When are you going to stop punishing ESO+ subscribers, ZOS?

Capsaica · December 2018

I agree with the OP on some points here. I also feel that ESO Plus subscribers are effectively getting punished in the dungeon finder when doing random dungeons. The random dungeon finder (normal or vet) provides good rewards - the XP seems to be the primary reason I see people using the random dungeon finder. There is no doubt that the DLC dungeons take longer and are more difficult than the non-DLC dungeons. Sure, the normal versions of DLC dungeons are relatively easy and don't generally give most players real problems - they are still harder and longer than the non-DLC dungeons. When you look at veteran dungeons, the DLC dungeons can completely destroy a PUG. They take way more knowledge and capability and benefit greatly from voice comms which are not available on the PC platform.

If you do not have access to the DLCs (non-ESO Plus), then you have a shortened menu of options for the random dungeon finder and have a faster, easier path to getting that XP boost, those Undaunted achievements, and whatever else you're looking to get out of the LFG random dungeon. Sure, you may not get to do the more exciting content, but that's not generally what people are trying to get out of the random dungeon finder.

I disagree about the dungeons themselves. I find the DLC dungeons fun, challenging and some of them have really incredible design, stories and interesting mechanics. I like the fact that we can't just ignore mechanics and dps burn through everything (except for a few crazy overachieving dps monsters

).

What I would suggest is to have a check-box in the random dungeon finder where you can turn off DLC dungeons as options while queuing. Maybe only for veteran versions - since you can still burn through even the longest DLC dungeon on normal pretty quickly. Basically, please stop stacking the roulette table against your subscribers! We like the content and find it valuable - we just want the option to not have to mess with it when we don't want it.

Androconium · December 2018

Then randomly pick a dungeon yourself

perogwin_ESO · December 2018

I have to agree with the OP. I have 2 accounts - 1 is ESO+ the other is a Free one where I just bought the few DLC I wanted. I much prefer doing Randoms on the Free one because I don't have to worry about the DLC ones being in the mix. It saves the constant 15 min reque time when I quit a team if I get a dungeon I don't want. The ONLY reason I have a paid one is for the Crafting Bag (I craft on that account and mail it to the other one) and I like the double size furniture slots for my houses. I spend way more in crowns then the subscription gives me ( I have to buy a 5500 pack every other month at minimum to get the stuff I want) so that isn't really a bonus to me.

What I would like them to do is give ESO+ people an Option System to toggle DLC (or even just individual dungeons, which would benefit the player who ONLY like the DLC dungeons as well) on and off. That way if I want to do a random I can have the DLC ones I dont like off and not have to worry about ending up in one, but if I want to do a preformed one with my guild I can toggle that one on so I have access to the one I need for that moment. This way EVERYONE would win. ESO+ is suppose to be beneficial to the players who have it, so let it benefit different play styles.

The whole "just choose a dungeon instead of random" thing, well that is all fine and good but that one time a day Major Purple XP bonus (and subsequent regular blue bonus) are only received via the random que and is useful when leveling a new alt or working on your CP level. So "Just pick one" isn't really a valid argument in many cases. NOW if they gave you the XP bonuses via the dungeon finder whether it was random or chosen directly (1st one a day per character purple and any after that blue just like random que with the same 20 hour refresh), then that would solve most of this issue and remove the need for the above mentioned toggle system. You would have to enter through the dungeon finder and not the front door, but most people tend to do that anyways

maboleth · December 2018

DLC dungeons are up to the most interesting ones and that is being said by a PVPer.
I dislike most elitist/ez PVE guys with a passion. They say they are into PVE and dungeons, yet they try to find every single exploit ("random" fg1) / easy route / speed run possible. Why do they even play?

If you could just give them two keys without even entering the dungeons, they would be somewhat satisfied.

redspecter23 · December 2018

lagrue wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I don't think I follow. What's the dlc dungeons got to do with punishing eso plus members?

Non subs can queue random dungeons without having the possibility of any DLC in the dungeon pool. This leads to higher success rates and faster runs, especially on veteran mode. Plenty of pugs still struggle on normal DLC dungeons, which can lead to frustration. Even if the group was full of 4 elite players, the non DLC dungeons will nearly always be faster, leading to greater xp/minute. Having the ability to pay ZOS less money (cancel subscription) for an easier dungeon queue could be perceived as punishing subscribers.

That's not exactly a punishment though is it? It's an advertised feature of Plus that you will have access to all DLC... including the dailies.

I probably wouldn't use the word punishment myself, however it is definitely a mathematical disadvantage. Over time, you will have longer runs with a greater chance of failure compared to players that don't have access to the DLC. You can call it whatever word you want, but it is seen as a negative aspect of ESO+ to many players, myself included.

redspecter23 · December 2018

Shawn_PT wrote: »

Some players want Plus to give access to DLC dungeons. Some don't. Having choices wouldn't be that bad a thing I think.

I think you've highlighted a key issue here. At least for myself, I'm paying ESO+ for 3 DLC's a year, 2 of which I'd actually rather not have at all. I would personally have a greater game experience if I were somehow able to not have access to the dungeon DLC's at all, but I still want ESO+ so that I can access the craft bag and double storage. I'm sure not everyone agrees, but there are probably others that would.

If giving away DLC access is actually something that some players actively don't want, that's a design flaw. There shouldn't be a situation (even an edge case like this) that would cause someone to not want something that is freely given to them.

lagrue · December 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I don't think I follow. What's the dlc dungeons got to do with punishing eso plus members?

