ESO vs others MMO RPG

MaxJrFTW

killmove wrote: »

WOW

1. Gameplay = 5
2. Performance = 7
3. Graphics = 4
4. Sound track = 5
5. Lore = 7
6. PvP = 6
7. PvE = 8
8. Class number and uniqueness = 7
9. Economic model = 4
10. Active players = 7

Total Score = 60

Let me bite because i have nothing better to do.

Performance...How is it a 7? WoW runs flawlessly. The game has no fps issues, no delays, no lag, no bugs, no server issues. And when you miraculously run into any issues, they fix them within hours.

Graphics a 4, while FF is a 7? You can't seriously have a look at the last few WoW expansions and tell me graphics don't look better than FF. if you're judging the old zones that have been around for 14 years, sure, but since MoP WoW made a massive jump forward in terms of graphics.

Sound track 5, while ESO 8. In what world? Judging by the last two, you're both blind and deaf.

PvE in WoW cannot be an 8 because the only decent PvE WoW offers is raiding. Questing sucks, dungeons suck, LFR LOL, open world sucks, older content is 100% irrelevant. Mythic raiding is a 10, the dungeons maybe a 6, the rest is a 0, and overall it shouldn't be more than 4 or 5.

Don't know what u mean by active players, but WoW has far and wide the largest playerbase of any mmo. Twitch, youtube, traffic on mmo champion, and the WoW website, make this pretty clear.

Sylvermynx

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

killmove wrote: »

WOW

1. Gameplay = 5
2. Performance = 7
3. Graphics = 4
4. Sound track = 5
5. Lore = 7
6. PvP = 6
7. PvE = 8
8. Class number and uniqueness = 7
9. Economic model = 4
10. Active players = 7

Total Score = 60

Let me bite because i have nothing better to do.

Performance...How is it a 7? WoW runs flawlessly. The game has no fps issues, no delays, no lag, no bugs, no server issues. And when you miraculously run into any issues, they fix them within hours.

Graphics a 4, while FF is a 7? You can't seriously have a look at the last few WoW expansions and tell me graphics don't look better than FF. if you're judging the old zones that have been around for 14 years, sure, but since MoP WoW made a massive jump forward in terms of graphics.

Sound track 5, while ESO 8. In what world? Judging by the last two, you're both blind and deaf.

PvE in WoW cannot be an 8 because the only decent PvE WoW offers is raiding. Questing sucks, dungeons suck, LFR LOL, open world sucks, older content is 100% irrelevant. Mythic raiding is a 10, the dungeons maybe a 6, the rest is a 0, and overall it shouldn't be more than 4 or 5.

Don't know what u mean by active players, but WoW has far and wide the largest playerbase of any mmo. Twitch, youtube, traffic on mmo champion, and the WoW website, make this pretty clear.

Yeah.... but I don't want to play WoW any more. Haven't since 2013.... won't ever again. *shrug*

Delsanab14_ESO

FakeFox wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

Your ratings don't even factor in the massive amount of content WoW has?

My information might be outdated as I stopped playing WoW when Mists of Pandaria released. Back then all content in WoW except the newest expansion was pointless because it was outdated and out-leveled. So unless they massively reworked old content, added dynamic scaling, etc. I would argue that ESO has considerably more relevant content.

I mean the original faction quests and such haven't been updated for 4 years so... there's really not a lot of content beyond that.

MaxJrFTW

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Yeah.... but I don't want to play WoW any more. Haven't since 2013.... won't ever again. *shrug*

I haven't played WoW in over a year. Probably won't play it again neither. Doesn't mean WoW is the awful this guy makes it out to be. I especially had a problem with his performance rating. In 10 years of WoW i never had a performance issue outside of an expansion launch, most of those were pretty chaotic, but there's nothing that can be done when millions of people are trying to connect at the same time.

Sylvermynx

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Yeah.... but I don't want to play WoW any more. Haven't since 2013.... won't ever again. *shrug*

I haven't played WoW in over a year. Probably won't play it again neither. Doesn't mean WoW is the awful this guy makes it out to be. I especially had a problem with his performance rating. In 10 years of WoW i never had a performance issue outside of an expansion launch, most of those were pretty chaotic, but there's nothing that can be done when millions of people are trying to connect at the same time.

