imperial, and play AD.

@MaxJrFTW

How is this? Please state how anyone can create an orc, nord and especially imperial within the AD alliance.

Edit:

BTW, I am aware of the answer. No one can create an imperial character at all without owning the Imperial Edition. This is an absolute. Further, everyone is restricted to only the three races for any given alliance unless they have unlocked Any Race, Any Alliance.

Many of us that started when the game launched squired these way back then. Today they can be aquired in the crown store for 2100 and 1900 crowns respectively.

That is a total of 4k crowns. While it is a choice to not spend that money (28 USD will get you 5500 crowns right now) I do understand what is "stopping" some from doing as Max incorrectly suggests.

You can buy 3000 crowns for $17.49. If you don't have that money, then you have bigger worries than "AD has no brawler race for PvP".

There's also nothing stopping you from building a khajiit, bosmer, or altmer, the same way you would build an orc, nord, or imperial. Vandstyle is one of the best stamina templars i've played against and he plays a khajiit.

Thank you for agreeing your previous comment is inaccurate.

It is irrelevant if someone can or cannot buy the crowns, though your math is clearly wrong. It would take 4k crowns to obtain both unlocks.

Get a job, and you won't be crying on the forums over $17.49

LOL. I have had imperial and any race since the game went live. I am merely correcting the inaccuracies of your statement. Maybe get it right next time.

very wise, very wise
still 17 bucks is a high price to pay for the reversal of an absolute segregation
wouldn't the dark elves have internal factions divided between AD and EP? loyalists vs zealots

orcs as mercenaries may be unpopular among AD but there certainly could be individuals who have proven their merit and sworn fealty?

Priyasekarssk

Cries wrote: »

I consider a brawler to be someone who can fight on the front lines and take damage but also deal a good amount of damage. Racial stats that match that playstyle are max stamina and max health. AD is the only faction that does not have a race with both max stamina and max health, instead, there are a total of two passives in the game that give bonuses to stealth and both of them belong to AD. The passive I am referring to: "Stealthy – Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3 meters. Increases damage done while in Stealth by 10%" which belong to woodelf and khajit.

This passive promotes a sit-in stealth and gank playstyle and not a frontline brawler, really only benefiting nightblades, snipe spammers, or both. I believe this playstyle doesn't teach players proper mechanics & skill when it comes to PvP. This is the reason why AD has so many unskilled snipers who sit on keep walls or nightblades in stealth. You can ask any small man group which faction is the easiest to farm in an open field and the answer is always AD. This would not be an issue if "Any Alliance, Any Race" was part of the base game, brand new players who want to play as an assassin from other MMO's are automatically funneled into choosing AD due to the only stealth passives belonging to AD races.

I hope that the racial rebalancing gives each faction one race with the stealthy passive or remove it altogether and gives AD a race with max health and max stamina.

DC brawler race is orc: Increases Max Health and Max Stamina by 6%, Increases Healing Received by 5% and Health Recovery by 20%, Increases your melee damage by 4% & Increases sprint speed by 10% and reduces sprint cost by 12%.

EP brawler race is nord: Increases Max Stamina by 6% and Health Recovery by 20%. Increases Max Health by 9% and Cold Resistance by 2079. Increases damage reduction by 6% & Gain immunity to the chilled status effect.

AD supposed brawler race is khajit: Increases your Health Recovery by 20% and Stamina Recovery by 10%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3 meters & Increases damage done while in Stealth by 10%. Increases Weapon Critical by 8%.

If AD already has access to the stealthy passive on woodelf why do khajits have it as well? It is literally useless unless you are a nightblade or stealth ganker/sniper. Remove that passive from khajits and give them max health, +/- 9% is a good value imo and then each faction will have access to a race giving max health and max stamina. If this happens AD would actually get new players who want to play on the front lines and learn mechanics and not people who want to role play as Legolas in stealth.

"R" ZOS only intention is for AD to lose in all campaigns to appease xenophobes. Thats why they made DK shamelessly OP. I would shameless for all xenophobes in EP. No use to put anything in forums. The is well known many AD players. High magic sorcs have hard counters and only class nerfed from all time. Thats why many top AD players left the game. Argonian race is unkillable . I would say wings is stupidest game balance skill combined with fossilize 2 best skills on same class with argonian god damn op.
Make 15+ argonian dks with 2 healers. Spamn fossilize and dawnbreaker. Nothing will kill you.

Wait and see they will nerf all AD races and classes will be nerfed to the ground in name of balancing. Only NPCs will be in all campaign except vivec. Vivec will also be empty next year.

My sincere advise to all new players , never ever create an AD character. Stop making or playing AD character, AD never going to win any campaign in future. Not even 1. It will be no 3 in all campaigns by huge margin. In the name of balancing game it will be nerfed even further.

TimeDazzler

Kind reminder to keep the posts friendly, please I don't want this thread getting closed.

Minno wrote: »

As someone said, stat swap. Kitty gets weapon crit, so that's extra heals along with health recovery and 10% Stam recovery. Sounds pretty brawler to me, except Regen based.

