End of campaign reward changing to per account?

daemonios

starkerealm wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

That’ll really encourage PvP participation.

They foolishly think it would stop faction hopping, but in reality it would just encourage people to join whatever faction they could grind the most AP with. It would drop the PvP population by 30-40% since people would go to Cryodiil only for the 2-3 days it'd take to get their end of campaign rewards and then be gone.

Honestly? That’s the idea behind it? It takes one decent session to get to level 3. Then you can faction hop your ass off to grind AP.

You only need to get to level 1, changing it to level 3 would be an far better idea.

Or you know, faction lock for a campaign. But apparently no one can handle that.

Because that worked so well the first time. To be fair, that might have been a little before your time.

Here's what happened. Dominion took a campaign, Pact took a campaign, and Covenant took a campaign. If you were smart, you'd lock your characters in the dominant campaigns. If you weren't smart, you'd come onto the boards crying about how the other two alliances were working together, in spite of the fact that one of them held no territory and consisted entirely of gankers.

It wasn't immediate, but people simply started gravitating towards the servers that favored their faction the most.

Except those campaigns would quickly become full and you either couldn't play in Cyro or had to choose a different one. Meanwhile, campaign hopping destroys any attempt at making mass PvP truly competitive (that requires rules and fair play). It and other changes (e.g. Cadwell's Silver and Gold, One Tamriel) have all but destroyed any kind of feeling of allegiance players might have for a faction, which also doesn't help improve the large-scale PvP scene. It would have had its drawbacks, but I think if a character had been forced to play its own faction exclusively it would have been better. WoW never compromised on this - at most you can entirely switch factions for a hefty sum of money (and need to change class as well, if I'm not mistaken).

Haquor

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

I've seen it posted in 4 discords now that the transmute crystals for the end of campaign rewards is changing to one reward per account (changing from per character) for a campaign. Can anyone confirm this or is it a rumor?

The people that would get screwed over by ZOS for this are not the people who you should be concerned about 'hopping' factions.

These people change characters when they get to tier 1 regardless of how well or poorly the faction they are hopping to is doing. Its not strategic.

If the incentive to play different characters wasnt there you would likely just lose players in cyrodil. GG.

pod88kk

@GinaLBruno could you let us know please?

starkerealm

Bam_Bam wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

That’ll really encourage PvP participation.

They foolishly think it would stop faction hopping, but in reality it would just encourage people to join whatever faction they could grind the most AP with. It would drop the PvP population by 30-40% since people would go to Cryodiil only for the 2-3 days it'd take to get their end of campaign rewards and then be gone.

Honestly? That’s the idea behind it? It takes one decent session to get to level 3. Then you can faction hop your ass off to grind AP.

You only need to get to level 1, changing it to level 3 would be an far better idea.

Or you know, faction lock for a campaign. But apparently no one can handle that.

Because that worked so well the first time. To be fair, that might have been a little before your time.

Here's what happened. Dominion took a campaign, Pact took a campaign, and Covenant took a campaign. If you were smart, you'd lock your characters in the dominant campaigns. If you weren't smart, you'd come onto the boards crying about how the other two alliances were working together, in spite of the fact that one of them held no territory and consisted entirely of gankers.

It wasn't immediate, but people simply started gravitating towards the servers that favored their faction the most.

If you incentivise representing a single particular alliance for a campaign, there is absolutely no reason faction-locking can't be successful.

Just because the first time it was done, it was excuted poorly, doesn't mean that a new fresh approach couldn't work.

Again, the game did incentivize representing a particular alliance for a campaign. The community simply, over time, worked out which campaigns "belonged" to which alliance and PvP died. The problem wasn't the systems, it was players.

Additionally, faction locking mandated that you needed three 30 day vet campaigns, because you could potentially have characters in all three alliances, and if you only had one 30 day vet, you'd have characters who were functionally locked out of PvP based on their alliance.