Well.... his/her ratings are.... suspect because s/he hasn't provided any real data for them - it's all totally personally subjective.

I could provide totally personally subjective ratings for WoW and RIFT and ESO. But that's all they'd be - totally personally subjective. There's no real "measuring stick" for games.

rumple9

ESO has a lot of faults, mostly quality of life stuff (that could easily be fixed) and performance issues but it is hands down the best mmo on the market.

Anyone who disagrees wouldn't still be playing or on these forums

Delsanab14_ESO

rumple9 wrote: »

ESO has a lot of faults, mostly quality of life stuff (that could easily be fixed) and performance issues but it is hands down the best mmo on the market.

Anyone who disagrees wouldn't still be playing or on these forums

Or people are just bored and don't have a lot of other outlets or their social friends still play it.

Thoragaal

killmove wrote: »

I've played many RPG like WOW, FFXIV, ESO, GW2 and BDO, so i come up with a score to compare them.

The score is based on a notation from 0 to 10 (best) and takes into account many aspects of each mmo which are categorized as follow:

1. Gameplay
2. Performance
3. Graphics
4. Sound track
5. Lore
6. PvP
7. PvE
8. Class number and uniqueness
9. Economic model (Sub vs B2P vs F2P)
10. Active players

so here each :

WOW

1. Gameplay = 5
2. Performance = 7
3. Graphics = 4
4. Sound track = 5
5. Lore = 7
6. PvP = 6
7. PvE = 8
8. Class number and uniqueness = 7
9. Economic model = 4
10. Active players = 7

Total Score = 60

FFXIV

1. Gameplay = 6
2. Performance = 9
3. Graphics = 7
4. Sound track = 7
5. Lore = 7
6. PvP = 4
7. PvE = 9
8. Class number and uniqueness = 9
9. Economic model = 4
10. Active players = 8

Total Score = 70


ESO

1. Gameplay = 8
2. Performance = 4
3. Graphics = 8
4. Sound track = 8
5. Lore = 8
6. PvP = 7
7. PvE = 7
8. Class number and uniqueness = 5
9. Economic model = 6
10. Active players = 7

Total Score = 68

GW2

1. Gameplay = 7
2. Performance = 5
3. Graphics = 6
4. Sound track = 6
5. Lore = 6
6. PvP = 6
7. PvE = 6
8. Class number and uniqueness = 7
9. Economic model = 7
10. Active players = 6

Total Score = 62

BDO

1. Gameplay = 9
2. Performance = 4
3. Graphics = 9
4. Sound track = 6
5. Lore = 4
6. PvP = 7
7. PvE = 4
8. Class number and uniqueness = 7
9. Economic model = 4
10. Active players = 5

Total Score = 59

Those are my personal scores, other may note it differently.

So for ESO we see that it got what it needs to be the best mmo in the market if performance were not bad and if we had more diversity in classes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please take a look on this this may help you better focus on the most important improvements on ESO.

Thank you in advance

Personally I don't care about the Lore or Sound Track in mmo's. Graphics means something, but a 10 in gameplay > 10 in graphics any day of the week. Sure, Lore and Sound Track is nice the first time you're playing a game but does nothing for me at end game, and the importance of it can't even compare to a single player AAA game (I'm thinking for example Mass Effect).

To have an enjoyable time with the gameplay the performance needs to be there, so performance > gameplay > graphics.
It becomes highly subjective which point has a higher value to someone, and thus the total score means very little to someone else.

BoneShatterer

killmove wrote: »

I've played many RPG like WOW, FFXIV, ESO, GW2 and BDO, so i come up with a score to compare them.