If that was the case then why do Orc's get melee damage, ...to help with heals? When they already get healing received. The only valid counter-argument is that bosmers and khajits lore involves stealth. Honestly, I think it would be cool if more races had what argonians have after drinking potions. For example, imagine if the final khajit passive was 9% max health and when you drink a potion you get 8% weapon crit for X seconds.

Priyasekarssk

Cries wrote: »

Kind reminder to keep the posts friendly, please I don't want this thread getting closed.

Minno wrote: »

As someone said, stat swap. Kitty gets weapon crit, so that's extra heals along with health recovery and 10% Stam recovery. Sounds pretty brawler to me, except Regen based.

If that was the case then why do Orc's get melee damage, ...to help with heals? When they already get healing received. The only valid counter-argument is that bosmers and khajits lore involves stealth. Honestly, I think it would be cool if more races had what argonians have after drinking potions. For example, imagine if the final khajit passive was 9% max health and when you drink a potion you get 8% weapon crit for X seconds.

Dude just quit playing AD . AD will be always in third place in campaigns. I definitely place bet with 100 percent confidence. ZOs combat balance team all belong to EP & DC. They will 100 percent make sure AD lose all campaigns even though balance is downright stupid.

Dont waste your time. Just quit BG if you dont have a good warden or DK in your team. 99 percent you will lose.

Aliyavana

Any race any alliance should be free

Priyasekarssk

Aliyavana wrote: »

Any race any alliance should be free

Of course . A very big yes. But the "R"s wont allow it. In the name of race balance, AD will be nerfed to ground. Only pugs will be there in AD already is. These noobs with *** op DKs with 35k resistance with 3.5k weapon damage unkillable simply take over the map as they please .

heavier

Aliyavana wrote: »

Any race any alliance should be free

it should cost like 3$
everyone who has withheld purchasing because of it costing more than base game would buy it

AverageJo3Gam3r

Just trade gold for the gifted any race any alliance. Seriously, with gifting the “it costs money” arguments kinda fall apart. You’ll even get 100k gold for free this month through daily rewards.

pzschrek

Most people starting out aren’t going to pay crowns. While even semi serious pvpers who want to AD will definitely any race/any alliance, it sets the tone for sure. Lots of people miss the point.

I mostly play on EP anymore solo. I got tired of being mad and decided to stop trying so hard and just farm the yellow sh!tters instead like everyone else.

Savos_Saren

I’ve seen some pretty damn tanky stamblades who buy into the heavy armor meta. I wouldn’t mind if there were a few more AD brawlers out there.

It’s pretty damn frustrating to try to fight a mob of EP or DC while there’s half a dozen cloaked AD sitting in the middle of a field. Drives me batshit.

yodased

Buy any race with gold as well as imperial upgrade. Should be about 850 - 1m gold.

Also race passives are not that critical and can be worked around with gear, mundus and cp.

Your brawler is going to need a magic dump to blockcast while turtling, bosmer can make great tanks and reduced fall damage saves lives

DocFrost72

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Any race any alliance should be free

"R"s wont allow it

Morbidly curious, what is an "R" as you put it?

pzschrek

I feel compelled to point out based on continuing comments that miss the point.

Cries has any race any alliance, fyi. His main is an orc stamwarden on AD. He’s pretty damn good at brawling. If you play in sotha or in bgs it’s probably more likely that you’ve potatoed into one of his DBs than it is that you haven’t.

He’s saying that new folks wanting to play a certain way are hard-funneled into AD and that AD has too many of those as a result and not enough brawlers. Which is self evident enough that it’s really hard to disagree with in my opinion.

DocFrost72

pzschrek wrote: »

I feel compelled to point out based on continuing comments that miss the point.

Cries has any race any alliance, fyi. His main is an orc stamwarden on AD. He’s pretty damn good at brawling. If you play in sotha or in bgs it’s probably more likely that you’ve potatoed into one of his DBs than it is that you haven’t.

He’s saying that new folks wanting to play a certain way are hard-funneled into AD and that AD has too many of those as a result and not enough brawlers. Which is self evident enough that it’s really hard to disagree with in my opinion.

The idea holds up until you ask yourself why "new players" are looking to meta setups.

Minno

Cries wrote: »

Kind reminder to keep the posts friendly, please I don't want this thread getting closed.

Minno wrote: »

As someone said, stat swap. Kitty gets weapon crit, so that's extra heals along with health recovery and 10% Stam recovery. Sounds pretty brawler to me, except Regen based.

If that was the case then why do Orc's get melee damage, ...to help with heals? When they already get healing received. The only valid counter-argument is that bosmers and khajits lore involves stealth. Honestly, I think it would be cool if more races had what argonians have after drinking potions. For example, imagine if the final khajit passive was 9% max health and when you drink a potion you get 8% weapon crit for X seconds.

Keep in mind, that orc passive used to only boost gap closer damage but got changed to melee DMG.

Not saying AD races shouldn't get other stats, but just saying if you "stat swap" it's less hurtful for players that didn't pick "optimal" races when they started the game.

SilverPaws

That is true that ad lacks brawler races.
Khajiit's are worst pvp race, they can excel on nb's only, but either way they perform bad on other classes.

mursie

AD seems to represent well on Sotha Sil.