These two issues interlock together. You need endgame PvP open for everyone on all of their eligible characters. If you faction lock PvP, then you need to give them the option to go into endgame PvP, so that means either giving them the option to switch a character's alliance (which might not be possible on the back end), or you need to have multiple campaigns, which will lead to campaign polarization, and a return to the buff servers.

starkerealm

daemonios wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

That’ll really encourage PvP participation.

They foolishly think it would stop faction hopping, but in reality it would just encourage people to join whatever faction they could grind the most AP with. It would drop the PvP population by 30-40% since people would go to Cryodiil only for the 2-3 days it'd take to get their end of campaign rewards and then be gone.

Honestly? That’s the idea behind it? It takes one decent session to get to level 3. Then you can faction hop your ass off to grind AP.

You only need to get to level 1, changing it to level 3 would be an far better idea.

Or you know, faction lock for a campaign. But apparently no one can handle that.

Because that worked so well the first time. To be fair, that might have been a little before your time.

Here's what happened. Dominion took a campaign, Pact took a campaign, and Covenant took a campaign. If you were smart, you'd lock your characters in the dominant campaigns. If you weren't smart, you'd come onto the boards crying about how the other two alliances were working together, in spite of the fact that one of them held no territory and consisted entirely of gankers.

It wasn't immediate, but people simply started gravitating towards the servers that favored their faction the most.

Except those campaigns would quickly become full and you either couldn't play in Cyro or had to choose a different one. Meanwhile, campaign hopping destroys any attempt at making mass PvP truly competitive (that requires rules and fair play). It and other changes (e.g. Cadwell's Silver and Gold, One Tamriel) have all but destroyed any kind of feeling of allegiance players might have for a faction, which also doesn't help improve the large-scale PvP scene. It would have had its drawbacks, but I think if a character had been forced to play its own faction exclusively it would have been better. WoW never compromised on this - at most you can entirely switch factions for a hefty sum of money (and need to change class as well, if I'm not mistaken).

Again, this isn't what happened. Pledging to a campaign doesn't chew up a quota (and if it did, you'd need way more campaigns which would all be uniformly dead), only actually entering the campaign mattered. The game is only interested in the actual player headcount in a campaign. Unfortunately, what happened was, you'd look at your campaign, realize there was no one to kill in there, then not join, and just soak up the bonuses from your alliance being in the lead.

I understand how you wish it would work, and the solutions you're offering are valid in a vacuum, but the problem is you're trying to regulate the behavior of people. When you create a system, people will look for ways to subvert it for the most efficient benefit.

Haquor

zaria wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

If it is true, it has nothing to do with faction hopping. ZOS did a scan to see how many 50 geodes people had saved up, and decided it was too many. So they decided to nerf the drop rate.

Yes, however it would make more sense to increase the requirement from level 1 up to 2 or 3.
Probably easier to do than to limit to account to as its just score at end of campaign.

Says this is an stupid rumor put out.

I feel that that would just do one of two things;
1) Cause people to hop factions for longer and have a larger impact on the campaign
2) stop a lot of people spending time in cyrodil

disintegr8

Anything like this would only speed up the death of PVP by giving PVE focused players less reason to go there. The die hard PVP'ers would still be there but you always need new players coming in to replace those who leave the game.

Anyone who spends any time in Cyrodiil would still get more transmute crystals than they could use, even if they only played on one character. Most PVP'ers have an inbox full of Rewards of the Worthy (RotW) which they get about every 20k AP - considering the top 100 players in each Vivec alliance are on 2 million+ AP, that's a lot of rewards containing a lot of crystals.

It may be that ZOS are concerned about the drop off in people farming for the perfect trait gear, so I can imagine they might look for ways to reduce the number of transmute crystals you can get. I'd be looking to revamp the above RotW system, either to lessen the likelihood of crystals or reduce the number or rewards you get beyond a certain amount of AP.

25k AP is not much to get in order to receive 50 crystals (30 day campaign), so maybe they'll increase the required amount. Maybe limit it to one per account per campaign, that will allow (or push) people to enter the campaigns they might not otherwise go into. Another alternative could be to raise how many crystals you need to transmute gear, along with a corresponding rise in how many you can hold.