The score is based on a notation from 0 to 10 (best) and takes into account many aspects of each mmo which are categorized as follow:

1. Gameplay
2. Performance
3. Graphics
4. Sound track
5. Lore
6. PvP
7. PvE
8. Class number and uniqueness
9. Economic model (Sub vs B2P vs F2P)
10. Active players

so here each :

WOW

1. Gameplay = 5
2. Performance = 7
3. Graphics = 4
4. Sound track = 5
5. Lore = 7
6. PvP = 6
7. PvE = 8
8. Class number and uniqueness = 7
9. Economic model = 4
10. Active players = 7

Total Score = 60

FFXIV

1. Gameplay = 6
2. Performance = 9
3. Graphics = 7
4. Sound track = 7
5. Lore = 7
6. PvP = 4
7. PvE = 9
8. Class number and uniqueness = 9
9. Economic model = 4
10. Active players = 8

Total Score = 70


ESO

1. Gameplay = 8
2. Performance = 4
3. Graphics = 8
4. Sound track = 8
5. Lore = 8
6. PvP = 7
7. PvE = 7
8. Class number and uniqueness = 5
9. Economic model = 6
10. Active players = 7

Total Score = 68

GW2

1. Gameplay = 7
2. Performance = 5
3. Graphics = 6
4. Sound track = 6
5. Lore = 6
6. PvP = 6
7. PvE = 6
8. Class number and uniqueness = 7
9. Economic model = 7
10. Active players = 6

Total Score = 62

BDO

1. Gameplay = 9
2. Performance = 4
3. Graphics = 9
4. Sound track = 6
5. Lore = 4
6. PvP = 7
7. PvE = 4
8. Class number and uniqueness = 7
9. Economic model = 4
10. Active players = 5

Total Score = 59

Those are my personal scores, other may note it differently.

So for ESO we see that it got what it needs to be the best mmo in the market if performance were not bad and if we had more diversity in classes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please take a look on this this may help you better focus on the most important improvements on ESO.

Thank you in advance

WOW

1. Gameplay = 6
2. Performance = 9
3. Graphics = 6 the graphic engine is not a power soaker and ame in 32 bit wich is more than enough to run a decent game
4. Sound track = 5
5. Lore = 5
6. PvP = 4
7. PvE = 4
8. Class number and uniqueness = 7
9. Economic model = 0 cash shop and bots
10. Active players = 5 still loads of players

Total Score = 51

FFXIV

1. Gameplay = 7
2. Performance = 9
3. Graphics = 9
4. Sound track = 9
5. Lore = 8
6. PvP = 5
7. PvE = 9
8. Class number and uniqueness = 9 because having all the classes available on 1 char is nice
9. Economic model = 8 because they still have bots issues and dont force players in the cash shop
10. Active players = 8

Total Score = 81

ESO

1. Gameplay = 8
2. Performance = 4 i'd say 3 because they still have glitches that can be exploited and some palces tends to have massive fps drops and 64 bit engine for a game that was designed for a 32 bit engine....
3. Graphics = 8
4. Sound track = 6 its meh if not for the skyrim theme
5. Lore = 8
6. PvP = 3 too much lag
7. PvE = 7
8. Class number and uniqueness = 4
9. Economic model = 0 cash shop obligation
10. Active players = 7 still have bot issues and elitists

Total Score = 58

GW2

1. Gameplay = 5
2. Performance = 9 its a 32 bit engine so its all good for the game
3. Graphics = 5
4. Sound track = 6
5. Lore = 6
6. PvP = 6
7. PvE = 4 but i havent played so long in the game
8. Class number and uniqueness = 7
9. Economic model = 0 cash shop
10. Active players = 6

Total Score = 54

you also forgot one who still is VERY active

EVERQUEST

1. Gameplay = 7
2. Performance = 9 the requirements to play this game are very low and if private server you can box the game until your pc lags, biggest boxer has 72-80 clients running for himself
3. Graphics = 4 its dated so....
4. Sound track = 8
5. Lore = 10 theres 20 years of content to plow through before you are done
6. PvP = 3 eq always was about pve
7. PvE = 9 elitism in EQ does not exist
8. Class number and uniqueness = 10 you cant beat the gamewho made all the other mmos possible
9. Economic model = 0 cash shop
10. Active players = 5 no bots

Total Score = 65

Classes
TANK , melee dps = Warrior, Paladin, Shadow Knight.
melee dps =Beastlord, Berserker, Monk, Ranger, Rogue.
caster dps= Magician, Necromancer, Wizard.
CC = Bard, Enchanter.
heals and buffs Cleric, Druid, Shaman( comes with loads of debuffs as well).

