When are you going to stop punishing ESO+ subscribers, ZOS?

Rexalf

I hate all the DLC dungeons with a passion! They all suck, reallly lousy dungeon design with convoluted mechanics, bosses that can't be taunted and one shot kills even on a tank. I don't want them when choosing random veteran.

YamiKuruku

well you still can do random normals, they give the same reward/XP and you don't get one shot
if you can't handle dlc dungeons better don't go random vet

Diabolus1989

The monthly crowns more than cover the subscription cost. The craft bag is legendary.

Everything else given is just gravy as far as I'm concerned.

Rexalf

YamiKuruku wrote: »

well you still can do random normals, they give the same reward/XP and you don't get one shot
if you can't handle dlc dungeons better don't go random vet

What? If you don't have DLC you don't have to do it. Why should players that PAY every month have to do something that those don't pay don't have to?

Latios

Just ask your group to port to fungal grotto 1 or something. Worst case scenario, wait 15 minutes and queue again.

Veteran DLC dungeons aren’t meant to be casual. They are endgame. But I wouldn’t complain about a “non-dlc” toggle in randoms.

Rexalf

Latios wrote: »

Just ask your group to port to fungal grotto 1 or something. Worst case scenario, wait 15 minutes and queue again.

Veteran DLC dungeons aren’t meant to be casual. They are endgame. But I wouldn’t complain about a “non-dlc” toggle in randoms.

It's good idea, except the others might not be there for a random. I have gotten CoS twice today, it's the orc's pledge, they don't want to do another one. If they took away the 15 minute penalty it wouldn't matter much.

FrancisCrawford

Protossyder wrote: »

Can I have your stuff?

No, because it's bound.

Bakkagami

Rexalf wrote: »

I hate all the DLC dungeons with a passion! They all suck, reallly lousy dungeon design with convoluted mechanics, bosses that can't be taunted and one shot kills even on a tank. I don't want them when choosing random veteran.

I'm the opposite, can't be bothered to do non-dlc dungeons because they're all brain-dead level easy, and mechanics are generally uninteresting. Even some of the dlc dungeons I used to enjoy (CoS especially) got toned down in difficulty to the point that they put me to sleep unfortunately so I don't even do most of those anymore. If ZoS took advantage of their combat systems pretty free range of movement and flexibility to make more interesting mechanics the pve would be exponentially better.

More pertinent to your post: The entire point of the random dungeon mechanics in mmos is to give incentives to encourage people to do dungeons/content they wouldn't normally choose to do. If u could pick just the ones you want to do that would defeat the purpose.

AcadianPaladin

I'm ESO+ but avoid DLC dungeons. The game needs to provide content for all and there is plenty of content I simply avoid (including DLC dungeons). My solution is to totally avoid the random feature of the dungeon finder. Unknown players (Pug) and no comm is enough uncertains for me. Not going to add unknown dungeon to the mix as well - especially a DLC one.

AlnilamE

Rexalf wrote: »

Latios wrote: »

Just ask your group to port to fungal grotto 1 or something. Worst case scenario, wait 15 minutes and queue again.

Veteran DLC dungeons aren’t meant to be casual. They are endgame. But I wouldn’t complain about a “non-dlc” toggle in randoms.

It's good idea, except the others might not be there for a random. I have gotten CoS twice today, it's the orc's pledge, they don't want to do another one. If they took away the 15 minute penalty it wouldn't matter much.

Have you considered asking the group to kick you so you can requeue?

StormChaser3000

Cancel your ESO+ subscription.

I'm still on a protest due to the removed free crates. Cheap Mara dress couldn't lure me back. It's so nice and relaxing when I queue for random dungeons now.

redspecter23

Do random normal if you just want the xp. Do specific veteran dungeons if you want the pledges.

However, it is only a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. Non subs have an easier queue than subs due to the lack of DLC in their pool of dungeons. ZOS should address this in some way. Either add DLC dungeons to everyone when you hit random (even if you don't have the DLC) or allow a toggle so those that own the DLC can turn it off. Having two tiers of dungeon pools with the easier tier given to non subs feels like very poor design.

I unsubbed for the undaunted event and ran 15 random normals every day. I loved it. After the event, I resubbed and haven't queued since. I hate pug DLC dungeons that much.

