Sotha Sil [EU] Please stop using faulty tactics propagated by the lead guilds

Aedrion

Howdy

I can't but notice that on Sotha Sil EU on the Pact side, a lot of people seem to be listening to a few select guilds and their officers on how to attack and defend in Cyrodiil. I would applaud your eagerness to cooperate for the benefit of our alliance if the tactics promoted weren't so bad.

Multiple times now, I have had group leaders instruct their team to defend a keep that isn't under attack. Staying there as some sort of Player Garrison. Given how much those players are needed elsewhere, like fighting for a keep we're trying to capture or participating a fight we're trying to win, it's painful to have them sitting around doing nothing in Kings. That's just one example of a strategy that sounds good but is horrible and similar to bunkerbuilds in RTS-games. Sure, you'll hold out on your home terrain but your opponent controls the map.

I also notice that a lot of what these guilds do is breaking bridges and gates to 'defend' against a potential attack. But this is done even when there is no attack, meaning that sure, they can't reach us but we're stuck too. Sometimes, several groups of Pact players are even locked off from the rest of the alliance, so they can't get reinforcements. It destroys all hopes of capturing anything if we wall ourselves in.

A third one - there's more - that sticks out is taking a huge amount of players, often over thirty to swarm something like a resource or an empty keep. I get it, you want AP but please, ten players is more than enough to capture a resource and taking massive hosts of players to defend Kings's Lumber mill is drawing those players away from fights where we need them!

So for the love of Sithis, don't listen to these overly defensive plans. When you see the fight is 30 vs 10, leave. Find another fight, one where you're needed. When you're told to stay put and do nothing, do something! Attack a resource or go towards an enemy keep and fight them there. When you're a massive group and you notice that you're wasting all that manpower on meaningless things that five people can do. Leave that group. Your leaders are incompetent and failing to put their groups to proper use.

The best way to defend against an oncoming attack is to attack them right back. The best way to defend Chalman is to capture Bleakers. The best way to defend Kings is to make their nearest spawnpoint be three keeps away. When these big guilds and their many spin-off guilds hoard all the players to accomplish next to nothing, it's noticeable. Sometimes, other alliances simply push us over and take whatever they want because 50% of pact is chasing one guy in tower or have gone to defend a lumbermill from smallscale players.
o
And please... please use siege equipment when you're attacking something. A ballista. A ram. The head of the group leader. Anything, not arrows.


Ever so grateful
Deet-Mar, Professional Zergling

Thraben

Since THEY probably won´t answer you, I will do

First off, maybe you should consider leading a group yourself if you fundamentally disagree with things like strategy.

1) Guarding an empty keep is actually a correct approach. We Blues wonder, though, if this is a kind of punishment or a thankless task for guild recruits NO ONE would do it on the DC side.

2) Destroying Gates is indeed not the most intelligent idea. It channels the Blues directly to KC.

3) Swarming: Red groups are generally of lower quality than blue or yell groups, and this has always been that way. The most obvious way to compensate is to swarm everything. A more elegant way would be to increase the groups´ quality, but this requires a greater level of commitment.

4) Defense: The reds play defensively during the Primetime because it minimizes losses. They still suffer horrible losses every night, but it could be far worse with a more offensive approach.
Forcing someone to attack a prepared defensive position is a perfectly viable strategy, particularly when you would suffer HUGE losses while attacking.

5) Smaller groups: Though your idea is right, I hardly doubt you will find the right classes for small medium scale on pact side. The pact has a structural problem with too many StamDKs, while you need something like:

3 StamWardens
1 StamSorc
1 MagSorc
1 MagTemplar

for the things you suggested. While I personally don´t use (or even like) premade groups, it would be a good start to increase the general quality of pact groups.

Vapirko

What you’re not taking into account is that what you just described is the majority mentality in PvP right now. Ball up, tank up, take no chances, swarm for AP. Though not on EU I do agree with you, but the general trend seems to be away from actual PvP.