Non subs can queue random dungeons without having the possibility of any DLC in the dungeon pool. This leads to higher success rates and faster runs, especially on veteran mode. Plenty of pugs still struggle on normal DLC dungeons, which can lead to frustration. Even if the group was full of 4 elite players, the non DLC dungeons will nearly always be faster, leading to greater xp/minute. Having the ability to pay ZOS less money (cancel subscription) for an easier dungeon queue could be perceived as punishing subscribers.

That's not exactly a punishment though is it? It's an advertised feature of Plus that you will have access to all DLC... including the dailies.

I probably wouldn't use the word punishment myself, however it is definitely a mathematical disadvantage. Over time, you will have longer runs with a greater chance of failure compared to players that don't have access to the DLC. You can call it whatever word you want, but it is seen as a negative aspect of ESO+ to many players, myself included.

I wouldn't know mate, I've never failed a dungeon in my life. Public player as well... I run dungeons religiously, it's the only content in the game I really enjoy, but none of them are hard unless you're very low level. Even DLC ones are very easy.

If you ask me the DLC ones should be level locked anyway - not even just in the random playlist... so I'd propose the best solution is actually to level locked DLC Dungeons both in the playlist and for selection, this way undergeared and weak players will not end up in them.
.

ccfeeling · December 2018

In PVE , there are not much diversity , all my chars run the meta build to meet the best efficiency .

It means that all non meta sets are pretty useless or just a process before we get the best one ...

All I see the famous youtuber or call himself theory crafter , they have no difference at all , still run the same sets , same CLASS , same race , eat and drink the same ... I found something difference , CP

3 years , I'm getting bored with it , no sub anymore , that's the only thing I can do to express my feeling directly .

ZOS could do anything and ignore player voices , such as release another Nerfmire , it's up to you guys .

redspecter23 · December 2018

lagrue wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I don't think I follow. What's the dlc dungeons got to do with punishing eso plus members?

Non subs can queue random dungeons without having the possibility of any DLC in the dungeon pool. This leads to higher success rates and faster runs, especially on veteran mode. Plenty of pugs still struggle on normal DLC dungeons, which can lead to frustration. Even if the group was full of 4 elite players, the non DLC dungeons will nearly always be faster, leading to greater xp/minute. Having the ability to pay ZOS less money (cancel subscription) for an easier dungeon queue could be perceived as punishing subscribers.

That's not exactly a punishment though is it? It's an advertised feature of Plus that you will have access to all DLC... including the dailies.

I probably wouldn't use the word punishment myself, however it is definitely a mathematical disadvantage. Over time, you will have longer runs with a greater chance of failure compared to players that don't have access to the DLC. You can call it whatever word you want, but it is seen as a negative aspect of ESO+ to many players, myself included.

I wouldn't know mate, I've never failed a dungeon in my life. Public player as well... I run dungeons religiously, it's the only content in the game I really enjoy, but none of them are hard unless you're very low level. Even DLC ones are very easy.

Like I mentioned, it's not about whether you can or can't beat the dungeons. Scalecaller Peak, even on normal, even when blitzed by 4 elite players is just going to be a longer dungeon than the same group doing Crypt of Hearts 2. The average length of dlc dungeons is longer than non DLC. In the best case situation, the non DLC will still be faster almost every time. I suppose maybe, just maybe, CoA 2 could be longer than some of the shortest DLC dungeons, but it would be close. So even in the best case scenario, there is still a disadvantage when running randoms with DLC access. Yes you will complete, but it will be slower. I can level from 1 to 50 off of mudcrabs only if I want, but it is slower than other methods. A bit of an extreme example I suppose, but you should never be paying for slower access to anything.

I'd actually be fine with the situation if all dungeons were of similar length and difficulty, but they are not. DLC's are designed to be longer and have more mechanics, even on normal and I'm thinking that it may be a mistake to have such a variety of content included in the same pool for random.

lagrue · December 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I don't think I follow. What's the dlc dungeons got to do with punishing eso plus members?

Non subs can queue random dungeons without having the possibility of any DLC in the dungeon pool. This leads to higher success rates and faster runs, especially on veteran mode. Plenty of pugs still struggle on normal DLC dungeons, which can lead to frustration. Even if the group was full of 4 elite players, the non DLC dungeons will nearly always be faster, leading to greater xp/minute. Having the ability to pay ZOS less money (cancel subscription) for an easier dungeon queue could be perceived as punishing subscribers.

That's not exactly a punishment though is it? It's an advertised feature of Plus that you will have access to all DLC... including the dailies.

I probably wouldn't use the word punishment myself, however it is definitely a mathematical disadvantage. Over time, you will have longer runs with a greater chance of failure compared to players that don't have access to the DLC. You can call it whatever word you want, but it is seen as a negative aspect of ESO+ to many players, myself included.

I wouldn't know mate, I've never failed a dungeon in my life. Public player as well... I run dungeons religiously, it's the only content in the game I really enjoy, but none of them are hard unless you're very low level. Even DLC ones are very easy.

Like I mentioned, it's not about whether you can or can't beat the dungeons. Scalecaller Peak, even on normal, even when blitzed by 4 elite players is just going to be a longer dungeon than the same group doing Crypt of Hearts 2.

There are vanilla dungeons that take way longer, like City of Ash II. Even on Normal and the fact it has basically no mechanics its easily longer than Scalecaller is.... or Tempest Island, which is a long slog... The difference in dungeon times is prevelant in Vanilla as well... Fungal Grotto I is a 5 minute dungeon... the others I mentioned can easily take 20+ even for an experienced team just due to travelling between rooms.

Most DLC dungeons I can see finished in 15-20 min which is a pretty okay time. There are far more dungeons this length than there are shorter ones. Both in Vanilla and DLC.