Race
Barbarian = nords
Dark Elf = dumber
Drakkin = dragons descendant not in eso
Dwarf = not in eso
Erudite = not in eso
Froglok = mmm frogs....
Gnome = they created a plane of existence where machines rules themselves
Half Elf = not in eso
Halfling = we all love a hobbit from time to time
High Elf = altmer
Human = breton
Iksar = where argonian came from
Ogre = not in eso
Troll = not in eso
Vah Shir = where khajit were born
Wood Elf = bosmer

aaisoaho

It would be easier to understand if your ratings would have a clear reasoning.
Like:
0 = do not exist
1 = not coherent, a mess
2 = somewhat coherent, but many things do not make sense
3 = coherent, some little flaws here and there
4 = flawless, but do not amaze
5 = flawless, ingenious solutions that work together

BoneShatterer

aaisoaho wrote: »

It would be easier to understand if your ratings would have a clear reasoning.
Like:
0 = do not exist
1 = not coherent, a mess
2 = somewhat coherent, but many things do not make sense
3 = coherent, some little flaws here and there
4 = flawless, but do not amaze
5 = flawless, ingenious solutions that work together

0 does not exists //cash shop

ATomiX96

bias
/ˈbʌɪəs/

Bias is disproportionate weight in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

mague

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

For combat controls I would like to see the ability to have everything on one action bar and not have to try to deal with laggy and buggy bar swapping but is still better the point and click style of FFXIV.

Not true with gamepad. There is no point and click in FFX. The move and look with the two sticks is exactly the same as in ESO. But the crossbars beat the ESO bar swapping. I think there is also WASD support for the western world users.

The landscapes of FFX are better then in ESO. Some details like the visible breath in cold areas or mounts with footprints are better in FFX. But the rendering of ESO is better. FFX ground plants tend to flicker with any anti aliasing.

Both games have their ups and downs. But they are not the same fruit and it is not really possible to compare them.

codestripper

Now, realistically speaking... This is the true rating this game should have:
ESO
Gameplay = 8
Performance = 0
Graphics = 0
Sound track = 8
Lore = 6
PvP = 7
PvE = 5
Class number and uniqueness = 3
Economic model = 0
Active players = 9

Total Score = Jenny

Riverlynn

killmove wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno please take a look on this this may help you better focus on the most important improvements on ESO.

Best bit of the whole post.

I'm sure everyone at ZOS are really thankful that you have played more than one MMO and are therefore in a unique position to note down your comparison scores for them.

templesus

codestripper wrote: »

Now, realistically speaking... This is the true rating this game should have:
ESO
Gameplay = 8
Performance = 0
Graphics = 0
Sound track = 8
Lore = 6
PvP = 7
PvE = 5
Class number and uniqueness = 3
Economic model = 0
Active players = 9

Total Score = Jenny

LOL @ PvP a 7. Seriously, have you people ever played a game with actual PvP not this laggy zergfest crap?

BoneShatterer

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »
For combat controls I would like to see the ability to have everything on one action bar and not have to try to deal with laggy and buggy bar swapping but is still better the point and click style of FFXIV.


sry to break your bubble, i played ff14 for quite a while and click and attack nah... not for combat tab and attack ok because it also helps alot for cc and taunt compared to esos insta death on raid bosses if you you lose a monster and it you cant taunt it back.

also in case you point out npc interraction while they are surrounded by waves of players..... theres an option called click through players so.... the name states what happens.
so plz stop saying eso is the best mmo ever made its not. its a great game but it snot the greatest mmo ever made.this title belongs to EQ. FF11 comes 2nd because it was the first mmorpg to run on a console.

mague wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

For combat controls I would like to see the ability to have everything on one action bar and not have to try to deal with laggy and buggy bar swapping but is still better the point and click style of FFXIV.

Not true with gamepad. There is no point and click in FFX. The move and look with the two sticks is exactly the same as in ESO. But the crossbars beat the ESO bar swapping. I think there is also WASD support for the western world users.

The landscapes of FFX are better then in ESO. Some details like the visible breath in cold areas or mounts with footprints are better in FFX. But the rendering of ESO is better. FFX ground plants tend to flicker with any anti aliasing.