Jaxaxo

I think sometimes those 30 ppl are really needed for those resources. God, there could be few smallscallers there xd

INinjaNinja

Jaxaxo wrote: »

I think sometimes those 30 ppl are really needed for those resources. God, there could be few smallscallers there xd

I do enjoy it when DE DI and karadashians come to valiantly defend the resource against 4 of us......

HankTwo

Biggest problem is that the big zerg leaders don't split their groups according to the tasks at hand. When I see an EP resource taken for a long time, I often go and check it out. Then, when I kill the guards and proceed to cap it (still alone), the moment it gets marked on the map as being taken a huge EP Zerg arrives 9 times out of 10 to 'help' me take it. Why didn't they just take it before? What are they even doing when there is no keep or resource marked as under attack on the map?

Moonsorrow

Jaxaxo wrote: »

I think sometimes those 30 ppl are really needed for those resources. God, there could be few smallscallers there xd

Heh well, ep kinda NEEDS those 30 to take that resource back.. if there comes like 10 or under, they soon type on /zone the: "2-3 AD or DC at Arrius Mine, need help!!" so often they i guess just to save time come in full force immediately so enough Earthgores, tank dks and healers.

Personally it depends on mood if see smallscalers, most often even if playing solo/small groups i tend to "play the map" and help DC on points and stuff, but fun fights always comes first so every now and then when see Triggered and so on i`m in for some fun, but always knowing the fact that it might take like 5-10 minutes of tower circle running to get it clear and you guys outta there, there is a camp and you are back in 1 minute haha. So depends if in mood for such tower games and nothing else more important right then.

If see your crew around, always checking first if a support/healer at background and hitting that one, if just couple nbs, then its just aoe snares, time stops and whatnot just because i know those triggers reactions like getting bagged if i`m caught under pressure lol.

But i`m a fan of your crew and your playstyle, so don`t make tea on me please. i`m cute and innocent.

Aedrion

HankTwo wrote: »

Biggest problem is that the big zerg leaders don't split their groups according to the tasks at hand. When I see an EP resource taken for a long time, I often go and check it out. Then, when I kill the guards and proceed to cap it (still alone), the moment it gets marked on the map as being taken a huge EP Zerg arrives 9 times out of 10 to 'help' me take it. Why didn't they just take it before? What are they even doing when there is no keep or resource marked as under attack on the map?

They were afraid of fighting the Triggered Tryhards or Bamboozle Squad or any smallscalers really. Regular zerglings don't know that without a dedicated team that works together, you're not going to kill those guys. So instead they either avoid fighting them or zerg them down.

INinjaNinja wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

I think sometimes those 30 ppl are really needed for those resources. God, there could be few smallscallers there xd

I do enjoy it when DE DI and karadashians come to valiantly defend the resource against 4 of us......

Now now! First, it's Kiradashians. Secondly, we mostly run a 6-8- man group. Not a zerg. ;-)
Lastly, that is the fate of everybody eventually the longer you stay alive without relocating and people failing to murder you.

First you fight 4v6 and you win
Then you fight 4v10 and you slowly kill them one by one
Then you fight 4v15 and you stay alive
If you stay alive long enough, you'll be there to see a 25 man zerg run you down.

Thank for you recognising our valour though. It takes courage to face those cheesy meta builds.
But in all seriousness, I do enjoy fighting you guys. Only way to learn is to get bested and improve.

PS: Which guild is referred to as DI?

Leeched

Aedrion wrote: »

Howd

The best way to defend against an oncoming attack is to attack them right back. The best way to defend Chalman is to capture Bleakers. The best way to defend Kings is to make their nearest spawnpoint be three keeps away. When these big guilds and their many spin-off guilds hoard all the players to accomplish next to nothing, it's noticeable. Sometimes, other alliances simply push us over and take whatever they want because 50% of pact is chasing one guy in tower or have gone to defend a lumbermill from smallscale players.
o
And please... please use siege equipment when you're attacking something. A ballista. A ram. The head of the group leader. Anything, not arrows.

This is what happens when EP attacks something:

During that fight at Ales when WHOLE EP zerged it down, I even had a 500 ping and 10 fps during the worst minutes of it