I suspect this is more a rumour being pushed by people who think they have trouble getting enough crystals (the have nots) in the hope of punishing those who are getting them (the haves).

karekiz

I guess they could to make transmute crystals worth more <Remember day 1 when people said it would take years to transmute gear, and now people destroy them?> I suppose. I don't think it will help PvP, but possible hurt PvPers one nice reward.

For the whole faction hopping thing.

I think the person means one campaign with faction locked ruleset. Other campaigns would still have faction swapping.

Example:
30 CP
30 No CP
30 Faction locked <CP enabled>
etc

I remember hearing rumors about ZoS going to "Punish" the players for FG1 TP during the event. I laughed and said I guess they are gonna ban 80% of the game population then.

starkerealm

karekiz wrote: »

I remember hearing rumors about ZoS going to "Punish" the players for FG1 TP during the event. I laughed and said I guess they are gonna ban 80% of the game population then.

Well, it's been a blast, guys, but I guess I'm going to be punished for porting into a half completed instance... :P

Honestly, rumors like this just mean, "I heard from someone who knows, that they're going to do this thing." Only, the person they heard it from was like, "y'know what'd be a good idea?"

starkerealm

disintegr8 wrote: »

Anything like this would only speed up the death of PVP by giving PVE focused players less reason to go there. The die hard PVP'ers would still be there but you always need new players coming in to replace those who leave the game.

Ironically, it was the opposite, originally. When the campaigns were faction locked, there'd usually be a small cadre of die hard PvPers in there representing their faction, but the vast majority would be PvEers, who were out there killing wolves or hunting down Dolmens for achievements and goodies.

zaria

Haquor wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

If it is true, it has nothing to do with faction hopping. ZOS did a scan to see how many 50 geodes people had saved up, and decided it was too many. So they decided to nerf the drop rate.

Yes, however it would make more sense to increase the requirement from level 1 up to 2 or 3.
Probably easier to do than to limit to account to as its just score at end of campaign.

Says this is an stupid rumor put out.

I feel that that would just do one of two things;
1) Cause people to hop factions for longer and have a larger impact on the campaign
2) stop a lot of people spending time in cyrodil

You are probably right, however increasing the requirements for the 50 stone geodes would be an way better solution than account binding them.

GCVDJ11T

@ZOS_BrianWheeler are you able to confirm/deny?

Tasear

Hmm maybe this was a leak like Morrowind?

GCVDJ11T

Could be.... @Tasear

Beardimus

Vapirko wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

That’ll really encourage PvP participation.

They foolishly think it would stop faction hopping, but in reality it would just encourage people to join whatever faction they could grind the most AP with. It would drop the PvP population by 30-40% since people would go to Cryodiil only for the 2-3 days it'd take to get their end of campaign rewards and then be gone.

Honestly? That’s the idea behind it? It takes one decent session to get to level 3. Then you can faction hop your ass off to grind AP.

You only need to get to level 1, changing it to level 3 would be an far better idea.

Or you know, faction lock for a campaign. But apparently no one can handle that.

I would seriously lose faith if they remove crystals per toon in a bid to prevent fraction hopping. Seriously?

Just lock the campaigns. Done. This will not stop the scroll running ap boosting nefarious behaviour we see which is the real reason we want hopping to stop.

At least lock Sotha & Shor as majority of dark deeds happen there. Bring back faction loyalty!

+ This change will decrease pop over all as at least now many pve players come to hit 25k AP on a Few toons and many i know have enjoyed it and stayed.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler you mentioned looking at faction hopping earlier in the year, do you have any update on this / if the crystal change is a step to this or even happening?

The Uninvited

Beardimus wrote: »

I would seriously lose faith if they remove crystals per toon in a bid to prevent fraction hopping. Seriously?

Me too. All my characters are the same faction, so what I do is play like 2 or 3 different characters in a campaign.

Not faction hopping, but still punished if they do this. So in that case I will just play one character for 30 days.