Both games have their ups and downs. But they are not the same fruit and it is not really possible to compare them.

sadly too true both games have their pros and cons. and happyly they are not from the same company it would be a sad day if ff14 was turned into a cashgrab where oly cash shop is working properly

dazee

In what way is the economic model of ESO superior to WoW and FFXIV? pay to play allows for a more steady development cycle more content and less bugs.

killmove

So from what I've read ESO bottleneck is because of performance issue.
The question is how many are willing to go into a subscription mode if ESO has WOW or FFXIV performance?

Vasoka

You missed SWTOR. It's decent atm.

killmove

Vasoka wrote: »

You missed SWTOR. It's decent atm.

didn't play SWTOR because it had a reputation of bad performance because of it Engine.

codestripper

templesus wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

Now, realistically speaking... This is the true rating this game should have:
ESO
Gameplay = 8
Performance = 0
Graphics = 0
Sound track = 8
Lore = 6
PvP = 7
PvE = 5
Class number and uniqueness = 3
Economic model = 0
Active players = 9

Total Score = Jenny

LOL @ PvP a 7. Seriously, have you people ever played a game with actual PvP not this laggy zergfest crap?

You must either not have gotten the reference, or are too young. Either way, thanks for your valuable input.

Malacthulhu

Elder Scrolls Online

Gameplay = 3

Performance = 2

Graphics = irrelevant, not a defining feature of mmos.

Sound track = 0, never listen to them once again irrelevant

Lore = 0, everything is from previous tes titles nothing was really introduced lore wise on that level or higher, they never added to it. Also the immersion breaking elements in the negate most lore.

PvP = 1, if I have to explain this then play the game

PvE = 4, it's ok. Most player do not reach end game content and content up until then is basically just an easy mode grind fest only getting worse and being labeled as a progression system.

Class number and uniqueness =1, unique yes, because they change it every other month and break core skills while homoginizing major/minor buffs so everyone has equal inclusion in trials etc regardless of class.

Economic model = 3 good for them, *** for fans.

Active players = 2

This is my review of it as a mmo in general not compared to other mmos as I still have a standard. I would never recommend this game to anyone, as a rule of thumb I do not recommend mmos in general unless they are exceptional. If I compared aspects of this game to other mmos etc the ratings would have been lower except in places of graphics etc.

Stratloc

Malacthulhu wrote: »

Elder Scrolls Online

Gameplay = 3

Performance = 2

Graphics = irrelevant, not a defining feature of mmos.

Sound track = 0, never listen to them once again irrelevant

Lore = 0, everything is from previous tes titles nothing was really introduced lore wise on that level or higher, they never added to it. Also the immersion breaking elements in the negate most lore.

PvP = 1, if I have to explain this then play the game

PvE = 4, it's ok. Most player do not reach end game content and content up until then is basically just an easy mode grind fest only getting worse and being labeled as a progression system.

Class number and uniqueness =1, unique yes, because they change it every other month and break core skills while homoginizing major/minor buffs so everyone has equal inclusion in trials etc regardless of class.

Economic model = 3 good for them, *** for fans.

Active players = 2

This is my review of it as a mmo in general not compared to other mmos as I still have a standard. I would never recommend this game to anyone, as a rule of thumb I do not recommend mmos in general unless they are exceptional. If I compared aspects of this game to other mmos etc the ratings would have been lower except in places of graphics etc.

Why are you on these forums? Honest question. If I play a game I generally don't like it would never occur to me to browse their forum.

Putinof

Stratloc wrote: »

Why are you on these forums? Honest question. If I play a game I generally don't like it would never occur to me to browse their forum.

OR maybe his dissapointed with a game he has spent hundreds/thousand hours on, and wants to see if anythings going to improve anytime soon, and what others think about it. im on the same boat, and i agree. ESO is 4/10 overall, and i just cant make myself play the game anymore.

killmove

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

but if u compare it with eso then ofc its lower since eso feels more realistic but then again wow has a damn long draw distance while in eso every1 gets myopia from 50+meters
… yes I rly loved in wow that I can go to a new zone and for example Sholazar Basin...I could see literally from 1 side to the other and there was no fog to screw my eyes...same for wildlife it wasn't ofc 100% but still it was farther than in eso...

yeah I miss that from WOW, don't know why ESO has this kind of awfull draw distance. ESO looks like BDO on it worst aspects

Tandor

Putinof wrote: »

Stratloc wrote: »

Why are you on these forums? Honest question. If I play a game I generally don't like it would never occur to me to browse their forum.