Rexalf

AlnilamE wrote: »

Rexalf wrote: »

Latios wrote: »

Just ask your group to port to fungal grotto 1 or something. Worst case scenario, wait 15 minutes and queue again.

Veteran DLC dungeons aren’t meant to be casual. They are endgame. But I wouldn’t complain about a “non-dlc” toggle in randoms.

It's good idea, except the others might not be there for a random. I have gotten CoS twice today, it's the orc's pledge, they don't want to do another one. If they took away the 15 minute penalty it wouldn't matter much.

Have you considered asking the group to kick you so you can requeue?

Recently I queued for a non-DLC dungeon to farm, can't remember which one now and when I get there the others had already teleported to FG1 I think it was, they probably queued for a random. They asked me if I wanted to join, I said no, they kicked me. So far so good, I queued again immediately and when I get there it's the same group that kicked me! And this isn't the only time that has happened so kicking is not the answer.I ended up waiting more then 15 minutes to be sure I wasn't going there again. I waited 15 minutes today after getting CoS and leaving, then it was the same group again! This happens over and over again.

Tandor

It's hardly punishing subscribers, and I'm grateful that all playstyles are covered with the game's updates, but one dungeon DLC per year would be enough I feel - unless a couple of delves were to be included, for example. They would sell a lot more copies then.

Silver_Strider

Maybe, just maybe you can accept that you got a DLC dungeon with a PUG and roll with it. I don't dislike most DLC dungeons (exception being Bloodroot) so I've just accepted whenever I get a DLC dungeon and go with it.

Is it frustrating getting screwed over by whatever PUG buster boss that DLC has? Absolutely but if I wanted easy, I'd solo Fungal Grotto or something. I can't keep running the same base game dungeons over and over anymore; it's become boring AF and really more mindnumbing than dying repeatedly to the same DLC boss over and over again.

O_LYKOS

I don't think I follow. What's the dlc dungeons got to do with punishing eso plus members?

MissBizz

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I don't think I follow. What's the dlc dungeons got to do with punishing eso plus members?

@O_LYKOS Because people who have not spent extra money on the game (via subscribing or DLC's) can use the random dungeon finder and NOT end up in a long difficult vet DLC dungeon that a pug is unlikely to complete - or at least - unlikely to complete in a reasonable amount of time.

lagrue

I love the DLC dungeons. What punishment are you talking about?

Who is actively being punished? Is ZOS setting out to penalize us for buying +?

Your entire thread is hyperbole.

VaranisArano

Unlike you, ZOS does not consider having the opportunity to run ALL of the dungeons you own through ESO+ to be a bad thing.

Furthermore, one of the purposes of the Daily Random is to incentivize people to run random dungeons, aka fill in the roles for groups that queued for specific dungeons. Without this, hard dungeons like the DLCs or vetCOA 2 would have a much longer wait time.

So your request is unlikely to be fulfilled.

redspecter23

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I don't think I follow. What's the dlc dungeons got to do with punishing eso plus members?

Non subs can queue random dungeons without having the possibility of any DLC in the dungeon pool. This leads to higher success rates and faster runs, especially on veteran mode. Plenty of pugs still struggle on normal DLC dungeons, which can lead to frustration. Even if the group was full of 4 elite players, the non DLC dungeons will nearly always be faster, leading to greater xp/minute. Having the ability to pay ZOS less money (cancel subscription) for an easier dungeon queue could be perceived as punishing subscribers.

Krayl

This is where I remind everyone that the random daily gives a reward for a reason. Don't want the reward, don't do the random. Simple! If you want it easy, do normal, same reward. Mmkay? If you want to do a random and make it easier, request a pre-made group in zone chat to do a random and ensure you're communicating and willing to do difficult dungeons if you draw one, or find someone to join who isn't subscribed.

Here's an idea though - learn the mechanics and explain them to your group. Blaming it on "lousy design" or "convoluted mechanics" because you haven't bothered to actually learn them is a joke. Some of us don't subscribe to ESO+ so we can face-roll some amateur hour dungeon. We actually like learning to do the mechanics the right way and improving.

wolf486

Yeah it's the one thing I hate about ESO+. Once I hit level 50 I just stop doing randoms and will only do select dungeons for the daily pledges.

lagrue

redspecter23 wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I don't think I follow. What's the dlc dungeons got to do with punishing eso plus members?

Non subs can queue random dungeons without having the possibility of any DLC in the dungeon pool. This leads to higher success rates and faster runs, especially on veteran mode. Plenty of pugs still struggle on normal DLC dungeons, which can lead to frustration. Even if the group was full of 4 elite players, the non DLC dungeons will nearly always be faster, leading to greater xp/minute. Having the ability to pay ZOS less money (cancel subscription) for an easier dungeon queue could be perceived as punishing subscribers.

That's not exactly a punishment though is it? It's an advertised feature of Plus that you will have access to all DLC... including the dailies.

Odovacar

Oh dear lord OP...

EvilAutoTech

If you worry about completion when you pug vet, don't pug vet. Easy as fishin'.

xaraan

I like the new dungeons, but I do think it's funny how they essentially have designed all the DLC dungeons to nearly require voice communications to do them most effectively, especially if you don't already know them, yet voice comms isn't a built in part of their game (on pc).

But I understand OP. I'm not going to sit here like half the posters and talk about how this or that isn't a problem if you do this or that. It sucks pugging the new dungeons, I normally do them with friends and will usually only pug the other pledges.

Draxys

Kind of a whiny post, but I actually agree that dungeon design isn’t as good as it used to be. When the original content of the game was released, whoever developed (or dictated development) the dungeons and zones after wrothgar seems to have cut a lot of corners. Reusing mechanics, zones that don’t feel nearly as detailed/alive, etc.

Recremen

Diabolus1989 wrote: »

The monthly crowns more than cover the subscription cost. The craft bag is legendary.

Everything else given is just gravy as far as I'm concerned.

So on the one hand I disagree with OP about the dungeons, since they're actually quite brilliantly designed and are perfect for people looking to do more challenging group content on veteran mode, yet are still approachable and completable for the average gamer on normal mode.

But I also disagree with your assessment that ESO Plus already gives "enough", since it was originally (and in some places still is) advertised as giving access to four DLC zones per year. Then we got several quarters without one, then we got only dungeon DLCs (which again are cool but are not equivalent with full zones) and then we had a whole quarter of content replaced by a DLC you have to buy separately (branded as "chapters"). So now we're at the point where our original four DLC zones a year has shrunk to one DLC zone and two dungeon packs. We need things to replace the lost promised content.

The craft bag is great, but that replaces, at best, a single DLC quarter. It shouldn't be treated differently from a DLC zone in terms of value since both provide continuous access to something good but get taken away once you unsubscribe. We would need new bonuses on a yearly basis just to make up for the lost quarter from "chapters", let alone the reduced overall value from the DLC we actually do get access to with them getting downgraded to dungeon DLC.

NordSwordnBoard

People who don't pay can't get 2 keys for that dungeon, or the helmets, skins, motifs etc. People who don't pay are at a disadvantage in more ways than one.

People who attempt vet dlc dungeons with no willingness to communicate or provide a semblance of a role they signed up for are a disadvantage to everybody.

Lastly, people who choose a random thing and are displeased when the result is random are only a disadvantage to themselves.

Shawn_PT

What if players with ESO+ but without the DLC dungeons had the option of manually locking/unlocking the desired dungeon DLC's? A way to opt out of the content if they really don't want it? Make it so that the DLCs get locked/unlocked upon subbing but then only be able to be unlocked/locked when the sub is renewed so that they can't turn it on for pledges and off for randoms. You either want to run them or you don't.

Some players want Plus to give access to DLC dungeons. Some don't. Having choices wouldn't be that bad a thing I think.

wolf486

Shawn_PT wrote: »

What if players with ESO+ but without the DLC dungeons had the option of manually locking/unlocking the desired dungeon DLC's? A way to opt out of the content if they really don't want it? Make it so that the DLCs get locked/unlocked upon subbing but then only be able to be unlocked/locked when the sub is renewed so that they can't turn it on for pledges and off for randoms. You either want to run them or you don't.

Some players want Plus to give access to DLC dungeons. Some don't. Having choices wouldn't be that bad a thing I think.

I know op didn't say it, but I *think* this is what he sort of wants. I'd love ESO+ giving the option to toggle DLC dungeons. But either way, for me crafting bag + crowns > dlc dungeons. I can live without doing randoms