OR maybe his dissapointed with a game he has spent hundreds/thousand hours on, and wants to see if anythings going to improve anytime soon, and what others think about it. im on the same boat, and i agree. ESO is 4/10 overall, and i just cant make myself play the game anymore.

Except that if he's spent hundreds/thousands hours on the game, then either he doesn't really rate it as lowly as he has done, or he has knowingly been wasting hundreds/thousands hours on a game he truly dislikes. Either way, he's wasting his time even more on the forum.

BoneShatterer

Stratloc wrote: »

Malacthulhu wrote: »

Elder Scrolls Online

Gameplay = 3

Performance = 2

Graphics = irrelevant, not a defining feature of mmos.

Sound track = 0, never listen to them once again irrelevant

Lore = 0, everything is from previous tes titles nothing was really introduced lore wise on that level or higher, they never added to it. Also the immersion breaking elements in the negate most lore.

PvP = 1, if I have to explain this then play the game

PvE = 4, it's ok. Most player do not reach end game content and content up until then is basically just an easy mode grind fest only getting worse and being labeled as a progression system.

Class number and uniqueness =1, unique yes, because they change it every other month and break core skills while homoginizing major/minor buffs so everyone has equal inclusion in trials etc regardless of class.

Economic model = 3 good for them, *** for fans.

Active players = 2

This is my review of it as a mmo in general not compared to other mmos as I still have a standard. I would never recommend this game to anyone, as a rule of thumb I do not recommend mmos in general unless they are exceptional. If I compared aspects of this game to other mmos etc the ratings would have been lower except in places of graphics etc.

Why are you on these forums? Honest question. If I play a game I generally don't like it would never occur to me to browse their forum.

malacthulhu's got a point.

lore wise eso is after all a huge mashed up potato mix of each and every TES titles ever made. theres not a really good way to describe the game. and half the content is misp[laced or wrong in the timeline. everything in the game based in sewers are built using cyrodiils sewers system from TES 4 oblivion

we play skyrim with other people.
bethesda//zenimax does break the game mechanic every months.
the music and graphics dont make up 90% of the game its the content of a game and its too easyly plowed through with spare time. the average DLC or expansion take less than a week to go through that includes raids. all the other mmos have DLC//expansion that can take MONTHS to go through best examples are wow and FF14.

wow came out in 2004 next expansion was 3 years later then one each years
FF14 came out in 2010 next xpac was in 2015 then stormblood xpac cameout 2 years after.
ESO came out in 2014 then IC in 2015 and theres been a dlc every months since orsinium came out... the content is not long enough.
end game is only available if you can pop 35k dps


eso has a great future but sadly to see that future the owners of the game must stop using its membership base as a bank account from wich they can pluck money away and focus on what they have in front of them, loads of stuff to fix and get the game functionnal. in the sua money > everything else but the issue is that to make moeny you have to deliver something and sadly eso isnt stepping up to this. i cant wait to see a dlc//expansionthat will take me MONTHS to complete in no life mode aka breaking my leg at work and spedning time in ESO working my ass off to complete that dlc but iknow its not going to happen.

Sevn

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

ESO has a lot of faults, mostly quality of life stuff (that could easily be fixed) and performance issues but it is hands down the best mmo on the market.

Anyone who disagrees wouldn't still be playing or on these forums

Or people are just bored and don't have a lot of other outlets or their social friends still play it.

I could not imagine being so bored and having nothing else to do in my life but hang out in a gaming forum for a videogame I no longer play or even like.

Stratloc

Putinof wrote: »

Stratloc wrote: »

Why are you on these forums? Honest question. If I play a game I generally don't like it would never occur to me to browse their forum.

OR maybe his dissapointed with a game he has spent hundreds/thousand hours on, and wants to see if anythings going to improve anytime soon, and what others think about it. im on the same boat, and i agree. ESO is 4/10 overall, and i just cant make myself play the game anymore.

What do you mean "OR"? I didn't supply an alternative answer. But sure, you could be right. Personally though, I can't relate to that.